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[Submission] MCC Orbita/Clone Disabler: The solution to redlining in Skirmish

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BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 119	Posted - 2013.03.30 12:04:00 - [1] - Quote A while back, one of my clanmates, XerotheBigBoss, started a thread about getting rid of the redline. His goal, like many of us, is to make redline sniping, tank sniping, and railgunning a thing of the past. It happens all the time; one team in a skirmish pub match is just wildly better than the other, resulting in a redline massacre. So you and your team, as the ones perpetrating the redline are sitting around for 10 minutes trying to kill anything you can to speed the process. But you're pretty much waiting on the MCC to blow up. As the team being redlined, you're either waiting to die or are hard charging into the rear objectives, only to hack, get killed, curse your teammates, and then do it all over again. During Xero's thread someone brought up a great idea. I regret that I cannot find this guy to give him props, but he had a notion that if one team holds all the objectives for a set amount of time, the redline drops. I thought that was a pretty good idea, but then it just leads to spawn raping and every one on the team that's getting owned will just leave and then the game will be filling in with guys that will take one look at the map and also leave. It's just a bit too much of a **** move. To me, the goal here is to save both the strong team and the weak team some time and ISK. Skirmish matches with no action are no fun. No fun means no one is playing. So at some point we just have to admit, as players, that there are some matches where one team simply does not stand a chance of beating their opposition, so why not just live in reality, and get the damn game over with. Therefore, I submit this option: If Team A holds all objectives for (3) minutes, the redline falls to encompass only the spawn area on the ground. The MCC stops being a clone spawn, and anyone IN the Team B MCC dies as a result. At team B's spawn, turrets (in places that actually matter) and an additional resupply drop In between the Team B ground spawn and the rest of the map, drops in a structure...this structure can be whatever you want it to be. It's the Target lock shield that prevents the MCC from getting hit by an Orbital, or maybe it's where all the clones are actually kept for Team B....No matter what meta you want to use, it's a structure, not unlike the objectives, that you can hold circle on, but not destroy It's now up to team A to get to that structure, and hold circle. 30 seconds after completion, the game is over (MCC get's blown up, clones are stopped, whatever excuse you want) It's up to Team B, who now has a fortified position and has a closer spawn to the structure (and I've even thought about taking their spawn time down to 5 seconds in this phase) to defend that button. If, at any point in time team B recaptures an objective, the redline goes back up, the structure still stands, and anyone from Team A still stuck behind the red line has 20 seconds to haul ass back to the warzone. Just because the Clone Stockpile (or whatever it is) appears, does not lock out the original objectives. If Team A is able to blow the MCC, all members get an ISK Bonus Now, granted, this is a very MAGish submission to a put an end to boring Skirmish Matches. Here's my counter to that argument: Something has to be done to make these matches more competitive. Since we know these things are not going to happen: Map redesign Sniper Nerf Game Balancing by SP/KD/WP for the love of all that is holy something. Bringing back the MAG style maps with a defending and attacking force Then there has to be an alternative. One that forces Team B to either put up, or go on to the next game in a rapid fashion. When matches become so boring and repetitive that once players hit their cap they sit in the MCC and farm SP...when it's so mind-numbingly dull that guys get out drop ships to mess around, when's it's so glaringly obvious to the members of Team B that they are so outclassed and outgunned that they have no option other than to snipe from behind the redline...the game mode has utterly failed. So I suggest that a hybrid be created so that in those instances where Team A is going to steamroll Team B, we have an alternative to everyone sniping at each other from the redline, or trying to blow up RDV's and LAV's before they actually drop in by using militia swarms, which is what over half of all Manus Skirmish matches look like nowadays. CCP, you've tendered that you want to create an FPS experience that will give everyone that plays MultiPlayer FPSs not only the same things that they're used to, but also offer an experience that they've never had before. What I have listed above would be one way of doing this; in game....and not relying on the "meta" of this MMO/FPS to carry the game.
