This actually looks alot like what they are doing, other then the open world stuff. Those aren't bad ideas. I'm not sure what the "technical" limitations are they say is preventing them from doing the open world stuff. If they can't do open world I would still like to see the skirmishes against the bugs as something to do on your planet while you wait around, maybe especially something you can instantly drop out of when its time for a corp/district match.

If technical limitations were to prevent this, then Defiance, RIFT, and so many others wouldn't be possible...

And Defiance is Open World on PS3, PC, and Xbox.

Behind the Lines (Covert Raids and Tactics)

One of the best things about an Open World is the fact that you can do your 'prep' work, or utilise guerrilla tactics to weaken your enemy's forces.

Raiding into a hostile District without an MCC, maybe just a limited Clone Unit (20 Clones or so) inserted by stealth, could allow you and a squad to wreak havoc on the infrastructure, steal supplies, or simply fight them on and off in hit-and-fade tactics. This would become an art form, that could precede any major invasion (or just be used to grief larger corporations when you haven't got the manpower to challenge them directly.)


Clone Reanimation Units (The Ins and Outs)

Clone Reanimation Units, the name says it all doesn't it? You die, your mind is transferred to one fo these, and then placed into a new clone. Brilliant.

What, however, does this serve at the moment? Not much beyond a permanent Drop Uplink. So instead, to make these valuyable assets worth taking , holding, and defending, I proporse that they have a stock of clones in them. Say 50 Clones. (Preloaded when Player-Owned).

So when you land on a battlefield, and your enemy has a CRU deployed, they get a bonus 50 Clones to their clone count. A place to spawn, and each time they spawn there, it takes away from that unit's clone count.

2 options stand before you. You can Destroy this CRU, denying them a spawn location, and reducing their clones by the same amount as what is storted in there, or, you can capture it, making it a spawn point of your own, and adding those clones to your own stock.

If technical limitations were to prevent this, then Defiance, RIFT, and so many others wouldn't be possible...

And Defiance is Open World on PS3, PC, and Xbox.

The limits are in the differences of the games, a open world game with destructible world has been made and games like defiance and rift are open world games that are mmo with not much variety in the weapons. i don't think we have the computing power to combined the two and have a solid game. your suggestions are good but they would limit the differences in the maps and i do not see having a sim city/defiance/red faction guerrilla coming out for a few years if ever.

If every single terran planet suitable for dust was made completely open world, then it would be a hell of a lot bigger than any of those games you mentioned.

I hope Singularity doesn't explode if this is implemented. Maybe it could freeze districts with no players inside?

Districts with no players on them would drop put of existence. Love this idea. Player count would have to be bumped drastically, and for that we will probably have to wait for the ps4, but it will be well worth the waiting.

Only each District, broken up across a Planet.

Each District would amount to a map 25 times bigger than what we have now. Then link to other Districts via Gates that essentially transport you off one grid, onto another. Similar in effect to what EVE Online does, but based on a FPS MMO Model.

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/283303/Simple_District_Map.png
Above is a poor attempt at quickly whipping up a simple design overlay of what I am trying to say. It's done is MS Paint, and done very quickly and crudely, so forgive the child-like scribble.

I'll be creating a much more impactful version at a later date.

[Link Added in OPs.]

Sounds like a plan to me, but EVE's systems are mostly empty space, they can do all kinds of computer sorcery to limit how hard wearing that is on the hardware (get it!?).

DUST, I imagine is a very different beast, you have to have ground to walk on, buildings to explore and I'm certain that these two things would make the game ridiculously huge. Unless you propose that we download every new map we come across?

I like these ideas.

Also, there are no real technical limitations. Check the map out in full sometime when you're in a game. The area that isn't redlined is already there in game when you drop. It's already loaded or streamed as part of the Unreal engine functionality.

Just removing the redline on the existing maps, that we're already playing on, would increase the area vastly and provide that open world feel.

This actually looks alot like what they are doing, other then the open world stuff. Those aren't bad ideas. I'm not sure what the "technical" limitations are they say is preventing them from doing the open world stuff. If they can't do open world I would still like to see the skirmishes against the bugs as something to do on your planet while you wait around, maybe especially something you can instantly drop out of when its time for a corp/district match.

Also, there are no real technical limitations. Check the map out in full sometime when you're in a game. The area that isn't redlined is already there in game when you drop. It's already loaded or streamed as part of the Unreal engine functionality.

Just removing the redline on the existing maps, that we're already playing on, would increase the area vastly and provide that open world feel.

I had someone PM me in game (DUST-side and EVE-side) about how would you initiate a conflict, such as a Planetary Conquest without an instanced 'declaration and an MCC'.

