DUST Search - Dont do it CCP!!

Protoman Is God wrote:

BattleCry1791 wrote:

Icy Xenosmilus wrote:

13 years to spec everything. No.

It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role.

There you go right there.

Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation.

Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT.

With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp.

The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x.

I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one.

It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release.

The problem is we have people that feel as if progression is directly related to the longevity of the game. PC is what should drive the longevity of this game. We all know CCP has to make money, but increasing the cost of core skills and adding useless "specialized" drop suits was just a ridiculous.

Having specialized suits does not equate to specialization. Specialization are the skills that the player invested into to maximize their desired play style. When players reach the 10m SP threshold they Plateau. Rather than growing taller players being to grow wider. They begin to focus on optimizing their drop suit, and making it perform in such a way that they are able to maximize the success at their desired play style.

The changes in the skill tree have destroyed dropsuit optimization, and have once again forced people back into the rat race to grind endlessly for SP.

I'll make it clear for all the neckbeards and EVE nerds grinding for SP doesn't help the longevity of the game. The faster more people have prototype gear the better this game will be. When I started playing this game over a year ago I wasn't looking to grind endlessly in order to ensure that I remain above or even keep up with the SP curve, but I was looking for battles that actually mattered. All the senseless grinding is actually a turn off, and in someways provides a barrier of entry for competitive FPS players looking to have good fights.

The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP.


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BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:28:00 - [1] - Quote Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:29:00 - [2] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: BattleCry1791 wrote: Icy Xenosmilus wrote: 13 years to spec everything. No. It's not about being specialized, it just gets extremely boring playing the same role for months. Lowering SP costs helps noobs and makes the game better for vets. The point isn't to grow tall forever, but to grow wider and expand your role. There you go right there. Previous to this build I had an alt with 4 mil sp...had complex everything, a laser, a tac sniper rifle, a duvolle, some grenades, a decent shotgun, and a Type A suit....it gave me options depending on my situation. Now I'm running a level III Caldari Medium with a Gek and some grenades....and that's IT. With the way this build is, in order to be effective in any role (and by effective I mean rolling proto and be completely decked out for CBs and PC) it's going to take in the neighborhood of 7-8 mill sp. The grind on the old build was bad. This is TERRIBAD. It's got a multiplier of 5x. I'm not saying bring back the old skill tree, but by all that's holy, eliminate the massive grind that is this new one. It amazes me how devs have a great idea at the beginning of a game's conception, but then destroy it right around release. The problem is we have people that feel as if progression is directly related to the longevity of the game. PC is what should drive the longevity of this game. We all know CCP has to make money, but increasing the cost of core skills and adding useless "specialized" drop suits was just a ridiculous. Having specialized suits does not equate to specialization. Specialization are the skills that the player invested into to maximize their desired play style. When players reach the 10m SP threshold they Plateau. Rather than growing taller players being to grow wider. They begin to focus on optimizing their drop suit, and making it perform in such a way that they are able to maximize the success at their desired play style. The changes in the skill tree have destroyed dropsuit optimization, and have once again forced people back into the rat race to grind endlessly for SP. I'll make it clear for all the neckbeards and EVE nerds grinding for SP doesn't help the longevity of the game. The faster more people have prototype gear the better this game will be. When I started playing this game over a year ago I wasn't looking to grind endlessly in order to ensure that I remain above or even keep up with the SP curve, but I was looking for battles that actually mattered. All the senseless grinding is actually a turn off, and in someways provides a barrier of entry for competitive FPS players looking to have good fights. The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP. CCP needs to make note of what's about to happen here. Because it has never happened before and it will likely never happen again. After a 3-4 year ongoing disagreement about everything MAG and DUST....Battlecry1791 and Jumpmanx23 finally agree on something. And I'll let CCP in on a little secret. Most of the guys I play with....we actually HATE this game. And if they don't hate it, they don't like it either. The reason we play it is because we can play it together, and we're hoping for an FPS experience unlike any other for PC. That and we hate BF and CoD MORE. That's why the MAG clans are here. We could be playing BF or CoD as our roots are in FPS. Instead we got EvE accounts two years ago and learned that game so we could play this one, in the hopes that finally, someone has merged an RPG/MMO with an FPS...giving us far more to work towards than any TDM ever could. You realized a year or so ago EvE was about spaceships, not 100 dollar monocles. Now you need to learn that DUST is about PC, not 100 AUR proto suits.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:47:00 - [3] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Two questions: How do you feel about the current less strafe, more twitch direction they've gone in uprising? What if Dust's skill system was a copy/paste of EVE Online's training system? Well, less strafe is a loaded question, because right now you HAVE to strafe to kill someone up close because the aiming is just OFF. No really, it ain't twitch it's just straight broken. But to the overall subject, I've always been an ADS at short to medium and longer exchanges guy. I believe that unless the other guy gets a headshot (or three considering our shields), if you catch him flat footed and you don't suck you should be able to win by out shooting him, not out dancing him. I don't have an issue with the slower overall game speed. I like meat grinders and large groups of guys going at it. Makes stuff intense. And that's what this slower speed does for us combined with 6 man squads. There are some problems though, like the stamina....maps are freaking HUGE, we're moving slower, but the base stamina is still the same. That's just stupid. And things feel clunky, not just in terms of over all speed...but things like grenades tossing and weapon swapping. Also there's a massive delay in the time it takes to stop shooting before you can throw a grenade. As far as I'm concerned, those kind of things need to be "on demand", with no pausing, but it seems as they slowed down the overall speed, that it slowed down EVERYTHING. GG CCP. As to porting over the EvE skill system? Oh Hell no. CCP smartly realized what that wouldn't work in an FPS and hopefully they stay to that.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 238	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:09:00 - [4] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Gigatron Prime wrote: I heard that CCP is possibly lowering the SP for skill chains... I say NO!! The fact that it takes more SP now to do things means we need to specialize in areas and learn to focus what we want rather than have our skills all willy nilly over the place and be a heavy one minute and a scout the next. I say "NO" to only 5k players playing. Actually it went down to 3-4k now, right? Maybe they'll be able to get it back to 5k this weekend. Trying to do a MMO grinding system with a FPS game does not look like it can work. I do not understand why the game cannot have a FPS skill system, and still keep all of the MMO elements it already has while continuing to add more. It might be because I haven't played MMORPGs in years. I would like it if CCP just came out and said, "We're going MMORPG all the way with FPS elements" or "we want to make a game for FPS players while adding a lot of MMORPG in it". Sure, I hope that CCP will make it fun for console FPS gamers like myself, but ATM it looks like CCP does not want to go that way. If they are going for a MMORPG grind + lvl game, I'm sure many will like it, but it's not a game for me. This was a struggle a year ago the MMO vs FPS argument (though it's really an RPG vs FPS mentality, technically a game like BF3 is a MMO, as there are many players online, though it's not persistent). And it looks like it's still a struggle. Personally, I was looking forward to an FPS with a ton of MMO elements. No "classes", wide open skill tree, do what ya like. Instead I got an MMO with an FPS battle platform. If you think about it...it's not too far off.... Heavies are now "tanks" in RPG terms, low damage, high HP, Assaults are your DPS and your Logis work as healers and controllers. Honestly, DUST goes too far to the MMO/RPG model for my tastes. But it beats playing BF3 and PC is around the corner. So I'll continue to stick with it. Everyone needs to understand that, though. This is not an FPS. Not even close, because FPSs live and die with class balance. This game is DESIGNED to be imbalanced from the ground up.