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Gigatron Prime New Eden's Most Wanted Gentlemen's Agreement 14	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:35:00 - [1] - Quote I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I prefer it where it is, where you'll need to look for that guys who specced logi because your spec is different. Itll promote teamwork and much deeper gameplay between corp mates with "that one guy who's a logi" and "that one guy who drives tanks". It also gives yourself a meaningful identity within the game and your corp.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:36:00 - [2] - Quote Yeah... we call that fake longevity.
Gigatron Prime New Eden's Most Wanted Gentlemen's Agreement 14	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:36:00 - [3] - Quote I prefer the term meaningful identity
Delta 749 Maverick Security Consulting 27	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:36:00 - [4] - Quote I say get rid of the skill system completely Some skill systems work but the one we have now is broken, as for gear tweak the prices so people wont be rolling proto day one entirely
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 158	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:38:00 - [5] - Quote 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role.
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 158	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:39:00 - [6] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Yeah... we call that fake longevity. Exactly, want a long SP grind? Add lots of new content. You got a whole decade, I'm sure you can figure it out.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:40:00 - [7] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: I prefer the term meaningful identity Making all skills 100X won't make the game any better, sure, it makes decisions more "meaningful", but that isn't necessarily better.
Nstomper The Sangheli 396	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:42:00 - [8] - Quote Icy Xenosmilus wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Yeah... we call that fake longevity. Exactly, want a long SP grind? Add lots of new content. You got a whole decade, I'm sure you can figure it out. I Hope the cpm and ccp are discussing releasing smaller content build every 3-4 months so we can get all racial stuff , new maps , more game modes , new weapons , matchmaking , and a dust alliance maker ingame much faster than the 6-12 months
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 609	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:43:00 - [9] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I prefer it where it is, where you'll need to look for that guys who specced logi because your spec is different. Itll promote teamwork and much deeper gameplay between corp mates with "that one guy who's a logi" and "that one guy who drives tanks". It also gives yourself a meaningful identity within the game and your corp. I hope they don't lower it either, but the suits need an adjustment. 1.8 million just to get into the Chromosome version of a T-1 Logi is insane. Suits should have done dual prerequisites. 1lvl in basic suit frame unlocks level 1 in class frame 2 lvl in basic suit frame unlocks level 2 in class frame That way, you can use a basic suit and get a level unlocked in your class. Right now, unlocking a basic frame suit just to unlock an inferior standard class frame just for an extra racial bonus unless you're logistics is counterproductive. New players would never have a chance to get into the logi, assault, scout, or templar class and be bound to the basics for months.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:46:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I prefer it where it is, where you'll need to look for that guys who specced logi because your spec is different. Itll promote teamwork and much deeper gameplay between corp mates with "that one guy who's a logi" and "that one guy who drives tanks". It also gives yourself a meaningful identity within the game and your corp. I hope they don't lower it either, but the suits need an adjustment. 1.8 million just to get into the Chromosome version of a T-1 Logi is insane. Suits should have done dual prerequisites. 1lvl in basic suit frame unlocks level 1 in class frame 2 lvl in basic suit frame unlocks level 2 in class frame That way, you can use a basic suit and get a level unlocked in your class. Right now, unlocking a basic frame suit just to unlock an inferior standard class frame just for an extra racial bonus unless you're logistics is counterproductive. New players would never have a chance to get into the logi, assault, scout, or templar class and be bound to the basics for months. So you're saying a proto logi would require the basic skill to 5 *and* the racial skill to 5, while an ADV suit would only require that both those skills be at level 3? Listen to this guy CCP!

Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 231	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:58:00 - [11] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I prefer it where it is, where you'll need to look for that guys who specced logi because your spec is different. Itll promote teamwork and much deeper gameplay between corp mates with "that one guy who's a logi" and "that one guy who drives tanks". It also gives yourself a meaningful identity within the game and your corp. It takes 1.5 months WITH PASSIVE AND ACTIVE BOOSTERS statistically to spec into ONE racial dropsuit. Right now theres about two for each race. That comes out to 12 months just for medium frame dropsuits. This isn't including weapons, equipment or any core skills that would also take atleast a couple months to unlock. Increasing the SP cost was just silly. Last build i could work towards getting something from level 1 to 5 or if not 5 atleast to level 4 per week. This gave me something to work towards while also being able to see results happen in a reasonable amount of time. Not anymore, now it takes two weeks atleast....... Truthfully i would have rathered them create an SP sink Via adding new features rather then them just simply upping the costs across the board. :/
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 45	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:02:00 - [12] - Quote Will you quit if CCP does this? No Will i quit along wth 100 of thousands of players who when they first play the game quit if CCP doesn't fix the broken SP/levleing system? Yes Seems like a no brainer to me.
