DUST Search - How does passive scanning work, and does it work at all at the moment?

Appia Vibbia wrote:

Ric Barlom wrote:

Appia Vibbia wrote:

blah blah blah, Appia talks a lot.

Thanks for the feedback, and let me be the first one to tell you that I feel your pain. I've also invested into pretty much all of those scanning related skills and that's a lot of skill points right there and it seems like there's a lot of problems with this mechanic. Now let me ask you a question: Can you detect people with your radar, inside your radius, behind walls or hills if you, or someone else, don't have a direct visual on them? Because I can't, and I know my precision is lower than their profile.

Interesting effects: On Skim Junction, where you get that giant planetary defense gun with the 3 rings, I was walking along the outside of "B." Without line of Sight, I did pick up a Heavy Frame suit that was coming towards me. He too was circling the wall so I was indeed able to see his marker on my tacnet through the wall.
At the same time there were enemies near "B" n the otherside of the wall. They were lit up because they were engaged in combat, but then my bluebies messed up royally and lost a 6 on 3 battle so the chevrons disappeared as their names showed up on top in the kill list.

Ric, are you sure of your scan radius? That is that first circle on the radar is only 10m, then each score after is 5m.

my low slots in my Gallente are 1 mlt kincat (such a huge SP tax on that now) 1 STD armor repairer, 1 complex profile Dampener, and 1 Complex Range Enhancer. so my scanner picks up things within 24.5m

I have also picked up someone that was within the 24m radius who was up above me on a platform. The helipad looking structure. I was on the backside of the structure while they were on the front side... that was actually the heavy who hunted me down.

