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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
983
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's been MANY threads out there discussing balance of heavies. Some saying they're OP, other like myself saying the class is slowly becoming a joke.
Here's my main concern with the class. The Heavy Proto suit = B Series suit + 1 high slot.
So our proto has a total of 3 high slots and 2 low slots. OK. The price for this suit is 246k ISK. OK. Now, what's the motivation to go for this suit? 1 high slot? What's that? 66 more HP with a complex extender? 1 loldmg mod? It's nothing, so there's no real reason to have a proto heavy suit unless you wanna look pimped.
Here's my point, how is it fair that heavies are basically stuck using Advanced suits, while other classes strut around in their superior proto suits? All other classes, have FAR superior proto suits, for the fraction of the price of the inferior proto heavy.
So not only is our suit bad, it costs more. Not enough our HMG's costs more than Assault Proto suits? Nope, give us a useless Proto suit, and make it so expensive that it's not worth using.
You can say what you want about heavies, but you can't say with a straight face that it's fair we're using an Advanced suit vs Proto suits...AND ontop of that people are STILL complaining about heavies.
As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
450
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's confimed all suits will be equal in price from next build.
I suspect they'll give the Proto Heavy a minor buff to make it somewhat on par with the Proto Assault and leave it at that.
They no longer want it to go toe-to-toe with a vehicle (which it hasn't been able to the past few builds).
So basically a Proto Heavy against a Proto Assault would be 50/50 and not in favor of the Heavy like they wanted it to be at the start of the closed beta. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
983
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:It's confimed all suits will be equal in price from next build.
I suspect they'll give the Proto Heavy a minor buff to make it somewhat on par with the Proto Assault and leave it at that.
They no longer want it to go toe-to-toe with a vehicle (which it hasn't been able to the past few builds).
So basically a Proto Heavy against a Proto Assault would be 50/50 and not in favor of the Heavy like they wanted it to be at the start of the closed beta.
Confirmed by who? Source / link? |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
450
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Posted - 2013.03.26 18:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:It's confimed all suits will be equal in price from next build.
I suspect they'll give the Proto Heavy a minor buff to make it somewhat on par with the Proto Assault and leave it at that.
They no longer want it to go toe-to-toe with a vehicle (which it hasn't been able to the past few builds).
So basically a Proto Heavy against a Proto Assault would be 50/50 and not in favor of the Heavy like they wanted it to be at the start of the closed beta. Confirmed by who? Source / link? IRC.
And like you I also consider changing class if we get a full respec.
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DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
2159
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Posted - 2013.03.26 18:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:And like you I also consider changing class if we get a full respec.
I haven't considered it, it will be done. If there is any kind of refund, every point is going into shotgun scouts. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
862
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi.
I wouldn't do that. We actually want to recruit more heavies because we have plans for them. Heavies have a hard time right now but there is a very good use for heavies.
We can discuss tactics in game. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
618
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi. We actually want to recruit more heavies because we have plans for them. You're going to use them as meat shields? |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
450
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi. I wouldn't do that. We actually want to recruit more heavies because we have plans for them. Heavies have a hard time right now but there is a very good use for heavies. We can discuss tactics in game. Use for what? Tanked Logis or Assaults can do pretty much the same as a HMG Heavy. Cheap Railgun tanks can do pretty much the same as a Forge Heavy, if you really need a long range AV option. AV grenades can do a lot of AV work (and maybe Plasma Cannon when that gets in).
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Sentient Archon
Red Star.
862
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Posted - 2013.03.26 18:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Use for what? Tanked Logis or Assaults can do pretty much the same as a HMG Heavy.
Not really. Depends on what you use the heavies for. I like to think out of the box.
Bendtner92 wrote: Cheap Railgun tanks can do pretty much the same as a Forge Heavy, if you really need a long range AV option. AV grenades can do a lot of AV work (and maybe Plasma Cannon when that gets in).
Enemy tanks are non factors to us. If we can take out 3 Unreal tanks in a single pubbie including Spazz's Surya loosing by only 10 clones I think we got AV covered.
More once PC comes out |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
359
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Posted - 2013.03.26 18:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Making heavys 50/50 with assults is just dumb, I would rather the suit cost more isk and sp and own in its roles.