AWZX Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 22	Posted - 2013.03.30 12:06:00 - [2] - Quote There shouldn't be any justification in an FPS for allowing people like redline snipers to safely shoot and kill people with almost no risk of being shot back. That kind of thing is just poor game design. Every action should have reciprocal risk and cost associated.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 85	Posted - 2013.03.30 12:30:00 - [3] - Quote Manus is sooo annoying because it's where snipers have good games for themselves. I don't think I can think of one time where a team won the game because a sniper up in their red line getting 20 kills. CCP this is what you should do.... You should make it where if you hold all points for about 2 minutes the red line vanishes and one more letter opens up in the heart of the enemy base where if you take control of that it does massive dmg to MCC every so long. this way the team still has a chance to take it back and push the enemy back. IF they give up the game isn't drawn out longer than it needs to be. IF the enemy goes and takes another letter that isn't in the heart of the spawn the more dominating team gets 90 seconds to get out of the red line. Let's add or improve the ideas. We as a community really need to find out a solution to this red line. I am sorry snipers but you shouldn't be rewarded for accepting defeat. +1 for getting this started up again Battle.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 85	Posted - 2013.03.30 16:47:00 - [4] - Quote Let's get it going guys. We don't need a permanent red line in Skirmish.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 266	Posted - 2013.03.30 17:19:00 - [5] - Quote Removing the red line is not the solution. However, moving red line might help with the issues you are experiencing with snipers and railtanks.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 123	Posted - 2013.03.30 17:20:00 - [6] - Quote I don't know Xero, looks like community is chalk full of redline snipers and guys that love 25 minute skirmish battles. It's really sad when you try to fix a problem, and all you get is static.
The Medic Droid The Phoenix Federation 22	Posted - 2013.03.30 19:32:00 - [7] - Quote This is a great idea for speeding things up. +1
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1828	Posted - 2013.03.30 19:42:00 - [8] - Quote Looks good on paper, but will it work when tested?
Jathniel G I A N T 124	Posted - 2013.03.30 21:11:00 - [9] - Quote Was in a match at Manus' last night, my team redlined the enemy. They started sniping from the redline, and we all counter-sniped successfully. Hit detection issues aside, if you can't kill a redline sniper, thats your fault, not the game's. On to the proposal... Adding one more objective to call the game, will not do anything but allow you to pub-stomp and move on to your next game. This will destroy any possibility of the losing team recovering. The MCC has to blow. When it blows, then you can leave. Yes, you win. It's clear there is no chance for the other team to win. So get your head down, and sit on an objective, for the remaining 3-7 mins. Stop worrying about what they are doing in their red zone, and chill out at your objective until the MCC blows. Open your overview map, and track enemy movements. So you know when it' time to get up and fight. The redzone is meant to be fought from. It's purpose IS to allow sniping and shooting, and recovery, deployment of any and all vehicles, etc. It is meant to allow a losing team, the safety, time, and space necessary to mount a coordinated counter attack. If you get killed by someone, ANYONE, within a red line, that is your fault. The red zone is NOT a demilitarized zone. Go near it and get blown up, that's your fault. The MCC is meant to take damage at a definite and well-balanced rate. Get killed because you got impatient and ran under it to shoot your AR at it, again your fault. Gameplay-wise, you have no business being at their red zone. There is no objective over there. So if you go over there and die... your fault. Stand exposed at an objective, and get sniped from the redline, again, your fault. You can't ask for a systemic change to reward foolish behavior on your part. If you want a faster match, go to Ambush. BattleCry1791 wrote: When matches become so boring and repetitive that once players hit their cap they sit in the MCC and farm SP...when it's so mind-numbingly dull that guys get out drop ships to mess around, when's it's so glaringly obvious to the members of Team B that they are so outclassed and outgunned that they have no option other than to snipe from behind the redline...the game mode has utterly failed. Read what you said here... VERY carefully. Where is the systemic problem, requiring a systemic change? Your complaint isn't with the System. Your complaint is with stupid and/or uncoordinated players. You cannot ask for a systemic change, for problems that are not systemic. The only systemic problem here is the SP farming, and that is neither the red zone's fault, nor CCP's fault. The red zone is functioning as intended. The only real systemic fix that is necessary, is the one for the SP. But good luck convincing CCP to do it, because the PLAYER'S are the ones that voted the current SP system into place to begin with. (I did NOT vote for the current SP system. Myself, players in Imp, and COUNTLESS others warned that the current SP abuse would take place if it was implemented, but sadly democracy won in the end.) Besides the SP, you really can't use the system to force players to do this or that. Waiting for an MCC to blow is hardly being forced to do anything. Again, you want a faster match, go to Ambush.