Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
1943
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Screw you guys. I want to see cloaks on May 6. |
Some Alaskan
Relentless Heroes Rough Riders.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 15:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cloaking: A Ninja Scouts best friend. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1043
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I can't wait for cloaking so I can finally become a full on infiltrator. Nothing like sneaking behind enemy lines, quickly hacking an objective, and then flanking the idiots engaging my squad (lol distractions).
Why do you have to wait for cloaking? Why can't you do that now?
See, this is what I mean....cloaking has to be the nubbest idea to an fps. Wait until good players abuse it though...let's see how much players like it then. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2403
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:[Why do you have to wait for cloaking? Why can't you do that now?
See, this is what I mean....cloaking has to be the nubbest idea to an fps. Wait until good players abuse it though...let's see how much players like it then.
I do it now, but it's nowhere near as effective as it could be. Cloaking is fine, so long as you can't run around with it and it has a cool down.
If you don't like variation, DUST probably isn't the FPS for you.
Adapt or Die bro. |
ARF 1049
The Phoenix Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Some Alaskan wrote:Cloaking: A Ninja Scouts best friend.
:( well that just pissed in my cereal bowl... umm yeah i was looking forward to cloaking because i run knives and well... >_> whatever give me something that make the knives better make me go off radar completely for a brief time do something!!! |
Kiro Justice
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:[Why do you have to wait for cloaking? Why can't you do that now?
See, this is what I mean....cloaking has to be the nubbest idea to an fps. Wait until good players abuse it though...let's see how much players like it then. I do it now, but it's nowhere near as effective as it could be. Cloaking is fine, so long as you can't run around with it and it has a cool down. If you don't like variation, DUST probably isn't the FPS for you. Adapt or Die bro.
Kinda this. I feel like...Cloaking could be good. I personally wouldn't use it, but that doesn't mean that I want to deny others the chance simply because "Good players will (ab)use it." It's there to be used, and if someone comes up with an innovative way to use it, then better for them. If they break the game with it, then it's time for CCP to do their job and fix the misbalance.
|
Sentient Archon
Red Star. EoN.
927
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:Just wanted to point that out. Along with the bubble shield, the dev blog says it will come at a later date. Just letting people know, try to keep your expectations as low as possible, and you will endure through the rage.
I wanna recruit your and your tank. Let me know if you are interested. |
Thor Odinson42
Red Star. EoN.
53
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Can someone post a link? I can't find the Dev Blog where this was discussed any longer. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1201
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I can't wait for cloaking so I can finally become a full on infiltrator. Nothing like sneaking behind enemy lines, quickly hacking an objective, and then flanking the idiots engaging my squad (lol distractions). Your such a loser lol This is so ironic. |
ReGnUM Public Relations
Imperfects Public Relations
99
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 17:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I can't wait for cloaking so I can finally become a full on infiltrator. Nothing like sneaking behind enemy lines, quickly hacking an objective, and then flanking the idiots engaging my squad (lol distractions). Your such a loser lol This is so ironic.
Isn't it Ironic... don't you think
BTW I think you should apply to Imperfects... 6th time is the charm |
|
Xender17
Oblivion S.G.X
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 17:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cloak+shotgun? |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 17:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Cloak+shotgun?
Nay, sir! Summon not the overpowered heinousness that surely shall invoke the great nerf bat (whose wings darken the very sky).
Personally, I'm hoping the cloak is potent and effective, but takes up the light weapon slot. Combine that with a fix or three to nova knives, and you've got yourself a practical ninja. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2405
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 17:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tarquin Markel wrote:Personally, I'm hoping the cloak is potent and effective, but takes up the light weapon slot. Combine that with a fix or three to nova knives, and you've got yourself a use for the damn things.
.........
Why would you make a piece of equipment use a weapon slot.....
There are so many ways to balance a cloak....why....I just....what? |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 18:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Tarquin Markel wrote:Personally, I'm hoping the cloak is potent and effective, but takes up the light weapon slot. Combine that with a fix or three to nova knives, and you've got yourself a use for the damn things. ......... Why would you make a piece of equipment use a weapon slot..... There are so many ways to balance a cloak....why....I just....what?
It's a matter of sheer individual importance. A practical cloaking device is a role-defining piece of equipment on par with a heavy weapon.
A cloaking device is not a drop uplink, a nanohive, a remote explosive, or an AV mine. All of these, as strategically important as they may be, are ancillary equipment pieces. Yes, logi suits have their role defined by their equipment slots-- by having LOTS of them.
Almost any combination of cloak + light weapon I can think of is, on its face, overpowered. For all following examples, assume abundant dampening.
