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Poplo Furuya
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
Looking back it seems the number of blind optimists has decreased in the last month. That's kinda dispiriting, I guess their misguided faith was almost uplifting.
Though since I'm still here I guess that also makes me misguided. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
358
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:Looking back it seems the number of blind optimists has decreased in the last month. That's kinda dispiriting, I guess their misguided faith was almost uplifting.
Though since I'm still here I guess that also makes me misguided.
I remember only a month ago the blind optimists were telling me this is no the game for me. !0 years, not a CoD clone, RPG style Sp/level system is what makes an MMO or whatever.
Dust is down 4000 players since then despite good numbers of new players trying it. Looks like it is not the game for lots of people.
The OP's post is looking more and more like divine prescience. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
718
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Poplo Furuya wrote:Looking back it seems the number of blind optimists has decreased in the last month. That's kinda dispiriting, I guess their misguided faith was almost uplifting.
Though since I'm still here I guess that also makes me misguided. I remember only a month ago the blind optimists were telling me this is no the game for me. !0 years, not a CoD clone, RPG style Sp/level system is what makes an MMO or whatever. Dust is down 4000 players since then despite good numbers of new players trying it. Looks like it is not the game for lots of people. The OP's post is looking more and more like divine prescience.
Actually, the OP posts again now simply because in another 6 months he's going to look just as stupid as he did with the original post. There's a lot of work to be done on Dust, but it will be done.
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Poplo Furuya
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:hooc order wrote:Poplo Furuya wrote:Looking back it seems the number of blind optimists has decreased in the last month. That's kinda dispiriting, I guess their misguided faith was almost uplifting.
Though since I'm still here I guess that also makes me misguided. I remember only a month ago the blind optimists were telling me this is no the game for me. !0 years, not a CoD clone, RPG style Sp/level system is what makes an MMO or whatever. Dust is down 4000 players since then despite good numbers of new players trying it. Looks like it is not the game for lots of people. The OP's post is looking more and more like divine prescience. Actually, the OP posts again now simply because in another 6 months he's going to look just as stupid as he did with the original post. There's a lot of work to be done on Dust, but it will be done. God bless you, son, keep it up. Someone has to. |
ReGnYuM
Not another AR SCRUB
202
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Posted - 2013.06.16 02:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
MoeJoe you hit right on the nail.
How did the Fanbois reply
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
391
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Posted - 2013.06.16 03:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:The release was a bust because marketing trumped development.
Releasing on 5/14 *harharhar see what we did there* won out over making sure the game was at a stage where it wouldn't get mocked for basic game play and performance issues.
LO-F'N-L!
What marketing?!
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Kinky Burrito
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS
20
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Posted - 2013.06.16 03:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:hooc order wrote:Poplo Furuya wrote:Looking back it seems the number of blind optimists has decreased in the last month. That's kinda dispiriting, I guess their misguided faith was almost uplifting.
Though since I'm still here I guess that also makes me misguided. I remember only a month ago the blind optimists were telling me this is no the game for me. !0 years, not a CoD clone, RPG style Sp/level system is what makes an MMO or whatever. Dust is down 4000 players since then despite good numbers of new players trying it. Looks like it is not the game for lots of people. The OP's post is looking more and more like divine prescience. Actually, the OP posts again now simply because in another 6 months he's going to look just as stupid as he did with the original post. There's a lot of work to be done on Dust, but it will be done.
Exactly what will be done? They have a static 5 year development plan with a few guys working on bugs and tweaking mechanics. They are adding anti air tanks in the next update for god's sake. Do you think that is because they are badly needed, or because that's what they decided to add in this patch when they outlined the dev cycle 2 years ago? Do you think this will ever change? That's without mentioning the new drop suits that no one will use because cookie cutter calogi is still gonna be op. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
102
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Oh please, regale us with tales of your foresight and wisdom... we can't get enough! Sure loves to hear himself talk. I can't tell if you are referring to the OP or Crash. There was a beautiful shot at a double troll. Tragically lost.
Laheon wrote:K9 Wez wrote:You dont seem to realise how devoted ccp fans can be, if ccp were to sell toilet paper bpo for 50k aurum, it would hit top sellers in no time. See the monocle scandal. You know nothing (Jon Snow). That's going to be flying over allot of heads.
