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Shooty McDangerman
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.04.14 06:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think the way this game awards credit for kills and kill assists is flawed and here's why. From what I've seen there is a finite amount of people who can receive kill assist credit for any given target. I think it's around 4 or 5.
I say this because on multiple occasions I've shot somebody, had them escape around a corner where they run into a hailstorm of bullets from my teammates and die. But I am awarded no assist.
At first I thought this was a glitch. But after a few times I deduced that it was because the enemy was being shot simultaneously by many people. At the moment of his death I was no longer the last person who shot him, but the fifth or sixth and thereby displaced from the group awarded kill assist credit.
This is annoying when the target is infantry, but it is incredibly frustrating and disheartening when it's a vehicle.
I have mortally wounded many tanks, dropships, and LAVs with a forge gun. Occasionally they'll limp or fall out of view, or i have to reload. But at that point they're burning with a sliver of health left so their fate is sealed. Except here comes a friendly squad of AR users spamming away at my target, and boom. No kill, no assist, nothing.
I know this is what is happening because I've done it myself many times. I've gotten full kill credit for installations and RDVs too just by shooting them with an AR at the right moment. Every time I see a burning vehicle I spray it for at least an assist.
This problem affects dropship kills especially due to their mandatory armor burn. They fall slow enough and often bounce before they blow up, giving any nearby infantryman a chance to steal the kill. Which they seem to do...a lot. And I'm left with an assist or nothing.
I have no ill will towards the people who do this because why shouldn't they. They probably don't even know they're robbing me half the time. But i do think the mechanic should be changed.
Maybe award warpoints based on damage inflicted. Or maybe vehicles should be immune to certain small arms fire to prevent kill stealing from happening. Just thought I'd bring light to this issue.
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JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
285
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Posted - 2013.04.14 07:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
We call it kill helping.
I would love awarding war points on damage inflicted not who gets the kill. Also its BS that the fire you created on vechicles gets the kill while you get the assist. Just my thoughts. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
858
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Posted - 2013.04.14 07:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Haha, I totally shoot at already dying vehicles just to get some points.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2467
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Posted - 2013.04.14 08:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
In old builds, credit was given for damage dealt to vehicles and installations. I think we need that back. |
MR-NASTY
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Haha, I totally shoot at already dying vehicles just to get some points.
All it takes is one bullet. |
BlG MAMA
PLAYSTATION4
50
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kill stealing , do you have any ideea how PATHETIC that sounds?
You play as a team it doesnt matter WHO kills an enemy as long as he is dead. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
482
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2468
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 09:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
BlG MAMA wrote:Kill stealing , do you have any ideea how PATHETIC that sounds?
You play as a team it doesnt matter WHO kills an enemy as long as he is dead. You shoot a tank with an entire clip from your Forge Gun. While reloading, some idiot with a Shotgun runs over and opens up on the thing for no sane reason. The driver "commits suicide" by not jumping out, while his gunners are flagged as being killed by the tank exploding. Because the Shotgunner opened fire while the tank was burning, HE gets credit for an assist, while the guy who actually destroyed it gets... NOTHING.
If he hadn't been shooting it, maybe - just maybe - that Forge Gunner would have finished reloading in time to get the kill. If not, THE TANK WAS GOING TO DIE ANYWAY. And if the Shotgunner had gotten really, REALLY stupidly lucky, it's possible that one of his shots would connect at just the right moment for the game to give him the vehicle kill AND all three kills on the people inside. For SHOOTING A TANK WITH A SHOTGUN AND DEALING BASICALLY NO DAMAGE.
Yep. That's fair.
No, it doesn't matter who kills it, but it DOES matter when someone else didn't really kill the tank, and gets more credit than the guy who actually did the job.
EDIT: For the record, I've been shooting a guy in the back of an enemy LAV with my SMG, and missiles from a Swarm Launcher took it down to near-death, then it exploded a second later and gave me vehicle and driver kills as well as the gunner I was actually aiming for. It was pretty sweet for me, but at the same time, I felt like I'd cheated the Swarm guy. |
BlG MAMA
PLAYSTATION4
50
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Posted - 2013.04.14 09:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
LMFAO |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
1143
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Posted - 2013.04.14 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. I support this protest, and i'm not a pilot either. |
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Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1180
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Posted - 2013.04.14 15:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. I support this protest, and i'm not a pilot either.
