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The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
85
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just had a discussion about New Eden being real or not real with a co worker. I said that New Eden is real but not tangible and she says it is just a game. Yes, we play a game and it is not a possession that you can touch but does that make it less real? All of our actions in New Eden have a connection to everyone who plays and every item is unique. There may be copies but there is only that one item and if it is destroyed it is gone forever. I asked her if it is more or less real than a digital song, book, movie or even bank account. Paper money only has value if you believe it has value and other people agree. So, do we fly fake internet spaceships and shoot fake internet tanks or are they real items that have real value? |
Chemical Death
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
11
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bacon is real |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
85
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
And Delicious too. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2544
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
When you consider the various cultures where the "real" world is considered to be a dream and that we only get to see the actual real world after death, it's possible to argue that according to those belief systems, New Eden is at least as real as the world in which I'm in front of a laptop typing this post. Possibly moreso. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
594
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
The confusion arrises from not properly defining the meaning of the word 'real' in each case. |
Warpfiend Thanos
Destruction Initiative Enterprise
14
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pay with a credit card and ask yourself if it's real. You don't carry any money, you don't give them money, you might not own the money you're paying with and yet they are willing to give you service or goods for it.
Then ask yourself if money is real. It is simply a promisary note that someone is willing to honor as a promise of services rendered in the future for it. HELL! Exchange it for a different currency and ask yourself why the promise deteriorates when you cross an imaginary border of sovereignty!
Using a fake space ship or gun to intersact with people across the globe doesn't seem so unreal to in these terms. You share a currency which you exchange for goods or services and you have to earn that money with real actions you perform. You can even exchange this currency for other currencies used in "real life" such as USD or EUR.
Iceland has 320.000 people using ISK to barter with. New Eden has over 500.000 people doing the same, which one has a more real economy? |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
109
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
In my opinion, since reality is based on the subjective perception (senses) all realities are constructed within the mind, whilst we share some commonalities my reality is vastly different to anyone elses. Reality is an illusion, much like free will, and is a figment of my imagination. |
Paladin Sas
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
8
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Posted - 2013.04.17 10:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
New Eden is only as real as the people who believe in it. As long as we pour our hearts and souls into her, she exists. |
Warpfiend Thanos
Destruction Initiative Enterprise
14
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Posted - 2013.04.17 11:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:In my opinion, since reality is based on the subjective perception (senses) all realities are constructed within the mind, whilst we share some commonalities my reality is vastly different to anyone elses. Reality is an illusion, much like free will, and is a figment of my imagination.
A true constructionist like myself  |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
86
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Posted - 2013.04.17 11:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
New Eden is a labor of love and love is real. Do we work in New Eden because we love it or do we love New Eden because of the work we do? I say New Eden is real, the changes we see are real, the time we put in is real and the friendship we make are real. We may pilot 1s and 0s in the form of a weapon but they are our 1s and 0s and they are real. |
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Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
244
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Posted - 2013.04.17 12:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
No, New Eden is not real. Neither are these forums and neither are you.
We are all rays of light in the memory dust of the great snail turtle Shebulba as it travels the light regions of Utmosa on its venture to Watala for the tilling of the star fragments.
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Aseair
Sniper Corps
0
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Posted - 2013.04.17 12:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
This right here. This entire discussion. This entire concept laid out in front of me on this forum. This is exactly why I keep playing EVE and Dust. I cannot weigh in, because I'm not sure where I stand on this issue as of yet, but thank you all for giving my brain something to mull over for the next few weeks as I use this thread to explain to people why video games can be considered art. Fly safe, shoot first, and keep your clones stocked. 07 |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control
Otherworld Empire Productions
292
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Posted - 2013.04.17 12:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's a real enough part of my life that I chose to memorialize it on my arm at least.
/c |
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Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
60
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Posted - 2013.04.17 12:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 Good question  and "like" to all who participate in this discussion
If you define "real" by the present focus of your consciousness then anything that you can focus your attention on is real...
Daedric Lothar wrote:No, New Eden is not real. Neither are these forums and neither are you.
We are all rays of light in the memory dust of the great snail turtle Shebulba as it travels the light regions of Utmosa on its venture to Watala for the tilling of the star fragments.
Is The Shebulba real? You named it. You have defined it. You have brought it to life. So it is real. If so then New Eden is real too...
I'am with others on reality being actually created by Us through the medium of our consciousness. Just be aware of other beings' creations that might not be coherent with yours. This results in some interference ripples and tensions.
Any coherent creations amplify each other giving rise to material phenomenons...