Gigatron Prime New Eden's Most Wanted Gentlemen's Agreement 15	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:05:00 - [13] - Quote You're assuming 100 thousand of others will quit with you.
Ziero01 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 12	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:08:00 - [14] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I hope they don't lower it either, but the suits need an adjustment. 1.8 million just to get into the Chromosome version of a T-1 Logi is insane. Suits should have done dual prerequisites. 1lvl in basic suit frame unlocks level 1 in class frame 2 lvl in basic suit frame unlocks level 2 in class frame That way, you can use a basic suit and get a level unlocked in your class. Right now, unlocking a basic frame suit just to unlock an inferior standard class frame just for an extra racial bonus unless you're logistics is counterproductive. New players would never have a chance to get into the logi, assault, scout, or templar class and be bound to the basics for months. I agree with this, especially since the stats of the suits aren't really any different and it's just the race/class bonuses that make the class suits worth using. It would also fix the issue of having to spend nearly 2 million SP to access the MAG suits so many people purchased as we'd be able to gain access to them quicker and cheaper while still keeping us out of incredibly powerful suits. You already have to get level V basic suits to work your way up to level V Class suits, but with this option if you only wanted a level 1 assault, you'd only need a level 1 basic suit.
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 159	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:38:00 - [15] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: You're assuming 100 thousand of others will quit with you. No, he's assuming 100000 will even download Dust again.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 45	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:41:00 - [16] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: You're assuming 100 thousand of others will quit with you. Only 5000 play it now....yet 1 million signed up. Pretty sure they already quit before me. I am talking about the next million....why would they stay when 100s of thousands already quit before the last update when the game play was better?
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 6	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:45:00 - [17] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I prefer it where it is, where you'll need to look for that guys who specced logi because your spec is different. Itll promote teamwork and much deeper gameplay between corp mates with "that one guy who's a logi" and "that one guy who drives tanks". It also gives yourself a meaningful identity within the game and your corp. Actually no there is no need to hold the hands of carebears CCP. Just do it already. These carebears just need to HTFU and learn to play not have in game "regulations" to teach them how to do it, good players know how to do it and dont look at pubs as the standard bearer for how to play the game.
DigiOps Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 206	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:47:00 - [18] - Quote I'm okay with what we have. I do agree with the increased SP requirements, but I didn't expect them to be so drastic. Yikes. The way I figure, It took me since January to get 9mil SP. My skill planner says I need about 18mil more... So, that's another eight months for a fully decked out prototype dropsuit to be used exclusively for PC or those "Now I'm really pissed" moments. That's quite a long time, but I'm okay with it considering how long I've been training some of my skills off world.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 615	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:06:00 - [19] - Quote Going with my suggestion, there needs to be a roll over on weekly SP... like since January. It's a matter of motivation. Right now it feels like the only reason I play is because I have to play to keep up with the cap each week. With my busy schedule, this forces me to binge play to get to that cap so I don't have to play the rest of the week. It feels like a chore and if I have to go out of town on business for a week, that's SP I don't get back. That's like playing Torchlight 2, taking a break for a week but capping out at level 65 instead of 100 because those experience points I would have gotten are gone forever. With a rollover, people can take much needed breaks from the game when they want without worrying about falling behind. As of right now, I feel like the game is playing me instead of me playing it.
Llan Heindell One-Armed Bandits 77	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:17:00 - [20] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Yeah... we call that fake longevity. Well, If they plan to implement more stuff, then its not "fake longevity". Even thou, I disagree with the 5x multiplier on CPU/PG core skills, I still think the rest is fine. They just need to add a huge amount of content to compensate and to give players a lot of things to do so they don't feel like they are doing the exact same thing and making battles to be a chore later on. The dev rate of a FPS title is different from one of a Space ship command title. FPS players are fast paced, they want new things to do, we want to fire new weapons, fight in new battlegrounds, face new threats. Anyways, I have faith in Dust and in CCP. This game will be huge. Llan Heindell.

BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:28:00 - [21] - Quote Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 144	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:32:00 - [22] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I prefer it where it is, where you'll need to look for that guys who specced logi because your spec is different. Itll promote teamwork and much deeper gameplay between corp mates with "that one guy who's a logi" and "that one guy who drives tanks". It also gives yourself a meaningful identity within the game and your corp. It also means that if you spec into something that sucks balls you're screwed. SP investments should be cheap but numerous. Instead of having one skill for rapid reload, have 5 but only offer 1% as a reward. This allows people to either be hugely different in one way or slightly different in various ways
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 617	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:34:00 - [23] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release. This is why this game needs higher SP costs for the sake of longevity. If you think our skill tree is bad, look at EVE. You have to spend a year and a half of skill training (all passive) to get into some of the endgame ships and fit them properly.
Protoman Is God Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:52:00 - [24] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release. The problem is we have people that feel as if progression is directly related to the longevity of the game. PC is what should drive the longevity of this game. We all know CCP has to make money, but increasing the cost of core skills and adding useless "specialized" drop suits was just a ridiculous. Having specialized suits does not equate to specialization. Specialization are the skills that the player invested into to maximize their desired play style. When players reach the 10m SP threshold they Plateau. Rather than growing taller players being to grow wider. They begin to focus on optimizing their drop suit, and making it perform in such a way that they are able to maximize the success at their desired play style. The changes in the skill tree have destroyed dropsuit optimization, and have once again forced people back into the rat race to grind endlessly for SP. I'll make it clear for all the neckbeards and EVE nerds grinding for SP doesn't help the longevity of the game. The faster more people have prototype gear the better this game will be. When I started playing this game over a year ago I wasn't looking to grind endlessly in order to ensure that I remain above or even keep up with the SP curve, but I was looking for battles that actually mattered. All the senseless grinding is actually a turn off, and in someways provides a barrier of entry for competitive FPS players looking to have good fights. The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP.
Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 119	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:59:00 - [25] - Quote I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this?
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 7	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:24:00 - [26] - Quote Rupture Reaperson wrote: I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this? Total posts 273 Likes 176 Threads started 29 Forum bans 2 The day you realized IMPS know what they are talking about......PRICELESS.
Protoman Is God Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:26:00 - [27] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this? Total posts 273 Likes 176 Threads started 29 Forum bans 2 The day you realized IMPS know what they are talking about......PRICELESS. You forgot to mention the DUST client ban.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 280	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:27:00 - [28] - Quote Llan Heindell wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Yeah... we call that fake longevity. Well, If they plan to implement more stuff, then its not "fake longevity". Even thou, I disagree with the 5x multiplier on CPU/PG core skills, I still think the rest is fine. They just need to add a huge amount of content to compensate and to give players a lot of things to do so they don't feel like they are doing the exact same thing and making battles to be a chore later on. The dev rate of a FPS title is different from one of a Space ship command title. FPS players are fast paced, they want new things to do, we want to fire new weapons, fight in new battlegrounds, face new threats. Anyways, I have faith in Dust and in CCP. This game will be huge. The SP cap also sucks. Increased SP requirements without a review on the current SP rewards is stupid. At least make so that we get a 1.5x SP on weekends, maybe? Or no Cap during weekends? :D Llan Heindell. That still depends on the rate at which you can unlock those things. Lets say it used to take 4 weeks to get 4 different proto weapons Then they change it so it takes 8 weeks Next month we get another 4 weapons that take another 8 months to proto If the first case was fake longevity, then so was the second one. Of course, since those weapons aren't unlocked from the beginning, and since CCP decides at which rate we can earn those weapons, it will always be fake longevity, the key is to find a rate that people are comfortable with. But simply increasing the cost of skills for no reason is a bad thing.
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 8	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:29:00 - [29] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this? Total posts 273 Likes 176 Threads started 29 Forum bans 2 The day you realized IMPS know what they are talking about......PRICELESS. You forgot to mention the DUST client ban. Fixed.
