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Jathniel
G I A N T
87
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Posted - 2013.03.17 03:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
The popular viewpoint seems to be that the assault rifle, as a utility weapon, should be able to beat every niche weapon hands down, whether or NOT it's beating that niche weapon in the niche weapon's element.
Niche roles find themselves in often frustrating circumstances once they are in mid-range situations, which is almost all the time.
Essentially, the assault rifle role has an easier time adapting offensively, than the niche roles, and I believe this is a problem. If the AR becomes a sidearm, then everyone will always be able adapt offensively and beat everyone. No more excuses. No more "your weapon is OP" this, "you coward" that. Everything will boil down to that particular player's style and skill, not what he is forced to find himself in.
Assaults can close range on snipers, and can increase range on CQCers, way too easily, depending on the skill and circumstances of the niche players.
And what tends to happen after that range adjustment? The niche player has next to no means of an *even* fight anymore.
We make the assault rifle a sidearm, as has been explored with the 'Black Eagle', and the niche players will at least have a better opportunity for an equal exchange when they are caught out of their element.
The same can be said for assault players, they can have a niche weapon on their main slot, and be somewhat prepared in case they are caught out of their element by a niche player. They see heavies, and can swap to their shot guns, then back to their ARs. While others who are dedicated counter-snipers, can attempt to make the counter snipe, then switch back to their AR.
There is little opportunity for equal firing exchange currently, and I think that's what frustrating a lot of people... Hence why they start calling for weapon nerfs, or changes to the redline to prevent perceived "abuse".
People want an equal opportunity on the battlefield. Making Assault Rifles a sidearm, allows the weapon to serve everyone equally, as it was meant to.
EDIT: Potentially OP builds can be avoided if AR cpu costs are kept as is. |
Wojciak
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.03.17 03:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
i think their should be a variant of the that could be a sidearm but making all ARs a sidearm is a little extreme. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
489
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 03:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
I love it, hell I suggested something similar, but I think it'll recive a lot of hate |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
489
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Posted - 2013.03.17 03:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wojciak wrote:i think their should be a variant of the that could be a sidearm but making all ARs a sidearm is a little extreme. This is pretty much what I suggested, but the thread got buried |
Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 03:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Wojciak wrote:i think their should be a variant of the that could be a sidearm but making all ARs a sidearm is a little extreme.
Full-auto assault rifles only? Then bump up the damage a pinch for the Burst and Tac? (pinch being 5-7 damage)
People don't like using the burst as much, because it doesn't apply the same attack pressure as easily, even though it has their precious scope and a higher RoF. (this is what makes it a balanced weapon requiring skill, just like the Tac AR used to be). It has range, and suffers closer in, as it should.
Bursts have MORE range, and you will decimate everyone, even heavies if you're truly accurate.
The full auto ARs are the ones getting spammed. Rare to see truly sharp and excellent players using Bursts like Gorewrecks or Alloteks...
Let everyone use the full-auto ARs, that way everyone will be able to fight if they find themselves in that circumstance warranting it, and leave the Bursts and Tacs as primaries for assaults that want to stand out as assault specialists (those are the ones that will keep their scopes.) |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
237
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Posted - 2013.03.17 04:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Black Eagle Scout Suit has that as standard. It comes at a high cost though as you lose the low power slots. Besides the Shotgun and AR combination the suit itself is nothing to shout about. The weapons are effectively standard and Only The BE AR can be in the Side Arm Slot, replacement menu only lets you choose existing Side Arms.
It is Pretty but so what? Like a Hat in Team Fortress 2 I suppose.
The existing solution is to Skill up in SMGs. Higher level variants can take down many Mercs in close quarters. If you respecify an Assault Rifle to fit that Side Arm Slot you will essentially have an SMG anyway.
I really don't see CCP/Shanghai changing their view on it nor would I want them to. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 04:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:I love it, hell I suggested something similar, but I think it'll recive a lot of hate
lol because people want an even fight, unless it means an even fight against them? xD |
Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 04:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:The Black Eagle Scout Suit has that as standard. It comes at a high cost though as you lose the low power slots. Besides the Shotgun and AR combination the suit itself is nothing to shout about. The weapons are effectively standard and Only The BE AR can be in the Side Arm Slot, replacement menu only lets you choose existing Side Arms.
