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Snagman 313
Carbon 7
65
   |
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
As many of you may have seen in previous posts I've been keeping a sort of diary on my experiences as a heavy in the current build and my thoughts about tactics, fittings and other stuff for anyone who's interested.
To be honest not much has changed for me today I still go positive in about 1/3 of matches, a 1/3 1 for 1 and the last 1/3 well negative.
Most of this revolves around the terrain, gametype and who I'm up against.
I did well in skirmishes where there was close range fast paced action where I could relocate and push through the flank of the enemy while my corp mates held them up, which is strange as really I should be doing the holding up but again bullet spread and lack of range hindered me from causing any real damage against an enemy in cover. Also having the objectives helped immensely since I could anticipate which direction the enemy would come from and where I should position myself.
Matches in which I went 1 for 1 were usually slightly more open maps mostly the AMB OMS ones where my mobility left me open to being flanked and out ranged. To combat this I acted as close protection for the squad so as soon as the enemy tried to engage up close I would push forward and allow my squad a few seconds to fall back where I could usually take one enemy with me before death. However unless there was a team member with a drop uplink I often found myself with a long hike back to the squad by which time I would have been engaged.
The matches I really struggled on where actually basic close range ambushes with 1 or more enemy corp squads running proto assault gear. I just can't keep up, in these matches the team has to stay mobile to avoid being pinned down but the heavy is just too slow in it's current form. And on top of that even if I was getting the combat situation in my favour with terrain and support from my squad I simply couldn't do enough damage fast enough at close range to the AR guys. Now hats off to them their system works well as they usually quickly move in close and begin circling me while their buddy begins to fall back and fire while I try to target the closest man. I usually die in 3-4 seconds depending on their weaponry.
So basically I've found playing the Heavy class in Skirmish is about the best way to go for myself as it gives me some ability to use tactics rather than just run and gun with the pack in AMB and you also have a chance to change out your gear more ofter in skirmish which helps the heavies other role of AV.
Now I'm still having great fun with the heavy in it's AV role as I can get really stuck in to a tank now having the HP buff. Anyone who knows me will let you know I like to be REALLY close to a tank when fighting it, which the basic heavy proto suit fills out almost perfectly for my play style.
However for the rest of the time I am starting to run my assault suit with AR and then either switching out at a supply depot close to the objective to my heavy suit. I tried using LAVs to get to the objectives but they're to easy for people to kill and take me plus two buddies out of the game. I'm getting there slowly but it's taking me some time.
Regards
Snag |
Talryn Vilneram
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good well written and laid out post. Good information. +1 |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
246
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good post. I also saw you in a match today - that would be one where you went positive. |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have mixed feelings about this post.
On one hand - you thought it out well enough and explained in good detail your situations.
On the other hand... you go negative 1/3 your games, and get a 1 KDR another 1/3...
|
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
SoTa of PoP wrote:I have mixed feelings about this post.
On one hand - you thought it out well enough and explained in good detail your situations.
On the other hand... you go negative 1/3 your games, and get a 1 KDR another 1/3...
Not too sure how I else I could explain it bud, but any advice will be well received I'm still new at trying to do these write ups.
I didn't really do much reporting before, only with the Heavy nerf did I feel I had to start writing to show how situational the current suit is with the HMG. As I've found it it's really only good in skirmishes that have enclosed objectives that you can move into and camp out which nets you a grand total of sod all WP and ISK most of the time.
So basically it means you need to spec into another suit and loadout for most other matches and situations, which is fine if adds variety to the game HOWEVER no other suits need to do this as there are different weapons and different suits for the other classes which can do everything from point defence to high speed assault to long range support to sniping and even AV. I don't mean to moan but we got told we're point defence (which is debatable as most people just run through my hail of bullets) and can go AV 
When the new suits appear, hopefully with a couple of new weapons with a longer range than my throwing arm. We should be able to play as dedicated heavies again giving us our flexibility back.
Sorry rant over guys,
Snag |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:SoTa of PoP wrote:I have mixed feelings about this post.
On one hand - you thought it out well enough and explained in good detail your situations.
On the other hand... you go negative 1/3 your games, and get a 1 KDR another 1/3...
Not too sure how I else I could explain it bud, but any advice will be well received I'm still new at trying to do these write ups. I didn't really do much reporting before, only with the Heavy nerf did I feel I had to start writing to show how situational the current suit is with the HMG. As I've found it it's really only good in skirmishes that have enclosed objectives that you can move into and camp out which nets you a grand total of sod all WP and ISK most of the time. So basically it means you need to spec into another suit and loadout for most other matches and situations, which is fine if adds variety to the game HOWEVER no other suits need to do this as there are different weapons and different suits for the other classes which can do everything from point defence to high speed assault to long range support to sniping and even AV. I don't mean to moan but we got told we're point defence (which is debatable as most people just run through my hail of bullets) and can go AV When the new suits appear, hopefully with a couple of new weapons with a longer range than my throwing arm. We should be able to play as dedicated heavies again giving us our flexibility back. Sorry rant over guys, Snag
You seem to understand the heavy plight well. Hopefully CCP reads this. |
Talruum Tezztarozza
Seraphim Auxiliaries
CRONOS.
