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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
476
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Love that graphic, Sleepy. I'd say we're just entering the 5th epoch.
The best presentation I've ever seen of this progression is in Bryan Reynolds'/Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire.
Working through the technology tree to 'Transcendence' is a very inerestin intellectual journey, I'd actually love to see Bryan Reynolds have some influence on New Eden, particularly the economic ground game. |
Beld Errmon
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
574
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bill Hicks wrote: Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration GÇô that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3493
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Posted - 2013.04.17 16:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm surprised nobody brought this up, after all it was a meme in eve for a longer while than military experts.
"Eve is Real" |
Cosorvin
DUST University
Ivy League
71
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Posted - 2013.04.17 16:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Is their anyone here who is a realist? becauuuuse this thread is beginning to make me worried.
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Cosorvin
DUST University
Ivy League
71
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Posted - 2013.04.17 16:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:Kamiya Musume wrote:Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:Down this path lies madness. Don't stray too far into your mind, my friends. Our brain is a untameable beast which we have merely trapped in a cave of bone. It can't get out and engulf us, but if we go in... Go in... I dare you  ...chicken  I keep many of my doors firmly locked, because the things I hide behind them are grotesque beyond imagination. GÇ£Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Fear not Uncle Google knows everything  "In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming" http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ph'nglui_mglw'nafh_Cthulhu_R'lyeh_wgah'nagl_fhtagnBTW: dreams are real too... All of them...
I got eaten by a dragon once in one of my dreams...
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Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
62
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Posted - 2013.04.17 16:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cosorvin wrote:(...)I got eaten by a dragon once in one of my dreams...
How does the inside of the dragon taste?
If you want to realy know how New Eden is real ask any CCP employee abot that... They will tell you...
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I'm surprised nobody brought this up, after all it was a meme in eve for a longer while than military experts. "Eve is Real"
Funny... was watching this three hours ago... Synchronicity? |
Thrawn01 Aldeland
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
21
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Posted - 2013.04.17 16:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
No. New Eden is imaginary.
So, being fond of math. I would argue that New Eden is just as real as Imaginary numbers. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
478
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 17:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thrawn01 Aldeland wrote:No. New Eden is imaginary.
So, being fond of math. I would argue that New Eden is just as real as Imaginary numbers.
I'd have to say there's some evidence to support your claim. We know at the very least New Eden is certainly complex..... =P |
Grezkev
The Red Guards
EoN.
188
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Posted - 2013.04.17 17:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote: I just had a discussion about New Eden being real or not real with a co worker. I said that New Eden is real but not tangible and she says it is just a game. Yes, we play a game and it is not a possession that you can touch but does that make it less real? All of our actions in New Eden have a connection to everyone who plays and every item is unique. There may be copies but there is only that one item and if it is destroyed it is gone forever. I asked her if it is more or less real than a digital song, book, movie or even bank account. Paper money only has value if you believe it has value and other people agree. So, do we fly fake internet spaceships and shoot fake internet tanks or are they real items that have real value?
Ahhhhh Philosophy!
Basically sounds like a classical Plato v Aristotle argument. You being Plato.
You're saying New Eden is real because it is a cognitive manifestation in your mind (an experience; you've experienced New Eden in some form....in the same way Plato's prisoners in the cave experienced shadows instead of real objects). Plato used the "allegory of the cave" to explain his argument; a depiction of slaves trapped in a cave and forced to view the shadows of objects as opposed to the objects themselves (we are to assume they are bonded and prevented from moving).
Plato argued that what is in our mind is more real to us than the physical world, simply because our mind is actively *interpreting* the world, rather than experiencing it. Your eyes merely take in light, your ears merely absorb sound waves, and your nose merely smells chemicals. In other words, you're blind and left to experience the world through a "lens"...the lens of your narrow eyes, ears, and nose...all of which we know cannot see the complete light spectrum, hear the complete sound spectrum, nor smell every single chemical.
Aristotle argued that what Plato says is true, we are "slaves to the senses"...but he argues that we ultimately have to play out our realities on a real world. I can believe God exists....you can believe he doesn't. To both of us, the truths are absolute and real. But when we come to discuss the topic together, we come into conflict. Aristotle points out that this existence of "conflict" thus means that the REAL WORLD (the objective experience) is more real than what is in your mind. In this sense, New Eden is *not* real because its "reality" would come into conflict with others who perceive it merely to be a video game.
The money aspect you mention goes a bit deeper into philosophy since Marx was the first major philosopher to try and deduce a purpose for "money" (which he called the "universal equivalent commodity"). |
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits
Atrocitas
11
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Posted - 2013.04.17 20:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
This is going to hurt, but...
Step away from the screen.