Protoman Is God Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:33:00 - [30] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this? Total posts 273 Likes 176 Threads started 29 Forum bans 2 Banned from dust client 1 The day you realized IMPS know what they are talking about......PRICELESS. Thats what I like to see.

Luke Vetri D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 84	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:42:00 - [31] - Quote So, re-spec on the 14th - Yes Reason: a lot of information was withheld, a lot of people got it wrong, a lot of people found that they were wel off the SP they needed to get back to where they where. Decrease the SP cost of things - No Reason: Most of what has been said above. So you can't get back to where you were, well tough, but now a least you know, and can make some educated decisions on what you are going to skill into first. Its all about specialization and decisions meaning something, whats the point of everyone being about to run around in any of the gear they choose. Would I like to? Sure, does it make sense in this type of game? Hell No!
Alina Heart DIOS EX. 116	Posted - 2013.05.10 06:45:00 - [32] - Quote BS, Versa-f#cking-Tality is detriment to true Longevity, SP Sink and Pointless Grinds are fast ways to get bored and drop the game quick!
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 620	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:00:00 - [33] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this? Total posts 273 Likes 176 Threads started 29 Forum bans 2 Banned from dust client 1 The day you realized IMPS know what they are talking about......PRICELESS. IMPS have always known what they were talking about like everyone else that doesn't rant and rave on here. Keyser Soze VerbalKint just makes them look bad with his incessant trolling, propaganda, and spam. What's the saying, one bad apple spoils the bunch?
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:29:00 - [34] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: BattleCry1791 wrote: Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release. The problem is we have people that feel as if progression is directly related to the longevity of the game. PC is what should drive the longevity of this game. We all know CCP has to make money, but increasing the cost of core skills and adding useless "specialized" drop suits was just a ridiculous. Having specialized suits does not equate to specialization. Specialization are the skills that the player invested into to maximize their desired play style. When players reach the 10m SP threshold they Plateau. Rather than growing taller players being to grow wider. They begin to focus on optimizing their drop suit, and making it perform in such a way that they are able to maximize the success at their desired play style. The changes in the skill tree have destroyed dropsuit optimization, and have once again forced people back into the rat race to grind endlessly for SP. I'll make it clear for all the neckbeards and EVE nerds grinding for SP doesn't help the longevity of the game. The faster more people have prototype gear the better this game will be. When I started playing this game over a year ago I wasn't looking to grind endlessly in order to ensure that I remain above or even keep up with the SP curve, but I was looking for battles that actually mattered. All the senseless grinding is actually a turn off, and in someways provides a barrier of entry for competitive FPS players looking to have good fights. The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP. CCP needs to make note of what's about to happen here. Because it has never happened before and it will likely never happen again. After a 3-4 year ongoing disagreement about everything MAG and DUST....Battlecry1791 and Jumpmanx23 finally agree on something. And I'll let CCP in on a little secret. Most of the guys I play with....we actually HATE this game. And if they don't hate it, they don't like it either. The reason we play it is because we can play it together, and we're hoping for an FPS experience unlike any other for PC. That and we hate BF and CoD MORE. That's why the MAG clans are here. We could be playing BF or CoD as our roots are in FPS. Instead we got EvE accounts two years ago and learned that game so we could play this one, in the hopes that finally, someone has merged an RPG/MMO with an FPS...giving us far more to work towards than any TDM ever could. You realized a year or so ago EvE was about spaceships, not 100 dollar monocles. Now you need to learn that DUST is about PC, not 100 AUR proto suits.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 622	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:35:00 - [35] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: BattleCry1791 wrote: Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release. The problem is we have people that feel as if progression is directly related to the longevity of the game. PC is what should drive the longevity of this game. We all know CCP has to make money, but increasing the cost of core skills and adding useless "specialized" drop suits was just a ridiculous. Having specialized suits does not equate to specialization. Specialization are the skills that the player invested into to maximize their desired play style. When players reach the 10m SP threshold they Plateau. Rather than growing taller players being to grow wider. They begin to focus on optimizing their drop suit, and making it perform in such a way that they are able to maximize the success at their desired play style. The changes in the skill tree have destroyed dropsuit optimization, and have once again forced people back into the rat race to grind endlessly for SP. I'll make it clear for all the neckbeards and EVE nerds grinding for SP doesn't help the longevity of the game. The faster more people have prototype gear the better this game will be. When I started playing this game over a year ago I wasn't looking to grind endlessly in order to ensure that I remain above or even keep up with the SP curve, but