DUST Search - so how much isk does something need to cost to be balanced?

Paran Tadec wrote:

calisk galern wrote:

GeneralButtNaked wrote:

calisk galern wrote:

to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor?

Because they can be destroyed fairly easily by a skilled AV crew. Or an OB, or a squad of muppets with AV grenades. Or a turret. Or a proximity mine.

Lots of options for taking out tanks. Just like there are lots of options for taking out heavies.

You still haven't backed up your ridiculous claim that the heavy is broken.

that's cause I don't think they are, I was simply trying to make a point about using isk as a balancing factor for money.

I think heavies are newb cannons that rack up dozens of easy kills per match until players spend 3-4 mil sp in ARs then their party ends.

if you've invested millions of sp into hmg's, you wasted your time if you plan to do anything more the pubs long term.

Heavies do take skill to use, stop rushing them from the front LOL. In all honesty though, the ADV and PRO heavies need buff to their suits, as GEK's and duvolles rip them apart, espec with broken damage mods.

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
calisk galern KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:27:00 - [1] - Quote pretty simple question. heavies are broadly considered broken, but tanks are considered fine because they cost alot. tanks can easily hit 25-30 kills a match with 0-1 death and that's fine because they cost alot. so how much do heavy builds need to cost to be balanced.
GeneralButtNaked Burnwall Industries 59	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:38:00 - [2] - Quote How are heavies broken? High HP in exchange for horrible mobility and no equipment. The only people who consider heavies broken are people who have never played one, or cannot learn how to fight them.
Big Popa Smurff Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 104	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:42:00 - [3] - Quote heavys cant jump, slow as hell, slow to reload ( 8 seconds), no equipment, have to spend nearly as twice as many skill points, guns and suits cost more, skill books cost more. and the proto heavy isnt worth even skilling into. << that is wat is broken.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 298	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:43:00 - [4] - Quote I have to laugh at how many people say oh but someone in a tank gets 35-1 in a game. and they are unbalanced. Sorry butt if all tankers are doing that well why are they not owning the leaderboards? Few of the good tankers are up on the top but in reallity snipers and assault players by far control the K/D board. Why is that is because a average tanker uses a tank for 1-2 matches then spends 6 dieing alot because he lost his tank until he earns the isk for his next. You usually are running millitant gear on the ground because properly skilled tanks can eat up 7m+ SP by the end.
Musta Tornius BetaMax. 265	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:56:00 - [5] - Quote You can't balance with isk.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 76	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:04:00 - [6] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: You can't balance with isk. Titans.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:09:00 - [7] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Musta Tornius wrote: You can't balance with isk. Titans. Perfect example why you don't balance with isk, much easier to balance per meta-level or minerals in power out.
XANDER KAG Crimson Wings Brigade 15	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:10:00 - [8] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Musta Tornius wrote: You can't balance with isk. Titans. you have a point
Citrutex The High and Mighty 64	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:13:00 - [9] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Titans. Do you even play eve? Titans are not cost prohibitive.
Delirium Inferno Chernova Industries 35	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:13:00 - [10] - Quote If heavies were so broken than why isn't everyone a heavy? Because hey have terrible weaknesses. Only people who complain about heavies are the ones who are still a bit heated after coming head-on with one in their most expensive suit. Musta Tornius wrote: You can't balance with isk. For public matches I agree, but for corporation matches where ownership of a district is on the line I disagree.

Panoscape BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 107	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:14:00 - [11] - Quote Try playing a heavy in a corp battle against an AR proto assault suit with the broke complex damage mods and you'll know first hand that the heavy is not broken. In pub matches I easily go 30/2 with my heavy because many newberries are clueless on how to go up against me. But, in games that matter against experienced corp players, there is no advantage to a heavy, in fact it's a deathtrap.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 87	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:16:00 - [12] - Quote Citrutex wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Titans. Do you even play eve? Titans are not cost prohibitive. ... Sorry, sarcasm does not make it's way across the internet very well. I have indeed played EVE for many years. Since 2003 actually. I am well aware ISK is not a good way to balance things. Titans are just the best example of trying to do that and things going horribly wrong.

