*yawn* waiting for credible well thought out argument with numbers as hard evidence post to nerf AR's

if I was filimg it I would show, but I have a heavy dropsuit fitting with 100 shield 953 armour and a guy in proto with a kill switch Gek dropped in the instant he seen me

if I was filimg it I would show, but I have a heavy dropsuit fitting with 100 shield 953 armour and a guy in proto with a kill switch Gek dropped in the instant he seen me

if I was filimg it I would show, but I have a heavy dropsuit fitting with 100 shield 953 armour and a guy in proto with a kill switch Gek dropped in the instant he seen me

Thats not the AR that's the damage mods

Iff thats the case I'm going gek and damage mods, goin tank hunting

Seriously when a guy with a gek does 1000dmg in 1 secon, weapons OP

Ok so I don't have the game screen in front of me right now so let's see if I can do this from memory. (Just base stats of the weapon, not counting proficiency and weaponry upgrades or damage mods)

Prototype AR does what, 34 damage per bullet, at roughly 750 rpm, that works out to 750/60=12.5 bullets/sec @ 34 damage each = 34x12.5=425 damage per sec. 34 damage per bullet x 60 in the mag = 2040 per mag. 60 sec / 12.5 bullets per sec = empty mag in 4.8 sec.

Standard HMG does 19 damage per bullet, fires at roughly 2000 rpm, that works out to 2000/60sec = 33.33333333333 (we will say 33.3) bullets/sec @ 19 damage per bullet = 19x33.3= 632.7 damage per sec. 19 damage x 450? in the mag (overheat if constant fire leaves about 120 left) so 330 = 6270 damage per full mag to overheat.

You claim that your suit has an EHP of 1053 and he's dropping you instantly, assuming he lands every shot it requires 1053 EHP / 425 damage per sec = 2.477 sec of sustained fire with 100% accuracy to kill your suit.

The standard HMG does 3.07x more damage per full sustained fire cycle than the prototype AR, and 1.4887x damage over the prototype AR per sec.

Inside each weapons optimal range, you are dead regardless if you can land every shot.
The problem you are having is because of damage mods (which can be applied to both of these types of weapons I have listed)

How does the AR need a nerf?

Rethink your situation and how you got killed, learn from it, learn to counter it instead of just posting yet another stupid "Nerf X because it kills me in Y suit" thread.

TL;DR - READ IT BEFORE YOU MAKE ANOTHER STUPID POST PLEASE.
Also, if there are any errors in actual game values of just the weapons before enhancements (skills or mods) keep in mind this is just from memory and not having any in game into in front of me.

Seriously when a guy with a gek does 1000dmg in 1 secon, weapons OP

Seriously when a guy with a gek does 1000dmg in 1 secon, weapons OP

ANOTHER Edit: The only counter to an Assault Rifle is another Assault Rifle as it can be used by any dropsuit, is incredibly versatile (as previously stated) and it doesn't take hardly anything to kill the opposition. With ranges that can hit the same distance as Laser Rifles (who's skills are broken, btw - so you can't say it's over-powered if the damned skills don't even work on it) with the second highest DPS in the game, with the fourth highest magazine count in the game.

I previously had a thread stating that the range needed to be nerfed and like this thread it was met with stiff opposition with retorts like, "well, in real life assault rifles can hit out to 300-400 yards" but they never could clarify if those ranges were made on full-auto or not; or even with a rifle that doesn't have recoil once you get to level five Operation.

if I was filimg it I would show, but I have a heavy dropsuit fitting with 100 shield 953 armour and a guy in proto with a kill switch Gek dropped in the instant he seen me

The assault rifle is the "jack of all trades", which means it functions well in almost all scenarios. Which is also the reason an assault rifle is the "standard" soldier weapon.

More specialised weapons are meant for more specialised tasks. Which means that when they go up against an AR outside of their comfort zone, they should be at a disadvantage.

There is only an issue when an AR actually beats (or equals) a specialised weapon in that weapons role. So, for instance, if you could snipe more efficiently with an AR than a Sniper rifle. Or mow down a cluster of reddots at short to medium range quicker than an HMG.Or destroy a tank faster than a Forge Gun. Etcetera, etcetera.

Now, I'm not saying that that is not the case (though I think it isn't all that bad overall, but there might be some specialised roles that an AR is slightly to good at). But simply saying AR's need to be nerfed in general is way to simplified. If anything, (some of) the specialised weapons need to be buffed in their respective role.

Right, but that's what we're seeing currently. It's not uncommon for Assault Rifle users to take out Heavies before they themselves get killed and that's mostly due to the sheer damage output of the weapon. The HMG might have a higher RoF but what we're seeing is more damage landing on target from the Assault Rifle (direct stream versus cone of fire).

At low levels the HMG is king, but towards the higher tiers it's very common that the Assault Rifle will outright defeat the HMG at those ranges or even more.

I understand what you're saying, I do - the Assault Rifle is supposed to be a jack of all trades but at the moment it's more a King of all Trades in that it excels in every aspect.

If you want to get even more technical, the Assault Rifle has a headshot efficiency of 165% compared to the HMG's 140%. Even then, the HMG's efficiency (center mass) starts at 95%, so you're not even getting the full damage that you could be. By stark contrast, the Assault Rifle starts at 110% so you're already getting a bonus just for firing at the target in your effective range.

To make matters worse the HMG doesn't ever go above 95% from 0m - 40/50m, and only goes lower from there.

