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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Nothin
C C P
C C P Alliance
209
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR: The number of copies you will receive through salvage has been reduced and some items have been removed from the salvage table. Temporarily, while we make the system better.
We've modified the salvage table to give out a reduced number of copies per salvage drop. Instead of giving out 5 to 10 copies at a time, we will give out 1 to 3. WeGÇÖll be deploying the changes today.
Why, you might ask?
Reducing down on the number of copies we give out is a temporary measure. It aims to minimize risk to the economy while we work towards a salvage system that is better integrated with the economy as a whole. The first milestone on this path is to make the salvage system take items that players lose on the battlefield and hand out a portion of them as salvage (in other words, looting the field). While that work is happening, we wish to limit our future risk and tread carefully by limiting the number of items we are constantly seeding to the economy for free.
In addition to the reduced number copies per salvage, we have removed dropsuits and vehicles from salvage for the time being. If you have strong opinions that are backed with science on what you'd want to see in the loot tables, feel free to express them below.
You can peruse the revised salvage table here: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/64583/1/LootTable.csv
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jeanmiaou
What The French
CRONOS.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
No laser ???? |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
83
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm interested in how officer weapons will be entering the game, if players will only be looting weapons that were brought to the match, as officer weapons cannot be obtained any other way. |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control
Otherworld Empire Productions
397
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
So we will now get a lot of milita salvage awww  |
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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
515
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Nothin wrote:The first milestone on this path is to make the salvage system take items that players lose on the battlefield and hand out a portion of them as salvage (in other words, looting the field). While that work is happening, we wish to limit our future risk and tread carefully by limiting the number of items we are constantly seeding to the economy for free.
You are not seeding the economy for free. Somebody paid for those items in ISK or AUR (if you have AUR items in the loot tables). Each battle is an ISK/AUR sink, as long as you don't give out every single item back as loot - and that's how it is and should be.
The only truly free items would be if you have items that can be pulled from BPOs in the loot tables. Those probably aren't an issue, either, due to their low value and how little loot we get in the (current) implementation of looting. |
Arx Ardashir
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Nothin wrote:If you have strong opinions that are backed with science on what you'd want to see in the loot tables, feel free to express them below.
Made me do the lol.
Arramakaian Eka wrote:You are not seeding the economy for free. Somebody paid for those items in ISK or AUR...
In the new system, yes. But in the current system, it's just random assignment, and that's what he's talking about. That's why they reduced the number of copies given out while they're working on the rework, because at the moment it's all just random free items from the nether. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
516
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:You are not seeding the economy for free. Somebody paid for those items in ISK or AUR... In the new system, yes. But in the current system, it's just random assignment, and that's what he's talking about. That's why they reduced the number of copies given out while they're working on the rework, because at the moment it's all just random free items from the nether.
Yes, it is a random assignment, but it's still not free. It would only be free if no destruction of equipment happened at all in a map, and people would still get loot.
I guess it is possible that overall salvage is less than overall damage - eg. random Gunnlogi loots in a match where people were running militia fits -, but I bet those are very rare, especially with current very low loot levels. |
Herper Derp
DUST University
Ivy League
88
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Is there a reason why equipment (rep tools, nanohives etc.) isn't in that list?
I appreciate the argument that nanohives get used up, but then so do grenades, which are on the list. |
Guts7 Berserk
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
CRONOS.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Please add scramble rifle to the salvage.
The number of officer weapons its to low.
1 officer weapon x salvage its almost nothing.
3-5 its better and can't harm the economy in that number. A Drop from 10 to 1 its a kill to us who play after the weekly cap, and wait a little more reward to that. |
Ner'Zul Nexhawk
Seraphim Auxiliaries
CRONOS.
212
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's really great what CCP is doing with the Salvage system. But you know what would've been perfect? If the game would scan all the equipment, dropsuits, and weapons that a certain player used in the battle, and would give him salvage that corresponds with the used items.
Meaning, if I am a Logi with a Scrambler Rifle, in my salvage I should be getting Logistics dropsuits, SR's, and, in case equipment is given out too, Nanite Injectors, Repair Tools, and whatever else I've been using. If I'm a dropship pilot with a certain fitting, give me dropships along with items from that fitting, if there were any on the battlefield. Because, frankly, until we can sell our salvage, those Gastun Forge Guns and Thale Sniper Rifles are just going to catch dust in my Assets, not really helping the economy anyhow. |
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
62
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
As a pilot I would like to see vehicle items instead of stuff for Infantry that I will never use. |
Verdia DeMosays
Shooting Red Crosses
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ner'Zul Nexhawk wrote:It's really great what CCP is doing with the Salvage system. But you know what would've been perfect? If the game would scan all the equipment, dropsuits, and weapons that a certain player used in the battle, and would give him salvage that corresponds with the used items.
