DUST Search - the skill tree is excellent...why the QQ?

Cosgar wrote:

hooc order wrote:

Travi Zyg wrote:

i honestly do feel for some of you guys who skilled into the wrong things. i would be upset too if i dumped a quarter of my 10 mil SP into something i didnt want.

BUT , that being said, how did you manage to skill into an ENTIRE branch through and through before realizing that it isnt what you intended to skill into. Its all so streamlined and clear to read, unless you had a blindfold on when selecting them how could you have not read them or at least pressed triangle to read your descriptions if you had an ounce of doubt about what you needed.

Personally, i would have felt so much more comfortable having a skill tree UI like uprising than the massive lists in the previous build when i started playing Dust...The tree is far better than the list ands its really weird seeing people try to justify it sucking. On a sidenote, didnt they also say you could switch back to the list view? change it if you dont like it, theres no need to post a gripe about the skill tree UI here when you have been given the option to opt out of using it.

The QQ is because the skill tree/level progression model is fundamentally wrong for this genre of game play. FPS is about instant gratification of beating someone. We should get a choice of all the toys at the start to do just that....if you want logos on your gun and cool looking hats i guess i am OK if you have to earn those over time.

I'm sorry, but First Person Shooter is such an ambiguous label being applied to games in this modern electronic entertainment media age. Many games have adopted aspects from different genre to reinforce weaknesses from other genre that go beyond the restricting categories we have now. Have you ever read the dissertation on Mechanics Dynamics and Aesthetics of Gaming? (Summarized in video form) If you haven't it's very enlightening and I would recommend it to gamers and developers alike.

Dust 514 goes beyond the FPS genre and covers all of the 8 essential aesthetics that define a game:
1. Sensation
2. Fantasy
3. Narrative
4. Challenge
5. Fellowship
6. Discovery
7. Expression
8. Submission (Game as a passtime)

Simply defining Dust 514 as just an FPS is almost an insult to what CCP is trying to accomplish.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Travi Zyg G I A N T EoN. 56	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:25:00 - [1] - Quote i honestly do feel for some of you guys who skilled into the wrong things. i would be upset too if i dumped a quarter of my 10 mil SP into something i didnt want. BUT , that being said, how did you manage to skill into an ENTIRE branch through and through before realizing that it isnt what you intended to skill into. Its all so streamlined and clear to read, unless you had a blindfold on when selecting them how could you have not read them or at least pressed triangle to read your descriptions if you had an ounce of doubt about what you needed. Personally, i would have felt so much more comfortable having a skill tree UI like uprising than the massive lists in the previous build when i started playing Dust...The tree is far better than the list ands its really weird seeing people try to justify it sucking. On a sidenote, didnt they also say you could switch back to the list view? change it if you dont like it, theres no need to post a gripe about the skill tree UI here when you have been given the option to opt out of using it.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 875	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:28:00 - [2] - Quote My guess is that people blitzed through without paying attention to things like the numbers in the locks and the SP requirements at each stage. While I'll admit that I'd like to have some of my old fits back, I get the whole "beta was fast forwarded" thing as a reason to make those suits and stuff harder to get.
Threshner Norack Fleetworks Silent Infinity 15	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:32:00 - [3] - Quote People were idiots and threw every point they had into one thing. I heard so guy throw 10 million points into tanks alone????? Just sit down and read every single ability ! Then spread out your points or a good base character who can at least use the stuff you want. Then after you have that go for the advanced stuff. Right now i have most of the stuff i want unlocked for about a 1.5 million points. Now i'm just looking at what to specialize in before i spend the rest. Still got 3 million left to spend. These forums had me afraid at the cost of skills but they aren't that high.
Clark Coba BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:34:00 - [4] - Quote I think that new skills are kinda boring. lvl 1 to unlock that, lalv 3 to unlock this. All the same skill for different weapons or modules. and so much CPU/PG skills. Old Skills wasnt funt tho, but new ones are dull
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers EoN. 198	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:35:00 - [5] - Quote character sheet --> skills = old skill list == not possible to screw up your SP ppl wanna cry about their own screw ups, go elsewhere. the serious issues with the game itself are what all the grown ups are trying to discuss, not the idiot that wasted 8 million SP on the wrong suit just to find out he doesn't have any SP left to spec into a weapon... poor planning on your part. Everyone has been around for a while if you are re-specing with a pile of SP. absolutely no excuse for your own stupidity in making poor allocation choices. /thread
Chris F2112 187. Unclaimed. 146	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:39:00 - [6] - Quote I really like the new skills. Everything is streamlined, and overall more simple to read. The rants about SP sinks were clearly wrong, because with my 6.8 mil SP I managed to get pretty much everything I wanted. Having basic suits cost less SP for proto means that new players can get into top level gear sooner, and making the overall progression right off the bat quicker. I'd say it was a good change.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 117	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:41:00 - [7] - Quote I love the new tree look and I'm an EVE neckbeard that loves lists and excel. I didn't put a single point into something I didn't want, and I'm not the smartest guy around... I think that says something about those that ****** up.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 207	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:45:00 - [8] - Quote BursegSardaukar wrote: I love the new tree look and I'm an EVE neckbeard that loves lists and excel. I didn't put a single point into something I didn't want, and I'm not the smartest guy around... I think that says something about those that ****** up. Pretty much this, and the fact that 90% of FPS gamers only go onto a forum to cry about something. I think the new node view makes skilling easier for those not used to the Eve style lists, and traditionalists get to keep the listview if they choose. People will cry about anything they can.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 134	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:46:00 - [9] - Quote People rushing and not knowing when to start. I have a friend who didn't realize there were actually basic suits, he thought all the suits started with the specializations. Big chunk of SP lost. Well not really lost since he will need those eventually, but he'll have to manage without high tier weapons and modules for awhile. Think for this specific instance the problem is the skill is called "Medium Frame" which I can see if you're rushing doesn't sound like a suit when you see Assault and Logistics in the next branch. But still, slow down and figure it out before you sink all your SP.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 16	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:47:00 - [10] - Quote The problem is people leveled up skills without thinking about how much it would cost. If you spend time thinking about what you want you'll be fine.

