Um, I'm not sure I see the problem.

Every single level in this game will be a 100% safe zone.
If you're using free equipment. So... Doesn't that mean players are in 100% control over how much risk they want to put themselves and where?

CCP already addressed this issue not only by the flattening of gear/weapons, but also removing the camera's off of the assault rifle.

What does it matter if its free if you can barely hurt another player in more advanced gear without the assist which nets less WP than a real kill?

I am not crying about it, just an observation that my friends who play more mainstream FPS games won't care for Dust due to its learning curve and gear difference.

I see threads like this all the time, why shoulo'nt a experienced player be better in the game the a new player thats like comparing a pro basketball player to an average adult. If a new player wants to get better he will have to play to get better. you don't gain any skill from playing enemies worse then you or even the same level

I see threads like this all the time, why shoulo'nt a experienced player be better in the game the a new player thats like comparing a pro basketball player to an average adult. If a new player wants to get better he will have to play to get better. you don't gain any skill from playing enemies worse then you or even the same level

Using your comparison, do they let middle school teams play in the NBA? Of course not.

So why are new players stuck in matches against stacked teams with say two squads from top ten corps?

The idea of tiered matches by SP makes the most sense. Put a high cap of say 4+ million SP, and say that no one below 1.5 million SP faces those with more than 4 mill. Doesn't negate playing against better, or more experienced players, but it does give the brand new players a chance to get their feet wet without getting roflstomped all the time.

I'm just saying i believe its fine the way it is. I'm a good player better then average in my opinion and i can still get wrecked sometimes.
Your idea is a good one but in all honesty they don't need to change it at all new players will deal with the troubles of facing tougher enemies

I'm just saying i believe its fine the way it is. I'm a good player better then average in my opinion and i can still get wrecked sometimes.
Your idea is a good one but in all honesty they don't need to change it at all new players will deal with the troubles of facing tougher enemies

I'm just saying i believe its fine the way it is. I'm a good player better then average in my opinion and i can still get wrecked sometimes.
Your idea is a good one but in all honesty they don't need to change it at all new players will deal with the troubles of facing tougher enemies

My first kill in this game was when I shot a proto guy with my forge gun XD

That being said, I think the thing most frustrating about playing is just a result of small map sizes.

Currently if you want to survive there's a few ways to do it.
Close range guns dominate in these small maps. When the game has larger maps, there will be more room for specialization and picking what you like to do will be simpler since all things will be more balanced. You won't feel that by wanting to be a sniper, there's too little room and too many people spawning on top of you.

Whatever that thing is where people 1 shot me from 10 feet away in a second is lame. But I don't mind it because
A: maps will get larger
B: If i really just wanted to not get owned I'd play more tactically.

Whatever that thing is where people 1 shot me from 10 feet away in a second is lame. But I don't mind it because
A: maps will get larger
B: If i really just wanted to not get owned I'd play more tactically.

This is not relevant to the topic at hand. Map size has almost nothing to do with being stuck in starter fits with no skills and having to face players with 4 million or more SP.

The issue is about how new players get treated under the current system and if there might be a better system to allow new players to experience the game without getting stepped on and discouraged.

EDIT: Proto Suits are black. Shiny for the ISK ones, not so shiny for the Aurum protos.

A. Maps will indeed get larger but then those who have maxed out SP for snipers, scout armor and cloak will just simply roll over those newer people who don't know what to look for. The development team will need to very carefully balance LoS. Got to make it fair to both sides otherwise it will just be dueling snipers for 3+km away because that would then be the only viable way to survive if it is to open. If it is to cluttered then why be a sniper at all? Which then shotguns/heavies camping around tight corners would come to dominate. No one would win and all the time time they spent trying to make each niche fun and viable will be wasted. So even with expanded map sizes there should be a tiered combat system.

B. So how is spawning beside an enemy and getting killed instantly have anything to do with or without tactics? That is another big thing I believe needs to be worked on is the ease in which a team can get spawned trapped. I die once near the end of the game but because of spawn traps I suddenly have 5+ deaths at the end of a match?