93
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nice post man. Also I would love it if you include a link to your previous post. I would like to read them as well. |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Talruum Tezztarozza wrote:Nice post man. Also I would love it if you include a link to your previous post. I would like to read them as well.
NP bud just give me a minute to go find them, they were tagged onto Zion Shads thread for info to give CCP Frame.
Snag |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok here's what I wrote after the first day of uprising.
Morning lads,
I decided to sleep before writing up a review on the Heavy and HMG just so as I didn't end up on a rant. So I'll try and view this as objectively as I can even though I've been on the wrong end of the nerf hammer since replication.
Ok first up the HMG, now we have had our damage cut but 2 points across the range on HMGs so a standard now does 14 adv does 15 and proto does 15.6 so a 12.5% damage reduction which is certainly not minor although it is possible to buff it back up to old damage levels but requires you to sink a lot of SP in HMG proficiency and get a damage mod onboard.
Moving onto the range reduction, now with all weapons having sharpshooter removed I think all weapons are on a level playing field and was a good move by CCP so as to allow new players a chance in game who don't have the sharpshooter skill levelled up yet. However the range nerf that was applied to it has hindered the HMG quite a bit, now it's not completely dead as some may say but it now means that you need to be very close to use it effectively. I can't give you exact numbers on range but I did manage one kill with it at 33 meters but it took about 100 rounds and the target had less than a 1/4 armour (I believe this is more about the bullet spread at range but is compounded by the damage reduction) but most of my kills where inside 10 meters which is what I would say is now the optimal range as even firing over a standard width road at a target generally just draws more fire onto yourself.
Death mode, currently this is really only good if the enemy isn't moving much since you need to get close in the first place and even a short movement can throw you off. Also the speed at which you can track a target seems to have been reduced, I couldn't even keep up with a target running normally at close range so don't know what's going on there as I didn't get a chance to discuss this with anyone last night. The new animation to get into view is longer so I really stopped using it in most situations that I found myself in. I used to use this mode a lot especially when I used to put up a beating zone for my squad (when we had sharpshooter you see) and it did work quite well in the last build as I could generally hold 2-3 redberries in cover if I did my bit.
Ok now I found the heavy last night to be quite a different animal from before and not totally broken either but it took a lot of work on my part and a reassignment of some of my skill points. I did quite well by staying close to my squad and making sure they didn't leave an area without me I also found the new spawn system was quite good at allowing me to drop in on objectives that where about to be taken, now this was where I really did quite well last night up close with lot's of cover and only fleeting shots. The HP buff did seem to help as well and I did notice a bigger difference in damage received from different weapon types, certainly lasers ate my shields but choked on my armour and I found against the Gallente assault suits once through their lighter shields I took them apart with the HMG whereas Shield types caused me a lot of grief. So not too bad as I kept my KDR positive all last night somehow even against a full team of Betamax.
Now here's how I see the current situation, with regards to the HMG I think it will have to be buffed in the short run as new players will have a very bad time with it in it's current form, I managed with it but I have been playing since last June.
However I believe it was nerfed to make room for upcoming gear (convoluted but I'll get to that) which is all well and good but the heavy class has no new gear coming for a while and leaves it open to getting stomped into the ground.
Now looking at the gear we have now 1 raicial type heavy suit and 2 heavy weapons, one which is a hybrid damage type AV and the other a conventional damage type AP. If we also had a hybrid weapon for anti personnel use with medium range (as the Assault guys have the AR kinda thing) then a heavy could put up a beating zone and allow the assault guys to move up and take out the enemy and then it would balance out with having the option to switch to the HMG for close up work and holding choke points. But we don't we only have one weapon to try and do both these roles which might not be what the grand plan for the heavy is but since we can't run and gun with the rest of the guys we should be able to provide some form of cover fire whether or not there's a long range support weapon coming up. I didn't get a chance to look at the Assault version of the HMG last night but I doubt it'll have anywhere near the damage or accuracy required to make people get into cover. The only route to go for such a thing right now is to spec into light weapons such as AR, LR, MD or the upcoming Scrambler rifle and Plasma cannon but you would do a lot better to use an assault suit with these weapons as you're more mobile and you can equip more damage mods (even with the penalty) and carry a nanohive for ammo neither of which a heavy can do as we now have a max of 2 high slots on the basic suit and only 1 on the sentinel type with no equipment slots. So unless the new weapons and suits are coming soon I'm afraid with this HMG nerf the HMG heavy will not die but become a one trick pony.
Also the Sentinel suits bonus that reduces feedback damage is pretty pointless right now, as unless the damage from a laser rifle overheat (50 hp) has be increased hugely a possible reduction of I think it was 25% means sod all to a heavy with over 1k hitpoints. If they bring out a Scrambler/Laser/Arc cannon that does over 250 hp when it overheats then yeah but currently no.
