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NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
307
   |
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
DigiOps wrote:Phoenix Arakyd wrote:DigiOps wrote:Logistics shouldn't be able to take over the assault role in my opinion. You want to be tanky? Give up your light weapon and go back to support. Did you not read the thread? Giving up a light weapon wont fix the class. It wont even make it a support class. They need to remove the tank bonuses for logi suits and give them support bonuses. Period. Anything else wont fix it. What does the light weapon have to do with making it a viable support class? Riddle me that.
They aren't a support class, they're killers who can support.
Dust doesn't have any "support" classes, except dropship pilots, those dudes just suck A** |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
263
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
this plea falls on deaf ears. CCP is shown only to make HUGE pendulum like swings in balance. everything is either totally UP or so freakishly OP that it basically invalidates the game.(tanks, lasers, dropships, now caldari logis and tac rifles being massively OP)
lasers used to wing you and put a heavy in the grave. now I can simply rush them while tanking minimal damage in my scout suit from about 40 meters out.(poor bastard lost a viziam to some chump with standard knives.)
tanks used to be whoever calls their tank first has already won the game, now they get laughed at by scouts with hacked exo av nades.
dropships, 'nuff said.
Caldari Logi is a better assault than the rest of the assault class put together.
proto tac rifles can instantly drill through a target with little effort, has a better fire rate, range, and a scope. only thing the standard and breach have over it is ammo in clip. |
Phoenix Arakyd
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 04:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:this plea falls on deaf ears. CCP is shown only to make HUGE pendulum like swings in balance. everything is either totally UP or so freakishly OP that it basically invalidates the game.(tanks, lasers, dropships, now caldari logis and tac rifles being massively OP)
lasers used to wing you and put a heavy in the grave. now I can simply rush them while tanking minimal damage in my scout suit from about 40 meters out.(poor bastard lost a viziam to some chump with standard knives.)
tanks used to be whoever calls their tank first has already won the game, now they get laughed at by scouts with hacked exo av nades.
dropships, 'nuff said.
Caldari Logi is a better assault than the rest of the assault class put together.
proto tac rifles can instantly drill through a target with little effort, has a better fire rate, range, and a scope. only thing the standard and breach have over it is ammo in clip.
all of those will eventually get a fix. How soon is the question. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
Orion Empire
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 04:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Phoenix Arakyd wrote:Taking away the ability to use a light weapon would be a huge mistake, no one would run logi. They already sacrifice speed and a sidearm slot to carry extra gear, they just need to be brought in line to be less durable. The current Caldari logi is ridic OP due to its slot layout and bonuses. Requiring this suits only change to force sidearms only wouldnt stop super tankers, infact, they'd have even more cpu and pg to fit higher end mods.
You're only going to balance this by toning down the bonuses and removing some low slots, otherwise you risk damaging the Logi class all together.
Too many kneejerk nerf requests going around broke the HMG, tanks, and other crap for the beginning of this build.
Its the Caldari Logis who need a nerf, they sacrifice speed yes but for any other class to catch up to their insane defensive capabilities they need to sacrifice anywhere from -20% to -50% of the already pitiful 4.7 m/s speed. And I think the minmatar logi suit needs a buff they sacrifice a lot of defense just so they can carry a side arm which they probably wont use since they will be dead.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
Orion Empire
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 04:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Phoenix Arakyd wrote:DigiOps wrote:Phoenix Arakyd wrote:DigiOps wrote:Logistics shouldn't be able to take over the assault role in my opinion. You want to be tanky? Give up your light weapon and go back to support. Did you not read the thread? Giving up a light weapon wont fix the class. It wont even make it a support class. They need to remove the tank bonuses for logi suits and give them support bonuses. Period. Anything else wont fix it. What does the light weapon have to do with making it a viable support class? Riddle me that. In order to fit a light weapon you already have to give up tank, especially with the mass drive which is/or was the best logi support combo. The problem isnt they can carry light weapons, its that they can tank alot better than assault. Remove the tanking bonus (5% per level) and replace with with a support bonus. Keep the 1/hp passive rep.