There are a LOT of factors that make the Assault Rifle King in this game and they're being blindly defended. People just say "stop the QQ" or simply state that it doesn't need to be fixed. Unfortunately, they are very very wrong. Recoil, as I've previously said, is non-existent. Cross that with damage mods (potentially) not taking stacking penalties and it's the obvious choice of weaponry for high tier games.

There can't be much specialization in a game where one weapon can essentially dominate 60% of the playing field. Sniper Rifles and Laser Rifles excel at long range, Shotguns excel at short range, the Assault Rifle on the other hand suffers no drawbacks from ranges except at extremely long range.

Some food for thought: http://symthic.com/bf3-weapon-charts

You'll notice that many of those weapons all have the same damage ratios and ranges, but suffer from varying degrees of recoil. Based on my usage of the Assault Rifle in Dust 514, I've honestly come to the determination that (at least when using ADS) the Recoil is purely animation based as most if not all of my shots will land on target if I have the sights lined up.

I can't say more than that. I've decided not to use them because it offers me more of a challenge not to, but I have looked into them in order to relay the information I'm providing.

I don't disagree with you, in essence. As I said, the AR might well be a bit too good at some specific roles (or, the specialised weapon isn't good enough).

I don't know if it's quite as bad as you imply though...

When it comes to range, an AR has nothing on a Sniper Rifle. Sure, the effective range of the AR isn't small, so you can use it quite well to kill at a "relatively large" distance. But you can't use it to kill someone on the other side of the map. I guess the biggest issue here is probably map size. If maps aren't all that big, Sniper Rifles have less use by definition.

In CQC, the issue might be slightly bigger. But I'm not sure that's really preventable without having silly systems in place. I mean, if you are in my face and I have a fully automatic assault rifle, you're in trouble. A shotgun is still more effective due to requiring less precise aim as well as having more power per shot. I.e. aim in general direction, pull trigger (maybe twice), win. An HMG has other pro's and con's, but in my experience if I get into the path and range of a heavy wielding an HMG, he has a distinct advantage in that encounter.

Other more specialised roles are often so far from an AR in functionality it's hard to really compare them. MD's, Forge Guns... I really wouldn't know how to determine whether these are "balanced" or not in respect to an AR.

Again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But, I think it is inevitable that the AR will be the most common weapon. I also think it is inevitable that it will be very good in most situations. It's the basis of the design of an Assault Rifle: A versatile weapon that performs well in most situations that a soldier might encounter. I think most real AR's actually even have a semi-auto, burst and full-auto function built in, which we need to use different AR's for in this game. Specialised weapons are meant for specialised tasks. They are usually not meant to go one-on-one with an AR. It also doesn't make sense to have many people using specialised weapons.

I don't necessarily like to make real-world comparisons, as this is a game and should be about good gameplay more than realism, but I feel it's hard not to in this case. Take a look at the wikipedia entry for "assault rifle". One thing jumps out at me: "Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies." The entry explains at length why that is. Other weapons are used in armies, but the basic infantry will use AR's.

Sniper rifles have a very distinct role and are very useful. But you don't have an army full of snipers.
Shotguns have their use as well in specific CQC situations as well as a panic defense weapon, but for general infantry work... not really.
Submachine guns are usually used in tighter situations and versus unarmored opponents. In the military, they are mostly replaced by AR's.

The HMG as we have it in game is hard to compare to "real life" situations, since HMG's are usually mounted or at least stationary. Technically, the HMG should be superior in all aspects (barring the use for more precision that an AR would allow by single/burst shooting), and should be effective both against infantry as well as (light) vehicles. That's a lot to give to a class that also has very high survivability if it's all to be balanced with reduced mobility...

Iff thats the case I'm going gek and damage mods, goin tank hunting

I welcome real world examples to an extent.

A big big factor that a lot of people forget when using them in the defense of Assault Rifle is, as I previously stated, recoil. It's one thing to have reduced recoil per level but when you get to a certain point the bullets are all going to hit on target and the only thing that I've personally seen at the 80m+ range is that the weapon's efficiency goes down, not the accuracy.

Each bullet will hit near center mass of where the user is aiming and the only thing stopping those rounds from doing their full damage is due to the efficiency dropping at those ranges. I don't really feel this should be the case. It's one thing if it's a Tactical Assault Rifle, which is semi-automatic, but a gun firing nearly -13 rounds per second- is going to have some hellacious recoil.

There's a reason they teach you to fire in short, controlled bursts in the military. This game seems to have completely missed that logic. Just hold down the trigger and you're good to go.

Honestly, I don't care what happens but something has to happen to drop the Assault Rifle down a notch in order to inspire more specialization. It's pointless otherwise. Why use a weapon that only works from 40m+ (laser rifle) when I just use the weapon that can work at maximum efficiency and still cover the range? I like the shotgun but there's not much room for error and sometimes the gun will derp out and not register damage at all (ask some other users about this).

Recoil, Range, Damage, Bullet Spread... Dunno. It's just annoying seeing a stream of bullets flying out of the gun and knowing they're going exactly where they're being aimed at.

Also, it doesn't make any sense lore-wise being as it's Gallentean and almost certainly a blaster, which is supposed to have the shortest range when compared with similar weapons. Makes me think that if we have get a Heavy Blaster similar to an HMG that it's going to have shotgun range, while projectile assault rifles are going to be acing headshots at 150m+......

I've been seeing lots of guys kill people outside of scanner range. I feel like a GEK being fired should light up the shooter on the radar? What are everyone's thoughts?

Lr also needs changing, less armor damage and recoil or some kind of thermal output that disrupts the shooter's pov

Seriously when a guy with a gek does 1000dmg in 1 secon, weapons OP