On a lighter note the FG heavy is alive and well quite capable of killing tanks which is most likely what I'll be using the heavy for from now on.
Regards
Snagman |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Here's what I wrote on day 2:
Ok for some reason my playstation network account has signed out and won't sign back in but it does give me some time to do a quick write up on day two a heavy in Uprising.
Well it's been a bit hit and miss.... literally. I managed roughly 10 or 12 matches tonight and I went positive kdr in 3, 1 for 1 in 4 and the rest mega negative.
So I took my own advice from last time and tried to control the ground I was fighting in by keeping to close range and using cover to my advantage now this worked when I had others to help keep fire off me, even just one other guy backing me up or me backing them up. However in most cases I was the preferred target and even with my uprated armour and shields I can't compete with more than one opponent regardless of my gear level I have tried STD,ADV and Proto admittedly the Proto does last a bit longer. The only solace I could take in this was that it takes two clones worth of damage to take me down and allowed my team mates time to take down the enemy but I don't get anything for dying and started to look for other avenues to allow me to fight more effectively.
I figured my main problem was not so much the lack of range but that as soon as I was in range I had to get closer again so I could do my maximum damage because of the damage drop off (that was compounded by the damage reduction) and bullet spread. I found I could always get close enough to make my rounds contact the enemy but at max range I may as well be using foul language (sorry CCP but I call em how I see em). So I slapped on and extra complex damage mod which did help a bit but not much in the grand scheme of things considering how many bullets miss at max range.
So I figured I would test it up close and see what's changed compared to last build since my damage should at least be comparable if not my range. Well with such a setup you can still hold choke points very well but you need to max out your damage however whatever has been done to the strafe speed has severely restricted my ability to shoot accurately on the fly and it's hard to keep up with faster moving assault suits which dodge around a lot.
Basically what I have found is that the Heavy HMG is no longer a shock trooper that smashes into the front of the enemy taking as many with you as possible. In my view you are now the guy who digs into and area with a couple of mates and as the enemy pushes into your area you pop in and out of cover knocking them back while the other lads out maneuver the enemy and take them down. So you are the Wall with this current loadout in the Amarr suit using the HMG something you bring in to hold an objective after you've captured it with a faster more maneuverable suit IMHO.
Now this will likely change when the racial suits come in as the Caldari and Minmatar suits will probably have a few more high slots for damage mods and move quicker so you can close the distance and keep pace with the assault suits, whereas the Gallente suit will be fairly epic.
However I have invested a lot of SP into the HMG and Basic Amarr heavy and while I can still use the Amarr heavy (which is good but not the racial suit I would like much like a lot of the other heavies) I can equip it with things like the AR and other light weapons to keep competitive but I feel compared to other weapons the HMG is becoming relegated to the back of the sock drawer.
The setup still works but I would advise Heavies to invest into another class for flexibility.
Regards
Snag |
|
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Snagman 313
Carbon 7
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 07:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
And here's a little something I wrote up on the morning of day 3 about day 2:
Morning Mercs,
Ok I forgot to mention one thing in my post last night.
Assault HMG (for anyone who doesn't know it's a version which has extended range but lower damage)
Ok so like my above post states I figured if I could engage targets a bit further out I might stand a bit of a better chance since I could deal some damage without having to rub shoulders with my target to get maximum damage and bullet hits. So obviously I looked to the Assault HMG for a helping hand...... Wow did I get that one wrong!!!
I quickly made a basic STD setup and dropped into a quick pub match. I won't disclose my kdr as I think I may have been scarred for life after that match..... But anyway my basic heavy suit has 500 ish shield and just over 600 armour so 1100 Ehp for arguments sake. And I lost every gun fight versus I think every weapon type, I lost to a wide range of AR's and lasers ate me up at range regardless of my armour. After quite a few deaths I ran for cover and tried to use more normal tactics while having my extended range, I managed one kill and was quite chuffed as it looked like I had killed the target at about 45 meters but then it turned out they were also taking fire from my squad mate with his Duvolle *sob sob*. So I set about looking for more targets to test this whole thing out, well I suffered a truly epic fail and died to a scout with an SMG twice (Hat's off to whoever you are) as soon as I hit his/her shields they jumped forward out of my firing arc and by the time I got back onto target his/her shields had regened. And to say the least my game got no better after that, so I have sworn to never use that particular weapon again.
After that match I decided to get to the bottom of why I sucked so bad. I had someone watching at the time and asked if I had done anything stupid that I don't normally do, his reply was a dry "Getting shot and dying" *Glare*. Ok so I checked out the other players and there weren't any big squads or truly epic players. Still scratching my head I went to the stats to see what damage I was doing with the gun......... uhhhh huhhhhhh..........
Well I think I found my issue the standard assault HMG does 10.5 damage @ 2000 RPM so I got my calculator out, 350 DPS base damage without touching on bullets missing and the damage resistance of shields versus convention type weapons. So I then began crunching the numbers on other stuff and yes before anyone asks it does less DPS than a STD AR although you can buff it it like I did.