I'm a little surprised CCP hasn't pushed harder on the pay to win model here. Unlike Eve Online we can't all go to Jita and bring the server down in protest. |
JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
240
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Moejoe, you nailed it.
At this point the fanboys are in absolute denial. Good application of posts from over a year ago and it keeps getting more true everyday!
Well constructed post and argument |
da GAND
187.
10
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
got on a little more than an hour ago and only saw 3k or a bit more online, I heard the servers went down not too long ago but damn!! CCP not sure what your plan was but Dust might not make it to July |
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Syther Shadows
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
107
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
I have a secret tip
it makes dust 100% more fun
don't expect anything and just aim on going for that proto gear then going for LLAV and then TANKS then dropships
and you will never be disappointed in a couple of months |
Exergonic
TeamPlayers EoN.
67
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kinky Burrito wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:outside of the mega hits 9k is pretty large number for multiplayer. Outside of mega hit RETAIL games. This game is FREE, and not even 1% of PS3 users want to play it.
So much truth in this post it makes me sick >.<
Please get your **** together CCP
Back down to 4 to 6k people on now |
InsidiousN
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
88
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
The great thing about the OP is that it becomes more and more true everyday. You can remake the OP with earlier comments from people disagreeing with the OP, like comments on 5/18 talking about how DUST is still viable because its OVER 9000!!! |
KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
51
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
Lol @ the OP this game will never have large numbers. It will always have a niche crowd like EVE. CCP will get Dust right eventually. Until then play till you hit your cap. Passively skill your character, play other games, and come back to see if CCP is improving with updates.
Welcome to how CCP does things slow and steady. |
xjumpman23
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
343
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 09:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
moejoe won |
I VOTED FOR-KODOS
Absentee AFK Regiment
23
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Posted - 2013.06.16 09:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Oh please, regale us with tales of your foresight and wisdom... we can't get enough! its too bad i ended up eating all the cookies. other wise i would give him one. |
Atikali Havendoorr
HERBGROWERS
24
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Posted - 2013.06.16 10:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Interesting to see that comments posted in May just disqualifies the OP, and now then are giving him more cred.
If one now can't see that there actually is no secret masterplan, no ultimate build in the pipeline, then one is truly blind.
CCP have 4 major problems as I see it:
Corporate management: CCP have their own style of management. While generally, this is not a disadvantage per definition, in this case it is, because they cannot withdraw and overhaul a bad major decision, but instead lives with it, defends it and tries to fix it.
Since this is a key element of what makes CCP what they are, this is not gonna change. And should not.
I'm sure someone with deep knowledge of management can spin ahead and dig deeper in this area, and drop a few nice terms that explains all, but noone understands. So I'll let this be.
Lack of console experience They are used to PC. One can be quite sloppy on the code crunching and still get away fairly unnoticed. In addition, todays consoles lag far behind most PCs today, even the casual office computers, so you have to scale down things to make them fit. To make things look good, you have to count every byte of data. Optimization is crucial. The guys at Naughty dog haven't made the PS3 produce wonder overnight. The have worked hard with the machine as a software developer from the beginning, and really dug down in it. To go from the PC platform to the Playstation 3, without the slightest console experience, with it's Cell is like asking for problems. The Cell is very very complex. And this is just the technical aspect.
The audience and distribution environment are other challenges. Due to consoles having a fixed life span, development can't go on forever. After a while, the project must undergo a major overhaul if it is to be relevant, which means function on current platforms. One platform functions very differently compared to another. This is especially important when optimizing. This contrasts sharp to the PC, where technical transitions can be made smoothly and in small steps. The large raw calculation power compensates for all overhead. Therefore, at least theoretically, the MMO concept fits PC well because of its ongoing development nature, and not so well to the sharp release cycle edges of the console. This requires large burst efforts if a software is to last more than one generation, something that has never been done before.