I add my voice to this protest. Don't shoot at vehicles until this is fixed. |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
1205
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Posted - 2013.04.14 16:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
BlG MAMA wrote:Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
I bet that when you die from a 1on1 you wished for a team mate to come and "steal your kill".
LMFAO
Faelsauce.
I don't give **** about my team in a pub match, I don't play pub matches for the teamwork, I play to hit my SP cap, and I get less SP from this broken mechanic. Change this back to how it was back in E3, CCP
/don't respond, noob. |
Yeva Kalsani
Reckoners
29
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Posted - 2013.04.14 16:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
BlG MAMA wrote:Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
I bet that when you die from a 1on1 you wished for a team mate to come and "steal your kill".
LMFAO
I believe you get more WP, SP, and ISK for the proper kill. Some ass shooting the vehicle with cheap anti-infantry or militia weapons invested nothing to take it down. The AV/FG people invest SP and spend ISK but are actually doing the work.
So basically, whatever you're going on about is not relevant. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2482
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
BlG MAMA wrote:Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
I bet that when you die from a 1on1 you wished for a team mate to come and "steal your kill".
LMFAO So what you're saying is that, when a player does something that nobody else on his team could have done, it's perfectly legitimate to give that player no personal credit, because only the team matters?
Cool story. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
878
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skihids wrote:gbghg wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. I support this protest, and i'm not a pilot either. I add my voice to this protest. Don't shoot at vehicles until this is fixed. I approve of the motion. Never have I touched a Myron, Grimsnes, or Prometheus.... |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:BlG MAMA wrote:Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
I bet that when you die from a 1on1 you wished for a team mate to come and "steal your kill".
LMFAO So what you're saying is that, when a player does something that nobody else on his team could have done, it's perfectly legitimate to give that player no personal credit, because only the team matters? Cool story.
Do you know you did it? Then you just got personal credit. Why does everyone think that they deserve a cookie for putting one foot in front of the other?
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Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1180
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:BlG MAMA wrote:Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
I bet that when you die from a 1on1 you wished for a team mate to come and "steal your kill".
LMFAO So what you're saying is that, when a player does something that nobody else on his team could have done, it's perfectly legitimate to give that player no personal credit, because only the team matters? Cool story. Do you know you did it? Then you just got personal credit. Why does everyone think that they deserve a cookie for putting one foot in front of the other?
Don't be a fool.
Players need tangible in game rewards for their role or it will cease to be an active role. Without WP's you don't get the ISK necessary to buy your next fitting. If expensive AV fittings don't pay off, they will cease to be fielded. This is what the OP was talking about. Read the post and reflect on it before reflexively regurgitating the HTFU trope. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
1162
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Skihids wrote:gbghg wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. I support this protest, and i'm not a pilot either. I add my voice to this protest. Don't shoot at vehicles until this is fixed. I approve of the motion. Never have I touched a Myron, Grimsnes, or Prometheus.... prometheus? i didn't know you hadn't skilled that far |
Sev Alcatraz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
210
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Skihids wrote:gbghg wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. I support this protest, and i'm not a pilot either. I add my voice to this protest. Don't shoot at vehicles until this is fixed.
I am a tank pilot and I support this |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:BlG MAMA wrote:Just in case some people dont know , when you play in a TEAM it doesnt matter who gets the kill.
If you think it does you dont belong in team based games.
Go Deathmatch.
Oh wait what?
No DM yet?
Quit Dust and come back when it has DM or shut yo mouth about these unimportant stuff.
Selfish pricks , its not like you get yo kill "stolen" everytime or that kill would have made you an hero.
I swear some people srsly complain over NOTHING.
I bet that when you die from a 1on1 you wished for a team mate to come and "steal your kill".
LMFAO So what you're saying is that, when a player does something that nobody else on his team could have done, it's perfectly legitimate to give that player no personal credit, because only the team matters? Cool story. Do you know you did it? Then you just got personal credit. Why does everyone think that they deserve a cookie for putting one foot in front of the other? Don't be a fool. Players need tangible in game rewards for their role or it will cease to be an active role. Without WP's you don't get the ISK necessary to buy your next fitting. If expensive AV fittings don't pay off, they will cease to be fielded. This is what the OP was talking about. Read the post and reflect on it before reflexively regurgitating the HTFU trope.
Actually no, roles do not exist because extrinsic rewards have been put in place.