So I would recommend that my fellow heavies stay away from this version of the HMG for the time being unless you want to get the shivers like me. But hey test it if you would like and if you get it working tell me how you did it please.
I actually skilled into the AR last night, not much as I want the Scrambler rifle when it comes out, and I started having a far better time by equipping some damage mods, biotics and a shield regulator. I feel dirty but hey I've been told to adapt or die so many times and I'll be skilling into Gallente medium frame suits further that idea.
Regards
Snag |
Boomer Dues Mortis
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
92
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 08:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Good post. I am a dedicated Heavy and I am getting mixed matches. My avg has been around a 4.0-5.0 k/d through both skirmish and ambush, prepatch it was 8.0. The issues I have encountered are the fact it seems to be a lot harder to aim now. I am wasting a lot more bullets on my enemies to bring them down due to a ton of misses.
Luckily for us Heavies CCP has confirmed that soon soon not soon(TM) they will be adding more range to the hmg and lessining the damage falloff, sadly nothing on increased overall damage, but a start is better then nothing. |
Llan Heindell
One-Armed Bandits
Atrocitas
57
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 10:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I feel like the Sentinel role is much more of a Defensive role. As a Sentinel Heavy will have the advantage on a defensive situation. They are not really suppose to be charging people.
Sometimes I feel heavies are OP, and sometimes I feel they lack something. It might be a matter of player skill...
To be honest I wish Heavies had more tank ability and not a high damage. They should be that big unit that is hard to kill and can protect their buds with cover fire while the HMG shoots everything without distinction.
That's what I feel the "Sentinel" should stand for.
Now, if they want to make a Marauder kind of class, suited for massive damage in exchange of speed/movement etc. That's something You heavies should suggest for CCP.
Llan Heindell. |
Sontie
Ill Omens
EoN.
280
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 11:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
heavy plus guy with proto repair tool equals immortal heavy. |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 12:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sontie wrote:heavy plus guy with proto repair tool equals immortal heavy.
Certainly with armour plates and cover it's not far off, myself and Stine held a position for a good minute at least against a full squad of UPS guys. But then they picked Stine off and made me their plaything, meh win some lose some, when I unlock my complex plates it'll really increase survival time with support giving the suit a good reserve of armour. Can't wait for that Gallente heavy now that's a defensive heavy suit!!!
Snag |
bill the noon
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 02:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
in these forums i keep hearing people say that its not fair or that it just shouldn't be that a heavy can have both the most health and the most powerful weapon. i don't see why not. if not to be the walking tank what is its purpose. people keep saying in threads about the hmg that the sentinel wasn't designed to be offensive. this is weird for 2 reasons. first what does the sentinel suits purpose have too do with the hmg, and why does it have so much room to beef up its running and stamina. in the last build i had nearly maxed out my heavies three mobility skills and found the ability to be a fast heavy a great skill combo. lacking any equipment slot all a heavy has to earn his war points is killing and hacking. due to his slow move speed it is hard for him to beat his team mates to the hack. if only heavies got WP for catching bullets as i've been repeatedly told that is the heavies job.
|
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 02:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
This is not how it works on Dust. If you want that, go play COD.
Heavies are the mobile fortress defensive specialist. They require support to shine, and when you do it right, they can and WILL destroy everything that comes at them with a good support logistics. Assault suits are the versatile combat workhorses. Heavies are aggressively defensive, and only good on the offensive with a group leading the charge to take the brunt of the hits.
Stop trying to make this COD. We have enough clones out there of that. |
ReGnUM Public Relations
Imperfects Public Relations
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 02:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:As many of you may have seen in previous posts I've been keeping a sort of diary on my experiences as a heavy in the current build and my thoughts about tactics, fittings and other stuff for anyone who's interested.
To be honest not much has changed for me today I still go positive in about 1/3 of matches, a 1/3 1 for 1 and the last 1/3 well negative.
Most of this revolves around the terrain, gametype and who I'm up against.
I did well in skirmishes where there was close range fast paced action where I could relocate and push through the flank of the enemy while my corp mates held them up, which is strange as really I should be doing the holding up but again bullet spread and lack of range hindered me from causing any real damage against an enemy in cover. Also having the objectives helped immensely since I could anticipate which direction the enemy would come from and where I should position myself.
Matches in which I went 1 for 1 were usually slightly more open maps mostly the AMB OMS ones where my mobility left me open to being flanked and out ranged. To combat this I acted as close protection for the squad so as soon as the enemy tried to engage up close I would push forward and allow my squad a few seconds to fall back where I could usually take one enemy with me before death. However unless there was a team member with a drop uplink I often found myself with a long hike back to the squad by which time I would have been engaged.
The matches I really struggled on where actually basic close range ambushes with 1 or more enemy corp squads running proto assault gear. I just can't keep up, in these matches the team has to stay mobile to avoid being pinned down but the heavy is just too slow in it's current form. And on top of that even if I was getting the combat situation in my favour with terrain and support from my squad I simply couldn't do enough damage fast enough at close range to the AR guys. Now hats off to them their system works well as they usually quickly move in close and begin circling me while their buddy begins to fall back and fire while I try to target the closest man. I usually die in 3-4 seconds depending on their weaponry.