The audience follows this sharp edge nature. If the player isn't given a fully functional experience from the start, it's discarded. Betas and half-finished products belong on the PC. The whole point of consoles is to give the players a very polished simple-handled and smooth experience in terms of product use. All parts needs to be there. The graphics, mechanics, balance, tutorial, game modes. Nothing missing and nothing redundant. Just a perfect little microverse. They buy consoles to get rid of the "hassle" with PCs. To get rid of betas and half-finished products and compatibility issues. True plug 'n' play. You don't wait for patches. That belongs to the PC.
Lack of FPS experience I have not as distinct points here as in the other areas. It's true that balancing out combat outfits and equipment that are player customizable, and even though they have done fairly well on this, they handle it very poorly, trying to copy the way from Eve online, which have completely different conditions. Eve is very strategic and about preparations, while Dust is about instant combat where micromovements and handling is crucial. Lag is a critical issue in Dust, while in Eve not so. The mechanics are incredibly sensitive, and is on a whole different level. Balancing is hard enough when all players are equal in speed/movements and hit points. To balance things with thousands of different equipment combinations is something that noone has ever done before. To do that when you have never even touched an FPS before is... just too much.
Chinese developers Okay, this one can be a bit fishy and questionable, some might call it racist. I don't know for how long their Chinese team have been around. My experience is that generally Chinese programmers are good at crunching out the bulk, but they lack the feeling and ability to make high quality products all the way out like we are used to.
I've heard small talks and comments about peeps from other studios have been recruited, with experience from some major FPS game, including some from Dice, but I can't say I've noticed much of that. Anyone know who they are?
With all that said, I'm still hoping CCP pull themselves together and make this thing flourish. They still have something... they "just" need to learn how to get that out.
Hm, maybe I should make a new thread instead. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
293
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 10:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
Far be it from me to agree with a corner camping aim-botter who runs with no medkit, but he's right on all counts. The devs, and this could just be marketing putting a good spin, but they seem most happy with the momentary emergence of a meta game developing behind PC but say little in the growing imbalances emerging on all fronts.
If sure they've seen such imbalances in Eve and sort of scoff at them here as momentary setbacks, but in Dust those gaping imbalances are actually overshadowed by how horribly the game controls at a fundamental level . |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
680
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 10:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
Atikali Havendoorr wrote:Chinese developers Okay, this one can be a bit fishy and questionable, some might call it racist. I don't know for how long their Chinese team have been around. My experience is that generally Chinese programmers are good at crunching out the bulk, but they lack the feeling and ability to make high quality products all the way out like we are used to. Whilst most of what you've said in the rest of your post is tenuous and debateable, I only want to focus on this part, which makes everything else you've said highly dubious. Do you know that the china office is full only of chinese devs? Well, it's not. CCP have devs from all over the world in all their offices.
Also, some might call your comment racist - that's because it is. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
680
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 10:25:00 -
[80] - Quote
It's funny to read this whole thread - there are a lot of good points on both sides of the debate but almost no one has mentioned the first point and title of the thread: the skill gap is certainly not the reason this game is not doing better than it is. That's just nonsense. |
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TERMINALANCE
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2013.06.16 11:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Atikali Havendoorr wrote:Chinese developers Okay, this one can be a bit fishy and questionable, some might call it racist. I don't know for how long their Chinese team have been around. My experience is that generally Chinese programmers are good at crunching out the bulk, but they lack the feeling and ability to make high quality products all the way out like we are used to. Whilst most of what you've said in the rest of your post is tenuous and debateable, I only want to focus on this part, which makes everything else you've said highly dubious. Do you know that the china office is full only of chinese devs? Well, it's not. CCP have devs from all over the world in all their offices. Also, some might call your comment racist - that's because it is.
Wrong
You ever heard the term "African time"? Have you done business anywhere but your one politically correct closet? Different cultures all over the world affect how business is done and how tasks are accomplished, in what manner and how effective overall that culture is at certain projects. Its called Organizational culture, and its a very large point of study with regards to effective business for multinational organizations. Building a plane in Russia is a lot different from building that same plane in Canada, the USA, North Africa, south Africa, Germany or Thailand. (not that im looking down on Russia)
All those countries have very different ways of approaching a task and organizing and implementing it. If you try to treat all those places as cookie cutters your gonna lose billions as many companies have when trying to from foreign business. And that's just production of product, not marketing or the product itself. You could talk away all education differances from those places and you would still have very different organizational cultures.