I understand that this game is still in beta but it is clear they have a ways to go. But EVE-Online is like one of my favorite games ever so I have faith CCP will do well by it.

I beg to differ. You point to the problem being new players that might leave before giving the game a chance.
One aspect of that, and gear difference, is the frequency of being 1hko. 1hKO's are saturated in these compact maps full of people who all specd those millions of SP into close range guns or heavy machine guns and broken/bugged damage mods.

Fix mods, spread out the map and people won't feel so weak and helpless.

I am learning to pilot in this game it gets shot down so very quickly (if I don't wreck it first lol!). So again this is where that balancing issue between open maps and closed maps. Guns and their effective counters.

Perhaps all it will take is opening of the maps. But perhaps it won't. Either way the tiered system will allow for more competitive play anyway with all the high end players in low-sec with the best gear for the most profitable wars. Just like EVE-Online and I have no problem with that. But don't throw new people into that and expect them to have fun.

Its like going into a fleet battle with a new Tristian with a starter fit and your facing down a Battlecruiser. It may be fun and hilarious for the BC pilot but that person who just spent all their starting mission ISK on that frigate and fitting is pretty pissed off.

Hate to derail but how can you identify people with proto gear?

I mean yeah but the worst that can happen here is they get upset at kdr. If they don't feel good enough to hold onto gear don't buy it

isnt that the first rule of eve. Don't play with things you can't afford to lose?

It is the first rule of EVE, but EVE has balances. CONCORD for one. Sure they can make a suicide run on a few starter pilots before turrets and CONCORD catches up to them and blasts them out of the sky. But for the most part those starting players are safe in High Sec to learn the game. And at least CAS and SWA are good places for new players to learn the mechanics of EVE before making truly terrible choices that could take days/weeks to correct.

Where is that support to a new person to Dust? When you make a Gallente you don't get a Corp like CAS to help you out. You get a chat that tells you to stop crying or just "LFS" all the time.

So the only way to do well is to get good gear to stand a chance against experienced players. But to use that gear risks your ISK which losing makes it harder to replace.. seems kind of a no win situation?

I earn enough to keep myself well fitted and a steady supply of dropships to boot, but I know what to expect. New players do not.

how about we give something higher skilled player to go off and do?

eff the carebears.

/thread

When you aim at someone it'll show the level of their suit: MLT, STD, ADV, PRO.

I made my first mining character relatively close to the last time I took a break. Great for making ISK to transfer to my main. But the heart of EVE is fighting and dying in low to null sec space. Big battles in Dust are what 100 players? Major fleet actions in EVE comprise hundreds of ships spread across several systems. It is pretty cool watching a titan die under the guns of a massed fleet. And for every peaceful miner you have a small fleet watching over those operations.

Both Capsuleers and the troopers of Dust are immortal based off of technology given to them by the Jovian Empire. They can die and die and die. One demi-god among many other demi-gods. Dust is part of the EVE-Universe and in time we will have many worlds to fight and die on. But to keep it fun for everyone there needs to be checks and balances built in to keep new players coming to the game.

It would be like if EVE started everyone in null-sec.

Could have just pointed out that it's black

Anyway, I don't think we should separate based on gear/Sp, just offer a separate ambush mode with better rewards. Most pros will want to hang out there, except for a few griefers. The rewards for doing badly should be worse than the ones you can earn in regular ambush though.

I think it would be a good idea to limit new players from the higher SP players. I have been playing for about a month and I only started to have a chance of a decent game over the last couple/three weeks. Certainly in that first week I was absolutely slaughtered and my k/d dropped to 0.29. At best I am very average at FPS but I do enjoy the game.

Well how do you solve this without essentially segregating players by SP/gear?
Which could still be exploited by kind of focused twinking.
And what would be the point of getting better gear/skills if you only ever fought people with the same amount.

That's not how it work's in Eve. The point is anyone can be useful to some degree, they just need to know a few basics. I don't want to be forced into fighting only noobs if I'm a noob, or only pros if I'm a pro, or only geared if I'm geared or naked if i'm naked.

