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Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
75
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Posted - 2013.03.04 22:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Lore Logic: Militia and Standard sniper rifles are supposed to be crude. Their materials are heavier, clunkier, their operation and balances are flawed. A headshot at 500m should be pure luck with a crumby gun. Meanwhile, the prototype sniper rifles would be made from lighter, stronger materials. They are more elegant and sophisticated in their operation, and not burdensome on the user. Sniping from anywhere on the map, straight across the map should not be an issue for a gun of this quality.
That's horrible logic. We have goddamn supersuits and you are saying that 1. We can't steady a militia/standard sniper rifle with supersuit muscle, 2. Standard sniper rifles are bulky (which isn't true, militia is bulky compared to the others but standard is not) 3. Standard sniper rifles are flawed (which they aren't, advanced and prototype are simply better. Standard is still great), 4. Militia sniper rifles are flawed (compared to today, none of these weapons are actually flawed, some are just better than others.) |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
43
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Posted - 2013.03.04 23:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Militia snipers should get lowered to 3 shot body shot kills. They should also have a little sway and less zoom on their scope, but still have the same range. Then make everything better as you get towards prototype.
The reason I say don't even mess with range is because none of the maps are big enough to really exceed it anyways. Unless they want to expand the boundaries to include more of the outer mountains, which I think they should. Real snipers are not nearly as close as most these maps are making them be. I like the dynamic of Manus Peak a lot more where all the snipers are in the mountains, where it makes sense for them to be. If you start getting shot or notice their trail you shouldn't be able to start shooting back with an assault rifle, you should need to spot them and let a tank, dropship, or friendly sniper take care of it. Plus it adds a bit of risk since the further back the sniper gets the harder it is to see the targets and the further away you are from all the structures so when you run out of ammo and whatnot you'd likely need a pick-up from a dropship or something along those lines. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2013.03.04 23:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Hagintora wrote:Sniper Rifles don't rely on total accuracy, because no weapon should ever have that *jaw drops* Did... did you really just say that? Dear lord, what is this world coming to?
Fixed that for you, and yes, yes I did. This is a game, and as such no weapon in the game should have 100% accuracy with that much killing power. Espescially at MLT Level. IRL Sniper Rifles are not 100% accurate, either. The shooter has to compensate for wind resistance/direction, humidity, temperature, the difference in elevation between the shooter and the target and the rotation of the earth. The rifle will only get you so far and then it's up to the skill of the man operating it.
But this is a game, no nobody wants to, or should be forced to, deal with all of that crap. So we can add a little lore to the description of the Sniper Rifle that says that the rifle has an onboard computer that compensates for all these things for you. The MLT Rifles could then have sway (according to lore) becuase the hardware/software of the system isn't fast enough to fully compensate for sudden changes in any of the above mentioned values. Where, again, the rifle will only get you so far, and then you have to rely on your own skill.
Ulysses Knapse wrote:That's horrible logic. We have goddamn supersuits and you are saying that 1. We can't steady a militia/standard sniper rifle with supersuit muscle, 2. Standard sniper rifles are bulky (which isn't true, militia is bulky compared to the others but standard is not) 3. Standard sniper rifles are flawed (which they aren't, advanced and prototype are simply better. Standard is still great), 4. Militia sniper rifles are flawed (compared to today, none of these weapons are actually flawed, some are just better than others.)
You do bring up a good point here. Standard should be...well...the standard. MLT can and should be worse than their standard (and higher) counter parts.But STD should be the baseline that everything operates on. ADV would still be where most people would want to be, because it'd be better than STD but not wouldn't cost you your first born like PRO. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
76
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Posted - 2013.03.05 00:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:Militia snipers should get lowered to 3 shot body shot kills.
Which would make Militia Sniper Rifles one of the scarce weapons that require their entire clip to be emptied to kill by body shot, and 2/3s of the clip to be killed by headshot. Not fun, not fun at all. |
TheEnd762
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.03.05 00:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Do people actually use MLT sniper rifles? I used one ONCE when I first started playing, and haven't touched one since because they are utter pieces of crap. They're weak, slow, and only have 3 round clips. I just played Medic until I had enough SP and ISK to buy the STD sniper rifle. Which took all of 10 minutes. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2013.03.05 00:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Do people actually use MLT sniper rifles? I used one ONCE when I first started playing, and haven't touched one since because they are utter pieces of crap. They're weak, slow, and only have 3 round clips. I just played Medic until I had enough SP and ISK to buy the STD sniper rifle. Which took all of 10 minutes.