It is Pretty but so what? Like a Hat in Team Fortress 2 I suppose.
The existing solution is to Skill up in SMGs. Higher level variants can take down many Mercs in close quarters. If you respecify an Assault Rifle to fit that Side Arm Slot you will essentially have an SMG anyway.
I really don't see CCP/Shanghai changing their view on it nor would I want them to.
I wouldn't fuss the BE suit if it was a blueprint. lol Just stick a BPO sniper rifle on it, and im straight. lol
It's useless otherwise, especially without low slots for profile dampening or a cheap repper.
The suit wasn't the topic though.
I'm skilled up in SMGs. SMG's are anti-armor, not anti-shield. Even the higher-end models won't win a fight against a militia AR, just by the nature of their operation. (and we all know how useless Breach SMGs are) The scrambler is the only other TRUE utility weapon (as in, good vs. everything). They give the person in the circumstance they are in a fighting chance, the full-auto AR as a utility weapon should be available to all.
Just give a slight buff to the scoped variants to appease the assault dedicated players.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 04:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
This works pretty well... Look at the current CPU/PG requirements.
Bursts, Tac, and officer ARs, are regulated to Primary Light Slot.
Regular full autos militia, std, adv, and pro can be fit as sidearms.
Keep the CPU requirements the SAME, and try to fit on two PRO weapons, you WILL pay a price. A cpl less shield extenders? No room for equipment? Only one usable low slot?
The price is paid for total versatility, and it eliminates most of the cries for nerfs, since folks will have the grounds for "equal opportunity of weapon's exchange" that they so desire. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 04:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
If this topic interests you please visit: Sidearm Suggestions |
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Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 04:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Wojciak wrote:i think their should be a variant of the that could be a sidearm but making all ARs a sidearm is a little extreme. This is pretty much what I suggested, but the thread got buried
It's a remedy to a number of irritating problems.
Can't let it get buried again. Going to run this by corpmates and friends. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
88
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Posted - 2013.03.17 06:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bumping. This one and Vermaak Doe's Thread
Need more input on this. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 07:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
It seems like you just want to be able to make a fit that will allow you to fill multiple roles and handle every situation by yourself. Every class and weapon has a specific role and you have to use teamwork to be effective, that is the basis of this game. Of course the assault rifle is dominant in mid range engagements, that is what an assault rifle is made for, that is its role. Snipers should not be close enough to the combat or in such an easily accessible place for an assault class to close on him and a CQC player should have the speed to close on the assault using cover and surprise. In fact CQC players don't even necessarily need speed, just stay in tight spaces like they're supposed to, that is the definition of CQC.
The assault rifle is the backbone of every military force, to make them a sidearm is a step towards making the game more "arcade-y."