Find the nearest door that will allow you access to the sky.
Look around.
Touch stuff.
Now debate the reality of Intergalactic Warbarges and your involvement with them.
And then go find the woman that talked nerdistic (pothead) philosophy with you and make something happen.
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Justin Tymes
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.04.17 20:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnEYHQ9dscY |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
602
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Posted - 2013.04.17 20:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Grezkev wrote:Basically sounds like a classical Plato v Aristotle argument. You being Plato.
Or to put it more briefly, as I did at the start of the thread, it's all a matter of what definition of the word 'real' one decides upon for that particular arguments sake. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
62
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Posted - 2013.04.17 21:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Devs, do You consider New Eden to be real?
To other players. Is something that makes your heart beat quicker, makes you course, makes you plan in advance, makes you adjusting some other activities to one particular activity, makes you skipping classes, makes you absentminded in classes or work, makes you participating in this thread and argue it is not real, is real or not?
Do you argue about you stomach being real? Have you seen it? Have you touched it with your hands? No? But you just know (ok believe others who saw others people stomachs with their eyes) it is there, right? Waiting to be fed...
Well, New Eden waits for you to fed it with your attention... |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
121
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Posted - 2013.04.17 21:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
On Objectivity: If Einstein is correct, and everything is relative, nothing is objective and there are no absolutes. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
364
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Posted - 2013.04.17 23:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
You know why it's real? Because we bloody well said it is!
You create entire worlds in your head when you dream.
When you imagine, you create a story.
When you read, you immerse yourself in a work of art.
When you think, you create it.
Now, however brief the creation, be it a fleeting dream or the everlasting writings of Greek mythos, Simmon's worlds and Tolstoy's societies, we inhabit it.
And inhabiting something implies it is real. We create within out minds. We delve into the creation. Thus, it is real on some level. Now, it is not tangible like this specific fabric or "reality", but it is a fabric nonetheless.
Think of it like this: You create. You go in. While within, it is real. As soon as you leave, or abandon the "world" you inhabit, then that reality collapses. Simple. But it was still a reality.
Now, what makes New Eden so great is that thousands, no millions of people inhabit it through both thoughts and actions. We inhabit that specific thread of thought, of reality. Thus, we create. Thus we delve. Thus it exists, albeit less tangibly and accessibly. But it is still there.
Call it.....a "reality dysfunction".
(Hamilton) |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
97
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Posted - 2013.04.18 03:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yeah, New Eden is real. We are emotionally invested, socially connected and changes cause us pain or pleasure. I have to go with real. Few other things pull us in and hold us like New Eden or give us reason to invest career level time and effort.
http://themittani.com/features/garpa-celebrates-10-years-eve-gts-goes-public
This type of hard work and time spent is a prime example of a real thing. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
994
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Posted - 2013.04.18 03:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
In the same way that a board game is real.
You know those really big board games that last days and have 4-6 players and lots of pieces? Some even last weeks.
When you aren't playing them, they are still there, the game is real. But not really it's just another interface to play a game in a fantasy setting. Science fantasy in this case. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
441
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Posted - 2013.04.18 05:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Everything on the internet is real, or not real,m depending on how you want to define things. It is funny how some want it both ways depending on the situation.
When you download something online authority figures want it to be real, and for it to be a real crime.
When you have personal property online authority figures want it to be not real and so your rights to unlawful search and seizure does not apply.
Funny how some want it both ways... |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
97
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Posted - 2013.04.18 05:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
The on going and constant change in New Eden makes it feel more real than other online games. Social media sites provide the same amount of realism. European news seems to be as real as EVE news - to me because I'm American - much of the news from Europe doesn't change anything for me. Unless there is a war; news from over seas is as real to me as news from New Eden because it is only words and pictures.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2555
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Posted - 2013.04.18 10:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:This is going to hurt, but...
Step away from the screen.
Find the nearest door that will allow you access to the sky.
Look around.
Touch stuff.
Now debate the reality of Intergalactic Warbarges and your involvement with them.
While you're touching stuff, open up the slot where your PS3's HDD is, maybe pull it out, put a hand on it. That's where your DUST client is stored, and it therefore contains a small part of New Eden.
You may not be able to touch the non-physical objects in New Eden, but you can touch physical objects which contain a part of New Eden.
Quote:And then go find the woman that talked nerdistic (pothead) philosophy with you and make something happen.
I live with one of the (several) women I know who talk about "nerdy" topics. Neither of us smokes, pot or otherwise. Some of the other "nerdy" girls I know smoke, some don't. Not sure what the relevance of any form of drug has to this conversation. |
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
104
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Posted - 2013.04.18 11:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Thanks Blacknova. I didn't want to say anything back on that. |
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