DUST Search - Hey reset whiners, CCP caved into your demands

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

KalOfTheRathi wrote:

@Ludvig Enraga, hmm. They didn't charge anyone for access to the Beta. Did someone scam you, Ludvig? Beta users were free to purchase the Merc Packs or not. I know many players that have never spent anything on the game as well as some that have spent a sizable amount. Near the end of the closed Beta Sony PS+ members were given Beta Keys for free. I got mine elsewhere many months before that and it was free as well. There wasn't even a Merc Pack available to buy when I started.

The terms of service from Sony PS Store are clear. As is the End User Agreement. The Legal claims are being made by persons that speak as if they have no experience with the law nor the legal system. IANAL should be the standard disclaimer on these topics.

The definition of the refund could have been clearer but first you have to realize that a character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. We have worked to get the SP and I don't want to give it back to just restart a cheap Merc Pack. I believe that this is a reasonable solution and indeed is the only solution that would satisfy all. Some will still be unhappy but they will have their chance to take the offer or not.

A character reset for everybody will cause many to leave.

A character reset for Merc Pack users will force many who have already demonstrated a willingness to pay for the game to stop doing so.

I have one Merc Pack, and I bought one for my girlfriend when she showed interest in DUST.

After Uprising shows up, I've got some money I'm saving in case there's a different deal from the Merc Pack, because I want to see what options there are coming into release. If CCP decide to run with the current "offer" they're going with, I'm not losing enough to care. I'm just going to spend that money elsewhere. If they actually offer something valid within the context of what they agreed to give Merc Pack customers, then I'll definitely be spending more of my money immediately, as well as being open to spending even more in future.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Unclaimed. 79	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:18:00 - [1] - Quote Details on the following dev blog http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/05/uprising-skill-point-re-spec-details -"Additionally, we will be offering to all players that purchased the Mercenary Pack or Aurum Packs before January 22nd an optional full character reset with Mercenary Pack or Aurum reimbursement. If you choose an optional character reset, all character attributes, skills, skill points, and wallet will be reset to zero, but the Mercenary Pack(s) (including applicable Aurum) and/or Aurum pack(s) will be added back to the account for re-use within Uprising. Players will be given a limited period in which to choose the optional full character reset, and the dates for choosing this option will be announced at a later time. This will be the last reset of the Mercenary Pack and Aurum packs, and no further resets will be available." Just kidding, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, I know all you suckas wanted to keep the SP gained from merc packs, but get a refund from them. I dare anyone who wants a merc pack refund to do it.
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 46	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:19:00 - [2] - Quote But but.... 2 FOR 1!!!?
Ryanki VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 34	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:23:00 - [3] - Quote Although I'd LIKE a refund and the option to keep all my SP, in reality it just wouldn't be fair, considering I some of it to get the SP I have now... I mean, from the developer's point of view, it probably is a difficult thing to consider increasing the SP disparity between paying players and nonpaying, wouldn't that basically reinforce the principle of P2W? And i get that it was said we would get refunds on release, but the definition of release was murky...I was pretty pissed off about that too, and you could put that on them for being ambiguous, but realistically we can't expect them to give a full refund and current SP this late, the point of contention should be that they put it off for so long, leading to this situation
King Kobrah SyNergy Gaming EoN. 248	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:25:00 - [4] - Quote LOL CCP SCREWED OVER CONSUMERS BY NOT HONORING THEIR TERMS OF PURCHASE THEY SURE SHOWED US OP XDDDDddddD111!!@!@1 LE EPIK FAEC
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Unclaimed. 79	Posted - 2013.05.05 03:52:00 - [5] - Quote King Kobrah wrote: LOL CCP SCREWED OVER CONSUMERS BY NOT HONORING THEIR TERMS OF PURCHASE THEY SURE SHOWED US OP XDDDDddddD111!!@!@1 LE EPIK FAEC You can get a refund for all merc packs, just that they will reset all isk, and skillpoints too as well to zero. Its not like they can quantify the % of isk and sp gained from use of merc pack, so they opt to remove it all with those who so desire it.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 56	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:04:00 - [6] - Quote King Kobrah wrote: LOL CCP SCREWED OVER CONSUMERS BY NOT HONORING THEIR TERMS OF PURCHASE THEY SURE SHOWED US OP XDDDDddddD111!!@!@1 LE EPIK FAEC seriously, i think a june bug could outscore you on an IQ test.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2682	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:12:00 - [7] - Quote The deal we were offered included a full credit of Merc Pack contents on commercial reset, NOT contingent on a reset happening at that time, and NOT conditional on us accepting an individual reset of our characters. That was also defined as THE ONLY OPTION FOR A REFUND. What we're being offered is definitely NOT what was agreed to by both the customers and CCP. So, no, CCP didn't "cave" to our demands. And yes they should have. There are plenty of ACTUALLY fair ways to honour the agreement. There are even a whole bunch of great options that are "fair" on the late arrivals who chose not to spend a cent, or the early adopters who decided to play for free and got into closed beta by signing up instead of providing monetary support on top of their time testing the game. EDIT: And I'm not sure how it's "fair" to retroactively change the conditions agreed to on people who were generous enough to pay CCP money in advance on a promise of some good gear while the game is still in close beta and not even 100% guaranteed to make it to open beta, let alone release.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 99	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:26:00 - [8] - Quote Fair doesn't mean feasible to implement.
Phoenix Arakyd Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:28:00 - [9] - Quote scrubby sycophants
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2682	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:35:00 - [10] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Fair doesn't mean feasible to implement. And easy to implement doesn't necessarily mean legal. Your point?