I was looking for battles that actually mattered. All the senseless grinding is actually a turn off, and in someways provides a barrier of entry for competitive FPS players looking to have good fights. The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP. CCP needs to make note of what's about to happen here. Because it has never happened before and it will likely never happen again. After a 3-4 year ongoing disagreement about everything MAG and DUST....Battlecry1791 and Jumpmanx23 finally agree on something. And I'll let CCP in on a little secret. Most of the guys I play with....we actually HATE this game. And if they don't hate it, they don't like it either. The reason we play it is because we can play it together, and we're hoping for an FPS experience unlike any other for PC. That and we hate BF and CoD MORE. That's why the MAG clans are here. We could be playing BF or CoD as our roots are in FPS. Instead we got EvE accounts two years ago and learned that game so we could play this one, in the hopes that finally, someone has merged an RPG/MMO with an FPS...giving us far more to work towards than any TDM ever could. You realized a year or so ago EvE was about spaceships, not 100 dollar monocles. Now you need to learn that DUST is about PC, not 100 AUR proto suits. Two questions: How do you feel about the current less strafe, more twitch direction they've gone in uprising? What if Dust's skill system was a copy/paste of EVE Online's training system?
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 26	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:41:00 - [36] - Quote Llan Heindell wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Yeah... we call that fake longevity. Well, If they plan to implement more stuff, then its not "fake longevity". Even thou, I disagree with the 5x multiplier on CPU/PG core skills, I still think the rest is fine. They just need to add a huge amount of content to compensate and to give players a lot of things to do so they don't feel like they are doing the exact same thing and making battles to be a chore later on. The dev rate of a FPS title is different from one of a Space ship command title. FPS players are fast paced, they want new things to do, we want to fire new weapons, fight in new battlegrounds, face new threats. Anyways, I have faith in Dust and in CCP. This game will be huge. The SP cap also sucks. Increased SP requirements without a review on the current SP rewards is stupid. At least make so that we get a 1.5x SP on weekends, maybe? Or no Cap during weekends? :D Llan Heindell. F ur weekend sp boost. We don't all share ur schedule.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:47:00 - [37] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Two questions: How do you feel about the current less strafe, more twitch direction they've gone in uprising? What if Dust's skill system was a copy/paste of EVE Online's training system? Well, less strafe is a loaded question, because right now you HAVE to strafe to kill someone up close because the aiming is just OFF. No really, it ain't twitch it's just straight broken. But to the overall subject, I've always been an ADS at short to medium and longer exchanges guy. I believe that unless the other guy gets a headshot (or three considering our shields), if you catch him flat footed and you don't suck you should be able to win by out shooting him, not out dancing him. I don't have an issue with the slower overall game speed. I like meat grinders and large groups of guys going at it. Makes stuff intense. And that's what this slower speed does for us combined with 6 man squads. There are some problems though, like the stamina....maps are freaking HUGE, we're moving slower, but the base stamina is still the same. That's just stupid. And things feel clunky, not just in terms of over all speed...but things like grenades tossing and weapon swapping. Also there's a massive delay in the time it takes to stop shooting before you can throw a grenade. As far as I'm concerned, those kind of things need to be "on demand", with no pausing, but it seems as they slowed down the overall speed, that it slowed down EVERYTHING. GG CCP. As to porting over the EvE skill system? Oh Hell no. CCP smartly realized what that wouldn't work in an FPS and hopefully they stay to that.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 623	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:59:00 - [38] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Two questions: How do you feel about the current less strafe, more twitch direction they've gone in uprising? What if Dust's skill system was a copy/paste of EVE Online's training system? Well, less strafe is a loaded question, because right now you HAVE to strafe to kill someone up close because the aiming is just OFF. No really, it ain't twitch it's just straight broken. But to the overall subject, I've always been an ADS at short to medium and longer exchanges guy. I believe that unless the other guy gets a headshot (or three considering our shields), if you catch him flat footed and you don't suck you should be able to win by out shooting him, not out dancing him. I don't have an issue with the slower overall game speed. I like meat grinders and large groups of guys going at it. Makes stuff intense. And that's what this slower speed does for us combined with 6 man squads. There are some problems though, like the stamina....maps are freaking HUGE, we're moving slower, but the base stamina is still the same. That's just stupid. And things feel clunky, not just in terms of over all speed...but things like grenades tossing and weapon swapping. Also there's a massive delay in the time it takes to stop shooting before you can throw a grenade. As far as I'm concerned, those kind of things need to be "on demand", with no pausing, but it seems as they slowed down the overall speed, that it slowed down EVERYTHING. GG CCP. As to porting over the EvE skill system? Oh Hell no. CCP smartly realized what that wouldn't work in an FPS and hopefully they stay to that. Sorry, I meant less twitch, more strafe.
