Ahh.. well I'm not quite sure that there should be a sliding scale for all weapons, but that aside I don't think you can accurately determine whether the Thales is OP unless you're testing it on vk.1 suits, for the sake of comparing oranges and oranges. 2-3 shots on a vk.1 assault would render it balanced... if other officer weapons are not behaving in a similar efficiency to their level as in previous levels maybe its time to consider a buff for the other officer weapons.

In my experience with the thales, it 1 shots basically all standard suits with the exception of the heavy which is a 2 shot, and depending on the fit of an advanced suit will generally 2 shot with an occasional 1 shot. I've not tried it extensively against the proto suits as not many people wear them frequently but that is the standard they should be judged to.

Django Quik said it nicely in the post just above.

You don't even need to "test" it as you can easily see it just from numbers. No matter how you put it the Thale's will at maximum be 2-shotting ANY non-heavy regardless of fitting and actually also be 2-shotting most heavies as it is right now.

You can actually 2-shot any non-heavy without using 2-3 damage mods as well. 1 is plenty for that job. Using more than 1 is just to 1-shot more people which is lame by itself, and then of course also to make sure you can 2-shot heavies.

If you call 2-shotting a vk.1 assault suit with health mods in all the slots balanced I don't know what to say. For information I can say that with a full health mod fit plus level 5 in the skills that give you 25% more shields and armor, a vk.1 assault will have just above 1k HP. And he gets 2-shotted...

For that exact reason the Thale's needs to be brought down, and not a buff to all the other Officer weapons.

That would in my opinion be fairly balanced. It would in that case be able to 1-shot a lot of low-end suits, 2-shot many high-end suits with few health mods, 3-shot high-end suits with many health mods and 3 to 4-shot any heavy.

lets put this in context for a second, this is the highest tier weapon currently attainable... 2-3 shotting the upper echelon of players with defensive skills is what it should be able to do. With absolutely MAXED damage skills and 2 complex damage mods, the Thales does either ~468 or ~495 damage... depending on how the damage stacking is calculated. I'm leaning to the 468 damage being the most likely (the sum of the damage bonuses as a multiplier as opposed to each damage bonus stacking on one another). Without knowing what the exact EHP of a fully tanked vk1 suit is, it appears that this suits the scenario you envisioned....

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. If you have Weaponry 5 and Proficiency 5 the damage is 323 * 1.1 * 1.15 and not 323 * 1.25.

As it stands now. I have a strongly held viewpoint that ARs need to be nerfed.
I find it ridiculous that the Officer ARs get 72 and 90 round clips.

Clip size as big as an SMG?

I've never used the Thale's, but it's a beast weapon, and the requirements for it's use match it's performance... You're not going to have noobs running around with Thale's. As it should be.

In this recent corp match against STB, I was running a Genesis Sniper Rifle, with triple damage mods, and it still took 3 rounds to down one of their assaults.
With my setup, on average i need 3 rounds to down a HEAVY. Not an assault. 1 round for noobs and scouts. 2 rounds for assaults and logis.

The Thale's is the ONLY sniper rifle with guaranteed stopping power vs. everyone. How rare it is, ensures that it cannot be spammed and abused (i've never EVER gotten one).
It's probably the only real treat that sniper's get. I would not like to see a damage nerf on it.

What I CAN agree to is damage reduction in OTHER snipers in favor of larger clip size, and much enhanced RoF. (The details of which would have to be hashed out.)

lets put this in context for a second, this is the highest tier weapon currently attainable... 2-3 shotting the upper echelon of players with defensive skills is what it should be able to do. With absolutely MAXED damage skills and 2 complex damage mods, the Thales does either ~468 or ~495 damage... depending on how the damage stacking is calculated. I'm leaning to the 468 damage being the most likely (the sum of the damage bonuses as a multiplier as opposed to each damage bonus stacking on one another). Without knowing what the exact EHP of a fully tanked vk1 suit is, it appears that this suits the scenario you envisioned....

This.
The best sniper rifle in the game essentially negates the best shields/armour, turning your proto fits into militia fits. Whats the problem?

You can hide behind the redline and get a lot of kills with no deaths using a thales..AR has to be in the actual battlefield yet you want those nerfed? I disagree with you

Two troll posts in a row, you just won't stop?

If there's 100 people in a corp and all have 20 Thale's that's 2000 in total. Give those to the few snipers in your corp and they'll have several hundred each. If you say that's not a lot GTFO.