How annoying would it be to fight heavies that have both an HMG and an AR? Lol |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
494
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
It makes people branch out while not losing their comfort zone, this way the battlefield won't be full of just Ars since it is by far the most common weapon. Which is why i suggested having less effective versions of primary weapons that can fit in a secondary slot |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh so you're not saying make the GEK or Duvolle able to be fitted as secondary weapon? That's what I thought you were suggesting. Lol. Maybe something with a little more damage and range than the smgs? I think it could be difficult to balance it properly but it could probably work somehow. The thing is you can train up your smg skills and they pretty much fill the role you're talking about. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
495
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
The point of this thread is to let full auto Ars go into a secondary slot (which isn't a bad idea when you consider the pg and cpu drain for a weapon you may or may not use hence the title secondary) but the thread I made (which the author of this thread has linked). It is already seen as a standard weapon and in most cases only Current Ar users would use this because the ar is the only weapon without a dominating range. What the smg lacks is acuracy and range while the scrambler lacks ROF so while it will be a preferred secondary it won't make the others useless. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:The point of this thread is to let full auto Ars go into a secondary slot
So you are saying allow the GEK and Duvolle to be fitted as secondary. That just doesn't make sense. If you want to use an AR then use an AR. If you want to be a sniper then stay away from heavy combat. If you want to be CQC then stay in tight quarters. that seems pretty simple. You can't have the best of both worlds. Players are supposed to decide on a role they want to fill, not be able to fill multiple roles as one class. Pick your class based on your preferred play style and perfect it. I don't see a problem with how the weapons are set up currently. Players that are good at their role are effective. There have been plenty of times where I've been trying to get away from a shotgun scout and wasn't able to. When you do what you're supposed to with your weapon of choice it's effective. If you're running around in the open with a shotgun you deserve to be killed quickly, and the same goes for snipers that aren't hiding somewhere distant. If you don't choose to use a weapon that is effective at mid range, then don't get into that range. The secondary is a last ditch effort weapon, not a weapon to fill your class is weak. Every class is supposed to have its weakness. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
497
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 09:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
How do you fill a role with a weapon that is all purpose? One such a jack of all trades that it's outdone by other weapons at their effective ranges. And how is what we already have any different? This would just allow more flexible tools to be used for a job instead which is why more primary weapons are specialized than secondary. The fact that you keep specifically naming two Ars shows that you have a personal vendetta against those ars which makes your opinion much less reliable. That is a sidearm which is.a last ditch weapon, a secondary is a weapon which can go in the place of your primary but is different in a way that maked.it the first choice for most situations. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 09:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote: a secondary is a weapon which can go in the place of your primary but is different in a way that maked.it the first choice for most situations.
What you are saying is that you want a secondary weapon, that you put in your primary slot, but its not your primary weapon...? This really isn't making sense...
A shotgun can easily beat an AR at close range they can even one shot heavies on occasion for Christs sake, and a sniper rifle can easily beat an AR at long range, an AR can only shoot out to a range of around 80m a sniper is effective to at least 600m as far as I know. It's a matter if you are using them as you should. I'm naming those two because those are examples of full auto assault rifles which you keep referring to as the weapons that should be allowed to be equipped as secondary weapons. I don't have a "vendetta" against them, I use them, how could I have a vendetta against the weapons I use? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
497
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 09:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
A secondary weapon is a weapon that works as well as a primary but is held at a different level of usefulness, which you apparently don't understand. Those are weapons that have a defined role and therefore are viable primary weapons while the Ar does not and you have yet to disprove. In this case it seema like you have too much of an ego to let your primary weapon be put in a secondary slot. Again, specialized weapons go in primary slots, also a 1/10 for that fail filled troll |
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Thrillhouse Van Houten
DIOS EX.
28
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Posted - 2013.03.17 09:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
ARs are useless against vehicles. ARs normally get eaten alive against HMGs or SMGs or Shottys in CQC. ARs get raped by good LRs and snipers if they can't get close enough.
This suggestion sounds good on paper but wouldn't pass battlefield inspection, I think. You'd give a HMG guy the ability to swap to a mid-range weapon? So what if you keep the CPU/PG the same...He loses 30-something shields and can **** nearly everyone in mid and close combat. How about a Sniper? So he snipes until ANYONE gets close enough to hit him with anything but another Sniper and then flops out his Duvolle and kicks their half dead ass.
You say it would let everyone focus on their niche but it sounds like all it does is make every niche that isn't mid range obsolete mid range combatants. Good for everyone except guys who currently use ARs. ARs are SUPPOSED to be the most common.
I say tweak the damage/range/RoF/spread by millimeters until you achieve balance. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
96
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Posted - 2013.03.17 10:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote:ARs are useless against vehicles. ARs normally get eaten alive against HMGs or SMGs or Shottys in CQC. ARs get raped by good LRs and snipers if they can't get close enough.
This suggestion sounds good on paper but wouldn't pass battlefield inspection, I think. You'd give a HMG guy the ability to swap to a mid-range weapon? So what if you keep the CPU/PG the same...He loses 30-something shields and can **** nearly everyone in mid and close combat. How about a Sniper? So he snipes until ANYONE gets close enough to hit him with anything but another Sniper and then flops out his Duvolle and kicks their half dead ass.