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 873	Posted - 2013.03.30 21:12:00 - [10] - Quote It's an interesting idea, and the least broken of the "we need to end Skirmish faster because of pub stomps" idea I've seen. I few things; Better matchmaking for Instant Battles is already on CCPs "to do" list and honestly I'd rather see where things stand when those changes are in the game then add an entirely new aspect to the game before the current work is even tested. Map redesign is happening, maps are getting more random and slated to get more random still as well as red line touch ups/alterations. The red line this build is much better than the red line last build. It still needs work no question there but it seems better to fine tune what's in game as opposed to patch in an "escape clause". More on Map redesign, Manus Peak is a consistent culprit in these cases because it remains the most imbalanced of the maps. This further underscores the need for a solution map side. Player Choice, now I know none of us control the blueberries on our team but this type of red line doesn't happen if "Team A" simply refuses to red line the other team. If you leave one objective unclaimed (also the tactically sound choice in most Corp battles) the red line doesn't happen and battle continues. Much of what's happening here is based on player choice. Speaking of player choice, if people are sitting in the MCC after they reach cap then they just don't understand the game because you earn zero SP from time in the match once you've reached your cap (this may have been a typo but if not it's an important note). I'm not totally opposed to trying this type of method out within Pub matches but it certainly should not be included in Corp Battles/FW/PC or anything Null/Sov once those join the game. Those non-pub matches are what sets Dust apart and gives the game depth the PvE and Instant battles are more of a 'training ground'/quick low stakes game. The real 'meat' of Dust comes in the form of those things which are beyond the scope of the instant battles, granted most of those are only in their very early stages and PC hasn't even landed yet but it will in roughly four weeks. tl;dr I'm not opposed to the idea strictly speaking but in light of various things we already know CCP is doing I don't see any need to pursue it at least until we see what the next build brings us. Pub games are meant to be a quick once off, not the heart of Dust. 0.02 ISK Cross

Beni Rabbit Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 7	Posted - 2013.03.30 22:08:00 - [11] - Quote There needs to at least be something implemented that speeds up the rate that the enemy mcc gets damaged when all letters are held. Something like the damage starts growing exponentially after all letters are held for a certain amount of time. It will at least make redlining games not take as long, and seems like a quick step they could put in to help solve the issue in the long run. It seems quicker, for the short term, than to add an entire new dynamic to a game mode.
AWZX Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 25	Posted - 2013.03.30 22:34:00 - [12] - Quote Jathniel wrote: wall o text You must be a redline sniper
Jathniel G I A N T 124	Posted - 2013.03.30 22:47:00 - [13] - Quote AWZX wrote: Jathniel wrote: wall o text You must be a redline sniper Some times. ^^ v
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD 298	Posted - 2013.03.31 05:03:00 - [14] - Quote I wonder why to this day you are still harping on this? You and your boss for that matter. In May we will have a new solution for the Battle Finder and hopefully one can filter out you and yours leaving the rest of us to kill each other in piece. Once we can Filter Out HAVs, Proto gear check back in and let us know how you are doing. I will be right here waiting with bated breath. As if. All this QQ Kitten whining because Poor Little You are Bored with having crushed your opponent but they will not surrender and the game doesn't have a magic Kitten You button to force them to leave. I would guess if your side lost the first three objectives you would surrender instantly as the hand writing was on the wall announcing to all that Loser was being tattooed on your forehead. Right? It would only be fair or else your eventual victors might get bored and Whine here on the Forums with their QQ flooding the InterTubes. Play Corp battles and be done with the pub stomping. Quit running Proto gear, slum a little. Leave Battle and play someone else. Quit Whining about Winning!