Jin Robot Polar Gooks 390	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:40:00 - [11] - Quote Why is this such a big deal? I bought a Merc pack and dont really care.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2682	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:47:00 - [12] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Why is this such a big deal? I bought a Merc pack and dont really care. It's a big deal because CCP aren't giving customers the full product they agreed to give us for our purchase. If this goes through as-is, it will basically have no worse result for me than if they fix things the way I'm asking for them to be fixed. I'm asking because CCP aren't holding themselves to the terms of their own agreement.
Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:48:00 - [13] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: The deal we were offered included a full credit of Merc Pack contents on commercial reset, NOT contingent on a reset happening at that time, and NOT conditional on us accepting an individual reset of our characters. That was also defined as THE ONLY OPTION FOR A REFUND. What we're being offered is definitely NOT what was agreed to by both the customers and CCP. So, no, CCP didn't "cave" to our demands. And yes they should have. There are plenty of ACTUALLY fair ways to honour the agreement. There are even a whole bunch of great options that are "fair" on the late arrivals who chose not to spend a cent, or the early adopters who decided to play for free and got into closed beta by signing up instead of providing monetary support on top of their time testing the game. EDIT: And I'm not sure how it's "fair" to retroactively change the conditions agreed to on people who were generous enough to pay CCP money in advance on a promise of some good gear while the game is still in close beta and not even 100% guaranteed to make it to open beta, let alone release. Typical CCP to be honest. They are just too grubby to ever get my dollar. Just make sure you tell everyone you know.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 173	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:07:00 - [14] - Quote Ahahahahah. CCP slapped in the face everyone who chose to support their product and believe their words. They charged all us losers money to play Beta and then tossed a penalty that makes getting Merc pack back on full release not a feasible option. So funny how I believed that giving them money during a BETA would be appreciated by the complany. Bwahahah this is New Eden - everything goes, get used to it suckas! Love this Icelandic version of Communism!
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 399	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:26:00 - [15] - Quote @Ludvig Enraga, hmm. They didn't charge anyone for access to the Beta. Did someone scam you, Ludvig? Beta users were free to purchase the Merc Packs or not. I know many players that have never spent anything on the game as well as some that have spent a sizable amount. Near the end of the closed Beta Sony PS+ members were given Beta Keys for free. I got mine elsewhere many months before that and it was free as well. There wasn't even a Merc Pack available to buy when I started. The terms of service from Sony PS Store are clear. As is the End User Agreement. The Legal claims are being made by persons that speak as if they have no experience with the law nor the legal system. IANAL should be the standard disclaimer on these topics. The definition of the refund could have been clearer but first you have to realize that a character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. We have worked to get the SP and I don't want to give it back to just restart a cheap Merc Pack. I believe that this is a reasonable solution and indeed is the only solution that would satisfy all. Some will still be unhappy but they will have their chance to take the offer or not.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2685	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:38:00 - [16] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: @Ludvig Enraga, hmm. They didn't charge anyone for access to the Beta. Did someone scam you, Ludvig? Beta users were free to purchase the Merc Packs or not. I know many players that have never spent anything on the game as well as some that have spent a sizable amount. Near the end of the closed Beta Sony PS+ members were given Beta Keys for free. I got mine elsewhere many months before that and it was free as well. There wasn't even a Merc Pack available to buy when I started. The terms of service from Sony PS Store are clear. As is the End User Agreement. The Legal claims are being made by persons that speak as if they have no experience with the law nor the legal system. IANAL should be the standard disclaimer on these topics. The definition of the refund could have been clearer but first you have to realize that a character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. We have worked to get the SP and I don't want to give it back to just restart a cheap Merc Pack. I believe that this is a reasonable solution and indeed is the only solution that would satisfy all. Some will still be unhappy but they will have their chance to take the offer or not. A character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. A character reset for Merc Pack users will force many who have already demonstrated a willingness to pay for the game to stop doing so. I have one Merc Pack, and I bought one for my girlfriend when she showed interest in DUST. After Uprising shows up, I've got some money I'm saving in case there's a different deal from the Merc Pack, because I want to see what options there are coming into release. If CCP decide to run with the current "offer" they're going with, I'm not losing enough to care. I'm just going to spend that money elsewhere. If they actually offer something valid within the context of what they agreed to give Merc Pack customers, then I'll definitely be spending more of my money immediately, as well as being open to spending even more in future.