You say it would let everyone focus on their niche but it sounds like all it does is make every niche that isn't mid range obsolete mid range combatants. Good for everyone except guys who currently use ARs. ARs are SUPPOSED to be the most common.
Precisely.
You however imply a disparity that would not exist.
For everytime that heavy with the HMG pulls out his AR, he potentially now has another 2 or 3 shotguns aiming back at him.
For every sniper that pulls out his Duvolle to defend himself at mid-range, he potentially has 2 or 3 counter-snipers on the ground trying to pick him off.
(This concept has already been experienced with the Black Eagle set. Was it game-breaking like you imply? No. lol)
ARs are supposed to be common, just like you said. Just because someone specializes doesn't mean they should lose the usefulness of their AR. The guys that want their AR as their primary can use buffed versions of the Burst and Tac, since those have the scopes. Assault primaries aren't losing anything. lol
Specializing should be a reward in addition to basic gun game. A niche to add on to your utility, and if you do NOT want a niche weapon, then you have the better burst and tac ARs to expand the range and precision of your utility.
Players will still do what they want. The AR will simply be the generic weapon for everyone as it should be. Sniper with ARs aren't invulnerable. (I'm sure you've killed logis and scouts running with ARs before. lol) Heavies with ARs aren't invulnerable either. (We even make fun of them for NOT using an HMG.)
You will still have the distinct defensive advantages of the assault suit. But the flexibility of the basic AR, which you yourself admit should be most common, will now be readily available as a sidearm.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
96
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Posted - 2013.03.17 10:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
TokeySmugBoat wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:The point of this thread is to let full auto Ars go into a secondary slot So you are saying allow the GEK and Duvolle to be fitted as secondary. That just doesn't make sense. If you want to use an AR then use an AR. If you want to be a sniper then stay away from heavy combat. If you want to be CQC then stay in tight quarters. that seems pretty simple. You can't have the best of both worlds. Players are supposed to decide on a role they want to fill, not be able to fill multiple roles as one class. Pick your class based on your preferred play style and perfect it. I don't see a problem with how the weapons are set up currently. Players that are good at their role are effective. There have been plenty of times where I've been trying to get away from a shotgun scout and wasn't able to. When you do what you're supposed to with your weapon of choice it's effective. If you're running around in the open with a shotgun you deserve to be killed quickly, and the same goes for snipers that aren't hiding somewhere distant. If you don't choose to use a weapon that is effective at mid range, then don't get into that range. The secondary is a last ditch effort weapon, not a weapon to fill your class is weak. Every class is supposed to have its weakness.
Notice what you said: AR users can use the AR. But snipers HAVE to run, and CQC HAS to hide. What determines this? The weapon one uses.
No. A sniper needs distance ONLY when he needs to snipe, and a CQCer has to hide only when he's out of range and exposed. It's the weapon that defines the terms of the circumstance.
Watch as you make my case for me. Please if you will, answer me these questions:
What difference does it make if you shoot someone with a scout suit using an AR on top of a mountain, or down by an objective? It's still just a scout suit using an AR correct? What unfair advantage does a scout suit with an AR have?
If that scout suit was sniping from the top of a mountain, and had an AR as a sidearm, what difference would that AR make then? So if you go up the mountain to stop that scout suit from sniping, what difference would it make if he pulled out an AR to defend himself, or pulled out an SMG or some other weapon? You're the one in the assault suit. You have the advantage do you not? Even if he pulled out an AR, he is still likely to die. The AR would still simply be a last ditch survival attempt, as he is caught out of his element.
Now consider this, lets say you are a specialist assault. Say you go up that mountain to shoot at that scout suit. You are using your shiny new Allotek, a weapon that isn't allowed as a sidearm. You shoot at the scout suit, he tries to shoot back with his duvolle, but since he has no scope, behold, you are just out of a comfortable aiming range for him. He shoots, he misses. You shoot, you score. You do believe that an AR with a scope provides a distinct aiming and accuracy advantage do you not? |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
22
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 12:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is, honestly, a brilliant idea. Some of the racial variants could be modeled after carbines (shortened full ARs that fire the same ammunition as full ARs). These carbines could be fitted in the sidearm slot. They would be less effective in CQC than Subs and shottys, but still have have decent versatility. The carbine would essentially be a slightly less effective full Assault rifle (slightly less range and damage but still has the same old renowned versatility as it's AR older brother).