Meaning, if I am a Logi with a Scrambler Rifle, in my salvage I should be getting Logistics dropsuits, SR's, and, in case equipment is given out too, Nanite Injectors, Repair Tools, and whatever else I've been using. If I'm a dropship pilot with a certain fitting, give me dropships along with items from that fitting, if there were any on the battlefield. Because, frankly, until we can sell our salvage, those Gastun Forge Guns and Thale Sniper Rifles are just going to catch dust in my Assets, not really helping the economy anyhow.
Well put. I have played as a logistics for 6 months on this character, and gotten a usable logistics suit drop twice in that time. Yet when they did the market refund on the 6th, I received 17 million ISK from the salvage they reimbursed me for. From my view, tailoring the salvage to the player's favorite-of-match weapons and suits would do wonders for the game enjoyment, give incentive to win matches, and not unbalance the economy too terribly. After all, someone had to buy that VK.0 Logi I'm now wearing! |
Horse Schitt
Turalyon Plus
1
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
I can completely understand why you're doing this. What we got in salvage was more than ten times what we got for finishing a match. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hey guys there is an interview here where this guy gets to talk with the CCP economists [/url] (who also gave a presentation at Fanfest) about the path to building the economy of Eve and Dust together.
From what it looks like in the interview they have a few steps they would like to achieve in this chronological order (it wasn't an official statement so may not be 100% reliable)
Economic development:
1) Grow Dust 514 economic demand by scaling up participation and conflict. Measure conflict to understand consumer behavior.
2) Throw in Planetary Conquest with the new 'clone economy' to understand how players will utilize the passive income.
3) Continue linking Dust/Eve through indirect economic benefits.
4) Open up a taxable trade link between Eve and Dust through a Tobin Tax system.
5) Unlock/Open a player traded economy in Dust 514.
Goals:
a) Ensure a dynamic world where power cannot be heavily institutionalized and where disruption and renewal is always possible.
b) Build the tools for social relationships that drive economic organization
c) Incentivize the efficiency rewards that come from group vs. individual action
d) Sustain the meaning of loss by keeping income constrained
I was, up until this week, a little childish about my cries for getting player trading into the game as soon as possible. I thought it should come higher in priority than linking Dust and Eve together. Then, seeing what these economists had to say really made me realize that there was a lot that went on behind the scense that doesn't make the surface of what is going on completely clear.
It's clear from their first goal listed here that CCP needs to know how much players value the intagible commodity of 'power'. We needed at least one kind of thing like this to fight over. Pub matches are one thing, but they need to know how things interact based on our value of this asset (districts and clones).
The risk they are running is that they could make isk (or other assets) too easy to get for everyone, or too easy for individual groups of mercs that have monopolies on certain meta-strategies. At this point most of the community will not recognize any kind of gain while playing, and therefor will have no reason to play.
Loot tables
Loot tables are one of the ways that CCP can tune up or down the cost of battle. If 100% of what is on the field is salvaged after a map, then the game destroys nothing, then inflation is bound to go up. In Dust high inflation results in too many players in the highest gear not caring about what they lose, and therefore not fighting at the most creative and competitive level. If there is little randomness after battle in the rewards dropped, then players don't feel like there is change. This leads to a kind of least-common denominator gameplay where everyone ends up running generic fits in order to optimize the usefulness of the drops they get.
Once the Eve/Dust link is established this will be yet another area where inflation can happen and can crash the economy. CCP wants as many people to have a relationship where Eve can finance player action as possible, but if it was too wide then the differences between the advantage of the richest relationships and the poorest would diminish the value of both sets of relationships. What you are really creating is the need for people to go out and experiment to find the most cost effective ways to make isk. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
167
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
this is fine, but remember CCP you can give us incentives to leave instant battles with better salvage in Facwar and do the same with escalating salvage in PC as well. |
Soozu
5o1st
108
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Glad to see the Creo shotgun but I think I deserve an officer shotgun. More damage.. less CPu PG.. please and thank you. |
MASS DR1V3R
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
18
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
An officer Mass Driver please. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1425
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
That loot table seems kinda small. Too small and removing vehicles from it doesnt help neither. If we are supposed to be aible to loot the items from other player drops then you should allow EVERYTHING beeing aible to get onto the loot table. |
Yeeshak
What The French
CRONOS.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would like to see a salvage loot like Eve Online with a manufacturing system to make our own economy in game. It would be the best for the economy imo. |
J Falcs
Bojo's School of the Trades
37
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Posted - 2013.05.15 13:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
I guess I'll throw up my idea. This is not for seeding officer weapons. On that point, I have no clue.