God CCP why you hate heavys so much? I mean you made them to fit a role of heavy combat specialist, now they are just going to get lamer and lamer.
Sadly unless you go FG all the way the class does not seem to get the sort of freedom to do new interesting things well the other classes get.
Assaults are by far going to be the best class to play by the way things are going. |
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WyrmHero1945
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
76
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Posted - 2013.03.26 19:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Heavy Vk.0 is the one I would use and costs 85,000 which is on par with the other proto suits. I know many of you prefer the shields of the Vk.1 but you also have to consider min/maxing and the Vk.1 feels too "all-around". Weapons like lasers and flux grenades can easily kill one of those. I feel the armor tank is the best choice even if armor doesn't regenerate like shields, it has its advantages and you are able to equip 3 damage mods while having 750 HP. I agree the Vk.1 is a total rip-off and price should be lowered. |
Rifter7
Improvise.
133
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Posted - 2013.03.26 19:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
i like to think when they say a heavy and assault go 50/50 that they're taking into account the ranges the heavy dominates in and the ranges the assault player will outdamage them... and inbetween those two it's a tossup, rather than an assault suit shitting on them more often than not. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
452
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:i like to think when they say a heavy and assault go 50/50 that they're taking into account the ranges the heavy dominates in and the ranges the assault player will outdamage them... and inbetween those two it's a tossup, rather than an assault suit shitting on them more often than not. They haven't said they'll make it like that. It's just me speculating they'll make the Heavy and Assault suits be 50/50 since they're making them equal in price. |
Rifter7
Improvise.
133
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Posted - 2013.03.26 19:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:i like to think when they say a heavy and assault go 50/50
hope crusher. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
360
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Rifter7 wrote:i like to think when they say a heavy and assault go 50/50 that they're taking into account the ranges the heavy dominates in and the ranges the assault player will outdamage them... and inbetween those two it's a tossup, rather than an assault suit shitting on them more often than not. They haven't said they'll make it like that. It's just me speculating they'll make the Heavy and Assault suits be 50/50 since they're making them equal in price.
what about equal SP?
And why would that make them Equal? Gonna give me faster speed and equipment slots? and a smaller hit box?
better to make the suits unique like they used to be then ground them down to the lowest common denominator.
At this rate TF2 is gonna have more depth...... |
Rifter7
Improvise.
133
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
i bet when the racial suits and bonuses come out you'll be looking at % armor % shield bonuses where the others will most likely not have that.
the heavies get challenged in their strongest ranges by the advanced and proto assault suits.. when and if the heavies get more hp due to skills, i'm assuming the assaults wont get near as much.
that effectively increases their survival time and increases their killing power.. if that's the case. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2152
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:And like you I also consider changing class if we get a full respec.
I'm not considering it, it will be done. If there is any kind of refund, every point is going into shotgun scouts. And what if they give you a limited reallocation instead of a full SP refund for those points?
What if all your HMG points are locked to being spent on anti-infantry Heavy weapons, and the points you poured into Heavies are Large Frame only, so you can switch to a new Large Frame suit, but not a Scout?
What will you spend your points on then? |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
989
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:And like you I also consider changing class if we get a full respec.
I'm not considering it, it will be done. If there is any kind of refund, every point is going into shotgun scouts. And what if they give you a limited reallocation instead of a full SP refund for those points? What if all your HMG points are locked to being spent on anti-infantry Heavy weapons, and the points you poured into Heavies are Large Frame only, so you can switch to a new Large Frame suit, but not a Scout? What will you spend your points on then?
You're just pointing out that people would have wasted their time, money, and SP into a class then.
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Rifter7
Improvise.
133
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
why and how are they going to limit the sp refund like that?
seriously think about how ridiculous that'd be to refund skillpoints only to specific skills. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
303
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:There's been MANY threads out there discussing balance of heavies. Some saying they're OP, other like myself saying the class is slowly becoming a joke.
Here's my main concern with the class. The Heavy Proto suit = B Series suit + 1 high slot.