Cloak + shotgun = sneak sneak REEK REEK +50 sneak
Cloak + tactical sniper = lurk aiiiiiiiim toom toom +50 lurk
Cloak + AR = sneak aim dugdugdug +50 sneak
Cloak + mass driver ... pretty much the same.
You get the freaking idea.
The basic problem is this: essentially every light weapon in DUST is utterly lethal, capable of downing all but a heavy or a proto assault with at most a couple seconds of concentrated fire. Surprise attacks are deadly as hell, and anybody who gets caught flat-footed is looking for a new clone.
A cloaking device on a decently stealthed suit is virtually a coupon reading "free ambush."
It's the same with sidearms, but less so. Sidearms are deadly, but in more narrow conditions. Scrambers have small magazines, limited range, minimal zoom, and want a headshot for best effect; SMG's have still more limited range and basically ask for point-blank for best effect-- and unlike shotguns, they don't alpha-strike you straight into oblivion; nova knives ... well, they're nova knives.
Depending on how the lore is handled, a cloak need not be some little box on your belt with a switch on it. It's just as plausible that it might be bulky and need to be hand-held and actively maintained, the cloak dropping when the user switches to any other weapon or tool. Cloaks in Eve are high slot tools, occupying space otherwise occupied by turrets, torpedo launchers, smartbombs, or energy vampires.
With one lone exception (the stealth bomber), cloaking uniformly comes at the expense of firepower. That exception, BTW, has a very specialized role and is made of paper mache' even as frigates go. This makes sense to me.
It also usually imposes a firing delay. This makes sense to me in Eve, even if I don't quite like it. It does not make sense in an FPS, beyond the time to switch weapons.
I want a good stealth mechanic. I do not want an "easy mode" for DUST, which is what I will have if CCP lets me combine a cloaking device and a Duvolle assault rifle or breach shotgun. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2405
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 18:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
I just don't really see the point in eliminating your ability to shoot in an FPS. If you merely limit how quickly you can move without disrupting your cloak, as well as give them a descent cooldown, I don't really see the issue (with all hostile actions also breaking your cloak). If you want to sneak up on area slowly, you aren't getting kill after kill like the guy camping Charlie with an Assault Rifle, you're slowly moving on your objective in order to set up an ambush.
So long as only scouts can easily fit cloaks, then snipers won't be as big of an issue, since scout snipers are the easiest to counter snipe (1HKO every time, for the most part)
Another thing to keep in mind is that scanning equipment is coming back. If scanners could pick up a cloaked unit who's profile radius isn't low enough, it could put the arrow over their head, letting you know exactly where they are. There are a lot of ways that cloaks wouldn't be OP, especially when we get bigger maps. A slow scout is a dead scout, unless it's invisible. Really, I fail to see the issue. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
151
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 18:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
All those years of playing team sneaking in metal gear online (attacking team is 100% invisible armed with only knives and a tranq pistol) and hunting down invisible campers is finally going to pay off |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 18:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I just don't really see the point in eliminating your ability to shoot in an FPS.
Who said anything about eliminating the ability to shoot? I'm talking about limiting the ability to lay down assault suit-grade deadly fire.
Sidearms aren't nothing. The SMG isn't exactly a cheese grater from five feet away, you know; nor is the guy quietly decloaking 15 feet to your left going to be shooting daisies into your ear with his scrambler pistol.
You want them slow, but well-armed. Fair enough; that's one paradigm.
I want them quick and quiet, but lightly armed. That's another.
My vision of a cloaked scout ... did you ever play the original "Half Life"? Remember the cloaking assassins that turn up about two thirds of the way through, cloaked but armed only with silenced pistols? That's pretty much what I'd like to see-- and not as an artistic statement (which is usually what a scout with a nova knife seems to be), but as a viable tactical role. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
192
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 19:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Can someone post a link? I can't find the Dev Blog where this was discussed any longer.
Yes. What's the source? |
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
104
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 19:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:I am not excited for cloaking.
CCP just scrap it focus on other more important things. Regnum? Excited?
When have you ever been excited for ANYTHING in this game?
Only things I ever see you post about is complaints about the game. Or Imperfect business. Hell you probably could be on top of the leaderboards in everything from Kills to KDR to Win/Loss Ratio to Warpoints and you STILL wouldn't be excited.
On topic: I'm looking forward to seeing how the cloaking works. I already know how Maken Tosch people are going to use it, but I'm curious to see if it will do the right thing graphically, be game-changing or game-breaking, etc. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1201
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 20:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I can't wait for cloaking so I can finally become a full on infiltrator. Nothing like sneaking behind enemy lines, quickly hacking an objective, and then flanking the idiots engaging my squad (lol distractions). Your such a loser lol This is so ironic. Isn't it Ironic... don't you thinkBTW I think you should apply to Imperfects... 6th time is the charm I know I've succeded in pissing you off when you resort to bringing up something that never happened in the past.