So basically I've found playing the Heavy class in Skirmish is about the best way to go for myself as it gives me some ability to use tactics rather than just run and gun with the pack in AMB and you also have a chance to change out your gear more ofter in skirmish which helps the heavies other role of AV.
Now I'm still having great fun with the heavy in it's AV role as I can get really stuck in to a tank now having the HP buff. Anyone who knows me will let you know I like to be REALLY close to a tank when fighting it, which the basic heavy proto suit fills out almost perfectly for my play style.
However for the rest of the time I am starting to run my assault suit with AR and then either switching out at a supply depot close to the objective to my heavy suit. I tried using LAVs to get to the objectives but they're to easy for people to kill and take me plus two buddies out of the game. I'm getting there slowly but it's taking me some time.
Regards
Snag
HTFU
|
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
This is not how it works on Dust. If you want that, go play COD.
Heavies are the mobile fortress defensive specialist. They require support to shine, and when you do it right, they can and WILL destroy everything that comes at them with a good support logistics. Assault suits are the versatile combat workhorses. Heavies are aggressively defensive, and only good on the offensive with a group leading the charge to take the brunt of the hits.
Stop trying to make this COD. We have enough clones out there of that.
I agree with the start of your statement that not all suits should fit all roles that's fair enough however even as it stands the heavy/hmg loadout is broken as a point defender and bullet catcher because it can't even hold most choke points. I have made it work with the help of my corp mates who have been very helpful in testing out the new Heavy system but compared to the last build where I could hold the objectives against hordes of assault suits (ok maybe not hordes but quite a few). If the new setup was damn near unbeatable in it's specialised area I would say fair enough but considering other suits do better I say why bother with the heavy right now. And thats the scary thing, I've started an Assault AR build because it's more fun and I've been a dedicated heavy since the Replication build, thats when you know the games becoming a COD knockoff not because the Heavies are calling for more flexible suits and a slightly better weapon.
Regards
Snag |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
bill the noon wrote:in these forums i keep hearing people say that its not fair or that it just shouldn't be that a heavy can have both the most health and the most powerful weapon. i don't see why not. if not to be the walking tank what is its purpose. people keep saying in threads about the hmg that the sentinel wasn't designed to be offensive. this is weird for 2 reasons. first what does the sentinel suits purpose have too do with the hmg, and why does it have so much room to beef up its running and stamina. in the last build i had nearly maxed out my heavies three mobility skills and found the ability to be a fast heavy a great skill combo. lacking any equipment slot all a heavy has to earn his war points is killing and hacking. due to his slow move speed it is hard for him to beat his team mates to the hack. if only heavies got WP for catching bullets as i've been repeatedly told that is the heavies job.
+1 good post,
Originally we were told we could do what we wanted with the suits and almost make our own classes.
Snag |
|
|
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:Snagman 313 wrote:As many of you may have seen in previous posts I've been keeping a sort of diary on my experiences as a heavy in the current build and my thoughts about tactics, fittings and other stuff for anyone who's interested.
To be honest not much has changed for me today I still go positive in about 1/3 of matches, a 1/3 1 for 1 and the last 1/3 well negative.
Most of this revolves around the terrain, gametype and who I'm up against.
I did well in skirmishes where there was close range fast paced action where I could relocate and push through the flank of the enemy while my corp mates held them up, which is strange as really I should be doing the holding up but again bullet spread and lack of range hindered me from causing any real damage against an enemy in cover. Also having the objectives helped immensely since I could anticipate which direction the enemy would come from and where I should position myself.
Matches in which I went 1 for 1 were usually slightly more open maps mostly the AMB OMS ones where my mobility left me open to being flanked and out ranged. To combat this I acted as close protection for the squad so as soon as the enemy tried to engage up close I would push forward and allow my squad a few seconds to fall back where I could usually take one enemy with me before death. However unless there was a team member with a drop uplink I often found myself with a long hike back to the squad by which time I would have been engaged.
The matches I really struggled on where actually basic close range ambushes with 1 or more enemy corp squads running proto assault gear. I just can't keep up, in these matches the team has to stay mobile to avoid being pinned down but the heavy is just too slow in it's current form. And on top of that even if I was getting the combat situation in my favour with terrain and support from my squad I simply couldn't do enough damage fast enough at close range to the AR guys. Now hats off to them their system works well as they usually quickly move in close and begin circling me while their buddy begins to fall back and fire while I try to target the closest man. I usually die in 3-4 seconds depending on their weaponry.
So basically I've found playing the Heavy class in Skirmish is about the best way to go for myself as it gives me some ability to use tactics rather than just run and gun with the pack in AMB and you also have a chance to change out your gear more ofter in skirmish which helps the heavies other role of AV.
Now I'm still having great fun with the heavy in it's AV role as I can get really stuck in to a tank now having the HP buff. Anyone who knows me will let you know I like to be REALLY close to a tank when fighting it, which the basic heavy proto suit fills out almost perfectly for my play style.