Jin Robot Polar Gooks 401	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:52:00 - [11] - Quote The error lies with the user. I spent alot and wasted nothing. It is very straight forward if people would slow down and pay attention.
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 197	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:54:00 - [12] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: character sheet --> skills = old skill list == not possible to screw up your SP ppl wanna cry about their own screw ups, go elsewhere. the serious issues with the game itself are what all the grown ups are trying to discuss, not the idiot that wasted 8 million SP on the wrong suit just to find out he doesn't have any SP left to spec into a weapon... poor planning on your part. Everyone has been around for a while if you are re-specing with a pile of SP. absolutely no excuse for your own stupidity in making poor allocation choices. /thread +1
Thor Odinson42 Planetary Response Organization 157	Posted - 2013.05.07 16:09:00 - [13] - Quote I love the new skill tree. I think it's awesome.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:59:00 - [14] - Quote Skill tree is really very well done and excellent example of clear, straightforward and simple functionality.
Delta 749 Maverick Security Consulting 19	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:03:00 - [15] - Quote I wouldnt call it excellent, a step up from the spreadsheet we had before but its definitely not ideal Oh and theres no opt out to revert to the old one, in what I imagine is an oversight you can go through a different sub menu to reach the old style if you prefer it, a simple toggle to select which UI you prefer would be nice to have though
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 602	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:20:00 - [16] - Quote Many of the skills in the vehicle tree are bugged, misleading and just outright don't make any sense. For example, for access to a damage control module, you need levels in dropsuit command when all the other vehicle and dropsuit skills are segregated. Because there isn't a basic suit that doesn't have more than one equipment slot, many logistic players had to max the basic suits just to even have access to what used to be the type 1. That was an unnecessary SP sink and all suit classes could have benefited from a dual prerequisite system where each single level unlocks a level of the same meta level class dropsuit. (EG: Basic Medium lvl 1 => Assault or Logistics level 1) That way, classes like logistics could get access to a type 1 suit with only 1 level of basic medium. The way it stands now, having to max the basic suit skill is an unnecessary SP sink that's not worth the investment just to unlock an inferior basic tier suit many meta levels below the basic suit's capabilities just for their class bonus. There are other issues with bugged modules and skills, but these are the most daunting that need to be addressed promptly.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 41	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:26:00 - [17] - Quote Travi Zyg wrote: i honestly do feel for some of you guys who skilled into the wrong things. i would be upset too if i dumped a quarter of my 10 mil SP into something i didnt want. BUT , that being said, how did you manage to skill into an ENTIRE branch through and through before realizing that it isnt what you intended to skill into. Its all so streamlined and clear to read, unless you had a blindfold on when selecting them how could you have not read them or at least pressed triangle to read your descriptions if you had an ounce of doubt about what you needed. Personally, i would have felt so much more comfortable having a skill tree UI like uprising than the massive lists in the previous build when i started playing Dust...The tree is far better than the list ands its really weird seeing people try to justify it sucking. On a sidenote, didnt they also say you could switch back to the list view? change it if you dont like it, theres no need to post a gripe about the skill tree UI here when you have been given the option to opt out of using it. The QQ is because the skill tree/level progression model is fundamentally wrong for this genre of game play. FPS is about instant gratification of beating someone. We should get a choice of all the toys at the start to do just that....if you want logos on your gun and cool looking hats i guess i am OK if you have to earn those over time.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 57	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:28:00 - [18] - Quote I spent 8 million in HAV's and the vehicle core skills, but the PG skill is broken, and several vehicle modules are in Dropsuit slots (now fixed). Also, the turrets can't lift past a few degrees. These things, although don't seem gamebreaking, are. But since your not a pilot, you wouldn't understand. Peace, Godin
Xander Mercy SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 116	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:31:00 - [19] - Quote my friend tryed to use the market to skill up
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 604	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:40:00 - [20] - Quote hooc order wrote: Travi Zyg wrote: i honestly do feel for some of you guys who skilled into the wrong things. i would be upset too if i dumped a quarter of my 10 mil SP into something i didnt want. BUT , that being said, how did you manage to skill into an ENTIRE branch through and through before realizing that it isnt what you intended to skill into. Its all so streamlined and clear to read, unless you had a blindfold on when selecting them how could you have not read them or at least pressed triangle to read your descriptions if you had an ounce of doubt about what you needed. Personally, i would have felt so much more comfortable having a skill tree UI like uprising than the massive lists in the previous build when i started playing Dust...The tree is far better than the list ands its really weird seeing people try to justify it sucking. On a sidenote, didnt they also say you could switch back to the list view? change it if you dont like it, theres no need to post a gripe about the skill tree UI here when you have been given the option to opt out of using it. The QQ is because the skill tree/level progression model is fundamentally wrong for this genre of game play. FPS is about instant gratification of beating someone. We should get a choice of all the toys at the start to do just that....if you want logos on your gun and cool looking hats i guess i am OK if you have to earn those over time. I'm sorry, but First Person Shooter is such an ambiguous label being applied to games in this modern electronic entertainment media age. Many games have adopted aspects from different genre to reinforce weaknesses from other genre that go beyond the restricting categories we have now. Have you ever read the dissertation on Mechanics Dynamics and Aesthetics of Gaming? (Summarized in video form) If you haven't it's very enlightening and I would recommend it to gamers and developers alike. Dust 514 goes beyond the FPS genre and covers all of the 8 essential aesthetics that define a game: 1. Sensation 2. Fantasy 3. Narrative 4. Challenge 5. Fellowship 6. Discovery 7. Expression 8. Submission (Game as a passtime) Simply defining Dust 514 as just an FPS is almost an insult to what CCP is trying to accomplish.

Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1466	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:43:00 - [21] - Quote Can't wait to get my hands on the new tree.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 41	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:14:00 - [22] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Dust 514 goes beyond the FPS genre and covers all of the 8 essential aesthetics that define a game: 1. Sensation 2. Fantasy 3. Narrative 4. Challenge 5. Fellowship 6. Discovery 7. Expression 8. Submission (Game as a passtime) Simply defining Dust 514 as just an FPS is almost an insult to what CCP is trying to accomplish. 1. Sensation - An FPS with crappy aim and broken hit detection. 2. Fantasy - collapse of sense of disbelief when an AR's bullets evaporate yet a snipers bullets travel across the entire map...why can't i use a sniper rifle as an AR again? 3. Narrative - the story of getting killed by terrible players who have more SP then you 4. Challenge - It just takes so much effort to get unstuck from this wall...can i do it?!?! 5. Fellowship - Facebook in SPAAAAAACCEEEE Spaaace spaaaace echo echo echo 6. Discovery - hey did that mountain where snipers use to hide and people would bring in tanks on disappear? 7. Expression - only 6 more months of grinding as a scout then i will have enough SP to be the logi i always wanted to be. 8. Submission (Game as a passtime) - Those who adapt will have the benefit of playing against the same 1000 players next month......those 100 of thousands who don't will move on to play other games.
Delta 749 Maverick Security Consulting 23	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:35:00 - [23] - Quote Cosgar wrote: hooc order wrote: Travi Zyg wrote: i honestly do feel for some of you guys who skilled into the wrong things. i would be upset too if i dumped a quarter of my 10 mil SP into something i didnt want. BUT , that being said, how did you manage to skill into an ENTIRE branch through and through before realizing that it isnt what you intended to skill into. Its all so streamlined and clear to read, unless you had a blindfold on when selecting them how could you have not read them or at least pressed triangle to read your descriptions if you had an ounce of doubt about what you needed. Personally, i would have felt so much more comfortable having a skill tree UI like uprising than the massive lists in the previous build when i started playing Dust...The tree is far better than the list ands its really weird seeing people try to justify it sucking. On a sidenote, didnt they also say you could switch back to the list view? change it if you dont like it, theres no need to post a gripe about the skill tree UI here when you have been given the option to opt out of using it. The QQ is because the skill tree/level progression model is fundamentally wrong for this genre of game play. FPS is about instant gratification of beating someone. We should get a choice of all the toys at the start to do just that....if you want logos on your gun and cool looking hats i guess i am OK if you have to earn those over time. I'm sorry, but First Person Shooter is such an ambiguous label being applied to games in this modern electronic entertainment media age. Many games have adopted aspects from different genre to reinforce weaknesses from other genre that go beyond the restricting categories we have now. Have you ever read the dissertation on Mechanics Dynamics and Aesthetics of Gaming? (Summarized in video form) If you haven't it's very enlightening and I would recommend it to gamers and developers alike. Dust 514 goes beyond the FPS genre and covers all of the 8 essential aesthetics that define a game: 1. Sensation 2. Fantasy 3. Narrative 4. Challenge 5. Fellowship 6. Discovery 7. Expression 8. Submission (Game as a passtime) Simply defining Dust 514 as just an FPS is almost an insult to what CCP is trying to accomplish. Spoken like a king of the fanboys