AWZX Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 25	Posted - 2013.03.31 10:03:00 - [15] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: I wonder why to this day you are still harping on this? You and your boss for that matter. In May we will have a new solution for the Battle Finder and hopefully one can filter out you and yours leaving the rest of us to kill each other in piece. Once we can Filter Out HAVs, Proto gear check back in and let us know how you are doing. I will be right here waiting with bated breath. As if. All this QQ Kitten whining because Poor Little You are Bored with having crushed your opponent but they will not surrender and the game doesn't have a magic Kitten You button to force them to leave. I would guess if your side lost the first three objectives you would surrender instantly as the hand writing was on the wall announcing to all that Loser was being tattooed on your forehead. Right? It would only be fair or else your eventual victors might get bored and Whine here on the Forums with their QQ flooding the InterTubes. Play Corp battles and be done with the pub stomping. Quit running Proto gear, slum a little. Leave Battle and play someone else. Quit Whining about Winning! Pretty much no one in PFBHz runs proto gear in pubs. No one wants to corp battle PFBHz either. You typed all that up only to be wrong, gg.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 91	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:22:00 - [16] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Was in a match at Manus' last night, my team redlined the enemy. They started sniping from the redline, and we all counter-sniped successfully. Hit detection issues aside, if you can't kill a redline sniper, thats your fault, not the game's. On to the proposal... Adding one more objective to call the game, will not do anything but allow you to pub-stomp and move on to your next game. This will destroy any possibility of the losing team recovering. The MCC has to blow. When it blows, then you can leave. Yes, you win. It's clear there is no chance for the other team to win. So get your head down, and sit on an objective, for the remaining 3-7 mins. Stop worrying about what they are doing in their red zone, and chill out at your objective until the MCC blows. Open your overview map, and track enemy movements. So you know when it' time to get up and fight. The redzone is meant to be fought from. It's purpose IS to allow sniping and shooting, and recovery, deployment of any and all vehicles, etc. It is meant to allow a losing team, the safety, time, and space necessary to mount a coordinated counter attack. If you get killed by someone, ANYONE, within a red line, that is your fault. The red zone is NOT a demilitarized zone. Go near it and get blown up, that's your fault. The MCC is meant to take damage at a definite and well-balanced rate. Get killed because you got impatient and ran under it to shoot your AR at it, again your fault. Gameplay-wise, you have no business being at their red zone. There is no objective over there. So if you go over there and die... your fault. Stand exposed at an objective, and get sniped from the redline, again, your fault. You can't ask for a systemic change to reward foolish behavior on your part. If you want a faster match, go to Ambush. BattleCry1791 wrote: When matches become so boring and repetitive that once players hit their cap they sit in the MCC and farm SP...when it's so mind-numbingly dull that guys get out drop ships to mess around, when's it's so glaringly obvious to the members of Team B that they are so outclassed and outgunned that they have no option other than to snipe from behind the redline...the game mode has utterly failed. Read what you said here... VERY carefully. Where is the systemic problem, requiring a systemic change? Your complaint isn't with the System. Your complaint is with stupid and/or uncoordinated players. You cannot ask for a systemic change, for problems that are not systemic. The only systemic problem here is the SP farming, and that is neither the red zone's fault, nor CCP's fault. The red zone is functioning as intended. The only real systemic fix that is necessary, is the one for the SP. But good luck convincing CCP to do it, because the PLAYER'S are the ones that voted the current SP system into place to begin with. (I did NOT vote for the current SP system. Myself, players in Imp, and COUNTLESS others warned that the current SP abuse would take place if it was implemented, but sadly democracy won in the end.) Besides the SP, you really can't use the system to force players to do this or that. Waiting for an MCC to blow is hardly being forced to do anything. Again, you want a faster match, go to Ambush. CLEARLY a red line sniper....