However for the rest of the time I am starting to run my assault suit with AR and then either switching out at a supply depot close to the objective to my heavy suit. I tried using LAVs to get to the objectives but they're to easy for people to kill and take me plus two buddies out of the game. I'm getting there slowly but it's taking me some time.
Regards
Snag HTFU
Fair enough, but please keep it constructive as I'm trying to build up an overview of the issues with the current heavy build anything you could add on the subject would be appreciated.
Snag
|
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1696
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:Snagman 313 wrote:As many of you may have seen in previous posts I've been keeping a sort of diary on my experiences as a heavy in the current build and my thoughts about tactics, fittings and other stuff for anyone who's interested.
To be honest not much has changed for me today I still go positive in about 1/3 of matches, a 1/3 1 for 1 and the last 1/3 well negative.
Most of this revolves around the terrain, gametype and who I'm up against.
I did well in skirmishes where there was close range fast paced action where I could relocate and push through the flank of the enemy while my corp mates held them up, which is strange as really I should be doing the holding up but again bullet spread and lack of range hindered me from causing any real damage against an enemy in cover. Also having the objectives helped immensely since I could anticipate which direction the enemy would come from and where I should position myself.
Matches in which I went 1 for 1 were usually slightly more open maps mostly the AMB OMS ones where my mobility left me open to being flanked and out ranged. To combat this I acted as close protection for the squad so as soon as the enemy tried to engage up close I would push forward and allow my squad a few seconds to fall back where I could usually take one enemy with me before death. However unless there was a team member with a drop uplink I often found myself with a long hike back to the squad by which time I would have been engaged.
The matches I really struggled on where actually basic close range ambushes with 1 or more enemy corp squads running proto assault gear. I just can't keep up, in these matches the team has to stay mobile to avoid being pinned down but the heavy is just too slow in it's current form. And on top of that even if I was getting the combat situation in my favour with terrain and support from my squad I simply couldn't do enough damage fast enough at close range to the AR guys. Now hats off to them their system works well as they usually quickly move in close and begin circling me while their buddy begins to fall back and fire while I try to target the closest man. I usually die in 3-4 seconds depending on their weaponry.
So basically I've found playing the Heavy class in Skirmish is about the best way to go for myself as it gives me some ability to use tactics rather than just run and gun with the pack in AMB and you also have a chance to change out your gear more ofter in skirmish which helps the heavies other role of AV.
Now I'm still having great fun with the heavy in it's AV role as I can get really stuck in to a tank now having the HP buff. Anyone who knows me will let you know I like to be REALLY close to a tank when fighting it, which the basic heavy proto suit fills out almost perfectly for my play style.
However for the rest of the time I am starting to run my assault suit with AR and then either switching out at a supply depot close to the objective to my heavy suit. I tried using LAVs to get to the objectives but they're to easy for people to kill and take me plus two buddies out of the game. I'm getting there slowly but it's taking me some time.
Regards
Snag HTFU Fair enough, but please keep it constructive as I'm trying to build up an overview of the issues with the current heavy build anything you could add on the subject would be appreciated. Snag
HMG needs a fix |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:Snagman 313 wrote:ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:Snagman 313 wrote:As many of you may have seen in previous posts I've been keeping a sort of diary on my experiences as a heavy in the current build and my thoughts about tactics, fittings and other stuff for anyone who's interested.
To be honest not much has changed for me today I still go positive in about 1/3 of matches, a 1/3 1 for 1 and the last 1/3 well negative.
Most of this revolves around the terrain, gametype and who I'm up against.
I did well in skirmishes where there was close range fast paced action where I could relocate and push through the flank of the enemy while my corp mates held them up, which is strange as really I should be doing the holding up but again bullet spread and lack of range hindered me from causing any real damage against an enemy in cover. Also having the objectives helped immensely since I could anticipate which direction the enemy would come from and where I should position myself.
Matches in which I went 1 for 1 were usually slightly more open maps mostly the AMB OMS ones where my mobility left me open to being flanked and out ranged. To combat this I acted as close protection for the squad so as soon as the enemy tried to engage up close I would push forward and allow my squad a few seconds to fall back where I could usually take one enemy with me before death. However unless there was a team member with a drop uplink I often found myself with a long hike back to the squad by which time I would have been engaged.
The matches I really struggled on where actually basic close range ambushes with 1 or more enemy corp squads running proto assault gear. I just can't keep up, in these matches the team has to stay mobile to avoid being pinned down but the heavy is just too slow in it's current form. And on top of that even if I was getting the combat situation in my favour with terrain and support from my squad I simply couldn't do enough damage fast enough at close range to the AR guys. Now hats off to them their system works well as they usually quickly move in close and begin circling me while their buddy begins to fall back and fire while I try to target the closest man. I usually die in 3-4 seconds depending on their weaponry.
So basically I've found playing the Heavy class in Skirmish is about the best way to go for myself as it gives me some ability to use tactics rather than just run and gun with the pack in AMB and you also have a chance to change out your gear more ofter in skirmish which helps the heavies other role of AV.