Solomon Malcolm BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 20	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:49:00 - [24] - Quote I actually Took the time and read all the skill information before i started, and my character is the same as last time. A better way also is to use the market and go from there. The old skill list is in the war room too i believe, but you can't upgrade anything.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 42	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:04:00 - [25] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Spoken like a king of the fanboys And a blind def and dumb one at that. He only see the game CCP promised.....not the actual broken game we are playing now....well some of us are playing. I know i stopped. Apparently the magical CCP promised game in his head fits some youtubers ideal game as well.
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1105	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:15:00 - [26] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: My guess is that people blitzed through without paying attention to things like the numbers in the locks and the SP requirements at each stage. While I'll admit that I'd like to have some of my old fits back, I get the whole "beta was fast forwarded" thing as a reason to make those suits and stuff harder to get. I don't even know where it shows the skill multiplier cost anymore.... And dropsuits that take as long to level up as capital ships in eve .. woooo fun
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits 228	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:23:00 - [27] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: BursegSardaukar wrote: I love the new tree look and I'm an EVE neckbeard that loves lists and excel. I didn't put a single point into something I didn't want, and I'm not the smartest guy around... I think that says something about those that **** up. Pretty much this, and the fact that 90% of FPS gamers only go onto a forum to cry about something.** You just struck Gold my Friend.
Rhorian Darkstar Dark Force Katana General Tso's Alliance 9	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:27:00 - [28] - Quote and the fact this is apart of eve and not CoD
Val'herik Dorn SyNergy Gaming EoN. 519	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:32:00 - [29] - Quote I hated the new tree... for the first hour I stared at it trying to understand it(boss said oh hey your salaried come in three hours late...) Then about 2 hours in I noticed I was ok with it. Then I started pressing triangle... you know that button that's shows info whenever its on something. Now I'm ok with it and find it much easier to navigate. You just have to try and it becomes your friend.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits 228	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:33:00 - [30] - Quote hooc order wrote: 2. Fantasy - collapse of suspension of disbelief when an AR's bullets evaporate yet a snipers bullets travel across the entire map...why can't i use a sniper rifle as an AR again? 6. Discovery - hey did that mountain where snipers use to hide and people would bring in tanks on disappear? 7. Expression - only 6 more months of grinding as a scout then i will have enough SP to be the logi i always wanted to be. 2.) AR's shoot plasma, which dissipates in Air. Sniper rifles shot a solid projectile using rail gun technology. Also, a sniper rifle would be OP if you could us it as an AR (I hope you were being sarcastic). 6.) Those Mountains needed to go. Got rid of all those noob snipers (most were noobs). Just sitting up there the entire game getting like three kills and 2 deaths... Weak sauce, not to mention boring. 7.) Did you honestly waste all of your SP on a class that you were not 100% about? You should always work your way slowly through a class to make sure it is what you want to skill in. That is your fault, nobody is to blame.



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