He had a 9K or maybe a standard with damage mods. I had a 5K shield gunlogi. It was...perfect. he could deny my access to an area, but never solo me unless I let him. I could still slaughter his teammates if he let me, but squared off against eachother, I could usually kill him, but half the time he'd get a couple of shots off and push me to another front. It was perfect. Why? BC it was std gear vs std modules. Against proto or even advanced gear I would have been 2-shotted, but this was balanced. I kept my distance to avoid AV nades, but it wasn't the 400 m distance expected. Maybe 50-200m max.

This ultimately means that either we need prototype vehicles or they need to lose prototype AV. It isn't a call for a buff or a nerf, but to fight fire with an equivalent amount of water; usually its like a campfire being put out by 7 fire trucks.

How did you know what his AV build was?

You made a lot of money ........he made none.... I'm somehow failing to see how "perfect" it is ....

You made a lot of money ........he made none.... I'm somehow failing to see how "perfect" it is ....

Both role did their intended jobs, and nether one overpowered the other. In a fight like that skill and tactics would have been the deciding factor.

His fits cost a fraction of what mine cost. If I die once, I lose 1 mil. How is THAT balanced?

His fits cost a fraction of what mine cost. If I die once, I lose 1 mil. How is THAT balanced?

You said you could usually kill him so he didn't make anything back by denying you a position but lose out on ISK....

On the other hand you could kill him and his team which brings you in some money....

How is THAT balanced?

His fits cost a fraction of what mine cost. If I die once, I lose 1 mil. How is THAT balanced?

Fraction is not "cheap" His survivability is much lower than you because he doesn't just have to worry about you. His effectiveness verses infantry is lessened because he skilled to fight you . Therefore he tends to die ......alot . Even with price lowering in Uprising a AV Heavy can find himself deep in the red simply by doing his job . Yet he only gets paid IF he gets the killshot . Even if he does the most damage. No killshot No dough .

Sometimes you sacrifice your income and stats in a match to be a better use to your team. Preventing a tank from steamrolling your team, even if you never kill the tank, is effectively removing the tank from the field of battle, making it so your infantry can focus on the enemy infantry. That is a vital, yet thankless role that AV plays. Watching an AV guy go 2-5 yet watching the enemy tank only get at most 10 kills when you know they could have gotten 30-40 without your AV guy is a beautiful thing.

Sometimes you sacrifice your income and stats in a match to be a better use to your team. Preventing a tank from steamrolling your team, even if you never kill the tank, is effectively removing the tank from the field of battle, making it so your infantry can focus on the enemy infantry. That is a vital, yet thankless role that AV plays. Watching an AV guy go 2-5 yet watching the enemy tank only get at most 10 kills when you know they could have gotten 30-40 without your AV guy is a beautiful thing.

Sometimes you sacrifice your income and stats in a match to be a better use to your team. Preventing a tank from steamrolling your team, even if you never kill the tank, is effectively removing the tank from the field of battle, making it so your infantry can focus on the enemy infantry. That is a vital, yet thankless role that AV plays. Watching an AV guy go 2-5 yet watching the enemy tank only get at most 10 kills when you know they could have gotten 30-40 without your AV guy is a beautiful thing.

You made a lot of money ........he made none.... I'm somehow failing to see how "perfect" it is ....

It's beautiful right up until you hit the poor house . It's a basic fact of New Eden . If you are losing the ISK war , then you are losing the war period !

Sorry but no merc should be running a charity ..... that goes against the entire idea of being a merc !

The forge gunner did his job, he tried to kill the tank and when he couldnt kill it, he denied a large number of kills/land to move on to it. The forge gunner helped his team, whereas our tanker friend here was rendered less effective than he otherwise would if been and didn't help his team as much as he could off.0

Sometimes you sacrifice your income and stats in a match to be a better use to your team. Preventing a tank from steamrolling your team, even if you never kill the tank, is effectively removing the tank from the field of battle, making it so your infantry can focus on the enemy infantry. That is a vital, yet thankless role that AV plays. Watching an AV guy go 2-5 yet watching the enemy tank only get at most 10 kills when you know they could have gotten 30-40 without your AV guy is a beautiful thing.

I should be a able to kill a heavy faster then he kills me. In reality he has the element of surprise at all times Dropships you can easily tell when they are on the map heavies are not so easy. Forges are a little op but close to being in a good place.

Small vehicle turrets have been nerfed to hell. And need some buffing.

Please tell me that is a bad joke. I've been mowed down by Large Blasters many times while waiting for the charge timer on my assault forge. Tankers have no problem out DPSing me. Unless they are using Large Missiles, I still do not know if those have been un-nerfed yet. There was allot of fallout from the days when Missile Turrets were WIN. CCP should have just buffed Large Blasters rather than simultaneously nerfing all missiles last build.

I'm also thinking all turret skills are "must have skill 5s." For smalls if both the pilot and gunner don't both have enough stacking damage and a proto turret then their isn't any point even trying to get any kills.

Neither do logis. There's more to it than the isk payout.

I am not talking about large turrets. I am talking about small for dropships.



And trust me my gunner and me both have all small missile turrets maxed for max damage. still they underperform by a long shot . It should not take splash from 8+ missiles to kill a heavy. Direct hits should 1 shot most infantry besides the tankiest of the tankiest. 2-3 shot heavies.

The problem does not come from dropships not able to tank forge round really I think they are at a okay place there. Might need a HP buff because of the change in overall HP to a resist bonus.

We can not kill forgers effectively att all. Blasters to kill a forger you have to get within 30-40m and hold still for the 3 seconds it takes to melt a heavy problem is you can not hold still and every movement even on the come in throws the blasters aim off. so you are ending op taking 6 seconds plus. all that time plus the time on you moving in to get in range on a heavy your a easy target. Even if you get the drop on the heavy he just turns and his first shot makes it impossible hence fourth to hit him any more.

What about missile turrets. 8+ splash hits to kill a heavy. Again trying to keep a projectile close to the heavy is almost impossible all the time because any movement throws it off by a long shot. Me and my gunner with damage mods dropped on a heavy got 3 shots into him before he turned on us and shot and after that we where forced to run barely saving the dropship. 3+ direct hits it takes. Just wrong in all accounts that a vehicle mounted turret can have the drop hit every time and still lose to the heavy. Both of us on even ground he was proto we where proto. Splash should be taking 2-4 shots on a proto heavy depding on if you use damage mods. 1-3 direct hit. again depending on damage mods. Most infantry should die from 1-2 direc hits and 2-3 splash. Not 5+ splash hits and 2+ direct.

The problem comes that turrets are under powered.

I should be a able to kill a heavy faster then he kills me. In reality he has the element of surprise at all times Dropships you can easily tell when they are on the map heavies are not so easy. Forges are a little op but close to being in a good place.

Small vehicle turrets have been nerfed to hell. And need some buffing.