Yeva Kalsani Reckoners 49	Posted - 2013.05.10 08:08:00 - [39] - Quote I don't think I would have stuck with this game if I had started out on Uprising. Having a couple million SP to start out with makes it bearable. I don't think I'm even gonna play alts at this rate. If they increase the amount of grinding even more for players to remain or let alone become relevant, I'm outta here. No joke. Grinding turns off a lot of players who aren't into the whole MMORPG thing. Don't kid yourself into thinking that everybody who plays DUST also plays those grind-y MMORPGs. A lot of people who play shooters and action games do not enjoy grinding. They are a different crowd from those who do. The developers need to make up their mind if they want the people who stick around for the grinding, or the people who stick around for the gameplay. At the current rate, you can't have both.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 850	Posted - 2013.05.10 08:08:00 - [40] - Quote OP -1 The lack of feeling of progress is a massive turnoff from playing this game. Any newbie who comes here is going to look at the SP system and turn right back around and walk away. there is no incentive to play DUST for a new player unless they have a massive hard-on to do things the hard way so badly that they have to do it the hardest way.

0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 347	Posted - 2013.05.10 08:45:00 - [41] - Quote To me it seems like CCP has two groups of developers or something, and they are both trying to do opposite things. One group at CCP decided to do a normal gear system. You skill into things to unlock the ability to use gear, and then you can choose how you want to fit it. There are advantages and disadvantages to most choices, and there are limiting factors like PG and CPU that force players choose what they would like to fit. The other group seems to want to do a MMO leveling system, like what is in World of Warcraft. You do stuff to gain XP/have it awarded to you for logging in once a year (passive sp). You spend your XP on skills to get better, and with each "level up" you get things like higher damage (proficiency skills) more HP (shield control/field mechanics) etc, etc. The difference is that Dust calls XP SP. With the MMO World of Warcraft (and possibly EVE?) leveling system, there's no way for CCP to balance anything, and should not even bother to try for more than the top tier. For some reason, CCP is trying to balance a weapon on a lvl 100 character to make it so that it is almost the same on a lvl 1 character. It's not going to happen. This game feels like a typical MMO grind, and that is because it is.
Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 119	Posted - 2013.05.10 08:47:00 - [42] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: I...I... holy ****.. I agree with the protoman... how on ninja-backflipping-monkeys we came to this? Total posts 273 Likes 176 Threads started 29 Forum bans 2 Banned from dust client 1 The day you realized IMPS know what they are talking about......PRICELESS. Welp I never questioned imps knowledge about the game, but I did always questioned jumpman's point of view so... yeah still shocked though.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 347	Posted - 2013.05.10 08:58:00 - [43] - Quote Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I say "NO" to only 5k players playing. Actually it went down to 3-4k now, right? Maybe they'll be able to get it back to 5k this weekend. Trying to do a MMO grinding system with a FPS game does not look like it can work. I do not understand why the game cannot have a FPS skill system, and still keep all of the MMO elements it already has while continuing to add more. It might be because I haven't played MMORPGs in years. I would like it if CCP just came out and said, "We're going MMORPG all the way with FPS elements" or "we want to make a game for FPS players while adding a lot of MMORPG in it". Sure, I hope that CCP will make it fun for console FPS gamers like myself, but ATM it looks like CCP does not want to go that way. If they are going for a MMORPG grind + lvl game, I'm sure many will like it, but it's not a game for me.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 347	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:06:00 - [44] - Quote and @ some of the other guys commenting, I have no idea why ppl say corps like PFBHz want to make it so that we control all proto gear and no once else can reach our level of gear. It's just the opposite. ATM with such a small player base and a huge level and gear gap it's going to take a long time to get new players to a point where they can play the game, and that's only if they stay. This is going to sound like a troll comment, but it's not. I have not seen any skilled players asking CCP to keep the XP lvl and gear high so it's hard for new players to get to the same level of play. There's maybe a thousand or couple hundred terrible players who got some XP, lvld up and got better gear so they can beat new players posting on forums. CCP said a large number of people downloaded the DUST 514 client. Why not ask the guys who deleted DUST 514 soon after about what CCP can do to make the game better?