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 173	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:40:00 - [17] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: @Ludvig Enraga, hmm. They didn't charge anyone for access to the Beta. Did someone scam you, Ludvig? Beta users were free to purchase the Merc Packs or not. I know many players that have never spent anything on the game as well as some that have spent a sizable amount. Near the end of the closed Beta Sony PS+ members were given Beta Keys for free. I got mine elsewhere many months before that and it was free as well. There wasn't even a Merc Pack available to buy when I started. The terms of service from Sony PS Store are clear. As is the End User Agreement. The Legal claims are being made by persons that speak as if they have no experience with the law nor the legal system. IANAL should be the standard disclaimer on these topics. The definition of the refund could have been clearer but first you have to realize that a character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. We have worked to get the SP and I don't want to give it back to just restart a cheap Merc Pack. I believe that this is a reasonable solution and indeed is the only solution that would satisfy all. Some will still be unhappy but they will have their chance to take the offer or not. Yes, they sold me a Merc pack, which I chose to buy thinking that I was buying something ultimately for the final release, that I used up during a Beta. So yeah they charged me money for a beta experience. To address your second point. To avoid a complete reset on release for everyone, which, yes, would have been a bad move on their part, they should have let ppl have their SP and give a second Merc pack to everyone who bought one. Is it getting 2 for 1? Yes, it is. But it's not any different than going to a grocery store and geting 2 for the price of 1 boxes of cereal. Instead what CCP has done is they promised something, took money for it and then chose not to deliver. Now, this is a scam.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 173	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:43:00 - [18] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: @Ludvig Enraga, hmm. They didn't charge anyone for access to the Beta. Did someone scam you, Ludvig? Beta users were free to purchase the Merc Packs or not. I know many players that have never spent anything on the game as well as some that have spent a sizable amount. Near the end of the closed Beta Sony PS+ members were given Beta Keys for free. I got mine elsewhere many months before that and it was free as well. There wasn't even a Merc Pack available to buy when I started. The terms of service from Sony PS Store are clear. As is the End User Agreement. The Legal claims are being made by persons that speak as if they have no experience with the law nor the legal system. IANAL should be the standard disclaimer on these topics. The definition of the refund could have been clearer but first you have to realize that a character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. We have worked to get the SP and I don't want to give it back to just restart a cheap Merc Pack. I believe that this is a reasonable solution and indeed is the only solution that would satisfy all. Some will still be unhappy but they will have their chance to take the offer or not. A character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. A character reset for Merc Pack users will force many who have already demonstrated a willingness to pay for the game to stop doing so. I have one Merc Pack, and I bought one for my girlfriend when she showed interest in DUST. After Uprising shows up, I've got some money I'm saving in case there's a different deal from the Merc Pack, because I want to see what options there are coming into release. If CCP decide to run with the current "offer" they're going with, I'm not losing enough to care. I'm just going to spend that money elsewhere. If they actually offer something valid within the context of what they agreed to give Merc Pack customers, then I'll definitely be spending more of my money immediately, as well as being open to spending even more in future. Same here. I don't care about loss of money per se especially since I did get some use of it. What I do care about is that as it stands CCP broke their promise to me betraying my trust. It's not the formal value of the Merc pack that I care about, it's the principle - they are not allowed to treat their customers like this.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 647	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:59:00 - [19] - Quote Nice to see they went with my suggested solution to the issue. ;)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2685	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:10:00 - [20] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Nice to see they went with my suggested solution to the issue. ;) Nice to see they ignored the legitimate complaints about your suggestion and haven't provided a solution that's remotely fair on people who actually read what we were purchasing.