Full assault rifles should still need to be fitted to a LIGHT slot, but there should also be the option for the alternative described above. It's perfect considering more racial weapons are coming.
This is also a good way to balance the battlefield as well. People will be able to better defend themselves against infantry when they equip swarm launchers to fend off the tank spam in an ambush match. Don't get me wrong, they won't be as effective at killing infantry than a guy with a real assault rifle, but at least swarm launcher noobs won't be a (completely) free kill anymore.
Another good point about this idea is that this mechanic will be familiar to those who play Battlefield 3 and Halo. In battlefield, the engineer class typically has RPGs and javelins while equiping whatever they want as a primary. And in Halo, you have even more freedom.
Dust 514 is supposed to be a sandbox game, this idea fits perfectly with that concept, allowing players to create unique fits and are functional and fun to play.
I seriously hope a DEV sees this. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 18:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:TokeySmugBoat wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:The point of this thread is to let full auto Ars go into a secondary slot So you are saying allow the GEK and Duvolle to be fitted as secondary. That just doesn't make sense. If you want to use an AR then use an AR. If you want to be a sniper then stay away from heavy combat. If you want to be CQC then stay in tight quarters. that seems pretty simple. You can't have the best of both worlds. Players are supposed to decide on a role they want to fill, not be able to fill multiple roles as one class. Pick your class based on your preferred play style and perfect it. I don't see a problem with how the weapons are set up currently. Players that are good at their role are effective. There have been plenty of times where I've been trying to get away from a shotgun scout and wasn't able to. When you do what you're supposed to with your weapon of choice it's effective. If you're running around in the open with a shotgun you deserve to be killed quickly, and the same goes for snipers that aren't hiding somewhere distant. If you don't choose to use a weapon that is effective at mid range, then don't get into that range. The secondary is a last ditch effort weapon, not a weapon to fill your class is weak. Every class is supposed to have its weakness. Notice what you said: AR users can use the AR. But snipers HAVE to run, and CQC HAS to hide. What determines this? The weapon one uses. No. A sniper needs distance ONLY when he needs to snipe, and a CQCer has to hide only when he's out of range and exposed. It's the weapon that defines the terms of the circumstance. Watch as you make my case for me. Please if you will, answer me these questions: What difference does it make if you shoot someone with a scout suit using an AR on top of a mountain, or down by an objective? It's still just a scout suit using an AR correct? What unfair advantage does a scout suit with an AR have? If that scout suit was sniping from the top of a mountain, and had an AR as a sidearm, what difference would that AR make then? So if you go up the mountain to stop that scout suit from sniping, what difference would it make if he pulled out an AR to defend himself, or pulled out an SMG or some other weapon? You're the one in the assault suit. You have the advantage do you not? Even if he pulled out an AR, he is still likely to die. The AR would still simply be a last ditch survival attempt, as he is caught out of his element. Now consider this, lets say you are a specialist assault. Say you go up that mountain to shoot at that scout suit. You are using your shiny new Allotek, a weapon that isn't allowed as a sidearm. You shoot at the scout suit, he tries to shoot back with his duvolle, but since he has no scope, behold, you are just out of a comfortable aiming range for him. He shoots, he misses. You shoot, you score. You do believe that an AR with a scope provides a distinct aiming and accuracy advantage do you not?
Yes, a sniper needs distance ONLY if he needs to snipe, which should be all the time, because he is a sniper, that is the role he has chosen. The CQC doesn't need to hide, he only needs to stay in close quarters, which funny enough is what the "CQ" part of "CQC" means. The CQC player should be inside of a building, or in an area that offers lots of cover to use in closing distance. If you are on a very open map, the select a different class as CQC is not needed.