Watch the kill record (or whatever it's called), you'll see Militia Sniper Rifle pop up quite a bit. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
80
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Posted - 2013.03.05 02:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:TheEnd762 wrote:Do people actually use MLT sniper rifles? I used one ONCE when I first started playing, and haven't touched one since because they are utter pieces of crap. They're weak, slow, and only have 3 round clips. I just played Medic until I had enough SP and ISK to buy the STD sniper rifle. Which took all of 10 minutes. Watch the kill record (or whatever it's called), you'll see Militia Sniper Rifle pop up quite a bit.
Indeed. Just now I had a 11/3 with only Militia Sniper Rifle and Scrambler Pistol. Skill beats Science, always, but they still work best together. |
Rachoi
HavoK Core
21
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Posted - 2013.03.05 02:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
meaaning they should really give MLT snipers a little less to go with....
as for anything else MLT to prove a point, MLT forge guns should probably lose about 200 direct damage, bringing it to only 1000 direct damage.
militia shotgun should lose some power too.
MLT SMGs should lose a couple points to power. [just making a point here]
by basic logic MLT should be the bottom of the barrel, and should be common, but not used to death like they are. STD should.. well.. be the standard thing you see shooting people. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2013.03.05 03:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rachoi wrote:meaaning they should really give MLT snipers a little less to go with....
as for anything else MLT to prove a point, MLT forge guns should probably lose about 200 direct damage, bringing it to only 1000 direct damage.
militia shotgun should lose some power too.
MLT SMGs should lose a couple points to power. [just making a point here]
by basic logic MLT should be the bottom of the barrel, and should be common, but not used to death like they are. STD should.. well.. be the standard thing you see shooting people.
All MLT items should be scraping the bottom of the barrel. They're cheap for a reason, and in more ways than one. By having a clear progression it encourages people to skill into the things they want to improve on, while keeping the ability to still be able to use a wide variety of items at the cost of them being less effective. I looked up the errata on the Sniper Rifle:
Militia Sniper Rifle:
Range: 598 Meters
Effective Range: 1-598 Meters
Standard Sniper Rifle:
Same as Militia Sniper Rifle, but with lower CPU/PG costs. There is something wrong with that. |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
20
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Posted - 2013.03.05 03:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:-1 Sniper Rifles are weak enough as is. If anything, they need a reduced reload time, and a rate of fire buff. And a reticule on screen even when not looking through the scope!
Snipers seem to have it easy enough as it is. This game seems to be a sniper fest already. |
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Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
20
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Posted - 2013.03.05 03:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
So people want to give newbs even less of a chance to compete by nerfing their already weak militia equipment? I disagree to nerfing newbs. Casual players should be able to compete with the hardcore grinders or they have no reason to play. They will play another game, lessening Dust 514's chance for success. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2013.03.05 03:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Chinduko wrote:So people want to give newbs even less of a chance to compete by nerfing their already weak militia equipment? I disagree to nerfing newbs. Casual players should be able to compete with the hardcore grinders or they have no reason to play. They will play another game, lessening Dust 514's chance for success.
Actually, most of what we're talking about is already in place when it comes to Militia equipment. What we're discussing, specifically, here is having that same standard apply to Militia Sniper Rifles. Nobody wants to nerf the newbs, and they really won't be affected by this overall. The ones that want to specialize as snipers won't notice, because they will have already put points into the those skills at character creation. Those who wnat to specialize as snipers later their chartacters career, can still use the MLT SR to get a feel for how they work and what the best tactics are (because those won't change).
What it will do is give a reason to actually spend SP into the Skills required for SR's, having a skill that reduces scope sway is great, until you realize that all you need to do is crouch. Why spend points after that? This idea gives people a reason to want to skill into sniper rifles. |
M3DIC 2U
RED COLONIAL MARINES
Covert Intervention
20
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Posted - 2013.03.05 17:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
I can see a range difference, but not accuracy. If anything change the scope fidelity of the lower grades. I know the clip size is a huge limiting factor. 3 shots and a slow reload mean less kills for militia.
Currently I can OSK a MLT and some STD suits with a headshot, which is how it should be. Heavies are 2-4 shots and PRO suits just become an I'll weaken you, someone else can take you out. |
Felix Thunide
Gespenster Kompanie
Villore Accords
1
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Posted - 2013.04.20 18:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
I hate snipers. I'm not patient enough to do it myself and my only defense against them is to grab a militia rifle and shoot back. Making them even more OP would be supremely irritating. If we are gunna follow this line then I would like my multi-million ISK tank to last more than a few grenades and a forge gun. |
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