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 91	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:24:00 - [17] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: I wonder why to this day you are still harping on this? You and your boss for that matter. In May we will have a new solution for the Battle Finder and hopefully one can filter out you and yours leaving the rest of us to kill each other in piece. Once we can Filter Out HAVs, Proto gear check back in and let us know how you are doing. I will be right here waiting with bated breath. As if. All this QQ Kitten whining because Poor Little You are Bored with having crushed your opponent but they will not surrender and the game doesn't have a magic Kitten You button to force them to leave. I would guess if your side lost the first three objectives you would surrender instantly as the hand writing was on the wall announcing to all that Loser was being tattooed on your forehead. Right? It would only be fair or else your eventual victors might get bored and Whine here on the Forums with their QQ flooding the InterTubes. Play Corp battles and be done with the pub stomping. Quit running Proto gear, slum a little. Leave Battle and play someone else. Quit Whining about Winning! I run scoutA... No proto I don't use aur gear either of any kind. Please do a little research before trying to talk smack, than bow to us.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 91	Posted - 2013.03.31 16:39:00 - [18] - Quote The fight will not be given up on this time. This red line must be countered I will not rest till it can be countered!
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 63	Posted - 2013.03.31 16:59:00 - [19] - Quote I have to agree with Beni Rabbit, holding all the objectives should increase damage by an extra null cannon. Why? I think this would add consequence to a commander's choices- do you try to dominate all the objectives or do you just hold the majority of them? This would prevent long drawn out, artificial battles, which are just a snore. To me, that's the most realistic fix. My dream fix? You want to know about that? How about this? I would want no red line at all. I'd want a completely open battlefield with a an actual mobile command center! Players could pilot this ship and move the spawn, but the closer they go to null cannons or objectives the more damage they'd take. I'd also want turrets and multiple docking bays, think of a garage in the MCC that you can spawn dropships and fighters out of directly. There could also be an option to spawn ground vehicles directly out of the MCC and they'd be lowered via inertial dampening. Now, this is all just ideas and I'm not sure it'd work, but I think it'd make gameplay a bit more interesting and allow players to do things besides run towards objectives, get murdered, and give up.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.03.31 17:12:00 - [20] - Quote The line itself isn't the a problem. I think that the problem is hit detection. I am countersniping with 3 dmgmods on and have a clear shot on a snipers head but after my shot makes his shields sparkle, he can just return fire while being invurnourable. You shouldnt be able to use your Ishukone rifle and have no risk at all.

LittleCuteBunny Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 5	Posted - 2013.03.31 17:20:00 - [21] - Quote @Fighting If people cannot even get out of the redline by ground such as ground vehicle or by foot. How would it be expected for them to get out of the redline ? Per se they can call in a dropship and have it blow by an orbital strike behind the redline or they can pilot it and get it blown. Thus at some point the monetary lost accounted for suits and vehicles is greater than the rewards for finishing the match, which will only act as a disincentive to play the game mode. @MCC If players do not have any incentive to even get out of the MCC because they are getting stomped at the redline, then if you take away the MCC they will not even attempt to play the game mode because of the marginal cost and the opportunity cost involved in playing such game mode, when they can just go play another game mode earn more profits on a time base ratio and stand a chance to fight back. @Ground Spawn Orbital Strikes behind the red line on the new teamGÇÖs spawn just leads to people quitting, now if you take the MCC away they spawn on the ground but letGÇÖs say they are protected on the ground against orbitals by some structure. As soon as a group starts moving by ground they would get an orbital called on top of their heads and then they will just afk or quit. Some maps allow you to get a high enough high ground and snipe people at their spawn in the ground/ @Magish-like-ideas It will also apply to each time you cross or step in the redline you die, with no countdown to go back to a GÇ£good positionGÇ¥. Personally the possibility to even cross the redline is already good. @Conclusion It will only kill a game mode that people already hate to play due to being pubstomped all the time. The rewards on skirmish have to be greater than the rewards in other game modes that go faster because of the time it is spent, the resources lost and the effort. As of now the rewards are very comparable to other game modes which makes it not worth playing. There are more important issues that should be addressed, in order to have an efficient team play: -Team balancing -Squad creation and player cooperation -Game communications should be activated by default, so that new players at least can hear. -Time in game reward system has to go, base everything on efforts -Player removal system or vote to kick unavailable Something has to be done but this is clearly not the right answer.
