DUST Search - Faction warfare loyalty

CCP FoxFour wrote:

So yea, basically I disagree.

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

There is already zero difference between the motivations of a capsuleer and the motivations of a mercenary. We're both free agents, we both want ISK and we'll both screw anyone over to get it.

We have the chance to make the motivations different. We don't have to make DUST and EVE characters have the same motivation for participating in FW. I didn't say we wouldn't introduce standings, just that we have no plans now.

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

The only difference is our combat capabilities.

There are plenty of differences and we can make it as different or similar as we want. The discussion should be about what we think those differences and similarities should be, not what the must be just because the other game has it that way. These are two games, we must do what is best for each as they play very differently.

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

You cannot remove standings from Dust without also admitting you believe it was a mistake to have it in Eve in the first place.

Um... we haven't added them to DUST so there is no removing... so... yea...

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

And a lot of people would take up arms over that assessment.

OK... that discussion is on the EVE teams. Our focus is on making DUST players care about FW and making it fun for them. We care about the link between the two, but the details on the EVE side of FW are up to the EVE teams. How FW works in DUST should not be the deciding factor in how it works in EVE.

However much we at CCP like to talk about two games in one universe and all that jazz, the fact remains that these are two games. A gameplay element for one game is not necessarily good for the other.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Sergamon Draco Darkstar Mercs 11	Posted - 2013.04.14 17:31:00 - [1] - Quote I have this question,if my corp joins alliance which are caldari loyalist,and i play faction warfares in gallente side.Does this affect my character,and which way it affects my character? sorry my grammar
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 185	Posted - 2013.04.14 17:43:00 - [2] - Quote as of yet doesn't really matter to us
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 687	Posted - 2013.04.16 12:32:00 - [3] - Quote Hopefully it will matter, someday. I EVE, every character and corp has "Standings" with the factions (and others). Your standing affects what missions are available to you and how much you get paid for them. Your standings also affect your corp's standings. In Dust, this could potentially mean that your patriotic pro-Gallente missions could drop your corp's payouts from the Caldari. Your impact would likely be small, but they deserve it for backing the Caldari.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 17	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:07:00 - [4] - Quote Sergamon Draco wrote: I have this question,if my corp joins alliance which are caldari loyalist,and i play faction warfares in gallente side.Does this affect my character,and which way it affects my character? sorry my grammar there is no loyalty among faction warfare. it is very unlikely that a situation such as the one you bring up will affect your standing in dust.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 225	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:22:00 - [5] - Quote If you corp joins an alliance enlisted in the Caldari militia your corp (and you) will also be enlisted in thte caldari militia.
Guinevere Bravo SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 151	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:33:00 - [6] - Quote Im a merc, as long a i can shoot people in the face i don't care who its for.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 232	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:35:00 - [7] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: If you corp joins an alliance enlisted in the Caldari militia your corp (and you) will also be enlisted in thte caldari militia. But in DUST we will be given the option to fight for whoever we want since we are mercs So OP is asking if he will get punished in anyway for fighting for the enemy Until standings come in a doubt anything will happen but if the alliance/corp is big enough then 1 person may not do that much damage but a few can cause the standing to drop low enough that they may get booted from FW

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3131	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:56:00 - [8] - Quote We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more.

Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation 264	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:58:00 - [9] - Quote That's disappointing. I was looking forward to using standing to purchase factional dropships!
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 536	Posted - 2013.04.16 14:07:00 - [10] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. Foxy let me teach you the way of AFK sabotage