Nice try though.
|
|
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 21:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tarquin Markel wrote: A cloaking device is not a drop uplink, a nanohive, a remote explosive, or an AV mine. All of these, as strategically important as they may be, are ancillary equipment pieces. Yes, logi suits have their role defined by their equipment slots-- by having LOTS of them.
Almost any combination of cloak + light weapon I can think of is, on its face, overpowered. For all following examples, assume abundant dampening.
Cloak + shotgun = sneak sneak REEK REEK +50 sneak
Cloak + tactical sniper = lurk aiiiiiiiim toom toom +50 lurk
Cloak + AR = sneak aim dugdugdug +50 sneak
Cloak + mass driver ... pretty much the same.
You get the freaking idea.
I still don't get why you would put it in a weapon slot. Every single piece of equipment needs to be readied by the weapon wheel already. You can't, for example, use an Injector and a Sniper Rifle at once. So a sniper simply can't be using his cloak device and sniper rifle at the same time. Problem solved there. It would have to be shoot first, then cloak quickly to hide from counter snipers.
As for CQC assassinations, just add a sound to the cloaking device. When you put it away, a distinctive noise goes off letting everyone in the vicinity know a cloak went up or down. Kinda like when you hear the shotgun "reek reek" you start looking for it. Except in this case it would give the victim an extra split second while the assassin readies his weapon. |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
91
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:I still don't get why you would put it in a weapon slot. Every single piece of equipment needs to be readied by the weapon wheel already. You can't, for example, use an Injector and a Sniper Rifle at once. So a sniper simply can't be using his cloak device and sniper rifle at the same time. Problem solved there. It would have to be shoot first, then cloak quickly to hide from counter snipers.
As for CQC assassinations, just add a sound to the cloaking device. When you put it away, a distinctive noise goes off letting everyone in the vicinity know a cloak went up or down. Kinda like when you hear the shotgun "reek reek" you start looking for it. Except in this case it would give the victim an extra split second while the assassin readies his weapon.
I'd put it in a weapon slot to ensure that you can't put a weapon there that's as nasty as what a non-cloaked assailant would be using as primary.
As for the CQC assassinations: I'm not bothered by those as long as they're not overly easy (shotgun).
What I would be trying to avoid:
decloaking noise - WTF - REEK - dead
(Shotgun assassination-- decloaks at close range, requires little to no aim or skill)
... But I have no problem with the same scenario with a scrambler or SMG. Also, that's actually the more even-handed ambush scenario-- you're close enough to hear the cloak. The less even-handed is the one where someone decloaks at 20 or 30 yards (immediate peril much less obvious) and burns through the side of your helmet with an AR.
Let me be clear: I have no problem sucker punching people with high-grade weaponry. It's my preferred play style. But I want the cloaking device to be the sort of device you base a build on, like an HMG or a sniper rifle, not a nifty toy like the drop uplink.
(Yes, I'm being maybe a little unfair to the drop uplink and I get about a third of my kills from remote explosives. They're still ancillary equipment.)
If the cloak occupies the light weapon slot, it becomes the defining characteristic of the fit. It is, itself, the role, and can be balanced accordingly, making for a much more powerful tool than the kind of gimped, move-at-a-crawl cloak DUST Fiend was envisioning.
To put it another way: if I'm going to have a device that turns me invisible when equipped with few drawbacks aside from having to watch my signature, what else I can do should be extremely goddamn limited.
I want a powerful cloak. To get it, I'm willing to give up my primary weapon because the cloak itself will then be my primary weapon. |
Crash Monster
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Great, people won't have to camp in the MCC anymore... they can just cloak wherever they like. :p |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2434
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tarquin Markel wrote:(Shotgun assassination-- decloaks at close range, requires little to no aim or skill)
Except it took him 3x as long to get there, get into position, all for a single kill that might be foiled by the sound of his cloak going down.
That's why cloak should require you to be slow, not quick. In the time it takes that shotgun assassin to get set up, an average Joe with an AR has already picked up 3-4 kills, nevermind the actual skilled guy.
Crash Monster wrote:Great, people won't have to camp in the MCC anymore... they can just cloak wherever they like. :p
It's activated equipment with a cooldown. |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
91
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:That's why cloak should require you to be slow, not quick. In the time it takes that shotgun assassin to get set up, an average Joe with an AR has already picked up 3-4 kills, nevermind the actual skilled guy.