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
499
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Posted - 2013.04.17 12:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Down this path lies madness. Don't stray too far into your mind, my friends. Our brain is a untameable beast which we have merely trapped in a cave of bone. It can't get out and engulf us, but if we go in... |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
245
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Posted - 2013.04.17 12:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aseair wrote:This right here. This entire discussion. This entire concept laid out in front of me on this forum. This is exactly why I keep playing EVE and Dust. I cannot weigh in, because I'm not sure where I stand on this issue as of yet, but thank you all for giving my brain something to mull over for the next few weeks as I use this thread to explain to people why video games can be considered art. Fly safe, shoot first, and keep your clones stocked. 07
Proof of fact, this person was inspired to mull over this thread for weeks and then use the nonsense here to convince other people of the idea of gaming as art. Truly we are all nothing more then the burnt out dreams of hallucinogenic inspired coma patients locked in the lightless depths of some clinic having their brain goo extracted for clinical trails on post partum depression. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
60
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Down this path lies madness. Don't stray too far into your mind, my friends. Our brain is a untameable beast which we have merely trapped in a cave of bone. It can't get out and engulf us, but if we go in... Go in... I dare you
...chicken |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
1190
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
As long as people give value to something, it's real as far as I'm concerned. But we also have to accept that everyone has different ideas about what "real" means, and that they won't always agree with your own views, but that doesn't mean their own views or yours are wrong, everyone's view on what's "real" is correct to them. |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
113
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:Down this path lies madness. Don't stray too far into your mind, my friends. Our brain is a untameable beast which we have merely trapped in a cave of bone. It can't get out and engulf us, but if we go in... Go in... I dare you ...chicken
I keep many of my doors firmly locked, because the things I hide behind them are grotesque beyond imagination.
GÇ£Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
62
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:Down this path lies madness. Don't stray too far into your mind, my friends. Our brain is a untameable beast which we have merely trapped in a cave of bone. It can't get out and engulf us, but if we go in... Go in... I dare you ...chicken I keep many of my doors firmly locked, because the things I hide behind them are grotesque beyond imagination. GÇ£Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
Fear not Uncle Google knows everything 
"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming"
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ph'nglui_mglw'nafh_Cthulhu_R'lyeh_wgah'nagl_fhtagn
BTW: dreams are real too... All of them... |
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Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
114
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:
BTW: dreams are real too... All of them...
Oh God! Oh God!OhGod!OhGodOhGodOhGodOhGod!
*runs away screaming* |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2185
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
It will be real
The Singularity is nearly upon us |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2548
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aseair wrote:as I use this thread to explain to people why video games can be considered art.
This role is better served by Journey.
If you are a responsible PS3 owner, you should already have a copy of the game. If not, you're doing it wrong. |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
114
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aseair wrote:as I use this thread to explain to people why video games can be considered art. This role is better served by Journey. If you are a responsible PS3 owner, you should already have a copy of the game. If not, you're doing it wrong.
you sir get a +1
Journey made me cry when figured out what happened at the end. Only Ico and Shadow of the Colossus had a bigger impact.
God Damn, those games.... *sniff* |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
62
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aseair wrote:as I use this thread to explain to people why video games can be considered art. This role is better served by Journey. If you are a responsible PS3 owner, you should already have a copy of the game. If not, you're doing it wrong. you sir get a +1 Journey made me cry when figured out what happened at the end. Only Ico and Shadow of the Colossus had a bigger impact. God Damn, those games.... *sniff* Played it with my daughter. We both cried at the end... |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
476
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote: I just had a discussion about New Eden being real or not real with a co worker. I said that New Eden is real but not tangible and she says it is just a game. Yes, we play a game and it is not a possession that you can touch but does that make it less real? All of our actions in New Eden have a connection to everyone who plays and every item is unique. There may be copies but there is only that one item and if it is destroyed it is gone forever. I asked her if it is more or less real than a digital song, book, movie or even bank account. Paper money only has value if you believe it has value and other people agree. So, do we fly fake internet spaceships and shoot fake internet tanks or are they real items that have real value? Is society and culture real? These things are also not tangible but I think the archeology and history of our race shows both the reality and power of these things. Without society and culture we are actually a very weak competitor.
To approach the question from a different angle, is money real? We all know you can't eat money, and that ultimately it holds no intrinsic value, other than the media it's stored on. But on the other hand, if your friend wanted to aquire a Titan in New Eden, she would have to either earn one in game through her labour, or buy one illegally IRL with cold hard cash - again requiring her labour, thousands of dollars worth of her labour.
Does your friend buy other virtual goods? At the risk of stereotyping, let's consider a Gucci purse. A physically equivalent purse can be bought for considerably less cash. What she is paying for is a virtual commodity - social prestige associated with Gucci. Social prestige is not trivial - for us hairless-ape communal-pack types it determines how much the rest of the pack will defend us, it determines when and if we eat in tough times, it determines our access to mates, etc. Social prestige can and very often has meant life and death - so is it real?
This brings up an interesting point. If New Eden is real, if it is a real society and a real culture as I'm implying with my leading questions, then the natural conclusion is that like all other societies and cultures, New Eden has real power.
For what shall we use this power, I wonder? |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
62
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:
BTW: dreams are real too... All of them...
Oh God! Oh God!OhGod!OhGodOhGodOhGodOhGod! *runs away screaming* Here, drink a glass of chest wound. It will bring you back
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Chest_Wound |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
247
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: Played it with my daughter. We both cried at the end...
I haven't played that game.. I'm out of here before one of you #%@%@ spoils it. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
476
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:Down this path lies madness. Don't stray too far into your mind, my friends. Our brain is a untameable beast which we have merely trapped in a cave of bone. It can't get out and engulf us, but if we go in... Go in... I dare you ...chicken I keep many of my doors firmly locked, because the things I hide behind them are grotesque beyond imagination. GÇ£Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
+1 for recognizing that the gibbering madness that waits in the non-euclidean interstices is never far away. ;)
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Sleepy Zan
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2186
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
what is real?  |
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