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 487	Posted - 2013.04.16 14:52:00 - [11] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. I'd rather see a benefit to those that want to commit. Your current take on this is to force everyone into one role, the true mercenary. Its like saying all EVE pilots should be mission runners or have to join a null sec alliance and fight for their warlord. I want to fight for the Minmatar. I want to pledge my loyalty, wave the flag and in return receive a benefit for being loyal to the Minmatar. I should earn access to faction gear and be able to skin my equipment in Minmatar camouflage. Stop trying to tell me what I am or I'll start calling you Soxy again.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 689	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:32:00 - [12] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. That's sad. :( There should be rewards for sticking with a side and drawbacks to switching sides too much.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 233	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:34:00 - [13] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. Adding the awesome LP store with faction weapons/vehicles would also go along way to keeping us
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 83	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:39:00 - [14] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. I'd rather see a benefit to those that want to commit. Your current take on this is to force everyone into one role, the true mercenary. Its like saying all EVE pilots should be mission runners or have to join a null sec alliance and fight for their warlord. I want to fight for the Minmatar. I want to pledge my loyalty, wave the flag and in return receive a benefit for being loyal to the Minmatar. I should earn access to faction gear and be able to skin my equipment in Minmatar camouflage. Stop trying to tell me what I am or I'll start calling you Soxy again. ^^This My corp is already in Minmatar FW, the eggers can go PVP with WTs and farm LP if they like, why can't the mercs in my corp?
Skyhound Solbrave Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.04.16 16:04:00 - [15] - Quote Lolwut? This kind of thing would completely defeat the purpose of the whole immortal mercenary backstory of Dust. Especially if you include faction specific/better equipment as a result. People would be forced to pick a side to remain competitive, effectively eliminating the need for true mercenaries. I'm not sure how Eve works but I've seen hints that each faction has their own "philosophy" and play style that will affect their specific equipment. You can ally with a faction without expecting CCP to reward you. Just require that everyone in your corp use faction specific equipment and only take contracts from that faction. There, you are effectively allied with that faction. It would pay off in its own way. The major flaw in the merc business is the lack of loyalty. Sure you can hire this corp to help even the odds against someone who is richer or better equipped, but that richer opponent can just buy off those mercenaries to back stab you. However, a patriotic flag waving corp can be trusted not to be bought out by your opponent from another group. They may be at a disadvantage since they're committed to one type of equipment, but at least they will be loyal. Trustworthiness will be just as important as quality when it comes to hiring a corp, so making yourself loyal to a specific customer base will pay in your favor.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 92	Posted - 2013.04.16 16:34:00 - [16] - Quote Skyhound Solbrave wrote: Lolwut? This kind of thing would completely defeat the purpose of the whole immortal mercenary backstory of Dust. Especially if you include faction specific/better equipment as a result. People would be forced to pick a side to remain competitive, effectively eliminating the need for true mercenaries. I'm not sure how Eve works but I've seen hints that each faction has their own "philosophy" and play style that will affect their specific equipment. You can ally with a faction without expecting CCP to reward you. Just require that everyone in your corp use faction specific equipment and only take contracts from that faction. There, you are effectively allied with that faction. It would pay off in its own way. The major flaw in the merc business is the lack of loyalty. Sure you can hire this corp to help even the odds against someone who is richer or better equipped, but that richer opponent can just buy off those mercenaries to back stab you. However, a patriotic flag waving corp can be trusted not to be bought out by your opponent from another group. They may be at a disadvantage since they're committed to one type of equipment, but at least they will be loyal. Trustworthiness will be just as important as quality when it comes to hiring a corp, so making yourself loyal to a specific customer base will pay in your favor. This.
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort The Lions Guard 6	Posted - 2013.04.16 16:37:00 - [17] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. you sound like a true mercenary yourself. do the devs ever play in-game?
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 489	Posted - 2013.04.16 17:08:00 - [18] - Quote Skyhound Solbrave wrote: Lolwut? This kind of thing would completely defeat the purpose of the whole immortal mercenary backstory of Dust. Especially if you include faction specific/better equipment as a result. People would be forced to pick a side to remain competitive, effectively eliminating the need for true mercenaries. I'm not sure how Eve works but I've seen hints that each faction has their own "philosophy" and play style that will affect their specific equipment. You can ally with a faction without expecting CCP to reward you. Just require that everyone in your corp use faction specific equipment and only take contracts from that faction. There, you are effectively allied with that faction. It would pay off in its own way. The major flaw in the merc business is the lack of loyalty. Sure you can hire this corp to help even the odds against someone who is richer or better equipped, but that richer opponent can just buy off those mercenaries to back stab you. However, a patriotic flag waving corp can be trusted not to be bought out by your opponent from another group. They may be at a disadvantage since they're committed to one type of equipment, but at least they will be loyal. Trustworthiness will be just as important as quality when it comes to hiring a corp, so making yourself loyal to a specific customer base will pay in your favor. How does EVE faction warfare defeat the whole immortal pilot backstory? It doesn't. It just adds another choice in the big sandbox. DUST is unfinished. When the market is in place anybody will be able to purchase faction gear from those that do participate. If you want to remain independent you just buy your gear the same way everybody else does. There is no commitment to a specific factions equipment. You can use whatever you want today and that doesn't change when you join a faction.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 85	Posted - 2013.04.16 17:08:00 - [19] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. Reading over this again made me think of something. We don't get offers from the corporations we are fighting for before the matches, we get paid retroactively based on performance. I don't imagine any mercs would go into a contract without guarantees of pay. Why am I going to subject myself to pain and suffering and potential repeated death for a cause that I don't believe in just because I'll get paid according to the battle? That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. If we were given offers of pay beforehand, we could decide on which side we preferred to work for. Maybe one side is paying in equipment that I don't use, why would I choose to fight for them? Where is the possibility for the classic "Whatever they're paying you, I'll double it"? Given the state of the game as it is right now, we should be allowed to throw in with particular Corporation/Factions to prove our loyalty and prowess on the battlefield. Why couldn't we choose to sign timed contracts with specific NPC corps? Say contract duration is 30 days, we get our pay for the 30 day contract (or a fraction of it with the rest disbursed at the close of the contract) and then for the next 30 days, whenever we go into battle, we are only placed on the side that we signed up with for the contract. That is an actual mercenary business model, what we have now is just a way to be rewarded for murder and mayhem
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative 147	Posted - 2013.04.16 17:11:00 - [20] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. That's sad. :( There should be rewards for sticking with a side and drawbacks to switching sides too much. I disagree, I think there should be rewards for sticking with a side AND rewards for switching sides all the time. Just different kinds of rewards.