Jimbeezy Imperfects Negative-Feedback 239	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:23:00 - [21] - Quote For this to be done right there needs to be a reset at commercial release and all merc packs and aur refunded.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2687	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:28:00 - [22] - Quote Jimbeezy wrote: For this to be done right there needs to be a reset at commercial release and all merc packs and aur refunded. Why? For this to be done right, CCP need to pay attention to what they agreed to when they sold the pre-open beta Merc Packs. There's no need for a full reset. There are plenty of other valid options.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 145	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:37:00 - [23] - Quote They should have just replaced the booster and Aur with a nunch of useless neo suits Still a **** move, but that would have been funnier.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2687	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:43:00 - [24] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: They should have just replaced the booster and Aur with a nunch of useless neo suits Still a **** move, but that would have been funnier. This I can agree with. It would be pretty stupid, but also funny. Even moreso if they replaced the entire contents of the Merc Pack with Quafe suits. Nothing but pink Scout suits. No Shotguns, no Dragonfly/Toxin, no AUR, no Booster, only Quafe suits. THOUSANDS of them. ALL THE QUAFE.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 648	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:54:00 - [25] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Nice to see they went with my suggested solution to the issue. ;) Nice to see they ignored the legitimate complaints about your suggestion and haven't provided a solution that's remotely fair on people who actually read what we were purchasing. Buckets and buckets of tears~
Mat Auty R.I.f.t Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:55:00 - [26] - Quote Having brought 8 merc packs 4 on each character for the 30 day boosters as it was better value for money than buying a bunch of 7 days. I really see no reason for a refund i've benefited i have almost 11 mill sp where others have 7 that's my headstart and reward for investing early wish everyone would just stop complaining i personally wont be clicking the i wanna refund button be downright stupid too If all you ppl complaining carry on you might just find they do it anyway regardless so shush
Rurouni Kenshin Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:00:00 - [27] - Quote Bought my merc packs and used them. I'm not greedy and really they are chump change for me. I will be earning more than what I will save if I just put the time I would use complaining into real life stuff. So for all those illiterates, who are too slow to comprehend, those who just are too greedy for their own good and/or just plain stupid. SUCK IT! CCP didn't pull one on you, you pulled one on your entitled self.
Jimbeezy Imperfects Negative-Feedback 240	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:07:00 - [28] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jimbeezy wrote: For this to be done right there needs to be a reset at commercial release and all merc packs and aur refunded. Why? For this to be done right, CCP need to pay attention to what they agreed to when they sold the pre-open beta Merc Packs. There's no need for a full reset. There are plenty of other valid options. Because I shouldn't have to choose between my sp and aur/merc parks that i bought during the beta. It clearly said I would get it ALL back at commercial release. The best way is to reset the game and refund everybody. And another reason is because the game was in beta and 98% of the time when beta's ends everything is reset. Simple
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2693	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:12:00 - [29] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Nice to see they went with my suggested solution to the issue. ;) Nice to see they ignored the legitimate complaints about your suggestion and haven't provided a solution that's remotely fair on people who actually read what we were purchasing. Buckets and buckets of tears~ Yes. Tears. Because this will definitely have a significant effect on me. All it means is that I have a bit more money to spare for other things when release happens instead of having more stuff in DUST. And next time I can afford to spend some money on something, it won't be DUST. And the time after that, it probably still won't be DUST. And when I next decide to buy my girlfriend something fun, it won't be related to DUST. It's a change, but it's not a change that hurts me in any way. I have plenty of time to spare pointing out holes in people's logic online. I enjoy it, and if I didn't, I wouldn't still be here. Rurouni Kenshin wrote: Bought my merc packs and used them. I'm not greedy and really they are chump change for me. I will be earning more than what I will save if I just put the time I would use complaining into real life stuff. So for all those illiterates, who are too slow to comprehend, those who just are too greedy for their own good and/or just plain stupid. SUCK IT! CCP didn't pull one on you, you pulled one on your entitled self. I can read just fine. Can you? Here's what CCP agreed to, feel free to read it and try REALLY hard to actually understand all the words this time: Quote: *IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2693	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:17:00 - [30] - Quote Jimbeezy wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jimbeezy wrote: For this to be done right there needs to be a reset at commercial release and all merc packs and aur refunded. Why? For this to be done right, CCP need to pay attention to what they agreed to when they sold the pre-open beta Merc Packs. There's no need for a full reset. There are plenty of other valid options. Because I shouldn't have to choose between my sp and aur/merc parks that i bought during the beta. It clearly said I would get it ALL back at commercial release. The best way is to reset the game and refund everybody. And another reason is because the game was in beta and 98% of the time when beta's ends everything is reset. Simple So you're saying that you want them to wipe all the SP you've earned, when there are valid options that give Merc Pack customers a fair deal WITHOUT punishing everyone after we were all promised "no more resets"? What part of "THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER VALID OPTIONS" did you not understand? I want CCP to be held to the agreement they made with their customers. It won't have a significant impact on me either way. If they stick to doing it wrong, I'll get all the AUR I spend on BPOs back, and then some (because I bought a lot before the price hike). If they do it right, I'll get pretty much exactly the same result. I want them to do it right because it's the right thing to do, NOT because it will have a significant effect on my personal situation.



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