The advantage come from the sniper being able to snipe from a distance, and if you get close he can pull out a very powerful AR that can take most suits down very quickly. This takes away the advantage the assault player should have and the weakness that the scout is supposed to have. The difference is in what weapon he can switch to the power of the weapons, obviously. Are you suggesting that an SMG has the same stopping power as the AR? And if you are, why push for ARs to be secondary weapons? There is a HUGE difference between a Duvolle and an SMG, I know you know that. A last ditch effort weapon shouldn't be just as powerful, if not more powerful, than any other weapon on the battlefield.
No I don't believe that, it just looks different when you aim, that's all. Whether its a white dot on iron sights, or the center of crosshairs, all you need to do is have it centered on your target.
I completely agree with the idea Protocake JR brought up and stated something similar previously in this thread. That is a great idea and I wouldn't be surprised to see it implemented in the game soon. Less range, less damage, just as the sidearm is supposed to be. +1 |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 18:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:A secondary weapon is a weapon that works as well as a primary but is held at a different level of usefulness, which you apparently don't understand. Those are weapons that have a defined role and therefore are viable primary weapons while the Ar does not and you have yet to disprove. In this case it seema like you have too much of an ego to let your primary weapon be put in a secondary slot. Again, specialized weapons go in primary slots, also a 1/10 for that fail filled troll
No I get that, you should've said that in the first place. What I didn't get is when you said that a secondary is a weapon that goes in the place of your primary. That doesn't make any sense.
Their purpose is to be the brunt of the fighting force while the specialists use their weapons for their purpose. I don't have too much of an ego to not want my gun to be equipped as a secondary. I would LOVE to fit two duvolles to a suit, it would be great to be able to switch to another Duvolle instead of reloading when there are a lot of targets. Lol.
I'm not trolling, you just started to get butthurt that someone's opinion was different than yours. At this point it's not even about the topic, you just want to be argumentative. So I'm just gonna go ahead and let this one go. It was nice speaking with you, have a good one. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
97
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 19:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:This is, honestly, a brilliant idea. Some of the racial variants could be modeled after carbines (shortened full ARs that fire the same ammunition as full ARs). These carbines could be fitted in the sidearm slot. They would be less effective in CQC than Subs and shottys, but still have have decent versatility. The carbine would essentially be a slightly less effective full Assault rifle (slightly less range and damage but still has the same old renowned versatility as it's AR older brother).
Full assault rifles should still need to be fitted to a LIGHT slot, but there should also be the option for the alternative described above. It's perfect considering more racial weapons are coming.
This is also a good way to balance the battlefield as well. People will be able to better defend themselves against infantry when they equip swarm launchers to fend off the tank spam in an ambush match. Don't get me wrong, they won't be as effective at killing infantry than a guy with a real assault rifle, but at least swarm launcher noobs won't be a (completely) free kill anymore.
Another good point about this idea is that this mechanic will be familiar to those who play Battlefield 3 and Halo. In battlefield, the engineer class typically has RPGs and javelins while equiping whatever they want as a primary. And in Halo, you have even more freedom.
Dust 514 is supposed to be a sandbox game, this idea fits perfectly with that concept, allowing players to create unique fits and are functional and fun to play.
I seriously hope a DEV sees this.
Well, if we go that route, I would rather that carbine still be allowed the same range and damage as a full AR, just give it a smaller clip. 30-40 rounds.
+1 |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
504
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 19:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ha, you bitching instead of actually making a point using facts yet you call me butthurt? |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 19:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Protocake JR wrote:This is, honestly, a brilliant idea. Some of the racial variants could be modeled after carbines (shortened full ARs that fire the same ammunition as full ARs). These carbines could be fitted in the sidearm slot. They would be less effective in CQC than Subs and shottys, but still have have decent versatility. The carbine would essentially be a slightly less effective full Assault rifle (slightly less range and damage but still has the same old renowned versatility as it's AR older brother).
Full assault rifles should still need to be fitted to a LIGHT slot, but there should also be the option for the alternative described above. It's perfect considering more racial weapons are coming.
This is also a good way to balance the battlefield as well. People will be able to better defend themselves against infantry when they equip swarm launchers to fend off the tank spam in an ambush match. Don't get me wrong, they won't be as effective at killing infantry than a guy with a real assault rifle, but at least swarm launcher noobs won't be a (completely) free kill anymore.