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shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 71	Posted - 2013.05.11 17:46:00 - [31] - Quote idk, i'm not a scout, but i spent some points on passive scanning, i can see drop uplinks from miles but it seems that everybody can see them, surely the passive scanning is not working on the mini map, does it work on the screen ? I can't believe everybody have spent points on damping....
Appia Vibbia Opus Arcana Orion Empire 28	Posted - 2013.05.11 17:53:00 - [32] - Quote Ric Barlom wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: blah blah blah, Appia talks a lot. Thanks for the feedback, and let me be the first one to tell you that I feel your pain. I've also invested into pretty much all of those scanning related skills and that's a lot of skill points right there and it seems like there's a lot of problems with this mechanic. Now let me ask you a question: Can you detect people with your radar, inside your radius, behind walls or hills if you, or someone else, don't have a direct visual on them? Because I can't, and I know my precision is lower than their profile. Interesting effects: On Skim Junction, where you get that giant planetary defense gun with the 3 rings, I was walking along the outside of "B." Without line of Sight, I did pick up a Heavy Frame suit that was coming towards me. He too was circling the wall so I was indeed able to see his marker on my tacnet through the wall. At the same time there were enemies near "B" n the otherside of the wall. They were lit up because they were engaged in combat, but then my bluebies messed up royally and lost a 6 on 3 battle so the chevrons disappeared as their names showed up on top in the kill list. Ric, are you sure of your scan radius? That is that first circle on the radar is only 10m, then each score after is 5m. my low slots in my Gallente are 1 mlt kincat (such a huge SP tax on that now) 1 STD armor repairer, 1 complex profile Dampener, and 1 Complex Range Enhancer. so my scanner picks up things within 24.5m I have also picked up someone that was within the 24m radius who was up above me on a platform. The helipad looking structure. I was on the backside of the structure while they were on the front side... that was actually the heavy who hunted me down.
Ric Barlom On The Brink CRONOS. 82	Posted - 2013.05.11 20:13:00 - [33] - Quote shaman oga wrote: idk, i'm not a scout, but i spent some points on passive scanning, i can see drop uplinks from miles but it seems that everybody can see them, surely the passive scanning is not working on the mini map, does it work on the screen ? I can't believe everybody have spent points on damping.... It definitely doesn't work on the screen either. I mean, one of the reason I noticed this to begin with is, because I have a habit, perhaps a dumb one, to sprint around the corners and what happened is that, I used to get heads up with my scanning if there was enemies around that corner but nowadays I sometimes ran into a handful of guys, including a heavy lurking around just a few meters around the corner.
Ric Barlom On The Brink CRONOS. 82	Posted - 2013.05.11 20:32:00 - [34] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Ric Barlom wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: blah blah blah, Appia talks a lot. Thanks for the feedback, and let me be the first one to tell you that I feel your pain. I've also invested into pretty much all of those scanning related skills and that's a lot of skill points right there and it seems like there's a lot of problems with this mechanic. Now let me ask you a question: Can you detect people with your radar, inside your radius, behind walls or hills if you, or someone else, don't have a direct visual on them? Because I can't, and I know my precision is lower than their profile. Interesting effects: On Skim Junction, where you get that giant planetary defense gun with the 3 rings, I was walking along the outside of "B." Without line of Sight, I did pick up a Heavy Frame suit that was coming towards me. He too was circling the wall so I was indeed able to see his marker on my tacnet through the wall. At the same time there were enemies near "B" n the otherside of the wall. They were lit up because they were engaged in combat, but then my bluebies messed up royally and lost a 6 on 3 battle so the chevrons disappeared as their names showed up on top in the kill list. Ric, are you sure of your scan radius? That is that first circle on the radar is only 10m, then each score after is 5m. my low slots in my Gallente are 1 mlt kincat (such a huge SP tax on that now) 1 STD armor repairer, 1 complex profile Dampener, and 1 Complex Range Enhancer. so my scanner picks up things within 24.5m I have also picked up someone that was within the 24m radius who was up above me on a platform. The helipad looking structure. I was on the backside of the structure while they were on the front side... that was actually the heavy who hunted me down. That's very interesting and thanks for the info on the scan radius ranges. So if I understood correctly the second ring on the radar would be at 25 meter distance, right? Now that brings me to another question I've been wondering as we can't see our total scan radius on our fittings. How are the totals calculated? Are all the different percentages added to the base number of 10? Or is there some other way of adding up all these percentage bonuses coming from different sources?
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 83	Posted - 2013.05.12 03:11:00 - [35] - Quote Yep, i have notice this. I was going to make a post about it XD.. I am a gellente scout, (that should make me hard to find), i have spent skill points to profile dampeners (that should make me even harder to find), and i have fitted several profile dampeners to my proto suit (i should be freaking invisible at this point). But somehow it seems i still have the profile of a heavy with a siren on his head.. so wtf? (reserved for actual stats)
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.05.12 12:42:00 - [36] - Quote Gallente Scout here as well. I opted to forgo the Profile Dampening skill and Range Amplification for now. Aside for it not consistent -- if it works at all; the skills are just too expensive for the bonus you're getting. My thinking was, why spend all this SP to get 2% dampening and 10% range separately, when I could spend that SP in the Racial Suit and get them both up. But yeah, passive scanning is f'd. Also, we have the same base scan radius as Logies. wth right?
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 17	Posted - 2013.05.12 15:14:00 - [37] - Quote Hello, I have made a small picture clarifying how distances in the minimap are shown so people with this issue can verify if the game is actually not showing the enemies within the distance that it is supposed to be showing them Mini map explained
Xubber II The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2013.05.12 20:41:00 - [38] - Quote Agreed I run Assailt with maxed out skill scan skill (forgot its name) seems a waste of a skill doesnt seem to do anything even when I run complex high slot scan module.
Cruxio Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.05.12 20:47:00 - [39] - Quote My passive scans work its just a lot shorter, probably extends to about the distance of 200% of a shotgun round. I picked up guys around corners and lone snipers on a higher platform than me without visual contact and the sniper was far enough from the action to where someone else spotted him. Still a Gallante scout until other variants come around
lDocHollidayl Imperfects Negative-Feedback 179	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:08:00 - [40] - Quote I wish I read this thread before testing. I just wasted millions of SP. I agree it seems not to be working...several people... heavies snuck up on me. It seems elevation makes all passive skills mute. It seems it does not work but range is so tiny... it is hard to tell. Look at the distance numbers when you are looking at the letter objectives with the distances. The meters are so tiny. Seeing enemies is the only consistent way I saw red chevrons. I plan on testing with a friendly red dot to see more.