So our proto has a total of 3 high slots and 2 low slots. OK. The price for this suit is 246k ISK. OK. Now, what's the motivation to go for this suit? 1 high slot? What's that? 66 more HP with a complex extender? 1 loldmg mod? It's nothing, so there's no real reason to have a proto heavy suit unless you wanna look pimped.
Here's my point, how is it fair that heavies are basically stuck using Advanced suits, while other classes strut around in their superior proto suits? All other classes, have FAR superior proto suits, for the fraction of the price of the inferior proto heavy.
So not only is our suit bad, it costs more. Not enough our HMG's costs more than Assault Proto suits? Nope, give us a useless Proto suit, and make it so expensive that it's not worth using.
You can say what you want about heavies, but you can't say with a straight face that it's fair we're using an Advanced suit vs Proto suits...AND ontop of that people are STILL complaining about heavies.
As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi.
it IS unfair, but mob opinion usually wins out, and therefore we got shafted....HARD
i'm holding out hope that the new titan suit has a minuimum of 2000 EHP UNMODIFIED (its description says its run is a current heavies walk)
if this new update doesn't UN-shaft us, i don't know what i'm going to do..... |
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
993
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:There's been MANY threads out there discussing balance of heavies. Some saying they're OP, other like myself saying the class is slowly becoming a joke.
Here's my main concern with the class. The Heavy Proto suit = B Series suit + 1 high slot.
So our proto has a total of 3 high slots and 2 low slots. OK. The price for this suit is 246k ISK. OK. Now, what's the motivation to go for this suit? 1 high slot? What's that? 66 more HP with a complex extender? 1 loldmg mod? It's nothing, so there's no real reason to have a proto heavy suit unless you wanna look pimped.
Here's my point, how is it fair that heavies are basically stuck using Advanced suits, while other classes strut around in their superior proto suits? All other classes, have FAR superior proto suits, for the fraction of the price of the inferior proto heavy.
So not only is our suit bad, it costs more. Not enough our HMG's costs more than Assault Proto suits? Nope, give us a useless Proto suit, and make it so expensive that it's not worth using.
You can say what you want about heavies, but you can't say with a straight face that it's fair we're using an Advanced suit vs Proto suits...AND ontop of that people are STILL complaining about heavies.
As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi. it IS unfair, but mob opinion usually wins out, and therefore we got shafted....HARD i'm holding out hope that the new titan suit has a minuimum of 2000 EHP UNMODIFIED (its description says its run is a current heavies walk) if this new update doesn't UN-shaft us, i don't know what i'm going to do.....
Yip. I'm in 2 minds right now.
Go and try to get at least B Series assault by the time the update rolls around, or save up SP in hopes the Proto suit is worth it by then. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2153
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:And like you I also consider changing class if we get a full respec.
I'm not considering it, it will be done. If there is any kind of refund, every point is going into shotgun scouts. And what if they give you a limited reallocation instead of a full SP refund for those points? What if all your HMG points are locked to being spent on anti-infantry Heavy weapons, and the points you poured into Heavies are Large Frame only, so you can switch to a new Large Frame suit, but not a Scout? What will you spend your points on then? You're just pointing out that people would have wasted their time, money, and SP into a class then. Not if the price differences and other flaws holding the high-tier Heavies back are being addressed.
And not if there are interesting differences between the different racial Large Frame suits. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
365
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:There's been MANY threads out there discussing balance of heavies. Some saying they're OP, other like myself saying the class is slowly becoming a joke.
Here's my main concern with the class. The Heavy Proto suit = B Series suit + 1 high slot.
So our proto has a total of 3 high slots and 2 low slots. OK. The price for this suit is 246k ISK. OK. Now, what's the motivation to go for this suit? 1 high slot? What's that? 66 more HP with a complex extender? 1 loldmg mod? It's nothing, so there's no real reason to have a proto heavy suit unless you wanna look pimped.
Here's my point, how is it fair that heavies are basically stuck using Advanced suits, while other classes strut around in their superior proto suits? All other classes, have FAR superior proto suits, for the fraction of the price of the inferior proto heavy.
So not only is our suit bad, it costs more. Not enough our HMG's costs more than Assault Proto suits? Nope, give us a useless Proto suit, and make it so expensive that it's not worth using.