I think it should all mix together and offer more variety and fun for everyone. But again, I never thought this game was hard to start.

And @ the person who said I should make an Alt to see what it's like getting stomped everyday. My main has no SP invested in weapons or gear and runs naked so I feel that every game. Except I don't because it isn't so bad.

Well how do you solve this without essentially segregating players by SP/gear?
Which could still be exploited by kind of focused twinking.
And what would be the point of getting better gear/skills if you only ever fought people with the same amount.

That's not how it work's in Eve. The point is anyone can be useful to some degree, they just need to know a few basics. I don't want to be forced into fighting only noobs if I'm a noob, or only pros if I'm a pro, or only geared if I'm geared or naked if i'm naked.

I think it should all mix together and offer more variety and fun for everyone. But again, I never thought this game was hard to start.

And @ the person who said I should make an Alt to see what it's like getting stomped everyday. My main has no SP invested in weapons or gear and runs naked so I feel that every game. Except I don't because it isn't so bad.

No SP in weapons or gear? I call BS. If you run vehicles, you obviously would have specced field mechanics to 5, Circuitry to 5, Powergrid upgrades to 5, and depending on the vehicle type you wanted to run, you most likely would have specced shield control as well. All of which have a not insignificant effect on your ability to make a starter fit more competitive than a "true" starter fit.

As to the rest, please recall that my suggestion was only to make a separate area for only low skill players. That doesn't stop a new player(or a re roll) from jumping straight to the big leagues, but it keeps the big fish from doling out the hurt to the noobs.

I don't advocate tiered matchmaking by SP, but I do think that leaving an section for just people with under 1 million SP to play is not the worst thing in the world. Would they still have a big jump in difficulty when they moved up, of course, but that is not a bad thing. All it means is that they would be slightly more prepared to face the real playerbase.

We seriously need tiered levels for battles.

We seriously need tiered levels for battles.

I have played EVE-Online for a very long time and I understand that EVE had a very steep learning curve but it had safe areas were the more experienced players could not access without great risk to themselves.

I have played EVE-Online for a very long time and I understand that EVE had a very steep learning curve but it had safe areas were the more experienced players could not access without great risk to themselves. The setting itself is very awesome. So when I started playing Dust not to long ago I've come to a realization that this game is not balanced between new and old players. You click find a match that first time you can be going against people who've played since the beginning with millions of SP under their belts and all the high meta-level gear to go with it.

So here you are with starting SP and militia gear, maybe even a few friends to set out into the expanse universe that is EVE. But then you begin to realize that you stand no chance against people who are in higher end gear with weapons that cut through your militia armor like a hot knife through butter and that your starting weapons barely dent their shields or armor.

To say that a knowledge of maps and tactics can offset that remember that people are coming into this brand new and have no such knowledge about how EVE/Dust is with character progression and where to put skills for the most return. When I started EVE it took 3 tries to get the Race/Faction/Attribute point spread right so my character could actually do stuff, and then trained the learning skills to be able to learn things in a reasonable time frame, but again I had friendly zones were experienced players could not easily reach.

My hope would be that CCP addresses the parity disparity between people and squads before mashing them all together. Such a brutal first few times combine with a steep learning curve will drive people away from this game. The only reason I still play is I understand how the game is set-up and what it takes to become good at it.

I think youre a bit confused. There is nothing to keep a 10 year old player out of highsec.

generally 10 year old players are playing eve
it is too complex
lol

T Or some dbag tanker dougz or dougan or some such, every night around 2am I used to get in a match opposite him in his tank, one night I spent the entire match in a logi suit with 3 nano hives and a lvl 1 swarmer nonstop shooting him every 5ish seconds for a continuous few minutes. Apparently he ***** gold because non stop hitting him didn't take more then 10-20% shield of that PoS tank. So I deleted any AV fit I had, I don't think i've seen him anymore, but maybe because I ignore all vehicles now. Been better for my k/d)