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ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Almost every game in the history of video games has picked one or the other, or, varied on the weapons (snipers kick, assaults disperse) for a very good reason as well, kick is random, dispersion is random, to have both is just making a game take less skill, snipers only have kick, HMG's only have dispersion, lasers don't have anything (lolololol), why does the assault rifle have BOTH?
also give me back my camera sight kthxbai. |
Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
63
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Posted - 2013.03.16 19:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wait, are you saying assault rifles are too inaccurate? |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kesi Raae Kaae wrote:Wait, are you saying assault rifles are too inaccurate?
I'm saying they're not designed properly for competitive play. |
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki
Onward Defrosted Tuna Team
519
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Because games like Call of Duty and Battlefield are more spray and pray oriented.
You can more think of this game's mechanics more like Counter Strike, you get rewarded for not just holding down a button.
Also the HMG does have kick when it is firing for long enough.
And another reason could be racial. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
457
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Posted - 2013.03.16 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because burst firing, that's why. |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
80
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Many game designers will tell you for a competitive multiplayer game you need a certain degree of random so new players aren't destroyed by those who have played the game for a long time and instantly turned off. Not that a long time player shouldn't be better than a new player, but the new player has to feel like he at least has a chance so he doesn't quit. Randomness helps this.
Also if you are saying the Assault Rifle suffers because of this then . . . . The Assault Rifle is the easiest weapon to use and get kills with in this game. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote:Because games like Call of Duty and Battlefield are more spray and pray oriented.
You can more think of this game's mechanics more like Counter Strike, you get rewarded for not just holding down a button.
Also the HMG does have kick when it is firing for long enough.
And another reason could be racial.
Counter-strike has a more real headshot bonus though, plus I can't even ******* see what I'm shooting at because of lolirons, I'm thinking of this game more of like a halo, because that's the closest thing I can compare it to. dead on accuracy please more strafe speed less/elimination of dispersion on weapons with kick. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:Many game designers will tell you for a competitive multiplayer game you need a certain degree of random so new players aren't destroyed by those who have played the game for a long time and instantly turned off. Not that a long time player shouldn't be better than a new player, but the new player has to feel like he at least has a chance so he doesn't quit. Randomness helps this. Also if you are saying the Assault Rifle suffers because of this then . . . . The Assault Rifle is the easiest weapon to use and get kills with in this game.
The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun?
I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 19:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Because burst firing, that's why. This might be the best argument, but I'm still highly against kick, I have my own strategies to almost completely eliminate kick but still not everyone is as... observant as I in the ways I am and they might not realize this making me win just because I'm smarter instead of because I have more skill, I don't like winning if they're better than me. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
458
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun?
I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win.
If you're so elite, then you shouldn't really have a problem with either kick or dispersion, now should you? |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
458
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Because burst firing, that's why. This might be the best argument, but I'm still highly against kick, I have my own strategies to almost completely eliminate kick but still not everyone is as... observant as I in the ways I am and they might not realize this making me win just because I'm smarter instead of because I have more skill, I don't like winning if they're better than me. You just said the game shouldn't be designed around scrubbies... now you're saying it should? |
Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1130
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Exile ftw. Although I can use Duvolles, Exile just feels better. |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
81
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Delirium Inferno wrote:Many game designers will tell you for a competitive multiplayer game you need a certain degree of random so new players aren't destroyed by those who have played the game for a long time and instantly turned off. Not that a long time player shouldn't be better than a new player, but the new player has to feel like he at least has a chance so he doesn't quit. Randomness helps this. Also if you are saying the Assault Rifle suffers because of this then . . . . The Assault Rifle is the easiest weapon to use and get kills with in this game. The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun? I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win. Assault Rifle is much easier than Shotgun. There seems to be this common misconception among shooter fans that aiming = all the skill. Honestly, aiming is not that hard. Most the skill in shooters come from knowing where to be, how to best approach a situation, and appropriately reacting to enemy actions. With Assault Rifles you can easily keep a safe distance and quickly drop enemies just by looking at them.
And new players don't have a choice who they play against, every one is in the same pool of players. Switch the game to be designed the way you want it to and the vast majority of new players to the game will give up within a week and soon the player base will be a small group of "elite" players that won't provide enough revenue to support the game to the degree they would like to. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1149
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Almost every game in the history of video games has picked one or the other, or, varied on the weapons (snipers kick, assaults disperse) for a very good reason as well, kick is random, dispersion is random, to have both is just making a game take less skill, snipers only have kick, HMG's only have dispersion, lasers don't have anything (lolololol), why does the assault rifle have BOTH?
also give me back my camera sight kthxbai. Opionion neglected due to be a imperfect member. Or shall i quote the zitros stating that the AR's are fine with the current kick? |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Because burst firing, that's why. This might be the best argument, but I'm still highly against kick, I have my own strategies to almost completely eliminate kick but still not everyone is as... observant as I in the ways I am and they might not realize this making me win just because I'm smarter instead of because I have more skill, I don't like winning if they're better than me. You just said the game shouldn't be designed around scrubbies... now you're saying it should?
