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TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 07:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems like you just want to be able to make a fit that will allow you to fill multiple roles and handle every situation by yourself. Every class and weapon has a specific role and you have to use teamwork to be effective, that is the basis of this game. Of course the assault rifle is dominant in mid range engagements, that is what an assault rifle is made for, that is its role. Snipers should not be close enough to the combat or in such an easily accessible place for an assault class to close on him and a CQC player should have the speed to close on the assault using cover and surprise. In fact CQC players don't even necessarily need speed, just stay in tight spaces like they're supposed to, that is the definition of CQC.
The assault rifle is the backbone of every military force, to make them a sidearm is a step towards making the game more "arcade-y."
How annoying would it be to fight heavies that have both an HMG and an AR? Lol |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 08:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh so you're not saying make the GEK or Duvolle able to be fitted as secondary weapon? That's what I thought you were suggesting. Lol. Maybe something with a little more damage and range than the smgs? I think it could be difficult to balance it properly but it could probably work somehow. The thing is you can train up your smg skills and they pretty much fill the role you're talking about. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 08:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:The point of this thread is to let full auto Ars go into a secondary slot
So you are saying allow the GEK and Duvolle to be fitted as secondary. That just doesn't make sense. If you want to use an AR then use an AR. If you want to be a sniper then stay away from heavy combat. If you want to be CQC then stay in tight quarters. that seems pretty simple. You can't have the best of both worlds. Players are supposed to decide on a role they want to fill, not be able to fill multiple roles as one class. Pick your class based on your preferred play style and perfect it. I don't see a problem with how the weapons are set up currently. Players that are good at their role are effective. There have been plenty of times where I've been trying to get away from a shotgun scout and wasn't able to. When you do what you're supposed to with your weapon of choice it's effective. If you're running around in the open with a shotgun you deserve to be killed quickly, and the same goes for snipers that aren't hiding somewhere distant. If you don't choose to use a weapon that is effective at mid range, then don't get into that range. The secondary is a last ditch effort weapon, not a weapon to fill your class is weak. Every class is supposed to have its weakness. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 09:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote: a secondary is a weapon which can go in the place of your primary but is different in a way that maked.it the first choice for most situations.
What you are saying is that you want a secondary weapon, that you put in your primary slot, but its not your primary weapon...? This really isn't making sense...
A shotgun can easily beat an AR at close range they can even one shot heavies on occasion for Christs sake, and a sniper rifle can easily beat an AR at long range, an AR can only shoot out to a range of around 80m a sniper is effective to at least 600m as far as I know. It's a matter if you are using them as you should. I'm naming those two because those are examples of full auto assault rifles which you keep referring to as the weapons that should be allowed to be equipped as secondary weapons. I don't have a "vendetta" against them, I use them, how could I have a vendetta against the weapons I use? |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 18:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:TokeySmugBoat wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:The point of this thread is to let full auto Ars go into a secondary slot So you are saying allow the GEK and Duvolle to be fitted as secondary. That just doesn't make sense. If you want to use an AR then use an AR. If you want to be a sniper then stay away from heavy combat. If you want to be CQC then stay in tight quarters. that seems pretty simple. You can't have the best of both worlds. Players are supposed to decide on a role they want to fill, not be able to fill multiple roles as one class. Pick your class based on your preferred play style and perfect it. I don't see a problem with how the weapons are set up currently. Players that are good at their role are effective. There have been plenty of times where I've been trying to get away from a shotgun scout and wasn't able to. When you do what you're supposed to with your weapon of choice it's effective. If you're running around in the open with a shotgun you deserve to be killed quickly, and the same goes for snipers that aren't hiding somewhere distant. If you don't choose to use a weapon that is effective at mid range, then don't get into that range. The secondary is a last ditch effort weapon, not a weapon to fill your class is weak. Every class is supposed to have its weakness. Notice what you said: AR users can use the AR. But snipers HAVE to run, and CQC HAS to hide. What determines this? The weapon one uses. No. A sniper needs distance ONLY when he needs to snipe, and a CQCer has to hide only when he's out of range and exposed. It's the weapon that defines the terms of the circumstance. Watch as you make my case for me. Please if you will, answer me these questions: What difference does it make if you shoot someone with a scout suit using an AR on top of a mountain, or down by an objective? It's still just a scout suit using an AR correct? What unfair advantage does a scout suit with an AR have? If that scout suit was sniping from the top of a mountain, and had an AR as a sidearm, what difference would that AR make then? So if you go up the mountain to stop that scout suit from sniping, what difference would it make if he pulled out an AR to defend himself, or pulled out an SMG or some other weapon? You're the one in the assault suit. You have the advantage do you not? Even if he pulled out an AR, he is still likely to die. The AR would still simply be a last ditch survival attempt, as he is caught out of his element. Now consider this, lets say you are a specialist assault. Say you go up that mountain to shoot at that scout suit. You are using your shiny new Allotek, a weapon that isn't allowed as a sidearm. You shoot at the scout suit, he tries to shoot back with his duvolle, but since he has no scope, behold, you are just out of a comfortable aiming range for him. He shoots, he misses. You shoot, you score. You do believe that an AR with a scope provides a distinct aiming and accuracy advantage do you not?
Yes, a sniper needs distance ONLY if he needs to snipe, which should be all the time, because he is a sniper, that is the role he has chosen. The CQC doesn't need to hide, he only needs to stay in close quarters, which funny enough is what the "CQ" part of "CQC" means. The CQC player should be inside of a building, or in an area that offers lots of cover to use in closing distance. If you are on a very open map, the select a different class as CQC is not needed.
The advantage come from the sniper being able to snipe from a distance, and if you get close he can pull out a very powerful AR that can take most suits down very quickly. This takes away the advantage the assault player should have and the weakness that the scout is supposed to have. The difference is in what weapon he can switch to the power of the weapons, obviously. Are you suggesting that an SMG has the same stopping power as the AR? And if you are, why push for ARs to be secondary weapons? There is a HUGE difference between a Duvolle and an SMG, I know you know that. A last ditch effort weapon shouldn't be just as powerful, if not more powerful, than any other weapon on the battlefield.
No I don't believe that, it just looks different when you aim, that's all. Whether its a white dot on iron sights, or the center of crosshairs, all you need to do is have it centered on your target.
I completely agree with the idea Protocake JR brought up and stated something similar previously in this thread. That is a great idea and I wouldn't be surprised to see it implemented in the game soon. Less range, less damage, just as the sidearm is supposed to be. +1 |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 18:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:A secondary weapon is a weapon that works as well as a primary but is held at a different level of usefulness, which you apparently don't understand. Those are weapons that have a defined role and therefore are viable primary weapons while the Ar does not and you have yet to disprove. In this case it seema like you have too much of an ego to let your primary weapon be put in a secondary slot. Again, specialized weapons go in primary slots, also a 1/10 for that fail filled troll
No I get that, you should've said that in the first place. What I didn't get is when you said that a secondary is a weapon that goes in the place of your primary. That doesn't make any sense.
Their purpose is to be the brunt of the fighting force while the specialists use their weapons for their purpose. I don't have too much of an ego to not want my gun to be equipped as a secondary. I would LOVE to fit two duvolles to a suit, it would be great to be able to switch to another Duvolle instead of reloading when there are a lot of targets. Lol.
I'm not trolling, you just started to get butthurt that someone's opinion was different than yours. At this point it's not even about the topic, you just want to be argumentative. So I'm just gonna go ahead and let this one go. It was nice speaking with you, have a good one. |
TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.17 19:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Protocake JR wrote:This is, honestly, a brilliant idea. Some of the racial variants could be modeled after carbines (shortened full ARs that fire the same ammunition as full ARs). These carbines could be fitted in the sidearm slot. They would be less effective in CQC than Subs and shottys, but still have have decent versatility. The carbine would essentially be a slightly less effective full Assault rifle (slightly less range and damage but still has the same old renowned versatility as it's AR older brother).
Full assault rifles should still need to be fitted to a LIGHT slot, but there should also be the option for the alternative described above. It's perfect considering more racial weapons are coming.
This is also a good way to balance the battlefield as well. People will be able to better defend themselves against infantry when they equip swarm launchers to fend off the tank spam in an ambush match. Don't get me wrong, they won't be as effective at killing infantry than a guy with a real assault rifle, but at least swarm launcher noobs won't be a (completely) free kill anymore.
Another good point about this idea is that this mechanic will be familiar to those who play Battlefield 3 and Halo. In battlefield, the engineer class typically has RPGs and javelins while equiping whatever they want as a primary. And in Halo, you have even more freedom.
Dust 514 is supposed to be a sandbox game, this idea fits perfectly with that concept, allowing players to create unique fits and are functional and fun to play.
I seriously hope a DEV sees this. Well, if we go that route, I would rather that carbine still be allowed the same range and damage as a full AR, just give it a smaller clip. 30-40 rounds. +1
+1
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TokeySmugBoat
Ill Omens
1
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Posted - 2013.03.18 07:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote:Still disagree Jathniel.
All this suggestion does is make a sniper long + mid range and a Shotty/HMG guy mid + close range. It won't encourage people to branch out and use the specialization they "want to use" but can't because ARs are too powerful. It'll just add to the kill counts of CQC guys and Snipers. It takes fractions of seconds to switch weapons. Arguing that a HMG guy will be more helpless if he has to roll out his HMG after using his AR makes me laugh. I never seem to have trouble rolling out my scrambler when I use my Assault suit.
You can't use a SINGLE suit that almost nobody CHOOSES to use as the rubric for why this idea would absolutely work, no questions asked. You aren't asking for a Scout variation that can use an AR and another primary, either. You're asking for Assault and Heavy suits to be able to do it. You don't see how that is different and has massive potential to gum up every gear in the machinery of this game?
If you nerf full auto ARs and buff breach, burst and tactical ARs...then MAYBE. If you nuke the range on ARs (because they are blasters...or whatever excuse you want) you absolutely MUST shorten the range on HMGs, too. If HMGs can out range an AR...they obsolete them. In fact, ditto with SMGs too. Faster RoF and bigger clip but equal range and close damage? Obsolete AR. An Eq slot doesn't make up for doing candyass damage, either...
Still, lets just make every weapon able to to be put in a sidearm slot. Better yet, so people can specialize in two specialties, lets just add another weapons slot. That way everyone can use their specialty, an AR and a sidearm. Or two specialties (until someone complains that those two-specialty guys can't use an AR, too). Gimme a break. This whole idea smacks of "I wanna blow **** up with my Forge Gun but use an AR too."
I'm sticking with my original suggestion. Slowly tick down the range and damage of full auto ARs until they are more balanced.
In an attempt to "balance" ARs you forget a goddamn huge point, too. Not every suit has a sidearm slot. If you make every class but Logistics able to use what would amount to two "primary" strength weapons, you basically make every class except Logistics that much more powerful. Hey, maybe they could take off that pesky triage timer...then I can get 2500 WP with my Logi again...
We cold even take it further and just keep adding weapon slots. That way everyone would be able to carry every weapon for every situation and no one would have to have a weakness!
And stop making so much sense, you're going to cause this thread to come to an end... |
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