G Torq ALTA B2O 131	Posted - 2013.04.16 17:38:00 - [21] - Quote CCP SoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. Dont take this the wrong way, but.... buuuuuuuuuuh
XXfootnoteXX DUST University Ivy League 197	Posted - 2013.04.16 17:54:00 - [22] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. My question is if Mercs work for faction. Will we get LP and get faction gear? BecauseThat is really what I want to see.
Cpt Murd0ck Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2013.04.16 18:02:00 - [23] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. you guys are jumping to conclusions. He never said anything about LP or gear. just that we wont have standings yet which has already been said. There is nothing to stop them introducing LP or just Faction loot for playing for that side. personally I would rather see EVE players of that faction being able to get DUST faction gear from their LP store and "donate" it to mercs to fight their wars I will be Minmatar all the way faction loot or not 07.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 141	Posted - 2013.04.16 19:51:00 - [24] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We don't currently have any plans for any kind of standings for DUST mercenaries participating in FW. As it stands we would rather see DUST players playing for the side they want to, and more importantly the side that will pay more. There is already zero difference between the motivations of a capsuleer and the motivations of a mercenary. We're both free agents, we both want ISK and we'll both screw anyone over to get it. The only difference is our combat capabilities. You cannot remove standings from Dust without also admitting you believe it was a mistake to have it in Eve in the first place. And a lot of people would take up arms over that assessment.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3139	Posted - 2013.04.16 21:38:00 - [25] - Quote Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote: do the devs ever play in-game? Yes we do.

GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Legacy Rising 338	Posted - 2013.04.16 21:43:00 - [26] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote: do the devs ever play in-game? Yes we do. Must be trying to keep the servers populated.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3139	Posted - 2013.04.16 21:45:00 - [27] - Quote So yea, basically I disagree. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: There is already zero difference between the motivations of a capsuleer and the motivations of a mercenary. We're both free agents, we both want ISK and we'll both screw anyone over to get it. We have the chance to make the motivations different. We don't have to make DUST and EVE characters have the same motivation for participating in FW. I didn't say we wouldn't introduce standings, just that we have no plans now. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The only difference is our combat capabilities. There are plenty of differences and we can make it as different or similar as we want. The discussion should be about what we think those differences and similarities should be, not what the must be just because the other game has it that way. These are two games, we must do what is best for each as they play very differently. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: You cannot remove standings from Dust without also admitting you believe it was a mistake to have it in Eve in the first place. Um... we haven't added them to DUST so there is no removing... so... yea... Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And a lot of people would take up arms over that assessment. OK... that discussion is on the EVE teams. Our focus is on making DUST players care about FW and making it fun for them. We care about the link between the two, but the details on the EVE side of FW are up to the EVE teams. How FW works in DUST should not be the deciding factor in how it works in EVE. However much we at CCP like to talk about two games in one universe and all that jazz, the fact remains that these are two games. A gameplay element for one game is not necessarily good for the other.

Lord-of-the-Dreadfort The Lions Guard 8	Posted - 2013.04.16 21:49:00 - [28] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: So yea, basically I disagree. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: There is already zero difference between the motivations of a capsuleer and the motivations of a mercenary. We're both free agents, we both want ISK and we'll both screw anyone over to get it. We have the chance to make the motivations different. We don't have to make DUST and EVE characters have the same motivation for participating in FW. I didn't say we wouldn't introduce standings, just that we have no plans now. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The only difference is our combat capabilities. There are plenty of differences and we can make it as different or similar as we want. The discussion should be about what we think those differences and similarities should be, not what the must be just because the other game has it that way. These are two games, we must do what is best for each as they play very differently. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: You cannot remove standings from Dust without also admitting you believe it was a mistake to have it in Eve in the first place. Um... we haven't added them to DUST so there is no removing... so... yea... Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And a lot of people would take up arms over that assessment. OK... that discussion is on the EVE teams. Our focus is on making DUST players care about FW and making it fun for them. We care about the link between the two, but the details on the EVE side of FW are up to the EVE teams. How FW works in DUST should not be the deciding factor in how it works in EVE. However much we at CCP like to talk about two games in one universe and all that jazz, the fact remains that these are two games. A gameplay element for one game is not necessarily good for the other. and yet y'all talk about not opening up the market cause y'all don't want to screw up your precious EVE what was that about dust and eve teams being independent and doing what's best for THEIR game????
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort The Lions Guard 8	Posted - 2013.04.16 21:49:00 - [29] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote: do the devs ever play in-game? Yes we do. bet you use alts

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3139	Posted - 2013.04.16 21:54:00 - [30] - Quote Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote: and yet y'all talk about not opening up the market cause y'all don't want to screw up your precious EVE what was that about dust and eve teams being independent and doing what's best for THEIR game???? It's not just about not screwing up EVE, it's about not screwing up DUST as well. We have teams that work on both projects, like the team I am on. We touch both EVE code and DUST code. I personally go to the EVE daily design meetings and am kept in the loop of what they are doing just as they are kept in the loop on what we are doing. We are not say "only do what is best for one game or the other" and neither are we saying "only do what is best for the combined game." We are trying to make all three products, DUST, EVE, and DUST/EVE awesome. The games have to be able to stand on their own, but we also want an awesome and meaningful link between them.




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