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Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
93
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Posted - 2013.03.08 04:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently, you have two ways of playing Dust 514. PVP and Mercenary's Quarters. Exploration Sites would give squads something to do other than PVP. Unless, of course, someone else wants the site...
Light Deployment Ship The Light Deployment Ship is a capsuleer-craft that can send down a single squad of infantrymen to exploration sites. So long as the LDS stays above the site, mercenaries can respawn. In hostile space, you might want the infantrymen to come equipped with nanohives and nanite injectors so the mercenaries can continue the mission while the LDS is not present above the planet. The Light Deployment Ship also comes equipped with an installation launcher that allows it to launch installations and vehicles onto the planet's surface, either in a district (general warfare) or an exploration site. The LDS can only support up to four mercenaries, all in the same squad. The LDS must be online in the same system, or the mercenaries lose consciousness and the expedition is failed. if the LDS leaves the system or goes offline, it has a small amount of time to return to the system before this happens.
Exploration Sites (General) Exploration Sites are small sites that you can, well, explore. They come in five varieties: Ladar, Radar, Gravimetric, Magnetometric and DED Complex. Only two squads may occupy an Exploration Site at a time. The first to arrive is the defender, whilst the second to arrive is the aggressor. The aggressor cannot benefit from the Exploration Site until the defender is cleared out or forfeits. The defender can benefit from the Exploration Site, but at a decreased rate. All Explorations Sites can have some sort of AI defense, though only DED Complexes are guaranteed to have AI defenders. Mercenaries can call down a ferry from the LDS that they can evacuate on or simply load with ore, gas and salvage for retrieval.
Radar Sites Here, mercenaries can hack open containers to receive blueprints and invention supplies. These are the second most likely to be guarded. Unlike normal hacking, Radar Site hacking takes the form of a puzzle. Using codebreakers will make the puzzle easier and quicker to solve, but codebreakers are not required. All data extracted is transmitted automatically to the LDS without delay.
Ladar Sites Here, mercenaries can extract gas from underneath the crust of the planet, where rare gas deposits are richest. These are the third most likely to be guarded. Defending NPCs are often already extracting some of this gas. Gas leaks can be found all over Ladar Sites, and they can be harvested with a small piece of placeable equipment called the Gas Well Pump. After extracting the gas, remove the filled Gas Well Pump. If you die, the gas will be lost. After evacuating, all gas is retrieved by the LDS.
Gravimetric Sites Here, mercenaries can extract rare materials from small alluvial deposits scattered through the site. These are the least likely to be guarded. Rare ore deposits can be harvested with handheld mining lasers that take up an equipment slot. The ore will eventually fill up the mining laser. If you die, the ore will be lost. After evacuating, all ore is retrieved by the LDS.
Magnetometric Sites Here, mercenaries can salvage from vehicle wrecks, structural husks, and corpses as well as analyze ancient technology. These are the third least likely to be guarded. Previously mentioned vehicles and corpses can be harvested for salvage with a salvager. This works in the same way as a mining laser. Ancient pieces of technology can be analyzed with an analyzer, which takes up an equipment slot. Analysis is a puzzle similar to Radar Site hacking. This data is automatically transmitted to the LDS.
DED Complexes Here, mercenaries can shoot pirates, rogue drones, and so on. Concord will pay a hefty bounty for clearing it. Further more, DED Complexes can contain elements from other Exploration Sites, albeit in smaller quantities and more randomly. These pirates are not skilled, have inferior weapons and armor, and are suicideally overconfident. They attack en masse like stupid pirates would. Officers will sometimes appear, equipped with Better-than-Prototype gear and backed by a group of elite lackeys. They are cowardly and dangerous, but if you manage to kill them you can get some Officer loot for your trouble. |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
899
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Posted - 2013.03.08 04:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well thought out, something new to do other than Skirmish/Ambush grind, I say yes. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
100
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Posted - 2013.03.08 21:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:something new to do other than Skirmish/Ambush grind What's wrong with grinding? I love grinding. |
Rachoi
HavoK Core
27
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Posted - 2013.03.08 21:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
a new kind of mode would help with the monotony of what is going on now, and gives us some fun direction to go with EvE type mission fun and exploration |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
135
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Posted - 2013.03.08 23:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
While I like this idea compared to what we've got, I'd rather see an open world type thing. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
331
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Posted - 2013.03.09 03:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like it. Thanks for the post. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
101
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Posted - 2013.03.09 14:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Unfortunately, that is currently not logistically possible due to the fact that there are more planets on at one time than there are mercenaries. Multiply that by the number of districts and you end up with a lot of empty space, all taking up server power while mercenaries desperately look for some action.