I think Logis should just be allowed an SMG, side arm slot only, except the Minmatar logi. At least then they can keep their defensive capabilities and be good CQC fighters but not optimal at it. If you really want to keep your Light armor slot then they have to suffer on their survivability. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
League of Infamy
952
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 04:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:this plea falls on deaf ears. CCP is shown only to make HUGE pendulum like swings in balance. everything is either totally UP or so freakishly OP that it basically invalidates the game.(tanks, lasers, dropships, now caldari logis and tac rifles being massively OP)
lasers used to wing you and put a heavy in the grave. now I can simply rush them while tanking minimal damage in my scout suit from about 40 meters out.(poor bastard lost a viziam to some chump with standard knives.)
I've actually been able to do that since the LR hit the field, being quick and rushing them has always been a highly effective counter to the LR.
Having said that I'm not actually disputing the point that changes have been on the heavy handed side, I simply found this particular example ironic.
Back on topic
I'd like someone to provide a clear and through explanation of why the Assault should be "tanky" and how having a slower suit with a larger hitbox and lessor scan precision being able to (at the expense of additional SP/ISK invested) gain a higher eHP is a violation of role specialization or game balance.
What it sounds like so far is more that the racial bonuses provided to assaults are underwhelming to the general playerbase, that's not a cause to nerf anything that's cause to retool the underwhelming effects.
(Side note: the Cal Logi looks like it may out preform the other racial Logi suits which would be cause for a tone down on the Cal suit)
There's also the matter of the better shield recharge that the Assault gets, the ability to rabidly resort HP raises the eHP even if it doesn't raise the buffer (and it also costs nothing in either ISK or fittings, it's cost is fully SP).
So, open floor, make the case (with details rather than declarations please) as to why this is a problem, how that breaks proper Risk v Reward scaling and why the solution you'd propose is the appropriate remedy.
~Cross |
Dregarian
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
This is a great idea. Logi's are not supposed to be assault class suits. Its really that simple, everyone that would complain about that fact is just hard pressed to admit it because they put the SP into the suit when there was a clear balance issue that would be addressed in some way.
Add a second equip slot to assault and restrict logi's from light arms. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
816
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dregarian wrote:This is a great idea. Logi's are not supposed to be assault class suits. Its really that simple, everyone that would complain about that fact is just hard pressed to admit it because they put the SP into the suit when there was a clear balance issue that would be addressed in some way.
Add a second equip slot to assault and restrict logi's from light arms.
Tell me, why is the entire logistics class and not just the Caldari OP? Does the hacking bonus on my Winmatar suit threaten you that much? |
Tiberion Deci
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
153
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think they should balance the cpu/ pg (probably) by lowering it, but then give each suit a % bonus reduction to cpu/pg use for equipment only. Something like that at l east. Not sure how it would keep them from not equipping equipment and just using theirslots like now. But tthat's a starting point for my thoughts anyway. |
Sylvang ayanah
ZionTCD
Unclaimed.
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
logis have to be tanky to survive to support if played in such a way there is no clear cut "support" class anyone can carry equipment and be "support" except heavies of course. while i agree the caldari logi suit seems a little op right now because of the passive thats easily fixed by reducing the passive. i barely see heavies running around anymore maybe one or two in any match which is quite sad really for me as a support logi i dont have a meat shield to run around with anymore tack on to that the fact that logis are singled out with much prejudice now with their bright yellow colors the fact that we have to be tanky is even more important. frankly i think the suits should be very unbalanced with one another from different classes (assault, logi heavy scout etc.) to make them much more "specialized" each class should have a distinct overpowering advantage in one way or another over the other classes discovering those advantages is a hard thing though and will be complained about a lot. |
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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
820
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
I think we're going to have to face the facts. The "cryhards" are louder than us and their caps lock drowns out our logic. We're gonna get nerfed.
I just hope they let us keep the jar when we get neutered. |
lowratehitman
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Phoenix Arakyd wrote:Taking away the ability to use a light weapon would be a huge mistake, no one would run logi. They already sacrifice speed and a sidearm slot to carry extra gear, they just need to be brought in line to be less durable. The current Caldari logi is ridic OP due to its slot layout and bonuses. Requiring this suits only change to force sidearms only wouldnt stop super tankers, infact, they'd have even more cpu and pg to fit higher end mods.
