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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1254
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before you make one, repeat this in your head:
Damage Mods with no stacking penalties.
If you still feel like you have to post yet another one of those asinine threads, I can't help you.
Seriously, virtually all damage output related issues these posters are having are related to the fact that you can stack the multiplier on those things to get way more damage than you should be able to.
If stacking penalties for those go in for the next build, you're gonna be amazed at how many of these "game breaking imbalances" just magically disappear. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2013.03.28 00:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
and forge guns |
Drake435
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 00:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Before you make one, repeat this in your head:
Damage Mods with no stacking penalties.
If you still feel like you have to post yet another one of those asinine threads, I can't help you.
Seriously, virtually all damage output related issues these posters are having are related to the fact that you can stack the multiplier on those things to get way more damage than you should be able to.
If stacking penalties for those go in for the next build, you're gonna be amazed at how many of these "game breaking imbalances" just magically disappear.
Are you guys ABSOLUTELY sure that the damage mods (dropsuit versions anyway) are not stacking correctly? I DEFINITELY KNOW that CCP has already stated that the display on the dropsuit fitting screen for damage modifier is incorrect but they never officially stated that damage mods weren't working correctly. If I am wrong, someone please post a thread with numbers because I can't find such a thread. |
Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
79
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
I hope we get a slappers only gametype one day. Though they'd have to change the melee animation a little bit. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
427
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Before you make one, repeat this in your head:
Damage Mods with no stacking penalties.
If you still feel like you have to post yet another one of those asinine threads, I can't help you.
Seriously, virtually all damage output related issues these posters are having are related to the fact that you can stack the multiplier on those things to get way more damage than you should be able to.
If stacking penalties for those go in for the next build, you're gonna be amazed at how many of these "game breaking imbalances" just magically disappear. I feel pretty confident saying the stacking penalty is working just fine. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1254
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote: I feel pretty confident saying the stacking penalty is working just fine.
Drake435 wrote: Are you guys ABSOLUTELY sure that the damage mods (dropsuit versions anyway) are not stacking correctly? I DEFINITELY KNOW that CCP has already stated that the display on the dropsuit fitting screen for damage modifier is incorrect but they never officially stated that damage mods weren't working correctly. If I am wrong, someone please post a thread with numbers because I can't find such a thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZOF8f6zrc This is just one example of how absolutely broken damage mod stacking is. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Assault rifles, FG's, HMGs, sniper rifles, nova knives, shotguns, laser rifles, scrambler pistols, scrambler rifles, plasma cannons, swarm launchers...
Oh, I thought you were trying to make a list of all the OP weapons. Sorry.
Think melee needs a buff though. :) |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1254
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Assault rifles, FG's, HMGs, sniper rifles, nova knives, shotguns, laser rifles, scrambler pistols, scrambler rifles, plasma cannons, swarm launchers...
Oh, I thought you were trying to make a list of all the OP weapons. Sorry.
Think melee needs a buff though. :) I'd be okay with the melee radius being increased a bit, though it randomly seems to hit people at 90 degree angles to you sometimes. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I'd be okay with the melee radius being increased a bit, though it randomly seems to hit people at 90 degree angles to you sometimes.
You know, a solution to this could be that when you run out of ammo, you start to use the weapon as a club. So, you run out of ammo on the forge gun, hold it by the barrel, then whack people upside the head with the heavy end. Same with AR and sniper rifle. And I guess swarm launcher.
Please, CCP?! |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
427
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote: I feel pretty confident saying the stacking penalty is working just fine.
Drake435 wrote: Are you guys ABSOLUTELY sure that the damage mods (dropsuit versions anyway) are not stacking correctly? I DEFINITELY KNOW that CCP has already stated that the display on the dropsuit fitting screen for damage modifier is incorrect but they never officially stated that damage mods weren't working correctly. If I am wrong, someone please post a thread with numbers because I can't find such a thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZOF8f6zrcThis is just one example of how absolutely broken damage mod stacking is. Inconclusive without numbers to back it up. The difference between broken and non-broken is 6.6%. That small a difference isn't going to show up conclusively on gameplay footage. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1254
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote: I feel pretty confident saying the stacking penalty is working just fine.
Drake435 wrote: Are you guys ABSOLUTELY sure that the damage mods (dropsuit versions anyway) are not stacking correctly? I DEFINITELY KNOW that CCP has already stated that the display on the dropsuit fitting screen for damage modifier is incorrect but they never officially stated that damage mods weren't working correctly. If I am wrong, someone please post a thread with numbers because I can't find such a thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZOF8f6zrcThis is just one example of how absolutely broken damage mod stacking is. Inconclusive without numbers to back it up. The difference between broken and non-broken is 6.6%. That small a difference isn't going to show up conclusively on gameplay footage. I don't know where to find the table, but there was a damage output table posted a few weeks back that pretty concisely laid it out. As well, I played a match last build with two suits that were exactly the same except one had 2 Complex damage mods, and one had none, and used a Laser Rifle and AR with it. The difference was pretty astonishing. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
427
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote: I feel pretty confident saying the stacking penalty is working just fine.