Roles exist because they're useful. They wax and wane based on usefulness. If the role is useful, that should be good enough.
I swear, I think a lot of gamers think that they are playing the +WP game or the +SP game. Go play click a cow then. The game should be fun to play. IF it isn't, then please leave and play something you enjoy playing.
Collect the achievement isn't a game, sorry.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1224
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sev Alcatraz wrote:Skihids wrote:gbghg wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:You ahould start a protest by refusing to use AV.
No, I'm not a dropship pilot. I support this protest, and i'm not a pilot either. I add my voice to this protest. Don't shoot at vehicles until this is fixed. I am a tank pilot and I support this I'm an LAV pilot and I support this |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2486
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Skihids wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Do you know you did it? Then you just got personal credit. Why does everyone think that they deserve a cookie for putting one foot in front of the other?
Don't be a fool. Players need tangible in game rewards for their role or it will cease to be an active role. Without WP's you don't get the ISK necessary to buy your next fitting. If expensive AV fittings don't pay off, they will cease to be fielded. This is what the OP was talking about. Read the post and reflect on it before reflexively regurgitating the HTFU trope. Actually no, roles do not exist because extrinsic rewards have been put in place. Roles exist because they're useful. They wax and wane based on usefulness. If the role is useful, that should be good enough. I swear, I think a lot of gamers think that they are playing the +WP game or the +SP game. Go play click a cow then. The game should be fun to play. IF it isn't, then please leave and play something you enjoy playing. Collect the achievement isn't a game, sorry. When you play DUST, you earn a certain amount of something called "ISK" for your performance in battle.
This "ISK" is a currency used to purchase items in game, which are necessary to equip your character effectively in battle.
If you're not getting the full credit for your actions, then you'll be getting much smaller ISK payouts than you should receive based on your performance.
To use a real-world example, lets say there are two guys filling out papers for a company. Lets call them "Greg Iverson" and "Alan Ventner" (I'm sure someone will figure out why I chose those names).
Greg does a whole lot of small jobs, filling out stacks of only 5 pages at a time. Each job takes a very small amount of time, and he can consistently and reliably get through the task from start to finish in a single day. In fact, he sometimes has a little bit of free time to look over and see what Alan is doing.
Alan's duty is to deal with the larger jobs, which consistently have 100+ pages for him to sort through and fill out. He doesn't have to finish each individual job as fast as Greg, because they're longer and more involved, so while he's doing less individual tasks, he's still doing about the same amount of work - maybe a little more. He still gets his work done every day, but often he leaves part of a stack from one evening and finishes it the following morning.
Unfortunately, in spite of having his own work to do, Greg is greedy, and has no respect for Alan. He occasionally slips the last page out of one of Alan's jobs - where the employee is meant to sign their name to show who did the job - and fills that out with his own details, taking credit for Alan's efforts.
Alan thinks to himself, "I know I did the work, and it's keeping the business alive. That's good enough for me" and trucks along comfortably, until his next payday. There's a note with his paycheck that says "Alan, we noticed that Greg has been handling a lot of your work lately. It's unfair that he's been picking up your slack, so we've cut some of your pay and given him a bonus".
But it's ok, because Alan is still doing his part for the team, right? |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
262
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 02:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Skihids wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Do you know you did it? Then you just got personal credit. Why does everyone think that they deserve a cookie for putting one foot in front of the other?
Don't be a fool. Players need tangible in game rewards for their role or it will cease to be an active role. Without WP's you don't get the ISK necessary to buy your next fitting. If expensive AV fittings don't pay off, they will cease to be fielded. This is what the OP was talking about. Read the post and reflect on it before reflexively regurgitating the HTFU trope. Actually no, roles do not exist because extrinsic rewards have been put in place. Roles exist because they're useful. They wax and wane based on usefulness. If the role is useful, that should be good enough. I swear, I think a lot of gamers think that they are playing the +WP game or the +SP game. Go play click a cow then. The game should be fun to play. IF it isn't, then please leave and play something you enjoy playing. Collect the achievement isn't a game, sorry. When you play DUST, you earn a certain amount of something called "ISK" for your performance in battle. This "ISK" is a currency used to purchase items in game, which are necessary to equip your character effectively in battle. If you're not getting the full credit for your actions, then you'll be getting much smaller ISK payouts than you should receive based on your performance.