You can say what you want about heavies, but you can't say with a straight face that it's fair we're using an Advanced suit vs Proto suits...AND ontop of that people are STILL complaining about heavies.
As someone said another thread, if we get to reset our SP, I'm taking ALL my SP out and putting it into Assault or Logi. it IS unfair, but mob opinion usually wins out, and therefore we got shafted....HARD i'm holding out hope that the new titan suit has a minuimum of 2000 EHP UNMODIFIED (its description says its run is a current heavies walk) if this new update doesn't UN-shaft us, i don't know what i'm going to do.....
I suppose as things stand right now I would probably cry and take the respec like that girl in requiem for a dream took that A to A job..... but I am holding out as well for a heavy rebuild and for the TITAN class. Its my obi wan of dust.
The problem that worries me is that if the titan is any good, players are going to run headlong into him and get eaten and we will be back where the reg heavy is now. And if it sucks and costs x5 sp or more to spec into no one will use them but people who dont know better, who fall into the trap and dont know better.
Does they heavy class have to become a wasteland in order for it to be made fertile again?
I Feel like all the heavys are stuck below a glass ceiling and the water is slowly rising up on us to finish us off. Guess we will see who can hold their breath the longest? |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
265
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:It's confimed all suits will be equal in price from next build. . .
If that's the case everyone's gonna be complaining how heavy users are getting richer and richer as they tend to lose less suits.
just forget about isk, it doesn't really matter either way. We are still in beta economy and beta pricing model. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2154
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:why and how are they going to limit the sp refund like that?
seriously think about how ridiculous that'd be to refund skillpoints only to specific skills. Because choices are still meant to have consequences, but this way they'd allow you to get around the limits on racial suits. It would give you a head-start on an alternative version of your previous suit, but you couldn't exploit it by training something you know is getting a racial variant just so you can respec out of it later if you don't like the results. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
995
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Rifter7 wrote:why and how are they going to limit the sp refund like that?
seriously think about how ridiculous that'd be to refund skillpoints only to specific skills. Because choices are still meant to have consequences, but this way they'd allow you to get around the limits on racial suits. It would give you a head-start on an alternative version of your previous suit, but you couldn't exploit it by training something you know is getting a racial variant just so you can respec out of it later if you don't like the results.
Consequences of choices? More like the imbalance of Proto Heavy suits as they are right now. |
Rifter7
Improvise.
137
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 22:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
yeah but HOW are they going to refund skillpoints yet limit you to specific choices?
really.. stop for a second and think about how freaking annoying that would be to do vs the less annoying way of just refunding skillpoints to the bass character selection + accumulated points.
do you want to be THAT guy that programs all the skills and limits them in for a one time thing? no.. that's crazy, i doubt ccp would waste the manpower and hours for doing something that limiting and only once.
i don't know why you guys are panicing about something that ccp hasn't even said. btw ccp is releasing a new leprechaun dropsuit, i heard it from this guy i know.. lets all post about it. |
Phantom RainV
G I A N T
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 23:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
I agree cause heavy need a buff cause proto assault shouldn't be able to take a proto heavy head on |
Kaze Eyrou
Rogue Spades
91
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 23:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:yeah but HOW are they going to refund skillpoints yet limit you to specific choices? -snip- i don't know why you guys are panicing about something that ccp hasn't even said.
CCP Eterne wrote:We've only said we won't reset your SP to 0. We haven't said anything about not refunding your SP and allowing you to respec. That option is still on the table prior to release if we feel it will be worthwhile. -source Not panicking but if it makes you feel better...
/equips tinfoil hat 1 /gives tinfoil hat 2 to Rifter7
EDIT: Oops. Linked source. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
454
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 00:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Here's what I think they'll do (this is my thoughts, none of it is confirmed other than the price thing):
They'll make all suits cost the same, so Proto Heavy = Proto Assault = Proto Logi = Proto Scout.
Militia and Standard Heavy will be 1 high slot and 1 low slot, currently 2 high and 1 low.
Advanced Heavy will be 2 high and 2 low, same as now.
Proto Heavy will be 3 high and 3 low, currently 3 high and 2 low.
Not sure what I think about that, if that's what they'll do. |
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