Drake435 wrote: Are you guys ABSOLUTELY sure that the damage mods (dropsuit versions anyway) are not stacking correctly? I DEFINITELY KNOW that CCP has already stated that the display on the dropsuit fitting screen for damage modifier is incorrect but they never officially stated that damage mods weren't working correctly. If I am wrong, someone please post a thread with numbers because I can't find such a thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZOF8f6zrcThis is just one example of how absolutely broken damage mod stacking is. Inconclusive without numbers to back it up. The difference between broken and non-broken is 6.6%. That small a difference isn't going to show up conclusively on gameplay footage. I don't know where to find the table, but there was a damage output table posted a few weeks back that pretty concisely laid it out. As well, I played a match last build with two suits that were exactly the same except one had 2 Complex damage mods, and one had none, and used a Laser Rifle and AR with it. The difference was pretty astonishing. Because 2 Complex Mods does 19.6% more damage than none. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote: Because 2 Complex Mods does 19.6% more damage than none.
LOL this^
What you need to do is to see the EXACT numbers. If the damage penalty is NOT working then 2 complex damage modifiers should be about 21% damage while if it was working then it would be 19 something %. Best to show with 3 damage mods because there is a bit more range in variation between working and non-working stacking penalties. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1254
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Okay, as someone who plays EVE, this is NO way you should be getting 19% off two 10% Damage Mods. That's psychotic. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Okay, as someone who plays EVE, this is NO way you should be getting 19% off two 10% Damage Mods. That's psychotic.
It's called the stacking penalty. I'm pretty sure for 2 complex damage mods, the penalty isn't that high. For 3 however, there is a noticeable penalty. I think it's like:
1st damage mod gives 10% damage 2nd damage mod gives 9.? % damage 3rd damage mod gives 6 or 7% damage
My figures are probably off but I'm positive there isn't much penalty for 2 complex damage mods. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bumped for further feedback or numerical explanations. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1255
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah, but that's not nearly enough of a penalty. The second one should be down to 5% at the most, and the third to 2.5%. The idea is to offer a gradual bonus to damage output, not to allow you to increase your damage by nearly 25%. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
295
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty
On eve, it goes: Module Total modifier 1 10% 2 19.6% 3 26.4% 4 29.9% 5 31.3% 6 31.7%
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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
428
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 01:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Drake435 wrote:Bumped for further feedback or numerical explanations. The percent effectiveness for each additional module goes like this:
1- 100% 2 - 87% 3 - 57% 4 - 28%
t goes on, but doesn't matter for DUST. So the total damage bonus for the various numbers of mods goes like this:
1 - 10% 2 - 19.6% 3 - 26.4% 4 - 29.9%
And that's how it works.
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Yeah, but that's not nearly enough of a penalty. The second one should be down to 5% at the most, and the third to 2.5%. The idea is to offer a gradual bonus to damage output, not to allow you to increase your damage by nearly 25%. Maybe, but it's honestly fine as you have to sacrifice other stuff to have that damage. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
182
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Altina is correct. Damage mods are working as intended, even if the stat is displayed incorrectly on the fitting screen.
Player testing that proved it (done on tanks):
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62955&find=unread
Can we all stop whining about Damage Mods now?
(I take it the answer is no....) |
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Piercing Serenity
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:
I think those numbers are just for tanks. As far as I recall, damage mods get a "+.1" bonus instead of a stacking penalty. I recall reading (but cannot find) that three complex damage mods give a 33% bonus. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
114
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Just had 340 armor stripped from me in 1 tick from a laser rifle
great weapon balancing CCP |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
343
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
King Kobrah wrote:Just had 340 armor stripped from me in 1 tick from a laser rifle
great weapon balancing CCP
too bad, saw your last thread, try harder
1/10 |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
114
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Just had 340 armor stripped from me in 1 tick from a laser rifle
great weapon balancing CCP too bad, saw your last thread, try harder 1/10 It better be a 1/10 troll because I'm not trolling. That literally just happened to me in the last skrimish I played in. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
209
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Before you make one, repeat this in your head:
Damage Mods with no stacking penalties.
If you still feel like you have to post yet another one of those asinine threads, I can't help you.
Seriously, virtually all damage output related issues these posters are having are related to the fact that you can stack the multiplier on those things to get way more damage than you should be able to.
