yeah.. dont whine about that, its a friggin' projected energy laser at a high enough frequency to melt armor. if you're having issues with that, then learn to move fast between cover. the only time LR is dangerous to armor is near the emergency heat vent temp, and that takes over half a battery to do. and there is something to distort sight with the laser rifle, its a bunch of plasma vapors that come up in your face when you aim with it.

Again, Damage Mods without stacking penalties. The weapons are fine, its the Damage Mods.

Again, Damage Mods without stacking penalties. The weapons are fine, its the Damage Mods.

Please read my post(s). I understand that it's a wall of text but the Assault Rifles don't need Damage Mods to be overly lethal with just a few rounds.

500 Damage per Second will kill almost anything in this game, and that's not taking into account the innate bonus from weapon efficiency (110%) or headshot bonuses (165%). Heavies may survive the first second of fire but being as they can't move out of the bullet stream they almost inevitably will NOT survive the second second.

.... Lol. Second second.

Not quite so. While yes, the stacking penalties are not being applied to Damage Mods at this time it really isn't much of a difference.

EVE-Wiki: Stacking Penalties

3x 10% damage modifiers with compound bonus: 33%
3x 10% damage modifiers with no penalty: 30%
3x 10% damage modifiers with stacking penalty: 26.4%

Difference: 5.6% / 2.6% depending on if its compound or not. That's roughly 25 DPS extra for the Duvolle. Not much.

Now 4x modifiers does get a bit broken. 44% compounded vs 29.9% with penalty. That's roughly 75 DPS extra for the Duvolle. But that requires a Proto VK.0 Logi or Proto VK.1 Assault / Logi to fit.

The real problem is the lack of recoil and the clip size as others have stated before. The AR can hit you at 80+ meters dead on with continuous automatic fire and put out near it's full DPS. And since it's so accurate excellent players can get a stream of headshots and just decimate. If there was spread or recoil at longer ranges then the AR would be better. Heck, keeping it's stats the same but having it get more inaccurate the longer you fired would probably stop most of the issues. That would line it up with reality, keep it as a versatile weapon, but ensue that it isn't the King of all Trades it is close to being today.

Have to agree. I played a Type-A and VK.0 Heavy with 1000+ armor. I should fear the Laser Rifle and it's armor melting craziness or the Shotgun and its ability to blast me to shreds. But I actually fear the Assault Rifle and it's ability to seemingly hit me from anywhere, regardless of cover, with a stream of bullets that rips my armor to shreds in half a second with precision accuracy.

Needless to say I don't play Armor Heavies anymore. Losing a 100K Proto Heavy suit to a Duvolle in 1.3 seconds when I had 1000+ HP was infuriating. It very well could be me sucking, or it could be that there's a slight problem when I fear the jack of all trades weapon 50x more than the weapons specifically designed to counter my class (IE: LR and Shotgun).

Yay English!

I agree that the AR isn't 'OP' but it is definitely the Master of all Trades.

I have stopped using other weapons that I *WANT* to use (Mass Driver and Laser Rifle) because I die at least twice, if not three, times more often.

My suggestion would be to have only Advanced tier and higher grades of ARs be fully automatic. All others should be burst fire.

Disagree. This would impact players by forcing them to use a weapon that they may not be accustomed to and (very much in the same sense of what you're going through) force them to use a weapon they don't -want- to use.

I agree that the AR isn't 'OP' but it is definitely the Master of all Trades.

I have stopped using other weapons that I *WANT* to use (Mass Driver and Laser Rifle) because I die at least twice, if not three, times more often.

My suggestion would be to have only Advanced tier and higher grades of ARs be fully automatic. All others should be burst fire.

I praise Aeon Amadi and others for valiantly making the case for balancing the Assault Rifle (yet again), but come on guys, we've been down this road before.
All we did was lose the AR variant that we love the most.... the Tac. (A true precision weapon that required skill.)

As logical and backed by numbers as they may be, I doubt CCP agrees with the arguments. Their actions reveal this:
-Tighter red zones overall were implemented in Ambush, to ensure everyone was within range of AR ( and dropships within range of AV).

- Scopes removed from the full-auto ARs made a superficial and temporary hit to overall AR accuracy. The "kick" and so-called "recoil" added takes a little over 3 seconds to appear, and is BARELY there when it does. (Come on, they knew this didn't change anything.)

If the ARs work as the devs intended, then surely they know that a fully spec'd assault with fully spec'd AR is the King of the battlefield. Niches be damned.

That's why I asked for ARs to become a sidearm, and Vermaak Doe asked for carbine sidearm variants. If the weapon can't be rebalanced, we should at least get access to it.

But I still stand by this OP and the arguments for rebalance presented.

I stated this, actually. The Tactical Assault Rifle needs it's recoil knocked down a notch, the Breach needs a damage increase and the Assault Rifle needs -something- done to it to even it out with all of the other variants.

The Burst I'm mixed about. Not sure why the hell it has a seven round burst but it's just as deadly as the regular Assault Rifle, only difference is the delay between shots at least allows you some breathing room to strafe in between the bullet streams (provided you lived through the first one).

yeah.. dont whine about that, its a friggin' projected energy laser at a high enough frequency to melt armor. if you're having issues with that, then learn to move fast between cover. the only time LR is dangerous to armor is near the emergency heat vent temp, and that takes over half a battery to do. and there is something to distort sight with the laser rifle, its a bunch of plasma vapors that come up in your face when you aim with it.