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 63	Posted - 2013.03.31 17:57:00 - [22] - Quote This isn't about player filtering, match making, hit detection, sniping, lag, AFK SP farming, it's about the red line! All the red line accomplishes is mitigate the severity of losses suffered by losing teams by preventing spawn camping and bore dominating teams! And you know what? I accept that CCP won't get rid of the red line so it can pamper it's players and their fear of loss... Wouldn't you rather have such matches over with quickly though? If a team is dominating, they should just just win. I would HATE to play a game of chess and be dominated for 20 minutes by a pro just because of a red line on the board game, that would be boring! I think implementing the ideas I've proposed would go a long way towards making the game more engaging- not to mention more consequential like eve, boost the meta-gaming aspect, not to mention more "REALISTIC" and "IMMERSIVE" like so many players demand the game to be.
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 63	Posted - 2013.03.31 18:02:00 - [23] - Quote Also- if anything, fixing such issues may actually help alleviate SP farming! If a team is redlined because of SP farmers, guess what... The match is over sooner! You lost! Time to move on! You aren't obligated to die over for as long in a ****** match against a stacked team because of a redline... Not to mention, in some situations, the enemy can kill SP farmers. Not to mention, good players can move onto a different match and not beat on the same players for as long, while bad players can move on and learn more quickly! Just think about it.
MASS DR1V3R KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2013.03.31 18:47:00 - [24] - Quote I personally don't like the idea of a team losing the ability to get out of being redlined altogether. I've actually been a part of a match where my team was redlined for a while and we were able to ninja our way out of it through smart uplink placement. We came back and won the match. What about a different kind of solution than you guys are suggesting? How about if a team is redlined for a certain amount of time, then their whole team gets a big buff to help get them out of the redline and to give the dominating team more of a challenge? Just to throw out some numbers off the top of my head, what if after 2 minutes of team A holding all the objectives then for the next 2 minutes team B gets double shields and 50% more damage. You could give an in-game warning that team B is getting the buff so team A doesn't get hit all of a sudden by overpowered players. Then you don't have to do anything to the redline, team B will have more fun gaining objectives back (hopefully), and team A will have more fun facing a more challenging opponent.
Beni Rabbit Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 12	Posted - 2013.03.31 19:52:00 - [25] - Quote Never reward bad players for being bad.
Mictlantecuhlti Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 0	Posted - 2013.03.31 20:23:00 - [26] - Quote Doing something to eliminate lopsided games is a great idea. As an alternate suggestion : First acknowledge it's a pub game, so it doesn't really matter. Since it is, once a team is redlined for say 5 mins or 1/4 of the beginning hp of of the MCC the game essentially resets, giving the redlined team the other base and resetting all the capture points, if the superior team then recaptures all the points and holds them for the next 5 mins or 1/4 of the hp the MCC goes pop. Any redline snipers on either team suddenly get a redline warning and have to dash out into the open or lose that Ishukone, attacking players get to choose to dash in and attack the inferior team, rush to recapture (you did it once, surely you can do it again) or punk those fleeing redliners, losing team gets a one time shot to change the course of battle. ...and it should be easy for CCP to do. Anyway, just something I came up with on the fly.
MASS DR1V3R KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:34:00 - [27] - Quote Beni Rabbit wrote: Never reward bad players for being bad. I wasn't really suggesting a reward. More of an incentive to keep playing, and an automatic challenge for the dominating team. I'm just trying to think of something other than one team automatically losing just because they got redlined for a while.
Adstellarum G I A N T 27	Posted - 2013.04.01 01:03:00 - [28] - Quote one thing is Comms in pub matches, if you don't know that they can/can't hear you then how the hell do you expect to win with them other than hoping they aren't some **** blueberrys.. so for this I think all players should be able to Hear by default in all channels other than local, just need to activate which channel is the primary channel to listen to the other channels would drop 90% volume.. then if they wish to talk they need to buy a UVT for player created channels and corp/alliance channels squad and Team comms would be left as they are so if they have a mic they can use it.... PTT would be Left On by default and instead of being on the first page under system options they could put it on the 2nd to last page which would make people have to look at all of those settings even though it may just be a glance... if people can communicate then there is a lot better hope of being able to cooperate with teammates... Also make all variants of droplinks Team Usable rather than Squad only or maybe just the Higher Tier Uplinks would be Team usable... and It should state on the description whether it allows Squad or Team spawning... these 2 things I think would make games a lot more balanced and the need for a disappearing redline not as necessary and they definitely do need to do something about one guy shooting through a rock to hit another on the other side of the map yet that same player with same rifle and skill levels even if he fires first still can't hit him because he is hiding behind the rock but his gun barrel magically goes through it
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 4	Posted - 2013.04.01 10:12:00 - [29] - Quote +1 Snipefests in skirmish where the only solution is to countersnipe are why I don't play skirmish.