Citrutex The High and Mighty 64	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:21:00 - [13] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: things going horribly wrong. +10,000, Glad you folks do understand this, best response i've seen on the subject of supers Let's make sure high end tanks dont end up the same way, yeah?
calisk galern KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:34:00 - [14] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: You can't balance with isk. i'm glad we agree
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 643	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:39:00 - [15] - Quote Heavies are considered broken? Hold the press guys! This is news! Let's make another 5-6 threads today discussing ways to nerf an already gimped class! /s But seriously though CCP, 249k for proto heavy VK1? That's a little ridiculous considering it has no extra HP than a Type 2. If cost is not a balancing tool, then lower the cost of the heavy proto suits. They're not even that great! I get 1 extra high slot compared to B series for another 200k ISK...how does that even begin to make sense.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 96	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:46:00 - [16] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Citrutex wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Titans. Do you even play eve? Titans are not cost prohibitive. ... Sorry, sarcasm does not make it's way across the internet very well. I have indeed played EVE for many years. Since 2003 actually. I am well aware ISK is not a good way to balance things. Titans are just the best example of trying to do that and things going horribly wrong. Would've worked a lot better with a picture of the History Channel "Aliens" guy.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 111	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:52:00 - [17] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Citrutex wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Titans. Do you even play eve? Titans are not cost prohibitive. ... Sorry, sarcasm does not make it's way across the internet very well. I have indeed played EVE for many years. Since 2003 actually. I am well aware ISK is not a good way to balance things. Titans are just the best example of trying to do that and things going horribly wrong. Would've worked a lot better with a picture of the History Channel "Aliens" guy. hahaha yes it would have. Shall keep this in mind for next time.

Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 904	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:55:00 - [18] - Quote Balancing by ISK is stupid, because once the market is turned on, prices will be set by players.
calisk galern KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.02.26 18:09:00 - [19] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Balancing by ISK is stupid, because once the market is turned on, prices will be set by players. to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor?
GeneralButtNaked Burnwall Industries 63	Posted - 2013.02.26 18:27:00 - [20] - Quote calisk galern wrote: to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor? Because they can be destroyed fairly easily by a skilled AV crew. Or an OB, or a squad of muppets with AV grenades. Or a turret. Or a proximity mine. Lots of options for taking out tanks. Just like there are lots of options for taking out heavies. You still haven't backed up your ridiculous claim that the heavy is broken.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 912	Posted - 2013.02.26 18:30:00 - [21] - Quote calisk galern wrote: pretty simple question. heavies are broadly considered broken, but tanks are considered fine because they cost alot. tanks can easily hit 25-30 kills a match with 0-1 death and that's fine because they cost alot. so how much do heavy builds need to cost to be balanced. Using ISK as a major way to balance in an FPS that's going to eventually be tied to Eve money is a bad idea.
calisk galern KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.02.26 18:52:00 - [22] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: calisk galern wrote: to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor? Because they can be destroyed fairly easily by a skilled AV crew. Or an OB, or a squad of muppets with AV grenades. Or a turret. Or a proximity mine. Lots of options for taking out tanks. Just like there are lots of options for taking out heavies. You still haven't backed up your ridiculous claim that the heavy is broken. that's cause I don't think they are, I was simply trying to make a point about using isk as a balancing factor for money. I think heavies are newb cannons that rack up dozens of easy kills per match until players spend 3-4 mil sp in ARs then their party ends. if you've invested millions of sp into hmg's, you wasted your time if you plan to do anything more the pubs long term.
WR3CK HAVOC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 11	Posted - 2013.02.26 18:58:00 - [23] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: calisk galern wrote: pretty simple question. heavies are broadly considered broken, but tanks are considered fine because they cost alot. tanks can easily hit 25-30 kills a match with 0-1 death and that's fine because they cost alot. so how much do heavy builds need to cost to be balanced. Using ISK as a major way to balance in an FPS that's going to eventually be tied to Eve money is a bad idea. I think this forum must be currently broken because im agreeing with an imperfect.
new hulk ZionTCD Legacy Rising 49	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:09:00 - [24] - Quote Listen, the heavy has hit it's peak i can do as much with a type one as i can a proto vk0.1 i run armour heavy and i need a extra low slot not high. I mean al the extra high slot does is give me another dmg mod big whoop a assault has 4 and i have three do the math ignorant assault man your doing more dps in proto and advanced. So sir before you pop off at the mouth about something you think you know about because you butted in and over heard someone talking about using a heavy don't mean you are the foremost expert on the subject.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 904	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:12:00 - [25] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Balancing by ISK is stupid, because once the market is turned on, prices will be set by players. to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor? Tanks are balanced because I can easily kill one solo with a forge, unless they play it really well.
Mdnoel1 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:13:00 - [26] - Quote I have to agree that heavies balance themselves out with advantages vs disadvantages. I do agree on the top lvl suit though, really?, that's an awful lot for not any noticeable gain. just my 0.02
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 904	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:15:00 - [27] - Quote calisk galern wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: calisk galern wrote: to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor? Because they can be destroyed fairly easily by a skilled AV crew. Or an OB, or a squad of muppets with AV grenades. Or a turret. Or a proximity mine. Lots of options for taking out tanks. Just like there are lots of options for taking out heavies. You still haven't backed up your ridiculous claim that the heavy is broken. that's cause I don't think they are, I was simply trying to make a point about using isk as a balancing factor for money. I think heavies are newb cannons that rack up dozens of easy kills per match until players spend 3-4 mil sp in ARs then their party ends. if you've invested millions of sp into hmg's, you wasted your time if you plan to do anything more the pubs long term. Heavies do take skill to use, stop rushing them from the front LOL. In all honesty though, the ADV and PRO heavies need buff to their suits, as GEK's and duvolles rip them apart, espec with broken damage mods.
Mdnoel1 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:18:00 - [28] - Quote new hulk wrote: i run armour heavy and i need a extra low slot not high 100% This...
bcs1a Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:22:00 - [29] - Quote Mdnoel1 wrote: new hulk wrote: i run armour heavy and i need a extra low slot not high 100% This... yes please
new hulk ZionTCD Legacy Rising 50	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:23:00 - [30] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: calisk galern wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: calisk galern wrote: to play the advocate, then why are tanks balanced if the cost isn't the balancing factor? Because they can be destroyed fairly easily by a skilled AV crew. Or an OB, or a squad of muppets with AV grenades. Or a turret. Or a proximity mine. Lots of options for taking out tanks. Just like there are lots of options for taking out heavies. You still haven't backed up your ridiculous claim that the heavy is broken. that's cause I don't think they are, I was simply trying to make a point about using isk as a balancing factor for money. I think heavies are newb cannons that rack up dozens of easy kills per match until players spend 3-4 mil sp in ARs then their party ends. if you've invested millions of sp into hmg's, you wasted your time if you plan to do anything more the pubs long term. Heavies do take skill to use, stop rushing them from the front LOL. In all honesty though, the ADV and PRO heavies need buff to their suits, as GEK's and duvolles rip them apart, espec with broken damage mods. No one wants to hear all that, all they do is do there math thing and say we fire more bullets and we are more accurate i call bs in that anyone who has shot a real weapon less the number the more accurate at one hundred yard or meters.

Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:50:00 - [31] - Quote To the OP: Heavies already cost more than other suits, reference Proto Heavy (248,000 isk) -vs- assault or any of the others. And we still don't get an equipment slot, and have an 8 second reload. ;\ Just because you get owned by them doesn't mean they aren't balanced.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 167	Posted - 2013.02.26 20:04:00 - [32] - Quote Citrutex wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Titans. Do you even play eve? Titans are not cost prohibitive. If you buy a Titan with PLEX, one is worth twice what I paid for my first car.
Citrutex The High and Mighty 64	Posted - 2013.02.26 21:35:00 - [33] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: If you buy a Titan with PLEX, one is worth twice what I paid for my first car. If you finance a titan with PLEX, you're going to lose it. Regardless, isk is often the least prohibitive item on the agenda when acquiring a super, it sounds like CCP has taken these lessons to heart. Asymmetrical warfare should always be an option.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]