You're only going to balance this by toning down the bonuses and removing some low slots, otherwise you risk damaging the Logi class all together.
Too many kneejerk nerf requests going around broke the HMG, tanks, and other crap for the beginning of this build.
Nope....no nerf at all...everbody has the option to get into any class. Any nerf and it is broken, buff the other classes. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Hopefully they let us respec when they nerf logis into useless packmules. So we all can spec into the goto class assault then. I just wonder who will repair and rezz then or provide ammo for fights.... |
Dregarian
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Dregarian wrote:This is a great idea. Logi's are not supposed to be assault class suits. Its really that simple, everyone that would complain about that fact is just hard pressed to admit it because they put the SP into the suit when there was a clear balance issue that would be addressed in some way.
Add a second equip slot to assault and restrict logi's from light arms. Tell me, why is the entire logistics class and not just the Caldari OP? Does the hacking bonus on my Winmatar suit threaten you that much?
The point is that assault suits need to be buff'd in some way without taking the tankability away from the Logi's. Give the assault suits a damage buff (per level) to make them a proper slayer class or add an additional high with an incremental inc to CPU and PG.
|
lowratehitman
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I think we're going to have to face the facts. The "cryhards" are louder than us and their caps lock drowns out our logic. We're gonna get nerfed. I just hope they let us keep the jar when we get neutered.
No..CCP is going to have to step up and remind everybody that every player can grind sp and that race spec is a reward for grinding. If anything buff the crappy suits. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
218
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Drop the CPU/PG on the logi suit and give a bonus to equipment that makes them only good for support. The assualt could run assault type gear and logi would have to carry equipment to be useful. They seem to be the cross of assault and heavy or just a unbreakable tank. |
Failonius
Quantum Degeneracy
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hey, isn't the Caldari the problem? Adjust it and be done with it. I run a Minmatar and it really doesn't feel like I am taking that much longer to die. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
820
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:Cosgar wrote:I think we're going to have to face the facts. The "cryhards" are louder than us and their caps lock drowns out our logic. We're gonna get nerfed. I just hope they let us keep the jar when we get neutered. No..CCP is going to have to step up and remind everybody that every player can grind sp and that race spec is a reward for grinding. If anything buff the crappy suits.
But that takes hard work like calculations and factoring in strengths, weaknesses, each race's battle philosophy applied to infantry combat...
They'll probably nerf em' all and let Altana sort them out. |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
142
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:Phoenix Arakyd wrote:gmann50 wrote:Is that all you girls can do is complain this is op this is op.Stop complaining and play the game bunch of 80year old women.
Logi has to have tank if everyone is going to run tac ar No. Logis need support bonuses. Exactly. Since everyone insists on nerfing the logi, the role bonus should be changed from 1 rep/sec (removing tank) to a decrease in equipment cost (pg/cpu,) then make the caldari bonus to shield recharge, gallente to armor rep, leave the amarr and mini bonus, and take away a bit of pg/cpu from all logi suits, bringing them more in line with assualts.
Logi when played as logi, do not have guns, they have equipment to use, and for times when they don't need to be repping, reviving or laying down hives or uplink, they can assist proper DPS suits with fire. Nerfing Logi pg/cpu limits equipment choices.
Dregarian wrote:This is a great idea. Logi's are not supposed to be assault class suits. Its really that simple, everyone that would complain about that fact is just hard pressed to admit it because they put the SP into the suit when there was a clear balance issue that would be addressed in some way.
Add a second equip slot to assault and restrict logi's from light arms.
adding another equip slot to assault suits is not ideal, it devalues the notion of running logi in all cases.
the one thing that is missing from this conversation is any talk about how SR with a +20% bonus to damage vs shields is going to affect the balance (or lack of) behind players using Caldari Logi for shield tank.
I suspect that the SR will certainly affect the play, and further that the inevitable TAC nerf should further break the current stalemate in fitting.
imho |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1373
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
At the moment, saying Logi arent the best suit to play assault is being very very very blind..
It was obvious before Fanfest with the bonuses from SIsi. Obvious at FanFest when playing it. Obvious in Uprising now on a daily basis.