Problem is unlike the hmg it melts both it's target for a defense (shields) and what it should be doing less damage to (armor). Also I've used it for a long time, I'm pretty sure I've got an accurate critique on it. Also if that really distorts your aim you have brightness too high

100% agree. People had been whining about LR needed a nerf. I've always said it'd be fine if armor had like double the resistance to lasers that it has now.

Quite the contrary, this is only acceptable in the case that there is a weapon of similar design which can work against armor in the same right. 90% efficiency against shields and 135% against armor, vice versa. There currently is no other weapon similar in design and thereby it's fine the way it is.

The assault rifle is the "jack of all trades", which means it functions well in almost all scenarios. Which is also the reason an assault rifle is the "standard" soldier weapon.

More specialised weapons are meant for more specialised tasks. Which means that when they go up against an AR outside of their comfort zone, they should be at a disadvantage.

There is only an issue when an AR actually beats (or equals) a specialised weapon in that weapons role. So, for instance, if you could snipe more efficiently with an AR than a Sniper rifle. Or mow down a cluster of reddots at short to medium range quicker than an HMG.Or destroy a tank faster than a Forge Gun. Etcetera, etcetera.

Now, I'm not saying that that is not the case (though I think it isn't all that bad overall, but there might be some specialised roles that an AR is slightly to good at). But simply saying AR's need to be nerfed in general is way to simplified. If anything, (some of) the specialised weapons need to be buffed in their respective role.

.....With that in mind, the Assault Rifle wins almost all the time simply due to the fact that it's user is inevitably going to be more mobile, more accurate, more versatile and have a substantially tighter bullet spread.....

So the smg, hmg, and mass driver are from my imagination?

I always thought of Heavies as a suppression platform, Assault clears a path to the next cover, heavy moves up and starts laying suppression for the Assault to move to the new cover. Heavy constantly laying down DPS whether there is something there to shoot or not. Make them keep their heads down.

In this case, of course a up close Assault will always win, they are supposed to be more mobile, accurate and versatile. They are the base runners.

(If I didn't misread what you said) you claimed that no other weapon worked against armor in a similar fashion when those weapons clearly do more damage to armor, while not out to the same range the mass driver deals more raw damage

Rather than nerf the AR as was originally suggested I would prefer to see other weapons buffed in their specialised area, HMG's could get a higher ROF (which should increase heat buildup accordingly and muzzle climb as well) thus returning them to the close medium range red berry juicer that they should be IMO (you can even pull it's range back to 50m for all I care) and LRs could get a higher damage at near max range with a reduced close range damage maybe. And that would give you something more than hopes and dreams to try and spec into something other than ARs.

My greatest concern about this topic was realised last night actually where I ran in a match and I was the ONLY player using something other than an AR (call bs if you want but thats what I saw), there where players in different suits, heavy type 2s and scout B series but they were all using advanced to proto AR's, why because in most of the maps we currently play on it is the best weapon for a quickly changing battle as it can offer almost HMG dps (20% less for a standard level weapon) in a package that can fire almost as far as and LR that can be used well in CQC. I don't blame the AR it does what it says on the tin, but I would just like to see more incentive to use the specialised weapons heck I'm thinking about using the AR just so I can stay in the game.

Ok so I don't have the game screen in front of me right now so let's see if I can do this from memory. (Just base stats of the weapon, not counting proficiency and weaponry upgrades or damage mods)

Prototype AR does what, 34 damage per bullet, at roughly 750 rpm, that works out to 750/60=12.5 bullets/sec @ 34 damage each = 34x12.5=425 damage per sec. 34 damage per bullet x 60 in the mag = 2040 per mag. 60 sec / 12.5 bullets per sec = empty mag in 4.8 sec.

Standard HMG does 19 damage per bullet, fires at roughly 2000 rpm, that works out to 2000/60sec = 33.33333333333 (we will say 33.3) bullets/sec @ 19 damage per bullet = 19x33.3= 632.7 damage per sec. 19 damage x 450? in the mag (overheat if constant fire leaves about 120 left) so 330 = 6270 damage per full mag to overheat.

You claim that your suit has an EHP of 1053 and he's dropping you instantly, assuming he lands every shot it requires 1053 EHP / 425 damage per sec = 2.477 sec of sustained fire with 100% accuracy to kill your suit.

The standard HMG does 3.07x more damage per full sustained fire cycle than the prototype AR, and 1.4887x damage over the prototype AR per sec.

Inside each weapons optimal range, you are dead regardless if you can land every shot.
The problem you are having is because of damage mods (which can be applied to both of these types of weapons I have listed)

How does the AR need a nerf?

Rethink your situation and how you got killed, learn from it, learn to counter it instead of just posting yet another stupid "Nerf X because it kills me in Y suit" thread.

TL;DR - READ IT BEFORE YOU MAKE ANOTHER STUPID POST PLEASE.
Also, if there are any errors in actual game values of just the weapons before enhancements (skills or mods) keep in mind this is just from memory and not having any in game into in front of me.

ARs dont have a sight that can really be used......maybe that will change with weapon customization but who knows when that will be implemented. And the issue stating that there is no recoil.............well I dont know what game your playing but if I continuously shoot then at about 25-30 rounds the AR has some pretty extreme recoil. Considering that and the SMG are the only guns that seemingly have recoil I dont consider this an issue.

if I was filimg it I would show, but I have a heavy dropsuit fitting with 100 shield 953 armour and a guy in proto with a kill switch Gek dropped in the instant he seen me