In the future I would like to see an open-world, but I'm afraid it's just not happening now or anytime soon. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
103
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Unfortunately, that is currently not logistically possible due to the fact that there are more planets on at one time than there are mercenaries. Multiply that by the number of districts and you end up with a lot of empty space, all taking up server power while mercenaries desperately look for some action. In the future I would like to see an open-world, but I'm afraid it's just not happening now or anytime soon. For mental illustration, let me elaborate...
There are 7,200 temperate planets in all of New Eden.
Each has 10-20 districts.
72,000 to 144,000 districts in all of New Eden.
108,000 districts. Can you imagine how much empty space that is?
One day, I hope Dust 514 becomes open-world, but I'm afraid that such a thing may never happen. |
Eric Starstrike
UNIT 304
0
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Posted - 2013.03.10 02:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Then the game would be like planetside 2 |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
106
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 14:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eric Starstrike wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Then the game would be like planetside 2 And right now the game is like Call of Duty. I'm not seeing your point. |
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Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
141
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Posted - 2013.03.10 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Unfortunately, that is currently not logistically possible due to the fact that there are more planets on at one time than there are mercenaries. Multiply that by the number of districts and you end up with a lot of empty space, all taking up server power while mercenaries desperately look for some action. In the future I would like to see an open-world, but I'm afraid it's just not happening now or anytime soon. For mental illustration, let me elaborate... There are 7,200 temperate planets in all of New Eden. Each has 10-20 districts. 72,000 to 144,000 districts in all of New Eden. 108,000 districts. Can you imagine how much empty space that is? One day, I hope Dust 514 becomes open-world, but I'm afraid that such a thing may never happen. I didn't go into the technical details in that post, but the way I'd do open world is the same way EVE does: via instances. So there is an instance of the area outside of base/town/whatever, as well as near any planetary landmarks you may be able to travel to. When you scan down something, such as the mineral deposit in my example, an instance is generated upon arrival. Anyone who travels to that point before the instance despawns (such as by scanning either it down or us down, as in the example) will travel to the same instance and be able to interact with the players currently occupying it.
It creates an issue of coming up with a way to hand wave the fast travel system. In my example I just said we took some dropships and left it at that. Maybe we give aircraft some sort of mini-warp? Or hand-wave it by having people drop to that point from the war barge. But from a technical perspective it's very feasible. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
106
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 15:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Unfortunately, that is currently not logistically possible due to the fact that there are more planets on at one time than there are mercenaries. Multiply that by the number of districts and you end up with a lot of empty space, all taking up server power while mercenaries desperately look for some action. In the future I would like to see an open-world, but I'm afraid it's just not happening now or anytime soon. For mental illustration, let me elaborate... There are 7,200 temperate planets in all of New Eden. Each has 10-20 districts. 72,000 to 144,000 districts in all of New Eden. 108,000 districts. Can you imagine how much empty space that is? One day, I hope Dust 514 becomes open-world, but I'm afraid that such a thing may never happen. I didn't go into the technical details in that post, but the way I'd do open world is the same way EVE does: via instances. So there is an instance of the area outside of base/town/whatever, as well as near any planetary landmarks you may be able to travel to. When you scan down something, such as the mineral deposit in my example, an instance is generated upon arrival. Anyone who travels to that point before the instance despawns (such as by scanning either it down or us down, as in the example) will travel to the same instance and be able to interact with the players currently occupying it. It creates an issue of coming up with a way to hand wave the fast travel system. In my example I just said we took some dropships and left it at that. Maybe we give aircraft some sort of mini-warp? Or hand-wave it by having people drop to that point from the war barge. But from a technical perspective it's very feasible. Feasible, yes, perhaps. From that standpoint. Honestly, however, there needs to be at least one mercenary online for every district. EVE has ten capsuleeers for every one star system and those still manage to be surprisingly empty. Then again, there are thousands in Jita, and hundreds in other high-sec systems... |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
141
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 15:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Spend some time in nullsec or, hell, even some of the more desolate high-sec regions (Why do you even exist, Everyshore?). Plenty of empty space. And those aren't even the instances, those are systems. Near as I can tell systems just contain a series of orbital bodies and their coordinates. Those aren't terribly memory intensive.