If stacking penalties for those go in for the next build, you're gonna be amazed at how many of these "game breaking imbalances" just magically disappear.
Ironically, CCP has not confirmed that a Bug with the Damage mod's function exists.
They have confirmed a display bug relating to the damage mods and the fitting screen, and based on that wording, it's possible there is an actual gameplay bug.
Maybe though, all you people screaming damage mods are op, are suffering from a whole lot of confirmation bias.
EDIT: i see that my point has already been covered by others. Sorry. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote: I think those numbers are just for tanks. As far as I recall, damage mods get a "+.1" bonus instead of a stacking penalty. I recall reading (but cannot find) that three complex damage mods give a 33% bonus.
Display error officially confirmed on loadout screen. As for actual damage, everything is working as intended. You do realize that by stacking on damage mods, the player is fragile right? A player who stacks on shields and bits of armor is > than a damage mod stacker. I am one of those damage mod stackers (for now at least) and I can say that those players are greater than damage mod stackers. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
182
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:I think those numbers are just for tanks. As far as I recall, damage mods get a "+.1" bonus instead of a stacking penalty. I recall reading (but cannot find) that three complex damage mods give a 33% bonus.
I hope someone can organize a proper test for dropsuits, but I'm confident it works for complex damage mods as well.
The "33%" bonus you read comes from people looking at the fit screen. 1.1*1.1*1.1=1.331, which is what gets (incorrectly) displayed.
CCP has stated the fit screen math is borked, and the tank test showed that damage modules there follow the EVE pattern penalty. I don't see CCP using one set of math for tank damage mods and a separate set of math for dropsuits.
I imagine it'd take a thorough, careful test by some overly diligent player to convince everybody that the math carries over to dropsuits, though. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 02:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm going to save this thread for future references. Players can't get it through their minds that ONLY an error on the display fitting has been officially stated, NOT the damage mods themselves. Damage mods are working as intended until future nerfs/buffs. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2172
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 03:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Drake435 wrote:Bumped for further feedback or numerical explanations. The percent effectiveness for each additional module goes like this: 1- 100% 2 - 87% 3 - 57% 4 - 28% t goes on, but doesn't matter for DUST. So the total damage bonus for the various numbers of mods goes like this: 1 - 10% 2 - 19.6% 3 - 26.4% 4 - 29.9% And that's how it works. Mobius Wyvern wrote:Yeah, but that's not nearly enough of a penalty. The second one should be down to 5% at the most, and the third to 2.5%. The idea is to offer a gradual bonus to damage output, not to allow you to increase your damage by nearly 25%. Maybe, but it's honestly fine as you have to sacrifice other stuff to have that damage. I don't know how you got those numbers, but they make no sense.
1 - 10% bonus x 100% = 10% = total of 10% 2 - 10% bonus x 87% = 8.7% = total of 18.7% 3 - 10% bonus x 57% = 5.7% = total of 24.4% 4 - 10% bonus x 28% = 2.8% = total of 27.2%
OR
1 - 10% base x 1 ... 10% total = 100% of base value on first mod. 2 - 10% base x 2 ... 19.6% total = 96% of base value on second mod. 3 - 10% base x 3 ... 26.4% total = 68% of base value on third mod. 4 - 10% base x 4 ... 29.9% total = 35% of base value on fourth mod. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 03:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Drake435 wrote:Bumped for further feedback or numerical explanations. The percent effectiveness for each additional module goes like this: 1- 100% 2 - 87% 3 - 57% 4 - 28% t goes on, but doesn't matter for DUST. So the total damage bonus for the various numbers of mods goes like this: 1 - 10% 2 - 19.6% 3 - 26.4% 4 - 29.9% And that's how it works. Mobius Wyvern wrote:Yeah, but that's not nearly enough of a penalty. The second one should be down to 5% at the most, and the third to 2.5%. The idea is to offer a gradual bonus to damage output, not to allow you to increase your damage by nearly 25%. Maybe, but it's honestly fine as you have to sacrifice other stuff to have that damage. I don't know how you got those numbers, but they make no sense. 1 - 10% bonus x 100% = 10% = total of 10% 2 - 10% bonus x 87% = 8.7% = total of 18.7% 3 - 10% bonus x 57% = 5.7% = total of 24.4% 4 - 10% bonus x 28% = 2.8% = total of 27.2% OR 1 - 10% base x 1 ... 10% total = 100% of base value on first mod. 2 - 10% base x 2 ... 19.6% total = 96% of base value on second mod. 3 - 10% base x 3 ... 26.4% total = 68% of base value on third mod. 4 - 10% base x 4 ... 29.9% total = 35% of base value on fourth mod.
The OR block is correct, which is exactly what he said. Where's the problem here? |
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