Now I'm still having great fun with the heavy in it's AV role as I can get really stuck in to a tank now having the HP buff. Anyone who knows me will let you know I like to be REALLY close to a tank when fighting it, which the basic heavy proto suit fills out almost perfectly for my play style.
However for the rest of the time I am starting to run my assault suit with AR and then either switching out at a supply depot close to the objective to my heavy suit. I tried using LAVs to get to the objectives but they're to easy for people to kill and take me plus two buddies out of the game. I'm getting there slowly but it's taking me some time.
Regards
Snag HTFU Fair enough, but please keep it constructive as I'm trying to build up an overview of the issues with the current heavy build anything you could add on the subject would be appreciated. Snag HMG needs a fix
Completely agree.
Snag |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
This is not how it works on Dust. If you want that, go play COD.
Heavies are the mobile fortress defensive specialist. They require support to shine, and when you do it right, they can and WILL destroy everything that comes at them with a good support logistics. Assault suits are the versatile combat workhorses. Heavies are aggressively defensive, and only good on the offensive with a group leading the charge to take the brunt of the hits.
Stop trying to make this COD. We have enough clones out there of that. I agree with the start of your statement that not all suits should fit all roles that's fair enough however even as it stands the heavy/hmg loadout is broken as a point defender and bullet catcher because it can't even hold most choke points. I have made it work with the help of my corp mates who have been very helpful in testing out the new Heavy system but compared to the last build where I could hold the objectives against hordes of assault suits (ok maybe not hordes but quite a few). If the new setup was damn near unbeatable in it's specialised area I would say fair enough but considering other suits do better I say why bother with the heavy right now. And thats the scary thing, I've started an Assault AR build because it's more fun and I've been a dedicated heavy since the Replication build, thats when you know the games becoming a COD knockoff not because the Heavies are calling for more flexible suits and a slightly better weapon. Regards Snag
We can both agree the heavy needs buffs, both HMG and suit wise. |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1696
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Snagman 313 wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
This is not how it works on Dust. If you want that, go play COD.
Heavies are the mobile fortress defensive specialist. They require support to shine, and when you do it right, they can and WILL destroy everything that comes at them with a good support logistics. Assault suits are the versatile combat workhorses. Heavies are aggressively defensive, and only good on the offensive with a group leading the charge to take the brunt of the hits.
Stop trying to make this COD. We have enough clones out there of that. I agree with the start of your statement that not all suits should fit all roles that's fair enough however even as it stands the heavy/hmg loadout is broken as a point defender and bullet catcher because it can't even hold most choke points. I have made it work with the help of my corp mates who have been very helpful in testing out the new Heavy system but compared to the last build where I could hold the objectives against hordes of assault suits (ok maybe not hordes but quite a few). If the new setup was damn near unbeatable in it's specialised area I would say fair enough but considering other suits do better I say why bother with the heavy right now. And thats the scary thing, I've started an Assault AR build because it's more fun and I've been a dedicated heavy since the Replication build, thats when you know the games becoming a COD knockoff not because the Heavies are calling for more flexible suits and a slightly better weapon. Regards Snag We can both agree the heavy needs buffs, both HMG and suit wise.
What is wrong with the suit |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think maybe Zyrus is referring to the lack of suits?
The suit is currently quite a bit better than the old one IMHO but the lack of different types hinders it, namely some folks point out it's lack of high slots so no shield tanking like the old type 2. We have to wait for the Caldari version for that.
Snag |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
155
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
stop quoting each other - dear god my eyes - that wall of text is probably blocking the entrance to hell :O |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 06:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
SoTa of PoP wrote:stop quoting each other - dear god my eyes - that wall of text is probably blocking the entrance to hell :O
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Rogatien Merc
Ill Omens
EoN.
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 07:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
This is not how it works on Dust. If you want that, go play COD.
Heavies are the mobile fortress defensive specialist. They require support to shine, and when you do it right, they can and WILL destroy everything that comes at them with a good support logistics. Assault suits are the versatile combat workhorses. Heavies are aggressively defensive, and only good on the offensive with a group leading the charge to take the brunt of the hits.
Stop trying to make this COD. We have enough clones out there of that.
Imagine if u will... in ck.0 assault.... >750hp and tac duvolle. Around a corner I faceplant into a protons hvy with boundless. He drops to knees to tighten shotgroup and unloaded from <15m.
What do u think happens?
If u answer I don't blink and empty exactly half a clip into him and watch him die as I hit 2/3 armor.... u would be right.
This is a regular occurrence.
Makes me understand the heavies plight... something is broke. |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
111
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 08:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
This is not how it works on Dust. If you want that, go play COD.
Heavies are the mobile fortress defensive specialist. They require support to shine, and when you do it right, they can and WILL destroy everything that comes at them with a good support logistics. Assault suits are the versatile combat workhorses. Heavies are aggressively defensive, and only good on the offensive with a group leading the charge to take the brunt of the hits.
