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FG/HAV/DS balance

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Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:20:00 - [1] - Quote FG's are beasts! They have to be to counter the HAV, so we don't want to nerf them. But that makes them OP against the DS with its much lower HP. The most heavily tanked dropship can sustain only two decent FG rounds before going down, and only one if you sacrifice a high slot for a CRU, AB, Scanner, Remote Shield Transfer, or other module. A pilot can see and avoid installation turrets, but the FG is invisible until its first round bites into your ship. The next round is coming in about two seconds, leaving you precious little time to evade. The proliferation of militia FGs only makes matters more dire. So how can we balance the FG and DS without affecting the FG's relationship to the HAV? We have two dials we can turn: 1) We can beef up the HP to allow the DS to tank rounds like the HAV 2) We can give the DS a way to avoid being shot in the first place These aren't exclusive, but I would personally prefer a good deal of the latter as I feel pilots should rely on skill more than tank. I have a few ideas on how to accomplish this task, but I want your input as well. Here are two ideas To start off the conversation: Track charged FGs on the DS radar. Those things are spitting out radiation like nobody's business when powered up, and there's no reason that can't be detected and painted on your radar. It might require LOS, or just be attenuated by blocking terrain or structures for balance. This would allow a pilot to avoid dangerous areas. A stealth FG user could still take a DS by surprise and notification doesn't confer immunity, so I don't see it as OP at all. In fact this by itself may not be enough. An active cloaking or "shifting" module. We all know what a cloak is and probably all agree you shouldn't remain invisible while attacking, but what about obscuration? We know CCP has a high tech grenade like that planned as their answer to the smoke grenade. How about an active module that shifts the visual position of the ship such that a FG might miss if aiming at the altered image? Do you have ideas of your own?
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 432	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:28:00 - [2] - Quote I want to say: Come on Skihids, Tank! My DS can take those Militia forge gun bites, its finding the forge gun that's hard. Once friendly fire comes into play, give heavies the worst scanning, so they won't be able to tell what's friendly and what's enemy, even if someone else on their team does know. Basically, range nerf the forge gun by reducing the heavy's ability to identify enemies outside of a medium to close range. So they take a pop shot on accident to a friendly DS. The DS gets knocked, hits a lampost, explodes before everyone can jump. The price of that mistake? -X in WP and -ISK. That's right, negative ISK for friendly fire. Does that work?
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 384	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:32:00 - [3] - Quote Definite yes on the radar idea, and yes to the second idea cause it could lead to stealth squishing. And I would definitely like to see some way of dealing with swarms, like flares or ECM, you could set it as a module for dropships. Its ridiculous that our only defence against them is too outrun them
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 432	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:35:00 - [4] - Quote gbghg wrote: Definite yes on the radar idea, and yes to the second idea cause it could lead to stealth squishing. And I would definitely like to see some way of dealing with swarms, like flares or ECM, you could set it as a module for dropships. Its ridiculous that our only defence against them is too outrun them I did just get Afterburners....gotta try them out tonight.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 384	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:41:00 - [5] - Quote They're really useful, literally activate them and you're gone.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:56:00 - [6] - Quote We do need defenses against the SL, but this thread is about balancing the FG, HAV, and DS. Yes Bojo, we can add tank and the militia guns aren't great threats by themselves. But meet an advanced FG user and you can't tank enough and still have slots to do anything useful. The fog of war idea is interesting, but I'd say less than useful for corp matches where everyone knows where their own assets are by means of coms. Pub matches won't have FF, so a FG user could always take a shot with no repercussions if they were wrong.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 96	Posted - 2013.02.19 23:30:00 - [7] - Quote The most obvious answer, to me, seems to be a range reduction. There's no reason a forge gun should be able to hit from all the way across the map, even when used for its intended purpose against heavy ground vehicles. If forge gunners had to engage from normal fighting range (something like 50m) then they'd have to get pretty much right under a dropship to hit it at full altitude, and somewhere fairly close by to hit it during its normal combat operations. It'd still be possible to insta-gib a dropship, but it would require a very specific and convenient set of circumstances. The downside is I feel this might make forge guns unable to deal with heavy aircraft, which would be an overnerf. For these next two ideas, I draw from the turret mechanics in EVE Online. 1) Scan resolution vs signature radius. If the weapon has a high scan resolution it will get a damage penalty against things with smaller scan resolutions. So they'd do full damage to HAVs, lose a portion of their DPS against dropships, lose more against LAVs, and do almost no damage to infantry. 2) Tracking speed vs rotational velocity. If the target is moving laterally relative to the target faster than the turret can track DPS is reduced in proportion to the difference. Kind of like assuming the hit was a glancing blow because of high speed. So an LAV that is very close to the shooter will get the greatest damage reduction, and an infantryman that is far away will get the smallest reduction. And, of course, moving directly toward the shooter means you'd take full damage regardless of how fast you're going. A "forge gun charging" warning would be pretty cool, too. Having the opportunity to react would be nice.
J Lav Lost-Legion 28	Posted - 2013.02.19 23:37:00 - [8] - Quote What about just making the DS's physically a little smaller? At the moment they seem like really big targets.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.20 13:51:00 - [9] - Quote Interesting. I have thought that dropships are huge for a six person vehicle. It should be able to carry a dozen mercs or shrink down to half its current size.


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