lDocHollidayl Imperfects Negative-Feedback 179	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:14:00 - [41] - Quote Sounds like only Line of Sight effects radar...or team mates line of sight.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 48	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:38:00 - [42] - Quote Passive scanning seems to point out equipment (drop uplinks from miles away) while suits of all frame size stay almost never show up on my radar. Line of sight is shared with in the squad I think as I get radar dots when squad member sees someone. Btw guys, keep up the good conversation you have going here, devs have to check this sooner or later!
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.12 23:52:00 - [43] - Quote I think CCP is completely lost now with regard to Suit Design and what it's supposed to be capable of or even excel at. What screws the Scouts over is the fact that it was designed to be a Marksman and/or a swift and stealthy Recon. That was a role I think CCP was trying to place it in. What they failed to do was make it specific to only the Scout. And remember, if we're talking 'roles', the CCP wanted the scout to be the marksman of the group (also a 'scout': scanning while being stealthy: Scouts are complaining passive scanning is f'd) -- a glass cannon, having Sniper OP 1 as default in Chromosome. (The Tac AR is a marksman rifle) If they limited the use of Sniper Rifles to Scouts, then you won't be seeing Logies hanging back Sniping like its their job. You can't blame them because they're simply set-up to be better at it, but they fail in fulfilling the role of a Logi. If I remember correctly, the Logies have a default SMG Op 1. What does that tell you about the role CCP thought up for the Logi? Just below med - short range, so it sticks to it's longer ranged teammates while providing reps, resupply. I think either they give specific suits huge bonuses to what their intended role is to play on the field and reward them for doing that, OR give them module/equipment/weapons specificity barring any other suit class from equiping those module/equipment/weapons or give them penalties if they do. Scouts are out in the cold. As I've always said, all we really have is a smaller hit box, everything else can be copied and surpassed by the Assault and especially the Logi.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 186	Posted - 2013.05.13 15:55:00 - [44] - Quote The STD Active scanner works up to 100m in a 60 degree arc. Now regardless of the precision it has, that's 5x farther than a max Gallente scout will get passively (no extra skill or mods) or 20m. 25m to put that in perspective, is approximately the max range for most of the Shotgun variants. 10m is the range most shotgunners OHK you. Laser Rifles max range is ~80m, optimal is greater than ~60m. Tac Assault Rifles max range is ~120m, optimal is less than ~70m. Pistol max range is ~70m, optimal is less than ~20m. SMG max range is ~40m, optimal is less than ~15m. Blaster Turret max range is ~100m, optimal is less than ~60m. So for the vast majority of guns in the game, even maximum scanning is far FAR inside to the optimal range for your weapons. Most people are going to engage at at least 50m out, regardless of whether or not they can see you on minimap. Scouts may be hidden from radar, but that bonus only really applies once they have sneaked their way into CQC anyway. Most Assaults or Heavy's don't need to spec Precision, since they will want to engage way outside the range of their scanning abilities anyway. And since most Scouts are naturally dampened to be invisible already, there is no reason to spec Dampening either. You are only going to combat that very small percentage of intel voyeurs, who want to engage you outside of radar range anyway. * Passive Range needs the first boost, allowing people who spec in it to have a natural radar up to ~80 or ~100m, and ~120 for a Scout. This will be great for Assaults / Logis to know where to shoot. The minimap would be a resource for everyone, not just noise in CQC. Given how expensive it is SP wise, and given how it doesn't inform your teammates' radars, this skill would still not oust the Active Scanner. * Active Scanning needs WP scoring. Either 5WP for anyone you ping, or 10-15WP if your ping leads to a kill (like a Kill Assist bonus). This will further entice specialization into Active Scanning over Passive Scanning.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries 145	Posted - 2013.05.13 17:19:00 - [45] - Quote I was going to skill into scanning modules. But whats the point. A 50% module gives me 15m instead of 10m - pointless
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 84	Posted - 2013.05.14 19:08:00 - [46] - Quote So we all agree, they are not working.
Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 74	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:48:00 - [47] - Quote I have to admit that sometimes (very rarely though) a red dot lights up on my scanner without any blues around to spot it (could have been a sniper or something ofc). This is not to say they aren't broken, they are, but in a staged test under perfect conditions they may appear to work. Also the few times the scanner may have worked whoever it picked up wasn't really a threat. It's never given a warning when needed -- i.e. I'm about to get killed by someone right next to me (but out of LOS). Since I'm still in the habit of always keeping an eye on the scanner I've started reading the kill reports whenever that happens, far too often they are well within scanner range and wearing medium suits. I wear lights and maxed my scanner skills, I doubt anyone is currently wasting slots on dampeners so I should have picked them up. This is not limited to reds not in the field of view btw. I've had the dot vanish when something temporarily blocked LOS even though my gun still trained on them to be ready when they re-appeared. This has been well within range. Maybe the suit scanner sends out pulses every n seconds? If so, maybe they forgot to adjust the pulse rate when they gimped the range? Honestly they should just increase ranges to what they were before uprising. Active scanners still have their use (far more range, more likely to give an adequate estimate of the number of reds, useful for picking up flanking scouts), especially for anyone in a medium suit.
Ric Barlom Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 163	Posted - 2013.05.27 17:03:00 - [48] - Quote So I made this thread quite some time ago now and I must admit, it's getting frustrating to get killed by heavies who were sitting right behind the corner just a few meters away while my radar never picked them up. I think I'm not the only one who thinks that scouts are pretty damn useless at the moment because of this whole scanning issue. I mean both of the role bonuses on Gallente scout are scanning things and so far it has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of the matches as it works rarely if at all. I think it's safe to say that Minmataar assault does everything, that matters, better than the scout at this moment.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 91	Posted - 2013.05.27 17:40:00 - [49] - Quote From my experience and a large amount of sp invested into this, that it is broken. The only test that I need is to try and hack something while a heavy comes up behind me and shoots. No blip unless I'm looking at them or someone else sees them. All of that sp is going into something else for the respec.


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