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:09:00 - [45] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I say "NO" to only 5k players playing. Actually it went down to 3-4k now, right? Maybe they'll be able to get it back to 5k this weekend. Trying to do a MMO grinding system with a FPS game does not look like it can work. I do not understand why the game cannot have a FPS skill system, and still keep all of the MMO elements it already has while continuing to add more. It might be because I haven't played MMORPGs in years. I would like it if CCP just came out and said, "We're going MMORPG all the way with FPS elements" or "we want to make a game for FPS players while adding a lot of MMORPG in it". Sure, I hope that CCP will make it fun for console FPS gamers like myself, but ATM it looks like CCP does not want to go that way. If they are going for a MMORPG grind + lvl game, I'm sure many will like it, but it's not a game for me. This was a struggle a year ago the MMO vs FPS argument (though it's really an RPG vs FPS mentality, technically a game like BF3 is a MMO, as there are many players online, though it's not persistent). And it looks like it's still a struggle. Personally, I was looking forward to an FPS with a ton of MMO elements. No "classes", wide open skill tree, do what ya like. Instead I got an MMO with an FPS battle platform. If you think about it...it's not too far off.... Heavies are now "tanks" in RPG terms, low damage, high HP, Assaults are your DPS and your Logis work as healers and controllers. Honestly, DUST goes too far to the MMO/RPG model for my tastes. But it beats playing BF3 and PC is around the corner. So I'll continue to stick with it. Everyone needs to understand that, though. This is not an FPS. Not even close, because FPSs live and die with class balance. This game is DESIGNED to be imbalanced from the ground up.
Beheme Malivolk Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:16:00 - [46] - Quote Artificial Longevity or Meaningful Identity? Hahaha. Let me just say that my Meaningful Identity exists outside of a damned free-to-play game, and it's that Identity that isn't keen on burning much of his lifetime grinding Skill Points for Dust 514.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 347	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:29:00 - [47] - Quote Maybe PC and the Marketplace will provide some depth. There's not enough to take anyone in. There's over 16x more people on BF3 than are on Dust atm. You do not want to hear about the # of players in peak times for both. The difference is gameplay and a MMO grinding system. PC is needed. Marketplace would help too. Friend: It says F2P. Every P2W game also says F2P. Me: CCP said they'll put in a marketplace so you can buy everything with ISK too. Friend: And how long has CCP been saying that for? Me: ... years. Friend: They let you trade items at least? Me: No. Friend: lolololololololol
Amorale Lyadstafer Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:54:00 - [48] - Quote CCP pushed it way too far with SP grind in this build. Currently you need 4974720 SP for a proto suit, 4352880 SP for a core suit upgrades (shield,armor,pg,cpu) and 6840240 SP for a maxed out weapon(one weapon). For a new player it will take 7 months WITH the boosters. Even decent advanced suit fitted with decent weapon will take a long time for newcomers. I've played Planetside 2 from launch and there was a time when online dropped 10x time because forums were full of people complaining about a need to farm 80 hours for one weapon. Now go and try to tell them for farm several months. Additionally the skill scaling in Dust is terrible. For level one you need 2% of total SP, then 6% 14% 28% and 50% for the last level. In EVE it is 0.1% 0.45% 2.57% 14.55% 82.3% for skill's levels which lets you test new ships/equipment without investing ton of SP into something that might suck. I know the games are different, but it would be better to rescale skill levels differently imo.
Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 119	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:40:00 - [49] - Quote Just gonna say, several multipliers on this build are bat **** crazy.


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