Just because I'm smarter than someone does not mean I'm better than them. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Almost every game in the history of video games has picked one or the other, or, varied on the weapons (snipers kick, assaults disperse) for a very good reason as well, kick is random, dispersion is random, to have both is just making a game take less skill, snipers only have kick, HMG's only have dispersion, lasers don't have anything (lolololol), why does the assault rifle have BOTH?
also give me back my camera sight kthxbai. Opionion neglected due to be a imperfect member. Or shall i quote the zitros stating that the AR's are fine with the current kick?
I wouldn't mind the kick without the dispersion or the dispersion without the kick. |
Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
How about remove kick and increase dispersion? |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Delirium Inferno wrote:Many game designers will tell you for a competitive multiplayer game you need a certain degree of random so new players aren't destroyed by those who have played the game for a long time and instantly turned off. Not that a long time player shouldn't be better than a new player, but the new player has to feel like he at least has a chance so he doesn't quit. Randomness helps this. Also if you are saying the Assault Rifle suffers because of this then . . . . The Assault Rifle is the easiest weapon to use and get kills with in this game. The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun? I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win. Assault Rifle is much easier than Shotgun. There seems to be this common misconception among shooter fans that aiming = all the skill. Honestly, aiming is not that hard. Most the skill in shooters come from knowing where to be, how to best approach a situation, and appropriately reacting to enemy actions. With Assault Rifles you can easily keep a safe distance and quickly drop enemies just by looking at them. And new players don't have a choice who they play against, every one is in the same pool of players. Switch the game to be designed the way you want it to and the vast majority of new players to the game will give up within a week and soon the player base will be a small group of "elite" players that won't provide enough revenue to support the game to the degree they would like to.
put a new player in this game with an AR against pro's they'll get destroyed put them in the same match with shotguns and suddenly they're killing the elite players.
This game will never be as popular as CCP wanted it to be, they expected hundreds of thousands of actives, maybe millions. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kesi Raae Kaae wrote:How about remove kick and increase dispersion?
depends on how much of an increase, I prefer the reverse though. |
Kalante Schiffer
UnReaL.
189
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
There is something that has been bothering me for almost a month now. Why does it say that the duvolle has a accuracy of 57+ but when i use it it has more recoil than the GEK. it doesnt make any sense. fix the duvolle |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
459
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Because burst firing, that's why. This might be the best argument, but I'm still highly against kick, I have my own strategies to almost completely eliminate kick but still not everyone is as... observant as I in the ways I am and they might not realize this making me win just because I'm smarter instead of because I have more skill, I don't like winning if they're better than me. You just said the game shouldn't be designed around scrubbies... now you're saying it should? Just because I'm smarter than someone does not mean I'm better than them. Two guys throw grenades at each other, one of them bothered to cook the grenade. Clearly the one who cooked the grenade was smarter, but was he also more skilled? I would argue that he was. Being a "better" player than someone doesn't necessarily have to mean having the faster reaction. Someone who plays cleverly could potentially do just as well as someone who is really good at aiming. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
261
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Because burst firing, that's why. This might be the best argument, but I'm still highly against kick, I have my own strategies to almost completely eliminate kick but still not everyone is as... observant as I in the ways I am and they might not realize this making me win just because I'm smarter instead of because I have more skill, I don't like winning if they're better than me. You just said the game shouldn't be designed around scrubbies... now you're saying it should? Just because I'm smarter than someone does not mean I'm better than them. Two guys throw grenades at each other, one of them bothered to cook the grenade. Clearly the one who cooked the grenade was smarter, but was he also more skilled? I would argue that he was. Being a "better" player than someone doesn't necessarily have to mean having the faster reaction. Someone who plays cleverly could potentially do just as well as someone who is really good at aiming.
Aim should be the determining factor in any FPS. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
459
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Aim should be the determining factor in any FPS.
So a guy should be able to run guns blazing into the middle of Manus Peak and take out 16 guys just because he has better aim? That's funny, I've never seen an Imp do that. Do you know what we call guys who try that? NOOBS. Playing strategically, or "intelligently", is just as important as having good aim. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
362
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun?
I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win.
If you're so elite, then you shouldn't really have a problem with either kick or dispersion, now should you?
You cant skill around random dice rolls. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
459
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun?