1. Only the victor receives loot, the loser walks.
2. Straight isk payouts to both teams are 5-10% of the isk value (number will need to be adjusted as time progresses to prevent too much currency entering the market) of what was lost by the opposing team ("isk pool"). For an AUR item, find its stat-wise equivalent (or close to) isk counterpart and use that.
3. As in EVE, upon death, a person's items run a 50/50 chance of being destroyed or being saved. A team has a chance to "loot" their team mate's items which removes it completely from the opponent's loot table and isk pool. This means, it cannot be gained as salvage nor will it count towards the 10% isk pool. Likewise, an opponent can loot the items and add it to their loot table and 10% isk pool. If no looting occurs after x time, the downed person's items automatically enter the opponent's loot table and isk pool.
4. The isk pool is divided based on WP earned. So that, if a person has earned 10% of the total WP, he or she receives 10% of the isk pool.
5. Likewise, for loot, it is also divided based on WP earned. But it is chance based. So that a person that has earned 10% of the total WP will receive a 10% chance to loot each and every item.
6. At the end of the match, a player can decide to "sell" the items for 50% of their market worth. This will end once player trading and selling is introduced.
So, this rewards both victors and those that earn the most WP. It also removes items from the stream of commerce as well as isk. |
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
208
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Posted - 2013.05.15 13:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Well at least the table tells me why I've had 50 Thales as opposed to no Balak AR's and only 10 Krin's in a year of beta testing.
The very high end officer stuff should be much rarer than it is. Mercs clearly have too many of them if they're using them in pub matches (Thale users, I'm looking at you). |
LowKiii
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you take away the amount of salvage we get, then give us more of somthing else. For a game that boasts such freedom, there sure are alot of limits. |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
19
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Posted - 2013.05.15 18:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
LowKiii wrote:If you take away the amount of salvage we get, then give us more of somthing else. For a game that boasts such freedom, there sure are alot of limits.
CCP is limiting some of the loot TEMPORARILY to give you the chance to salvage actual weapons that your enemies used |
Raedon Vo-Graza
DUST CORE
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 18:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
i agree with many of these posters. there should be a system that scans our most used loadout in a given match, then if there is a salvage to take we get items based on our loadout usage. as a sniper, i have absolutely no use for all the HMGs, forge guns, mass drivers, and other equipment that are piling up in my assets, unless the market is going to open. |
Oso Peresoso
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeeshak wrote:I would like to see a salvage loot like Eve Online with a manufacturing system to make our own economy in game. It would be the best for the economy imo.
Something like:
Salvaged: 2X SOME-WEIRD-STUFF, 3X ANOTHER-WEIRD-STUFF
and with some BPCs/BPOs we can make them to sell them on the market for others players. The same system of Eve, yeah.
CCP has sent signals that all (or almost all) manufacturing will remain an eve activity, even for dust commodities. Any manufacturing within dust will be very limited in scope.
LowKiii wrote:If you take away the amount of salvage we get, then give us more of somthing else. For a game that boasts such freedom, there sure are alot of limits.
"I'm not getting enough stuff" has nothing to do with freedom/limits. |
Telleth
DUST University
Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2013.05.16 03:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have to second the request for some vehicle love in the loot. As a tanker, I have 100% SP in vehicle skills and 0% in dropsuits or weaponry. I can use precisely none of this loot, nor can I sell any of this. For me, or any dedicated vehicle pilot, the current and previous salvage systems have been entirely pointless. |
Watermelon Bandit
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
31
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Posted - 2013.05.16 08:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
As a Heavy, I'm not looking forward to all the TARs I will eventually be salvaging.
And please hook me up with some officer HMGs. I have barely any at 9 million sp. Got plenty of Thale's though. Yay. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
103
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Posted - 2013.05.20 10:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Nothin wrote:If you have strong opinions that are backed with science...
Since when has anything in Submarines Online ever been backed up by science???  |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
103
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Posted - 2013.05.20 10:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Well at least the table tells me why I've had 50 Thales as opposed to no Balak AR's and only 10 Krin's in a year of beta testing.
The very high end officer stuff should be much rarer than it is. Mercs clearly have too many of them if they're using them in pub matches (Thale users, I'm looking at you).
50? I only got my first 5 Thales in salvage just yesterday. CCP, Y U NO GIVE ME MOAR THALES!!!! |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1472
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Posted - 2013.05.20 11:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Nothin wrote: The first milestone on this path is to make the salvage system take items that players lose on the battlefield and hand out a portion of them as salvage (in other words, looting the field).
I know that this milestone will make a large part of the community very happy. |
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