There is a reason the Germans are known throughout the world for high quality engineering. "German efficiency" and its associated technical skills have built a very results oriented business culture, with few cultural barriers that a lot of other countries weigh their business planing down with. Japan being a perfect example of extraneous amounts of "business tradition" can make deals take far longer and more complicated then the original task would entail (Depends on the industry).
This is worse in some sectors then others, You will find the more suited your task is to McDonalds style business efforts are the more easier it is to transfer to other countries, thats why fast food chain expansion ( has been easy for MacDonalds where more intangible building the proper culture that business requires to function is far harder in other sectors like think tanks and engineering.
Its a very important factor that cannot be overlooked, many companies have done this as they have little international business experience and it has cost them tons of cash as they basically bleed out their income.
Even if the office was full of Icelandic over time the distance and culture of the surrounding area would leak into the company just like how Americans did not identify themselves as British after being isolated from colonial power. People would take wives and husbands from the area, raise kids and eventually you would see "changes" not necessarily for worse or better but certainly changes in how that department would function as apposed to the people back in iceland. That can create developmental rifts and cause problems if someone is not watching out for them.
There are a lot more points and factors that I could go on about that create and or contribute to this but that's way above my internet pay grade.
Its also one of the reasons military's like to cycle guys through deployments even on peacetime operations, they want them to identify with their home country not the one they are deployed in. |
ALMIGHTY STATIUS
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Necrobump for the honor and glory of Moejoe. |
ALMIGHTY STATIUS
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:outside of the mega hits 9k is pretty large number for multiplayer.
You obviously have not played any other games besides mega-hits and dust. |
JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:37:00 -
[84] - Quote
ALMIGHTY STATIUS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:outside of the mega hits 9k is pretty large number for multiplayer. You obviously have not played any other games besides mega-hits and dust.
Pretty sure 9k population is at the level of "We are about to go out of business" |
Exergonic
TeamPlayers EoN.
69
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Posted - 2013.06.16 14:56:00 -
[85] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:It's funny to read this whole thread - there are a lot of good points on both sides of the debate but almost no one has mentioned the first point and title of the thread: the skill gap is certainly not the reason this game is not doing better than it is. That's just nonsense.
He makes a good point... Everyone wants to put their 2 cents in which caused us to move off the topic at hand in this thread |
ALMIGHTY STATIUS
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Exergonic wrote:Django Quik wrote:It's funny to read this whole thread - there are a lot of good points on both sides of the debate but almost no one has mentioned the first point and title of the thread: the skill gap is certainly not the reason this game is not doing better than it is. That's just nonsense. He makes a good point... Everyone wants to put their 2 cents in which caused us to move off the topic at hand in this thread
Sept the part where it is. |
ALMIGHTY STATIUS
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:ALMIGHTY STATIUS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:outside of the mega hits 9k is pretty large number for multiplayer. You obviously have not played any other games besides mega-hits and dust. Pretty sure 9k population is at the level of "We are about to go out of business" If everyone bought the elite pack @ $100 = $900,000. The team working on dust is at least 40 people large with varying pay grades, though maybe the chinese employed work for significantly less (just sayin). That gives an mean salary of 22,500 per employee. Some make more and some make less - the game is a losing battle at this point unless they do something drastic. Edit: forgot about overhead like the 8 chefs CCP has or material costs for computer software, renting the Unreal Engine, having an office building, elecricity, water, etc. By some rough estimations, this game is hemoraging money and sucking the life out of CCPs EVE wallet. How long will this game stay afloat? The money we are sinking into it now has the risk of never paying off because the game is about to shutoff in 1 year.
He makes a good point, shut it off now. |
Planetside2 SchitsonDust
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.06.16 16:50:00 -
[88] - Quote
Congrats you are a profit |
VEXation Gunn
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
280
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 16:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Planetside2 SchitsonDust wrote:Congrats you are a profit
this is pretty much what all non eve fanbois have said since last summer. |
DustisDoomed
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.06.16 17:40:00 -
[90] - Quote
This LINK has been edited by a moderator because it is in breach of the rules of conduct of this community.
Thanks guys |
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