I see here and there that logi have to be Tanky  I'm sorry but in my book, support units needs to be protected by frontline players so they can keep offering support and not be mow down. Otherwise, why would logistic suit have less base hp than assault and heavies ?
The question here is not about breaking Logi or buffing assault or else. It's about re-defining roles in general.
What is a logi and what should it be able to do ?
1) Carry lots of equipments ? Yes
2) Having a lot of PG\CPU to support those equipment ? Yes
3) Having less potential EHP than any other medium\large suit ? Yes
4) Being slower than an assault oriented suit ? Yes
5) Being the number one choice for any DPS player ? NO NO AND NO
So now, where does the problem come from with logis being so versatile ? Problem comes from number 2) and the fact that logistics have more Hi\Low Slots than any other suit. But what are those slots good for in a support role ? None as far as i know.
And any EVE player will tell you one more slot is pure happiness. No matter the base stats, proto logis having 8 hi\lo when assault have "only" 7 and definitely not enough PG\CPU to fit those decently (except if you have the amarr, with its 6 slots and MASSIVE CPU and PG) is just insane, and stupid.
If you take Cald\Gall assault compared to their logi version, you in fact have 2 more slots on the logi suits because you WILL use a PG or CPU extender on your assault suit. One could even say 3 with the built in armor rep that an assault will probably have to fit as well.
Some will say "buff assault". I would say a huge NO to that. For the sole reason that NO medium infantry should ever be able to reach 1000 HP. I've heard (and seen) logi running SHOTGUNS with 700 EHP and sprinting around 8.5/9 m/s. Armor Logis tapping almost 1K.
There's a point where you just need to open your eyes and admit that yeah, something is wrong. And at the moment, logis are very wrong. Actually, it isnt new as VK1 logistic was already a better assault than any assault suit in Chromosome (i should dig up those old messages of mine... )
So how to balance them ?
=> Sidearm only ? Dull idea. Very wrong.
=> Lowering PG\CPU ? Why ? Logistic pretty much implies having lots of ressources.
=> Changing the bonuses ? The +1 natural repair rate per level is actually a pretty good fit for logis. They repair people but nobody repairs them. They deserve that kind of love
=> Racial Bonuses ? Those given by LogiBro in its thread makes a lot more sense.
=> Less Hi\Lo slots ? That's what i believe in the most. If a proto assault has 7 mod slots and 1 eqpt. How can a logistic get 8 mod slots and 4 equipments ? Doesnt 5 makes more sense ?
In terms of slots that would make :
Assault : 7 Hi\Lo, 1 Light W , 1 side arm, 1 grenade, 1 eqpt = 11 slots
Logi : 5 Hi\Lo, 1 Light W, 4 eqpt, 1 grenade = 11/12 slots
That logi with 5 hi\low will still have plenty of room to tank and its massive CPU\PG will be used for eqpt. |
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Purona
Militaires Sans Jeux
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
i think people forgot what the point of an assault suit is assaults are not tanks they have a different playstyle than logis that suits them they have higher base stats and get more effectiveness any single module or percentage boost than a logi will get
assaults can enter and exit combat easily since they have the speed and base health to allow that they can hit an objective try to hack and if they get hit once they can cover a distance to safety with their speed and base health not an option for logis they are slow and would be forced to run slowly to safety
they have a side arm to switch to when they run out of ammo in their current clip and the enemy is low they can switch to a scrambler pistol and one head shot will finish them off or a spray from a sub machine gun logis do not have that option they would have to reload in this situation mean while any true assault suit would be shooting already with another weapon
the thing is you can tell some assault players dont do this because they want to take away the ability for logis to even have a main weapon
they dont even consider speed advantage and their ability to sprint over longer distance and recover stamina over a shorter period of time |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1373
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
Purona wrote:i think people forgot what the point of an assault suit is assaults are not tanks they have a different playstyle than logis that suits them they have higher base stats and get more effectiveness any single module or percentage boost than a logi will get
assaults can enter and exit combat easily since they have the speed and base health to allow that they can hit an objective try to hack and if they get hit once they can cover a distance to safety with their speed and base health not an option for logis they are slow and would be forced to run slowly to safety
they have a side arm to switch to when they run out of ammo in their current clip and the enemy is low they can switch to a scrambler pistol and one head shot will finish them off or a spray from a sub machine gun logis do not have that option they would have to reload in this situation mean while any true assault suit would be shooting already with another weapon
the thing is you can tell some assault players dont do this because they want to take away the ability for logis to even have a main weapon
they dont even consider speed advantage and their ability to sprint over longer distance and recover stamina over a shorter period of time
Everything you say would be true if assault could fit their suits as intended. Hint : they cant.