Also just because one guy has more Thale's than you does not mean there's an issue with rarity. Maybe you've just been unlucky and been getting other stuff or whatever.

I never said the other Officer weapons weren't better than the Prototypes. Stop reading what you want and read what I write. The other Officer weapons are only slightly better than the Prototypes, and aren't an easy win button like the Thale's. Except for maybe the Forge Gun since it's able to dish out 13-14k damage in less than ten seconds due to both lower charge time and a bigger clip.

A Thale's is not supposed to be able to 1-shot nearly every non-heavy. That's what you want it to be like, but if you can't see past your own nose STFU. Having it being able to do that is seriously gamebreaking in high-end matches. Especially considering the almost half CPU and PG requirements of the Prototype, which means the sniper is also able to fit a lot of other stuff as well.

As it stands now. I have a strongly held viewpoint that ARs need to be nerfed.
I find it ridiculous that the Officer ARs get 72 and 90 round clips.

Clip size as big as an SMG?

I've never used the Thale's, but it's a beast weapon, and the requirements for it's use match it's performance... You're not going to have noobs running around with Thale's. As it should be.

In this recent corp match against STB, I was running a Genesis Sniper Rifle, with triple damage mods, and it still took 3 rounds to down one of their assaults.
With my setup, on average i need 3 rounds to down a HEAVY. Not an assault. 1 round for noobs and scouts. 2 rounds for assaults and logis.

The Thale's is the ONLY sniper rifle with guaranteed stopping power vs. everyone. How rare it is, ensures that it cannot be spammed and abused (i've never EVER gotten one).
It's probably the only real treat that sniper's get. I would not like to see a damage nerf on it.

What I CAN agree to is damage reduction in OTHER snipers in favor of larger clip size, and much enhanced RoF. (The details of which would have to be hashed out.)

You do realize how rare the officer weapons are right?

If you lose that gun in a suit that could be blown up by any stray powerful shot, nade, rail gun, heavy blaster, you lose at least a million if not more.

Officer weapons may not be as rare here than in eve ( have never looted a officer just faction), but still they are not that common, and cannot be purchased or made.

240 damage Thale with a 6/7 shot clip is where I'd have it.

I'll quote Trollsroyce, the guy that's probably spent the most time with the Thale's this build, because that's also what I want the Thale's to be fixed to (because it's broken right now).


240 damage would be a little under 400 damage with Weaponry 5, Proficiency 5 and some damage mods which would be a perfect value in my opinion.

@Jathaniel

i agree that the Thale should stay the ultimate, nigh unbeatable Sniper, as should all the officer toys, since they are [supposedly] the strongeest, hardest to get guns in the game at the moment, but that could always change. meaning varying levels of officer weaponry to collect.

yes, a Thale should be able to take out a Proto Assault VK.1 with maybe two shots, at least. and a headshot? please, that should make their heads explode in a beautiful shower of blood. just as Wolfman's Pistol should be able to take down a heavy with only a few well placed shots. or a Balac AR should be able to rip through a squad of unprepared souls.

we are talking BEST of THE BEST guns here, i will admit some of the ones aside from snipers need a slight boost, if they are going to be the ultimate edge. and there is always a way to take someone down, just find it.... just like you should find that Thale sniper sitting way off in tthe distance

very true, no one is looking at the premise of this game, and that is risk/reward by knowing how to maximize the minimum.

and when you learn that... things like the Thale, or Balac toys seem... boring i would think

but i think the other OFC ones do need a boost, and hell, eventually there might be OFC suits too, so nerfing what is good now only hurts the future for us.

think of what can be improved and tweaked, not just flat out nerfed

Touch the Thale and I'll cut you!

If you are constantly getting Sniped and 1- shot, then just call in your free LAV to move across the open field. Dont blame the sniper or the rifle because you watch an ally die from one shot and then think you are safe to run to the same spot. Most good players will not die that often from a Thales, as they know where most enemy snipers will be sitting and can easily avoid them. I sat in a pub match with a Thales rifle, and killed 15 red dots in the same spot, at the beginning of the match. I think the biggest nerf to snipping will come when the matchmaking will be fixed, and skilled players are pitted against each other.

I guess my point is, if i sit in one spot and get 40+ kills with a thales, is that the rifles fault or the random red dots that keep running into the open?

Touch the Thale and I'll cut you!