To use a real-world example, lets say there are two guys filling out papers for a company. Lets call them "Greg Iverson" and "Alan Ventner" (I'm sure someone will figure out why I chose those names). Greg does a whole lot of small jobs, filling out stacks of only 5 pages at a time. Each job takes a very small amount of time, and he can consistently and reliably get through the task from start to finish in a single day. In fact, he sometimes has a little bit of free time to look over and see what Alan is doing. Alan's duty is to deal with the larger jobs, which consistently have 100+ pages for him to sort through and fill out. He doesn't have to finish each individual job as fast as Greg, because they're longer and more involved, so while he's doing less individual tasks, he's still doing about the same amount of work - maybe a little more. He still gets his work done every day, but often he leaves part of a stack from one evening and finishes it the following morning. Unfortunately, in spite of having his own work to do, Greg is greedy, and has no respect for Alan. He occasionally slips the last page out of one of Alan's jobs - where the employee is meant to sign their name to show who did the job - and fills that out with his own details, taking credit for Alan's efforts. Alan thinks to himself, "I know I did the work, and it's keeping the business alive. That's good enough for me" and trucks along comfortably, until his next payday. There's a note with his paycheck that says "Alan, we noticed that Greg has been handling a lot of your work lately. It's unfair that he's been picking up your slack, so we've cut some of your pay and given him a bonus". But it's ok, because Alan is still doing his part for the team, right?
OK, I'll concede. Good points. I have been thinking mainly from the "I must be rewarded for every little thing because I'm awesome" point of view rather than the "Rewards matter to my ultimate payout" point of view.
And yes, I know of the two gentlemen you speak.
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KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
335
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 04:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
My experiments indicate the number awarded credit for a Kill and its assist is limited to two. I certainly am not the definitive source but it does appear to be pretty consistent.
One should note that this includes the HAV's own hull burning and causing the final destruction. That means the Merc that brought the vehicle down gets the assist and the kill is not awarded at all as the fire was the Cause of death.
Now the Hacks get at least three but I have been unable to determine if there is more than that. There is +100, +50, +25 (or all those reduced in half for other captures). I don't know if there is a +12 for a Letter Objective or if the +25 is awarded twice.
You want changes and while I understand them the reality of getting them is very grim. The May 6th release is undergoing QA testing and final polish with minimum code changes if they are following reasonable industry practices. Making any major changes, and make no mistake the changes you want are massive, is not going to happen until the next release. There is some slight hope that one might have that this change is already in the works but I have not seen anything in the Weekly Updates or the references to Uprising that lead me to the think that.
The reason the modifications are massive is just consider that they broke stats altogether around Feb 28. Something occurred that broke Skirmish stats, whether on the server or the client doesn't really matter. It took four weeks for CCP/Shanghai to even respond that there was a problem. It was finally acknowledged and is not going to fixed until May 6th. Two months after the update referring to the problem.
Now consider that they certainly didn't think they had broken anything for the Feb 27/28 hot fix/update/whatever. But they did and now you want them to completely rework how WP are awarded for Kills and probably everything else. Not gonna happen in May, unless it is already in the release.
TL;DR
The changes you are requesting would be better put into requests under the Requests/Feedback Forum.
I would suggest these separate Requests:
1. Change the allotment of WP based on percentage of damage done.
2. Extend the number of Mercs awarded WP to N (where N is > 2 and < ???). I don't know here, 4, 5 or what?
3. Remove vehicle fire as a factor in WP awards. This might not matter if a percentage of damage caused is the basis for the award versus last to inflict any damage. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 04:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
While not getting proper credit for killing blow the last thing I want to encourage among squad mates is a hold-fire or dibs mentality.
If Red its dead.
PS: +1 on the damage inflicted idea for credit. |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.04.15 10:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:We call it kill helping.
I would love awarding war points on damage inflicted not who gets the kill. Also its BS that the fire you created on vechicles gets the kill while you get the assist. Just my thoughts.
even if you only get the points when the enemy is killed and for damage not repped(anti farming) this is how it needs to be, you should get WP for damage dealt not for last hit and touched it in the last five. This would also help to bring back the AV tree as there would be some meaningful incentive for the dedicated tank hunter to try to bring down massive tanks instead not bothering if one clip doesn't almost kill it. |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones
33
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 10:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
"If he dies, he dies..." |
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