And if Logi couldnt compensate every base disadvantage they have. Hint : they can. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
simpliest way to "fix" the issues is to give logis low amount of slots and high amount of base HP => they would be durable but not able to fit too much tank or damage additionally.
assault would still be flexible in their fits thus the assault can still take 3 damage mods or 3 tank mods or a mix of both and come out on top over the logi. |
Purona
Militaires Sans Jeux
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Purona wrote:i think people forgot what the point of an assault suit is assaults are not tanks they have a different playstyle than logis that suits them they have higher base stats and get more effectiveness any single module or percentage boost than a logi will get
assaults can enter and exit combat easily since they have the speed and base health to allow that they can hit an objective try to hack and if they get hit once they can cover a distance to safety with their speed and base health not an option for logis they are slow and would be forced to run slowly to safety
they have a side arm to switch to when they run out of ammo in their current clip and the enemy is low they can switch to a scrambler pistol and one head shot will finish them off or a spray from a sub machine gun logis do not have that option they would have to reload in this situation mean while any true assault suit would be shooting already with another weapon
the thing is you can tell some assault players dont do this because they want to take away the ability for logis to even have a main weapon
they dont even consider speed advantage and their ability to sprint over longer distance and recover stamina over a shorter period of time Everything you say would be true if assault could fit their suits as intended. Hint : they cant. And if Logi couldnt compensate every base disadvantage they have. Hint : they can.
BUT THEY CANT become over all better than assaults its impossible
Base
assault with 210 armor and 120 shields = 330 EHP
logistics 180 armor and 90 shields = 270 EHP
25 percent armor efficiency
262 armor and 120 shields = 382 EHP
225 armor and 90 shields = 315 EHP
add any module you want and the assault will always pull ahead
want additional sprint speed assaults pull ahead of logis
want shields assaults pull ahead of logis
want stamina assaults pull ahead of logis
want armor assaults pull ahead of logis while maintaining higher movement speed
the only way a logi can become better than an assault is by focusing entirely all modules into one specific attribute and if a logi does that they deserve to have that advantage since they are losing out on everything else |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
League of Infamy
954
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 16:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:At the moment, saying Logi arent the best suit to play assault is being very very very blind..
It was obvious before Fanfest with the bonuses from SIsi. Obvious at FanFest when playing it. Obvious in Uprising now on a daily basis.
This may be accurate of the Caldari Logi under the current (not all weapons/changes in) status but I've yet to see anyone make a case for how that's true about the others (many statements than it is, but as yet in the ~5 threads I've read on the subject no supporting theory let alone numbers).
Quote:I see here and there that logi have to be Tanky I'm sorry but in my book, support units needs to be protected by frontline players so they can keep offering support and not be mow down. Otherwise, why would logistic suit have less base hp than assault and heavies ?
The ability to apply fittings to adapt to the rigors/constrains of the role is central to the Logi (just as versatility is central to the AR line).
Logi can fit a reasonable tank, at a higher per fittings ISK cost and with a heavy SP investment, they're supposed to be able to do this otherwise why would the logistics suit have more base CPU and PG than assault and heavies?
You mention that other classes should defend the Logi, I'd like you to describe how that can be done within the context of an active firefight. Please give 5 diverse examples which don't include either "while the Logi hides" or "while the Logi waits out of range".
Quote:
The question here is not about breaking Logi or buffing assault or else. It's about re-defining roles in general.
What is a logi and what should it be able to do ?