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 85	Posted - 2013.04.01 14:06:00 - [30] - Quote +1

XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 102	Posted - 2013.04.01 21:36:00 - [31] - Quote MASS DR1V3R wrote: I personally don't like the idea of a team losing the ability to get out of being redlined altogether. I've actually been a part of a match where my team was redlined for a while and we were able to ninja our way out of it through smart uplink placement. We came back and won the match. What about a different kind of solution than you guys are suggesting? How about if a team is redlined for a certain amount of time, then their whole team gets a big buff to help get them out of the redline and to give the dominating team more of a challenge? Just to throw out some numbers off the top of my head, what if after 2 minutes of team A holding all the objectives then for the next 2 minutes team B gets double shields and 50% more damage. You could give an in-game warning that team B is getting the buff so team A doesn't get hit all of a sudden by overpowered players. Then you don't have to do anything to the redline, team B will have more fun gaining objectives back (hopefully), and team A will have more fun facing a more challenging opponent. Than Snipers would be unbeatable.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 130	Posted - 2013.04.02 08:18:00 - [32] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Read what you said here... VERY carefully. Where is the systemic problem, requiring a systemic change? Your complaint isn't with the System. Your complaint is with stupid and/or uncoordinated players. You cannot ask for a systemic change, for problems that are not systemic. And that's where you and most FPS game developers are DEAD WRONG. If there are no players, there is no system. The players are PART of the system as the entire thing is designed on the premise that there are.....players.....playing....the game. This bouncing ball is not hard to follow. As such, you have to account for the sheer stupidity and lack of skill of your average blue dot. And then you have to put an exponent on it due to the MMO nature of this game which predicates and promotes inbalance...which has never been seen in an FPS platform to this severe degree before. Even if they do come up with a filtering system, players like myself will find a way to get into low tier equipment games and let our natural passive bonuses do the dirty work. Make SP and not waste ISK. The same thing will happen even with Filtering as it does today. Go ahead and look that the scores at the end of games you play...they're always there...the guys in the NPC corps that go 2/12, 0/9...they exist in every FPS game. They don't come to the message boards, they don't get into the meta game, they have a shelf life of about 3 months, tops, before they get bored with the game and move on. But while they are here they occupy space in pub games and generally suck it up, helping their side to lose. Here's an interesting question...how many players who have played Dust...have never hit the weekly cap? I'd wager there are more who have NOT than those that HAVE. The system is not designed for the players. The players are part of the system. An almost unquantifiable variable to be sure, but part of the equation none the less. I finally got Cross to understand this (not saying he agrees with it, but gets the general idea) with just one post many months ago. How long am I going to have to rant until you get it as well?
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 130	Posted - 2013.04.02 08:20:00 - [33] - Quote Mictlantecuhlti wrote: Doing something to eliminate lopsided games is a great idea. As an alternate suggestion : First acknowledge it's a pub game, so it doesn't really matter. Sorry, but time matters, my 98k standard heavy rig matters, for some guys their KDR matters, for others it's warpoints. There's a grind aspect to this game. My proposal helps to eliminate part of that grind for those of us that are skirmish players.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 130	Posted - 2013.04.02 08:24:00 - [34] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: The line itself isn't the a problem. I think that the problem is hit detection. I am countersniping with 3 dmgmods on and have a clear shot on a snipers head but after my shot makes his shields sparkle, he can just return fire while being invurnourable. You shouldnt be able to use your Ishukone rifle and have no risk at all. Yeah, that's what we call the "headglitch". It is a problem, but this post isn't really about redline sniping. It's about what happens when one overpowering team faces an underwhelming one.


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