I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win.
If you're so elite, then you shouldn't really have a problem with either kick or dispersion, now should you? You cant skill around random dice rolls. So the next time an Imp/Pink fluffy goes 20-0 in a match I'm supposed to just say "Oh he just got lucky", instead of "He's probably better than me"? If the game was really so luck based, then we wouldn't have the disparity between players that we do now. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
362
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Aim should be the determining factor in any FPS.
So a guy should be able to run guns blazing into the middle of Manus Peak and take out 16 guys just because he has better aim? That's funny, I've never seen an Imp do that. Do you know what we call guys who try that? NOOBS. Playing strategically, or "intelligently", is just as important as having good aim.
Playing "intelligently" doesnt mean running around will nilly, you could have perfect aim if you run into a zerg and they cant put you down because you outshot every last one of them then yea you should lose but anyone who loses in that situation is just bad period.
But if a person is playing smart and using cover and strafing and everything else. The person who comes out on top is the person who can aim the gun better and compensate for weapon kick/dispersion but bursting or riding the kicking by aiming at the torso allowing it to go to the head.
That's weapon skill(gun game) that should be the deciding factor in a FPS between any 1v1. You counter said skill with teamfire(zerg tactics). Skilled squad counters by maintaining tight formation and picking off tarfets in rapid succession. Zerg counters with nades and other stuff to "soften" up or eliminate.
Leet squad compensate by running away getting distance regrouping and forcing enemy to reengage, Zerg prevents by forcing leet squad into bottle neck and flanks and ganks.
In the end AIM is the predominant factor in the 1v1 because the players are getting a weapon that has reliable characteristics.(do you program in misfires and weapons jams sure but the percentage should be EXTREMELY RARE since hey they occur in RL too but then again in a game you should have that crap)
But the team tactics still have a chance to prevail if they coordinate correctly.
Thats how you balance a FPS to account for gun game and team tactics.
/c |
noob 45
Syndicate of Gods
14
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Delirium Inferno wrote:Many game designers will tell you for a competitive multiplayer game you need a certain degree of random so new players aren't destroyed by those who have played the game for a long time and instantly turned off. Not that a long time player shouldn't be better than a new player, but the new player has to feel like he at least has a chance so he doesn't quit. Randomness helps this. Also if you are saying the Assault Rifle suffers because of this then . . . . The Assault Rifle is the easiest weapon to use and get kills with in this game. The assault rifle has the most variation, not the easiest to get kills with, have you tried a shotgun? I don't care about the scrubbies I'm talking bout the elites here like a game should be designed around, from what I understand the game will be sorted by skill or SP somehow so it won't matter in the future. nubs shouldn't attempt to play against pro's and win. Assault Rifle is much easier than Shotgun. There seems to be this common misconception among shooter fans that aiming = all the skill. Honestly, aiming is not that hard. Most the skill in shooters come from knowing where to be, how to best approach a situation, and appropriately reacting to enemy actions. With Assault Rifles you can easily keep a safe distance and quickly drop enemies just by looking at them. And new players don't have a choice who they play against, every one is in the same pool of players. Switch the game to be designed the way you want it to and the vast majority of new players to the game will give up within a week and soon the player base will be a small group of "elite" players that won't provide enough revenue to support the game to the degree they would like to.
What this guy said x1000. I can jack up Protos with the standard shotgun, but it can take 3-6 direct hits even with 2 complex mods stacked on it. In order to do this though I need some way to get within nova-knife distance without dieing first. That is why if you see someone with a shotgun, you NEVER chase them around a corner.
You think the shotgun is easier than the AR? At a range of 10 meters my shotgun barely scratches even a militia assault suit. Did you know you run just as fast backwards as I run forwards at you? That means at 10m you can easily backpeddal and kill me with even a SMG or Scrambler while I run at you
Hell I have had heavy suits with 1khp get melted by an AR at 150m in a second.
You don't need to have good aim to be a good player. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
459
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 20:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote: and compensate for weapon kick/dispersion buy bursting or riding the kicking by aiming at the torso allowing it to go to the head.
Isn't that what I said? -_- |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2448
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 21:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote:Because games like Call of Duty and Battlefield are more spray and pray oriented.
You can more think of this game's mechanics more like Counter Strike, you get rewarded for not just holding down a button.
Also the HMG does have kick when it is firing for long enough.
And another reason could be racial. Counter-strike has a more real headshot bonus though, plus I can't even ******* see what I'm shooting at because of lolirons, I'm thinking of this game more of like a halo, because that's the closest thing I can compare it to. dead on accuracy please more strafe speed less/elimination of dispersion on weapons with kick.
just an fyi halo BR has spread |
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