1) Carry lots of equipments ? Yes
2) Having a lot of PG\CPU to support those equipment ? Yes
3) Having less potential EHP than any other medium\large suit ? Yes
4) Being slower than an assault oriented suit ? Yes
5) Being the number one choice for any DPS player ? NO NO AND NO
I agree with all points on your list save #3, treating buffer tank as EHP (which is what this assessment does) is flawed to begin with but beyond that even if it were actually EHP that's still not survivability as it ignores both mobility and 'DPS tank'.
Quote:
So now, where does the problem come from with logis being so versatile ? Problem comes from number 2) and the fact that logistics have more Hi\Low Slots than any other suit. But what are those slots good for in a support role ? None as far as i know.
sic
If you take Cald\Gall assault compared to their logi version, you in fact have 2 more slots on the logi suits because you WILL use a PG or CPU extender on your assault suit. One could even say 3 with the built in armor rep that an assault will probably have to fit as well.
First support comes in many forms, if CCP were to further split the Logi suits so that each race had 2-3 more devoted to given roles then the slot layouts could be changed (along with the other stats) to accommodate that line of thinking. Failing that those slots are needed so the Logi can maintain some level of parity with the other classes on the field, a parity that is paid for in both SP and ISK as mods are being used to make up for base frame shortfalls.
Unless you run in squads with solid cohesion and a decent Logi, in which case there are totally viable builds (even without the broken TAR) which don't use the layouts you've described and can still top the leaderboard in both WP and Kills (I run with guys fit this way on an almost daily basis)
Quote:
Some will say "buff assault". I would say a huge NO to that. For the sole reason that NO medium infantry should ever be able to reach 1000 HP. I've heard (and seen) logi running SHOTGUNS with 700 EHP and sprinting around 8.5/9 m/s. Armor Logis tapping almost 1K.
Buff Assault is indeed the answer, but not their tank, they should have proper support for their slayer roles via gank. There are Assault fits right now which can push over that 700 hp and still move faster than my Logi fit which has lower HP than they do. Besides which the Advanced heavy frame gets ~800 hp before fittings and with the costs normalized via meta now that ISK savings is non-trivial.
sic
=> Less Hi\Lo slots ? That's what i believe in the most. If a proto assault has 7 mod slots and 1 eqpt. How can a logistic get 8 mod slots and 4 equipments ? Doesn't 5 makes more sense ?[/quote]
There's a point where you just need to open your eyes and admit that yeah, something is wrong. And at the moment, logis are very wrong. Actually, it isnt new as VK1 logistic was already a better assault than any assault suit in Chromosome (i should dig up those old messages of mine...)[/quote]
Define "better Assault" and why, there comes a time when you just have to provide a breakdown with fittings and context or your statements become hyperbole.
Logi v Assault slots gap by race (keeping in mind that sidearm is a slot)
- Caldari Logi has 1 more
- Amarr Logi has 0 more
- Minmatar Logi has 1 more
- Gallente Logi has 0 more
So far all the "Assault" Logi fits I've seen use only one Equipment filled with Hives and have no slack to speak of on CPU/PG so the Equp slots aren't playing a role when comparing the slayer values of the two frames.
While I don't think either your position or conclusions are correct I'm always open to new information and conversation so I hope you'll respond to the questions/content above and provide fits/details regarding your point of view.
A quick side note: I've no idea why the second Equp slot was removed from proto level Assault suits, aside from maybe CCPs numbers showing it was generally unused, but I'd readily support it's restoration.
Cheers,
Cross |
SmileB4Death
Seraphim Auxiliaries
CRONOS.
78
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 17:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sooo, if ALL logi's are op, why didn't anyone cry about it in Chromosome?..
All they have done is give bonuses..
Caldari logisault just needs it's racial bonus changed.
Caldari are specialised in what? Oh yeah.. Shields!
To be honest I'd rather they just swapped that Caldari assault & logi racial bonuses around.
Just remember, the guys screaming nerf. Just picture this scenario. Your in a really expensive suit,
You get downed. A logi comes running to rez you, but they notice the yellow knob. He rezzes you,
Takes the damage by meat shielding you. Sadly the bullets tear through him; as logibro's were nerfed.
Then you get smashed by rounds of bullets because you didn't have time to get to cover.
Just my 0.02 ISK'ies. |
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