Stop trying to make this COD. We have enough clones out there of that. Imagine if u will... in ck.0 assault.... >750hp and tac duvolle. Around a corner I faceplant into a protons hvy with boundless. He drops to knees to tighten shotgroup and unloaded from <15m. What do u think happens? If u answer I don't blink and empty exactly half a clip into him and watch him die as I hit 2/3 armor.... u would be right. This is a regular occurrence. Makes me understand the heavies plight... something is broke.
Is this an agreement or rebuke? |
|
|
steadyhand amarr
NW WARLORDS
508
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 09:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
SoTa of PoP wrote:stop quoting each other - dear god my eyes - that wall of text is probably blocking the entrance to hell :O
wall of txt crits sota for over 9000 |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1707
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 19:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:SoTa of PoP wrote:stop quoting each other - dear god my eyes - that wall of text is probably blocking the entrance to hell :O wall of txt crits sota for over 9000
 |
xxMemphis
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:In all seriousness people... some people seem to think all suits should fit all roles and do well in all forms of combat.
Your right they shouldn't be able to do anything but absorb bullets....if you want to have the advantage of speed, armor, shields, and equipment slot, and cheap SP suit you should go assault 
It is a sad day when a heavy is the least feared person on the field....even a glass scout can run from you..
|
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1707
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:SoTa of PoP wrote:stop quoting each other - dear god my eyes - that wall of text is probably blocking the entrance to hell :O LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but I can't help it |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 21:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:Snagman 313 wrote:SoTa of PoP wrote:stop quoting each other - dear god my eyes - that wall of text is probably blocking the entrance to hell :O LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! but I can't help it
It's like an addiction!!!!!!!! |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
78
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 07:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ok I managed to sneak on after catching holy hell last night (I'm sure most of you know what I mean).
So here's my latest review of the Heavy/HMG loadout with the new damage buff.
So the basic HMG got a buff from 14 dmg to 18 which is an overall increase off about 33% (my head's still a bit off from last nights drinking so forgive me if I got this arithmetic wrong)
And the Adv went from 15 to 19 and proto from 15.6 to 19.6. I haven't checked the Gatsun's yet but I would guess it's just over 20 to 21 damage.
Ok so basically CCP adressed the issue of applied damage, not our DPS which was still technically 17% higher than a typical AR but how much of it we could actually use once you take into account bullet spread, damage drop off and lack of range. So they buffed the damage and did something to our beating zone, I think they tightened the cone up a bit.
Now I have found the current HMG doing what CCP want it to do as a point defence weapon very good as long as you know what you're doing with it and stick to areas with plenty of cover. Up close it's a monster now, at anything between 5m and 25m the enemy doesn't really stand much of a chance (I'm talking your equivalent level AR dude), from 25m to about 35m it depends on who started shooting first and who can move into cover if needed. Anything beyond 35m becomes difficult due to the damage drop off but if there's a badly damaged group of troops falling back from an engagement go to town until they are 50m away then just stop as you'll just cause pretty lights after that. And inside 5m your greatest enemy is the shotgun scout which is fine IMHO.
So I ran a few ambushes with and without Logibro support (Big thanks to Stine and Rico Dall) which went a lot better on close ranged maps, as guys couldn't just rush me in a group anymore they had to group up and try to outflank me, which as they found out doesn't work too well at close range . So that went well but on more open maps where I could be out paced and flanked at longer ranges I could only keep up a 1.0 KDR so that's ok as my heavy is built as a walking tank.
I then ran a couple of Amb OMS maps and much the same again, get in close and control the ground, don't get stuck in the open and try to have Logibro support.
Then I ran 3 skirmishes, 1 without any support just a random pub skirmish, another with 2 team mates one of which was a dedicated Logibro and finally a FW skirmish with a lot of guys on comms on both sides.
Now this is where I think the heavy is at, an objective based game where the enemy must come to you and you can plan your moves carefully, but also in a skirmish with the proper support the heavy can gain an offensive role by using either LAV's (which can be a bit of death trap) or Dropships which are my personal favourite, nothing says "You're FCKD!!!!" like a heavy falling from the sky and activating his inertial dampeners just a few inches above you. In such a role you're not likely to survive long but you do get that shock troop role back and can really break up enemy fortification. I kept my KDR on all 3 skirmished over 4.0 which was nice. But you do need to work as part of a well organised team to be successful, there's no running and gunning with the heavy/hmg setup these days although when the new suits turn up you might get a more mobile platform and slightly more flexible weapon.
You will still lose badly to someone with a Tac AR in the open but up close they don't have a hope in hell without backup and even then you'll do a lot more damage than before.
I also kept notes on who and what I died to, where and what level of gear they were using. Right now it seems balanced in a fight with std vs std at distance I lose but in proto vs proto up close I win however this is only 1 days worth of data.
Also a small word on armour tanking with this current heavy..... it sorta works as long as you have a couple of Logibro's using proto reppers and have a good pool of armour to begin with, I think it could be a very viable option with the gallente heavy suit.
More to come soon,
Snag |
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