Though I'd believed I'd covered this in the topic, I'll reiterate what I believe are your options with the pros and cons under this OPEN WORLD system.

Option One - The Interplanetary Assault
You have your War Barge (Controlled EVE-side, that houses 4 MCCs, 1200 Clones, and a Nano-Factory to create Vehicles from BPCs, thus.. if you have BPCs, you can call down as many vehicles as you like.

Your EVE Pilot puts the War Barge in position over District 7 - Planet V, Hrober and locks his 'deployment'. This unlocks an EVE-side interface that allows him to launch his loaded MCCs, with designated Clone Resources, to any District on that planet from orbit. They will sit there, however, until someone designated as being able to command those ships from your corporation / alliance comes and enters them.

Then your forces can utilise the resources of the MCCs and the War Barges to wage campaigns on the Districts.


Option Two - The Gate Attack
You move your MCC through a Gate from a friendly, or neutral District (loaded with Clones and Resources to manufacture a limited number of Equipment Stes and Vehicles) to a Hostile District. Your soldiers can then use the 'Mobile TacNet' on the MCC to spawn there and wage their campaign.

Option Three - Low-level Insertion
Cheapest of the three options presented here as examples, the Low-Level Insertion takes your force from one district to another. Until you deploy (or capture) one, you have no Clone Respawn Site and any vehicles, equipment you have, cannot be simply 'called in' since you're lacking Control Support.

These are just some of the options you can have. As well as mixing them up, buy perhaps deploying one MCC from your War Barge on a District weakened by your Guerilla Forces who used a low-level insertion to get in and wreak havoc.


Now under this system, being open world, it would be possible for multiple corporations, multiple MCCs, and multiple alliances to assault a District. However, to prevent the 'steamrolling' that would generally occur, the District Command Centres (Bases) will heavily favour the defenders.

Not only with the ability to 'place' them wherever you want on the District, along with the ability to shape the landscape either directly, or via destructible barriers, you can build a heavily defensive position that can be partially automated so that you are not immediately defencless if all your people are not online. Including a reinforcement timer for each 'layer' of defences.

Base Shields go down, wait minimum of 24 hours before you can assault and capture the Command Centre in the base.

Going to bump my own thread here. Since this stuff is gold in more people's opinions than my own, and I've been asked to bump it by multiple parties!

Open World!

I had an idea that is a remix of your second option. In order to travel to an enemy's planet through a gate, you would need to get there by Warbarge, conquer a district, and install one. What do you think?

What does Open World Solve?

This is the question many will ask. What does making this game Open World actually solve?

It solves the dilemma of disadvantageous ground or starting points. You've built your base where you want it, your opponent can attack from where they choose. Ground, terrain, and your knowledge of the district become a tactical weapon.

It also solves the problem of redline sniping and tank sniping. The Gates can be camped, much like in EVE, but a no-fire zone (or protected turret area) around the gate can prevent constant camping (until null sec planets) as well as stealth and subtlety. But there's no 'redline' per se to snipe from on any battle.

It fixes cover and terrain. You have much more to use as cover to eliminate that pesky sniper. Or get in close to those tanks. You can minefield 'easily' traversed areas to make them a little less 'easy' to traverse. The name of the game become tactical. And tactics are what we should be aiming for. This is a great upcoming game, based in one of the largest Sandbox games in the world.

Some of that should be in DUST, as it already exists in games less developed background wise.

DUST should be open world, as EVE is open world.

Persistent Destruction!

If you blow a hole in the ground, that hole should stay there... is the basic principal, until you come along and fill it.

This may be limited by technology to an extent, but one this ANY persistent world game lacks at the moment is true, long-term destruction as a consequence.

Anything that is destructible, is replaced next time round. (Except player Assets). Building still stand after being hit from orbit, and mountains subjected to barrages of Rail gun Slugs and Missile Bombardments are left unmarked. Persistent Destruction is key to immersion.

And if anyone has read most of my posts, immersion is what I aim to get with almost every one of my ideas, and the ideas I support.

If you build a mine, harvest resources from a forming network of underground tunnels, then blow that mine up into a massive crater, those tunnels will still be there, as will the crater, filled with mining equipment debris, and whatever else was used there.

If you drop an orbital on an unshielded building (Shields being a Base-level Infrastructure to protect your own base of operations from orbital strike.) That building shouldn't be standing afterwards.

The more collateral damage that is inflicted, the more it will cost to repair it. So while bringing down a cliff to block a road is a great tactical move, the cost to clear the road for use afterwards could be tremendous.