The instances need only be generated when someone travels to them. So an instance is only using up processor time if there is a player in it. Thus empty districts have no negative (or at least negligible) impact on server performance. By no stretch do we have to have a player in every district. In fact, the game peforms better if people are more concentrated.
Except in the instance where everyone is so concentrated. That's the only real issue I can see with this, is evidently the game can only handle, even theoretically, very small match sizes. It's been mentioned that internal testing has gotten them 128 people into a match at a time. In EVE battles can consist of thousands of players. What happens when me and 200 of my buddies all try to show up in an instance with you and 200 of your buddies? That's certainly more than the instance can handle. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
107
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 17:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Spend some time in nullsec or, hell, even some of the more desolate high-sec regions (Why do you even exist, Everyshore?). Plenty of empty space. And those aren't even the instances, those are systems. Near as I can tell systems just contain a series of orbital bodies and their coordinates. Those aren't terribly memory intensive. Memory intensive, no. Still, it's seems silly to have more districts than mercenaries. |
Eric Starstrike
UNIT 304
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 18:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Eric Starstrike wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Then the game would be like planetside 2 And right now the game is like Call of Duty. I'm not seeing your point. Call of duty? no way, the game is way different from call of duty. I'd say it's closer to battlefield 3. but i never said being like planetside 2 was a bad thing. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
141
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 18:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Spend some time in nullsec or, hell, even some of the more desolate high-sec regions (Why do you even exist, Everyshore?). Plenty of empty space. And those aren't even the instances, those are systems. Near as I can tell systems just contain a series of orbital bodies and their coordinates. Those aren't terribly memory intensive. Memory intensive, no. Still, it's seems silly to have more districts than mercenaries. I disagree. Open, empty space means more room for exploration! I love exploration! |
BulletSnitcheZ
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 18:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is a fantastic idea! I don't know why everyone is complaining about "empty space". Empty space is good, especially for players who like to make their ISK from PVE rather than PVP.
Empty space in Null-Sec also allows new EVE corporations to start gaining their own territory, which could eventually turn into a huge war fought over the many lucrative resources found in Null-Sec space.
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Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 23:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
BulletSnitcheZ wrote:This is a fantastic idea! I don't know why everyone is complaining about "empty space". Empty space is good, especially for players who like to make their ISK from PVE rather than PVP.
Empty space in Null-Sec also allows new EVE corporations to start gaining their own territory, which could eventually turn into a huge war fought over the many lucrative resources found in Null-Sec space.
Tens of thousands of empty districts isn't really a good thing. |
Meeko Fent
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 01:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nice idea, but the Thing I see is things like multiple groups being in there at the same time, How many new teams can we make before the becomes problems? What will the max PC be? Great Idea, just some things that need to be smoothed out in PvE in general. |
BulletSnitcheZ
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 02:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote: Tens of thousands of empty districts isn't really a good thing.
They could fill the "empty space" with NPC enemies and mission stations. That's what they do in EVE online.