Like I said, we're working from different paradigms. I'd much rather have a lightly-armed assassin who can move quickly and effectively, but has to make good use of a second-rate weapon.
Gimping speed ... ugh. I assure you, this idea is every bit as painful to me as the idea of losing the light weapon slot seems to be to you. It was bad enough when the thing whose speed was getting gimped was a spaceship. I play scout suits for a reason.
SOME slowdown is acceptable. Moving like a heavy, which is the image you're invoking in my head, not so much. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2435
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tarquin Markel wrote:Like I said, we're working from different paradigms. I'd much rather have a lightly-armed assassin who can move quickly and effectively, but has to make good use of a second-rate weapon.
Gimping speed ... ugh. I assure you, this idea is every bit as painful to me as the idea of losing the light weapon slot seems to be to you. It was bad enough when the thing whose speed was getting gimped was a spaceship. I play scout suits for a reason.
SOME slowdown is acceptable. Moving like a heavy, which is the image you're invoking in my head, not so much.
So I'm curious about something
Why is it wrong for someone to sneak up on you with a shotgun and kill you, but it's ok for someone stacking melee damage mods to sneak up on you and kill you with a knife?
(actually melee mods don't stack with knives, for whatever silly reason. Same goes with a point blank SMG with complex mods though, same effect as a shotgun at that range and with surprise) |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
293
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Good. I'm against adding full cloaking to the game. Invisibility, that is, something that doesn't belong to ground level game. That kind of submarine war in space, yeah. But not here, please.
Sensory cloaking, that's okay so you can't be seen on radar. It's entirely different thing. |
Icy TIG3R
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Tarquin Markel wrote:Like I said, we're working from different paradigms. I'd much rather have a lightly-armed assassin who can move quickly and effectively, but has to make good use of a second-rate weapon.
Gimping speed ... ugh. I assure you, this idea is every bit as painful to me as the idea of losing the light weapon slot seems to be to you. It was bad enough when the thing whose speed was getting gimped was a spaceship. I play scout suits for a reason.
SOME slowdown is acceptable. Moving like a heavy, which is the image you're invoking in my head, not so much. So I'm curious about something Why is it wrong for someone to sneak up on you with a shotgun and kill you, but it's ok for someone stacking melee damage mods to sneak up on you and kill you with a knife? (actually melee mods don't stack with knives, for whatever silly reason. Same goes with a point blank SMG with complex mods though, same effect as a shotgun at that range and with surprise)
Knife requires charge up, and you need to be right up next to them. So yes. Easily. |
Icy TIG3R
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Also, I doubt they'd let you move with a cloak on, and I'm 98% sure that some sort of disruption will happen as you move more, and you will be better stealthed when walking/standing still. |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
91
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 23:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:So I'm curious about something
Why is it wrong for someone to sneak up on you with a shotgun and kill you, but it's ok for someone stacking melee damage mods to sneak up on you and kill you with a knife?
(actually melee mods don't stack with knives, for whatever silly reason. Same goes with a point blank SMG with complex mods though, same effect as a shotgun at that range and with surprise)
Good question.
I'm not against sneaking up and killing per se. I like stealth kills. I just don't want them to be too easy.
The nova knife is kerbusted at the moment. If it worked well (functional instakill on anything shy of a heavy), I still wouldn't be opposed because there's the charge-up warning and backpedaling works great against knife wielders, so you'd usually have to make a clean kill to get a kill at all.
On the SMG versus shotgun: yes, a clean stealth kill with an SMG is just as inescapable as a shotgun. The important words here are "clean stealth kill." That is, you caught your target cold, flat footed at point blank range. Most any weapon you care to name (aside from the broken nova knife) is deadly under those circumstances.
You remember when I characterized the shotgun kill as "decloaking noise - WTF - REEK - dead"?
The WTF, there, the point at which you realize you're in danger, is one critical difference. SMG is very dangerous at close range, yes, but you have to keep the spray on the target for however long it takes to erode target defenses. The shotgun, by contrast, is a 1 hit kill on many targets, and going with the alpha strike version (I forget which that is) bumps that up to "most."
A target that starts to react as the SMG opens fire is apt to take some damage, but survive and retaliate. A target that starts to react as the shotgun opens fire is probably dead, right then, right there.
What's more, the shotgun user probably also has either a scrambler or an SMG for when the shotgun runs out of ammo. If all you had to begin with was the sidearm, you're stuck reloading instead of switching weapons and finishing a wounded target off. It makes a substantial difference, especially with the scrambler and its teeny magazine. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |