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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 08:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
The other day I got insta-killed by a viziam. This dude didn't even have to heat that thing up, I poked out, he started lasering from a cold start, and I was dead 1/64th a second later. Yeah, lotta good that ~600 HP health did me
It was such a crazy experience, that I really am considering getting myself a viziam. Skill respec soon, so why not? Even the basic laser with 3 complex damage mods owns quite nicely (which for me brings it to the baseline damage of the Viziam with no damage mods, 19.5 something HP). If I decide to go with viziam under same suit loadout, I can pull off roughly 30 HP, which will be freaking insane! |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
140
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 08:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:The other day I got insta-killed by a viziam. This dude didn't even have to heat that thing up, I poked out, he started lasering from a cold start, and I was dead 1/64th a second later. Yeah, lotta good that ~600 HP health did me It was such a crazy experience, that I really am considering getting myself a viziam. Skill respec soon, so why not? Even the basic laser with 3 complex damage mods owns quite nicely (which for me brings it to the baseline damage of the Viziam with no damage mods, 19.5 something HP). If I decide to go with viziam under same suit loadout, I can pull off roughly 30 HP, which will be freaking insane!
lets do a bit of math then...... vk.1 suit with x4 complex damage mods = 40% damage buff (assuming the stacking penalty is still broken), that with a 10% buff from weaponry adds up to 50%. The viziam does 20 damage per shot. 20 x 1.5 = 30. So what we have here is a suit with about 450 hp (using my skills), and a Standard AR that has zero recoil, a higher rate of fire, and charges up damage in this order.....
1 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 30 damage 2 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 60 damage (or 40, or 50 depending on how the charge works with damage mods) 3 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 90 damage (or 60, or 70 depending on how the charge works with damage mods)
Assuming the 90 damage per shot variation is correct your dealing about 1800 damage per second by your last second (before overheat) and you still get about 10 more shots in the fourth second using the viziam. |
Swagger Mcpimpzy
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Now hold up there, i'm a laser rifle user and i've got to say, if you don't wanna get melted do not 1) wear militia suits and 2) don't stick your head up until ive moved onto another target, if you keep down i wont miss out on loads of other kills by waiting for you to pop out. Also if anyone gets within close range of me(which isnt hard because im a laser heavy) then im usually almost certainly dead, even by militia suits, even my scrambler pistol cant fight ARs at close range. Its all about timing and waiting for the right moment to strike at me. Enjoy this advice, it may help you to kill me someday:P |
Cat Merc
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
408
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yay for losing a proto suit with 520 HP because a laser decided to gloss over me for a second. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
67
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Swagger Mcpimpzy wrote:Now hold up there, i'm a laser rifle user and i've got to say, if you don't wanna get melted do not 1) wear militia suits and 2) don't stick your head up until ive moved onto another target, if you keep down i wont miss out on loads of other kills by waiting for you to pop out. Also if anyone gets within close range of me(which isnt hard because im a laser heavy) then im usually almost certainly dead, even by militia suits, even my scrambler pistol cant fight ARs at close range. Its all about timing and waiting for the right moment to strike at me. Enjoy this advice, it may help you to kill me someday:P
Pretty much. Also, I doubt that the LR is doing 1800 per second or tanks would not exist. I can drop the shields of a tank with proto LR but it I usually die soon after because the tank has plenty of time to turn and kill me. Yes, the LR is a tear jerker but I don't think it is OP. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
123
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:The other day I got insta-killed by a viziam. This dude didn't even have to heat that thing up, I poked out, he started lasering from a cold start, and I was dead 1/64th a second later. Yeah, lotta good that ~600 HP health did me It was such a crazy experience, that I really am considering getting myself a viziam. Skill respec soon, so why not? Even the basic laser with 3 complex damage mods owns quite nicely (which for me brings it to the baseline damage of the Viziam with no damage mods, 19.5 something HP). If I decide to go with viziam under same suit loadout, I can pull off roughly 30 HP, which will be freaking insane! lets do a bit of math then...... vk.1 suit with x4 complex damage mods = 40% damage buff (assuming the stacking penalty is still broken), that with a 10% buff from weaponry adds up to 50%. The viziam does 20 damage per shot. 20 x 1.5 = 30. So what we have here is a suit with about 450 hp (using my skills), and a Standard AR that has zero recoil, a higher rate of fire, and charges up damage in this order..... 1 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 30 damage 2 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 60 damage (or 40, or 50 depending on how the charge works with damage mods) 3 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 90 damage (or 60, or 70 depending on how the charge works with damage mods) Assuming the 90 damage per shot variation is correct your dealing about 1800 damage per second by your last second (before overheat) and you still get about 10 more shots in the fourth second using the viziam.
This might explain, why even when i hear "ssstttt" streaking over me briefly while running, you die in a 600 total hp proto.
Sometimes you get killed by one and before i drop, a friend gets screamed by it aswell, if like the OP said it would start heat build up on target this wouldnt be an issue, but then these guys would need how to keep on target for more then 0.1 second and thats something they have issue with.
When i see lasers aimed at me, they are all over the place AND manage to kill me if they get a short (lucky) streak in.
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Swagger Mcpimpzy
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Swagger Mcpimpzy wrote:Now hold up there, i'm a laser rifle user and i've got to say, if you don't wanna get melted do not 1) wear militia suits and 2) don't stick your head up until ive moved onto another target, if you keep down i wont miss out on loads of other kills by waiting for you to pop out. Also if anyone gets within close range of me(which isnt hard because im a laser heavy) then im usually almost certainly dead, even by militia suits, even my scrambler pistol cant fight ARs at close range. Its all about timing and waiting for the right moment to strike at me. Enjoy this advice, it may help you to kill me someday:P Pretty much. Also, I doubt that the LR is doing 1800 per second or tanks would not exist. I can drop the shields of a tank with proto LR but it I usually die soon after because the tank has plenty of time to turn and kill me. Yes, the LR is a tear jerker but I don't think it is OP. yeah man, i totally agree:) |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
767
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 09:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Buff damage and remove damage build up over time. So much this. I laughed my ass off earlier cause some guy kept starting up his laser every time he saw me and barely manged to dent my shield. I then cried when my 500 EHP got taken out in less than a second by a Viziam
That or only have heat build up if they're on target. |
Faquira Bleuetta
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 10:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
me: ima firing my zorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr deadyou: fakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk nerffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff it cpp im to pro to die. |
Cat Merc
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
410
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 10:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
I went on and tested the laser rifle for myself. I have all the light weapon skills at III, except for capacity being at IV. I have weaponry V, and I have laser rifle operation I. I used a normal laser, and to make sure not to skew the results I used no damage mods. From my testing, as long as you can keep you range (which isn't a problem in most maps and areas) the laser rifle can melt a person faster than the human reaction time. I was just melting people one after another without any problem. I can just imagine what would happen if I get a viziam and stack damage mods. |
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Faquira Bleuetta
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
6
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Posted - 2013.04.06 10:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Yay for losing a proto suit with 520 HP because a laser decided to gloss over me for a second. was me sorry
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
67
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Posted - 2013.04.06 10:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
I want a pulse LR, get some real pewpew. The beam laser is nice but I would like to see frequency crystals come along that let me change the range and amount of damage it puts out. Can you image all the QQ from a short range, high damage LR? The future is exciting. |
Faquira Bleuetta
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 10:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
mirror shield in the answer to the LR problem. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
32
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Posted - 2013.04.06 11:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yes mirror shield dropsuit!! I want one.
Imagine you standing there in your 'very' shiny new Armor and LR shoots at you and the beam bounces off and kills the blueberry next to you who is trying to shoot a swarm launcher or SMG at said LR user.
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:The other day I got insta-killed by a viziam. This dude didn't even have to heat that thing up, I poked out, he started lasering from a cold start, and I was dead 1/64th a second later. Yeah, lotta good that ~600 HP health did me It was such a crazy experience, that I really am considering getting myself a viziam. Skill respec soon, so why not? Even the basic laser with 3 complex damage mods owns quite nicely (which for me brings it to the baseline damage of the Viziam with no damage mods, 19.5 something HP). If I decide to go with viziam under same suit loadout, I can pull off roughly 30 HP, which will be freaking insane! lets do a bit of math then...... vk.1 suit with x4 complex damage mods = 40% damage buff (assuming the stacking penalty is still broken), that with a 10% buff from weaponry adds up to 50%. The viziam does 20 damage per shot. 20 x 1.5 = 30. So what we have here is a suit with about 450 hp (using my skills), and a Standard AR that has zero recoil, a higher rate of fire, and charges up damage in this order..... 1 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 30 damage 2 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 60 damage (or 40, or 50 depending on how the charge works with damage mods) 3 sec of firing = 20 'shots' (roughly) each one doing 90 damage (or 60, or 70 depending on how the charge works with damage mods) Assuming the 90 damage per shot variation is correct your dealing about 1800 damage per second by your last second (before overheat) and you still get about 10 more shots in the fourth second using the viziam.
With Eve math, 4 complex and 10% from weaponry = Almost perfectly 61%. (1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 1.61051).
Problem is, we have no idea what kind of "RPM" the LR has nor do we know the increase in damage over time (far as I know), so we can only guess it's DPS.
Laser is beast, that is about all we have ATM. Once CCP releases their info on all the weapons, we will truly know for sure how much DPS it does, and how much it increases over time shot.
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Faquira Bleuetta
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
4 x 10 = 40 i think |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Faquira Bleuetta wrote:4 x 10 = 40 i think
EVE math, percentage is multiplied.
Two 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.21 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10).
Four 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.4641 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10)
Four 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) with additional 10% weaponry = 1.61051 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10) |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
462
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Faquira Bleuetta wrote:4 x 10 = 40 i think EVE math, percentage is multiplied. Two 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.21 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10). Four 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.4641 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10) Except that we do have stacking penalty (yes, it's just a display bug), so it's 29,9% for 4 damage mods.
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Faquira Bleuetta wrote:4 x 10 = 40 i think EVE math, percentage is multiplied. Two 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.21 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10). Four 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.4641 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10) Except that we do have stacking penalty (yes, it's just a display bug), so it's 29,9% for 4 damage mods.
Proof?
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
462
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:55:00 -
[50] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Faquira Bleuetta wrote:4 x 10 = 40 i think EVE math, percentage is multiplied. Two 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.21 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10). Four 10% damage mods (no stacking penalty) = 1.4641 multiplier (1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.10) Except that we do have stacking penalty (yes, it's just a display bug), so it's 29,9% for 4 damage mods. Proof? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=666695#post666695 |
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 12:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Thanks for link, checked it out.
Still a bit vague, I mean why would all other % based mods show correctly in UI except damage mods, and for this long? I've done the math, vk1 assault shield tank vs vk1 assault damage mod user (with no stacking penalty), shield tank still wins.
Stacking penalty would make damage mods all but useless unless they they have the multiplier show in UI now. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 12:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
Perfect solution:
Keep damage the same and make it an actual laser shot much like what you see in "Star Wars" instead of a laser beam style gun.
I don't think it is very fair for LR users to just be able to sweep their laser back and forth over the battlefield and kill everyone the laser touches.
The power is fine and realistic...lasers are commonly used nowadays in factories to precision cut thick steel plating and other materials. They are highly powerful. Their just needs to be limitation on the extent to which that power can be used. Make LR users have to take the time to pick their target aim and fire a few shots to take them down...the laser sweeping has to end. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
67
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 13:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Perfect solution:
Keep damage the same and make it an actual laser shot much like what you see in "Star Wars" instead of a laser beam style gun.
I don't think it is very fair for LR users to just be able to sweep their laser back and forth over the battlefield and kill everyone the laser touches.
The power is fine and realistic...lasers are commonly used nowadays in factories to precision cut thick steel plating and other materials. They are highly powerful. Their just needs to be limitation on the extent to which that power can be used. Make LR users have to take the time to pick their target aim and fire a few shots to take them down...the laser sweeping has to end.
Kills everything it touches....I DOUBT it. It is great crowd control and my wife has a silly jump she does. She says the jump is what you look like when I start melting your face. As soon as you take damage and realize a laser is hitting causing the damage you jump. She likes that part. Here is the fun part, you need to get revived because my merc 7 meters in front of me took you down with a GEK. That's what LRs do, they deal great damage OVER TIME and at range or they make you panic and get owned by my squad.
The laser rifle has a good old fashioned point and click interface. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
177
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
The damage it does short term and long term has not been publicly tested. OP I meant no disrespect or insult using the words "cry nerf". If an adjustment in the direction of making a weaker gun is not your point, I am very confused by your post. I will be testing the laser next build...we did not test this build because we knew a tinker was coming. Please note mercs that the only difference between current lasers is the proto does 33% or 5 more points of damage than the basic and adv...which do the same. The over heat has a 4 "bullet" difference. basic overheats at 20 ...adv 16....proto at 12.
I have no idea what 20 damage means because it increases with time. What I can tell you is that when you get a pro using a laser or AR....they score the same. When you get a noob using it they score the sameish but die less...being further from the fight. This is a gemeral observation... no scientific sampling was done.
I try to identify OP by the weapon anyone can use and kill with.....and a pro using it will slaughter. This does not seem to be the case. I also could have 1 shotted you with a forge gun...sticking your head out.....nerf!!!! No... situations make some weapons stronger and some not. The laser rifle is not spammed for that very reason.
As for cooking the laser... Does anyone realize how much time and luck and ammo it tajkes to cook the laser somewhere with the hopes to pull it out in battle and get someone? That is a lot of variables. If you use the laser often... and you call for a change I can respect that. But let us aim assumptions and feelings at our wives, girlfriends, tv shows, mistresses, soap operas, and superiors and not in Dust 514. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
69
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hell yeah. Have pulsed it for cover fire and that works great. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2357
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:As for cooking the laser... Does anyone realize how much time and luck and ammo it takes to cook the laser somewhere with the hopes to pull it out in battle and get someone? That is a lot of variables..
Camping on top of Delta with a nano hive?
My main complaint is that it feels like you don't really have to "aim" with high end lasers, since you can just "sweep" at maximum efficiency. I'm reserving all requests for nerfs or buffs until I actually have my hands on Uprising, until then, this is all just amusing conjecture to me. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
178
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
agreed But still not as easy as it sounds. The cooked laser is quite large and is not so easy to look around with it. Do not misunderstand me. I know the laser can be a beast...especially to shield tanked infantry. I agree anything we say or test is mute with a new build. But it is so easy to point out the pros without weighing in the cons...and a straight nerf to the pros will make this weapon a paper weight. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
It isn't as easy as it seems. My AR game did improve when I started to switch back and forth. I was useless up close on some maps same suit but with an AR. The laser is a perfect straight line to the target and the AR is more like a far away shotgun. You can be a little off with the AR and the spread cam make it up. However, if you are dead on target and and keep it on them for 2-3 seconds, while at range, they are dead. |
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