Possible Random Encounters / Effects
- Sansha Raid
The Sansha are coming to steal away the populace on the planet, and cyborg soldiers / harvesters / gatherers are attacking a random settlement. The objective is to eliminate the Sansha 'control' ship or eliminate the enemy before they make off with their hostages.
> Success = ISK, SP, Salvage / Loot
> Failure = The District Loses some of it's potency (1-5% dependant on size of raid).

- Rogue Drone Infestation
Rogue Drones have adapted to begin creating hives on planets now, and these technological terrors are burrowing into the ground, collecting resources, and expanding themselves outwards. A never-ending plague that falls from the stars. Your objective is to eliminate every single Rogue Drone, or their Queen / Overseer in the hive.
> Success = ISK, SP Salvage / Loot
> Failure = Progressive expansion and loss of income. As the Hive grows, it draws more resources, kills more populace, and stops machinery working. Each day it's left unchecked, the District gains a proportionate loss of income. 1%, 2%, 4%... constantly growing, so that in left unchecked, it can swallow up the entire District's income and remain so until the Rogue Drone Infestation is purged.

These could occur randomly, or in conjunction with EVE Online Events. Such as Sansha Incursions making each District in Affected Systems gain a Sansha Raid. Rogue Drone Infestations could be devastating, so could happen frequently, spread across many planets and Districts.

I may not like that damn missile tanks of your but I cannot deny that if you were creative lead designer of Dust I would want to play your game.

This is what Dust needs to become at some point, not 5 years from now, maybe 1 or 2 but it need this immersion you are talking about. Open world maps where corps can we constantly working and networking with one another, where each district is like a player world and you are the Red Spirit Invaders coming to sabotage, kill, and other wise steal this land and it resources away, let stealthy player infiltrate, damage, and wreak mayhem upon my zones.

Let corp leaders terra form their districts, let them create autonomous mine complexes, let them forge gates to travel to ther districts, let random Drone and Incursion events randomly be generated, let these successes and failures have meaningful consequences, let your game modes be built into the district.

This is what Dust needs to be.

I like the theatrics. Tell me, have you ever been in show business, Jackal?

Adding to this idea, just as I have thought about it.

I wrestled with the ideas of HOW to put Industry into this game.

Here's my take on it at a PC level (will have to involve something different or more manual at the non-PC level)

Industry in DUST 514 - OPEN WORLD

Breaking up the districts into separate controllable installations, (over 50% of which have to be controlled to gain 'control' over said District), gives us an opportunity for Corporations to hold facilities like Mines, Production Facilities, Weapons Factories, and more. Each is a logistical line that requires movement of raw materials to a refinery, then onto whichever plant requires the materials.

See Planetary Interaction in EVE.

This is an automated process that yields set amounts of goods. But how does this factor into warfare? The short answer is this.

Supply Chain Disruption.

Each 'load' of goods transported from one facility to another is a convoy. Truck, monorail, aircraft etc. Each is NPC controlled and flies it's route automatically every time it's required. It has some intelligence, but is practically defenseless. Now imagine, you sneak in, and start blowing up these convoys. Shooting down supply aircraft, and starving your enemy of resources needed to keep his army equipped.

Or conversely, blowing up their Armory / Vehicle Hangars, eliminating the threat of said weapons before they're even put into the field.

You could!

Possibilities multiply with Open World... with closed world 'instance' style... gameplay becomes dull, lifeless...

I think everyone knows how much I want DUST to succeed, and my belief is that only through Open World can DUST really become the MMOFPS that most of us envision.

Open world is definately the future.

regardless of how its implimented.

In truth I just say the words "open world" and instantly agreed with you.

Maybe we could get together with someone who has lots if programming experience and hash out a viable model for how would work? Do some of the relatively mundane planning FOR CCP, since... well, let's face it. They're slow.

Yeah you mentioned taking 50% of structures to cap a district.

One idea I have had for a while is something called a Stability Metre which represents the defenders control over their territory, attacks, losses, sabotage would destabilise the region meaning enemies could move in and capture it while, districts not under attack, or with heavy clone counts in them would become more stable and thus harder to take.....so therefore thinking about clone placement, expanding clone number when taking more districts, and working on ensuring that such sabotage and losses don't occur becomes much more strategic.

Well written OP, sounds like many of the ideas I've been saying since closed beta, keep on with the good work. I'm kind of disappointed it wasn't controversial at all like you suggested it would be.

Yeah this NEEDS to happen soon. I'm surprised there isn't a blue tag on this yet, it's been here a while. CCP get your ass in gear and make this happen