Another good point about this idea is that this mechanic will be familiar to those who play Battlefield 3 and Halo. In battlefield, the engineer class typically has RPGs and javelins while equiping whatever they want as a primary. And in Halo, you have even more freedom.
Dust 514 is supposed to be a sandbox game, this idea fits perfectly with that concept, allowing players to create unique fits and are functional and fun to play.
I seriously hope a DEV sees this. Well, if we go that route, I would rather that carbine still be allowed the same range and damage as a full AR, just give it a smaller clip. 30-40 rounds. +1
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Jathniel
G I A N T
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Posted - 2013.03.17 19:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
TokeySmugBoat wrote:
Yes, a sniper needs distance ONLY if he needs to snipe, which should be all the time, because he is a sniper, that is the role he has chosen. The CQC doesn't need to hide, he only needs to stay in close quarters, which funny enough is what the "CQ" part of "CQC" means. The CQC player should be inside of a building, or in an area that offers lots of cover to use in closing distance. If you are on a very open map, then select a different class as CQC is not needed.
The advantage comes from the sniper being able to snipe from a distance, and if you get close he can pull out a very powerful AR that can take most suits down very quickly. This takes away the advantage the assault player should have and the weakness that the scout is supposed to have. The difference is in what weapon he can switch to the power of the weapons, obviously. Are you suggesting that an SMG has the same stopping power as the AR? And if you are, why push for ARs to be secondary weapons? There is a HUGE difference between a Duvolle and an SMG, I know you know that. A last ditch effort weapon shouldn't be just as powerful, if not more powerful, than any other weapon on the battlefield.
No I don't believe that, it just looks different when you aim, that's all. Whether its a white dot on iron sights, or the center of crosshairs, all you need to do is have it centered on your target.
I completely agree with the idea Protocake JR brought up and stated something similar previously in this thread. That is a great idea and I wouldn't be surprised to see it implemented in the game soon. I would love to have a carbine on my AV class. Less range, less damage, just as the sidearm is supposed to be. +1
Consider, what I highlighted in bold. I agree, this SHOULD be the case, but over time CCP made changes that made this both impossible and impractical, and a lot of players have been on forums demanding more changes to the game, to further reduce sniper's effectiveness. Same goes for the heavy, he SHOULD be in his element at all times, but this just doesn't happen. That's why the AR should be a sidearm, because in the end everyone is a frontline man.
The advantage for that sniper, that can shoot from a distance, and have an AR to defend himself is fitting. Unless you think it proper that a sniper be totally defenseless when you close in on him. You KNOW an SMG has next to no stopping power, that's why I asked that question. The ONLY weakness that should be exploited for the scout is the poor defense, and for the heavy, the poor mobility, and THOSE weaknesses are what should determine how they play on the battlefield; not their weapon or ability to counter-attack. Allies can better push together, and a sniper would be more willing to attempt to capture objectives of opportunity.
An assault doesn't have a distinct advantage by exploiting when someone cannot fight back, as you imply. An assault is simply using his utility weapon, he has no advantage to lose from it becoming a sidearm. In the end, his suit is still stronger than the scout, when it comes to AR vs. AR, and he still has better mobility than a heavy. People come on forums demanding that snipers be better exposed (in the name of Fair Gameplay), simply because they like flanking them, and exploiting how vulnerable they are. This would still be possible if the AR is a sidearm, but the fight would truly be fair now. The scrambler pistol can eat suits alive even better than the AR, but no one worries about them, why? Because they know the ADS is crap for it, and they know that current sidearms are clunky and weak, and next to impractical to use. There is nothing wrong with your last-ditch weapon being a powerful weapon, its called a trump card. The current system and operation of the AR allows unrivalled battlefield control.
If the AR is made into a sidearm, niche roles will become far more vital.
If you have a Black Eagle suit, please try it. Attach a sniper rifle as a primary, and keep the AR secondary. Just try it, and see if that performance disparity that you fear is warranted. |
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