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Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 03:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
The "empty space" he seems to be objecting to is districts without players in them. What I don't get is the why. If there's no one in a district...so what? That's just more places I can go and do exploration stuff. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 08:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1
Can we mess with structures placed on planets by EVE pilots (via Planetary Interaction) too? Please... |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
110
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:The "empty space" he seems to be objecting to is districts without players in them. What I don't get is the why. If there's no one in a district...so what? That's just more places I can go and do exploration stuff. Tens of thousands of empty districts with no one to say "GTFO". EVE is different, the ratio is 10 capsuleers per system, not 10 districts per mercenary. There is no system in EVE available to the public that goes an entire day without a single capsuleer flying through. There might, however, be thousands of districts that go empty for days on end. |
Meeko Fent
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 04:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote: Tens of thousands of empty districts with no one to say "GTFO". EVE is different, the ratio is 10 capsuleers per system, not 10 districts per mercenary. There is no system in EVE available to the public that goes an entire day without a single capsuleer flying through. There might, however, be thousands of districts that go empty for days on end.
There Can be no Peace in New Eden? If we are constantly Butchering each other in these districts, how will the Mortals do their jobs in Manufacturing plants and the like? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
463
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 05:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Actually they're probably plenty of systems that get no traffic in eve |
Gorgoth24Reborn
Machetes at Midnight Ghosts of Deep Space
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 21:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think the idea that exploration in EVE Online could be paired with exploration in Dust 514 is probably the most original, balanced, and awesome way of integrating EVE Online and Dust 514 I've heard yet.
What is outlined in this post isn't exactly the way I'd envision it, but would still be an awesome idea. However, if I may add....
The Star Trek Experience I would suggest something like a Star Trek experience in these joint exploration sites. E.G. players in EVE Online find sites through the scanning mechanic but are unable to complete the sites themselves because they are on the planet. They contract a Dust 514 mercenary squad to do the site (like a Star Trek away team) and drop them onto the planet through a specialized EVE Online exploration ship/module (like the LDS described or a module with similair function) orbiting the site at a specific point. The mercenaries fight through a site populated with PvE targets (like the drones due to be added to Dust before final release) designed to be done WITH the help of an orbiting LDS for a reward given to both the EVE Online player that found the site and the Dust 514 mercenaries who did the site.
Optionally, the ship orbiting the Dust site could have EVE Online PvE targets spawn around the LDS so that both Dust and EVE players would have something to shoot at.
Optionally, warping to the site in EVE Online and dropping a Dust mercenary squad onto the site would deploy a beacon in EVE space visible to the entire system (like a FW beacon) making the site a hot spot for PvP in EVE and encouraging other EVE groups to destroy the fleet that found the site and drop their own Dust Mercenaries to try and take the rewards from the other team.
The major difference being that there would be no attackers/defenders unless two seperate EVE Online players found the site and each dropped Dust mercs, making it a strictly PVE content connected to EVE's exploration system.
Any way you look at it, +1 |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 21:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Actually they're probably plenty of systems that get no traffic in eve That is certainly not true. Every system in EVE has at least one capsuleer in it or go through it every day. Even systems that are completely empty for most of the day can have dozens pass through it at one time or another, perhaps even fighting or mining before quickly moving off. |
Prestor Moan
United Tactics
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 23:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
117
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 09:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote: Tens of thousands of empty districts with no one to say "GTFO". EVE is different, the ratio is 10 capsuleers per system, not 10 districts per mercenary. There is no system in EVE available to the public that goes an entire day without a single capsuleer flying through. There might, however, be thousands of districts that go empty for days on end.
There Can be no Peace in New Eden? If we are constantly Butchering each other in these districts, how will the Mortals do their jobs in Manufacturing plants and the like? I'm just saying that there are too many empty places for people to go and very little risk of them ever getting stopped in an open-world. The fact that you need a starship to bring you to the district might increase that risk, though. |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is pretty fantastic Ulysses!
I especially love the use of a special LD-Ship and the finite number of clones. This makes room for the possible specialization of Squad Commanders for specific missions, whereas a PvE Commander would have a distinct advantage of using the LDS as well as being able to increase Mission supplies/Reserve Clones/ Salvage on the margin.
I'll add you to my PvE Discussion if that's alright with you: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49714&find=unread
Feel free to add, criticize, or comment.
<3 Punk |
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