DUST Search - Ambush Scout

0 Try Harder wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

In other words if you are even moderately dampened you have a much greater area in a person's TACNET where you won't appear unless they are training you with their rifle.

The problem is that most decent players have played other FPS games before. Most FPS games do not stick gigantic red marks over enemies. I like the feature a lot in this game because you can light someone up instead of describing a position, but it shouldn't be relied on for anything else.

You see an enemy or something weird, you shoot at it.

All decent FPS players don't rely on a minimap to always show red dots. Even in games where enemies would show up on maps, there are perks like ghost or things like silencers you can use on your weapons. There are no silencers in Dust, so when you shoot you'll pop up on even a heavy's radar.

So basically, profile dampening is "good" against players who are terrible, and just generally a nice thing to have against players who are not. IMO terrible players are terrible, so there's no need to skill up a skill that only works on them because they suck anyways. I've said it so many times, but I don't see much value in a skill that only gives you an advantage over unskilled players, and is not too helpful against those who have a little skill.

If you don't believe me, here's a couple examples of games that people used to play that didn't have minimaps with radar. (i just googled for screenshots, I have no idea what's on the sites more than the pic I'm linking... lol)

UT99
Quake III
Quake Live

The one game that had radar that I can remember is CS. But even in CS, you'd be the biggest fool if you only relied on radar to see where to shoot enemies. It was a huge thing for friendly fire and positioning. Also, there were silencers, and you could do things like camp and creep around. If a CS player used only his radar instead of his eyes...

And finally, people run around like headless chickens in this game. There's no need to hide yourself from radar, red dots never check it anyways.

I just don't understand why people get surprised at red dots running around corners or attempting a flank or coming at you from behind, especially in modes like ambush where enemies can spawn everywhere. You should definitely use your radar, and keep enemy locations in mind, but you should actively be seeking out the guys who are not appearing on your radar instead of those who are.

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Matt4545 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.02.19 03:04:00 - [1] - Quote I've been playing for about a week now and have decided what I do and do not like. I was just trying to make some final decisions before I really start spending SP. 1. How powerful do the Shotguns get down the line? Can I one shot or two shot most heavies if I've heavily invested in Damage(Shotgun Operation at V, Weaponry at V, damage modifiers, etc.). Also, does sharpshooting make a significant impact on how far I can 1 shot an average Scout/Assault Suit? 25% more distance than the 9 ft the better shotguns provide doesn't seem like much. 2. Do profile dampeners really make a huge difference. I've read that scouts can be close enough to touch people from behind and not show on the map as long as no one is directly looking at them, is this accurate ot a bit of an exaggeration? 3. Is improving my scanning skills worth it. While planning routes through the map or just looking for enemies I feel like the mini map is of limited help. If I spend the SP on Range extenders and etc. will I be able to see enemies across the map. Ideally I'd like to see far off enemies on the map(all the way across the level) and make my way to them across map so I have the advantage. Basically just track people across the map and ambush them long before they can see me. Will putting SP into the map allow this or are the range/capabilities of the mini map still too limited even with enhancements??? 4. How exactly does the active scanner work??? I've read a bunch of forum posts on it and no one painted that great of a picture of how it works and what was said was usually debated. I'm really going for a Scout that has extremely high, 1 shot damage and decent range(for a shotgun), really low profile, and a huge scanning range. I believe the first two are possible but just not sure to what extent. Though numerous people have made it sound like the map is only useful at really short ranges even with lots of SP invested and I'd really like to see enemies that are all the way across the map. Any help will be appreciated a lot, I know a lot of this is still being reverse engineered by the community. Thanks in advance
Kram Ennett R.I.f.t 7	Posted - 2013.02.19 04:03:00 - [2] - Quote 1) can't comment from direct experience but from what I've read from others, the higher up shotguns aren't impressive for the SP/ISK required 2) I currently have dropsuit command 5 and profile damp 3 and can sneak up on people without damp modules installed. Whether they can't see me on radar, or are just not paying attention is open to debate 3) Scan radius is set by the suit. Scouts is 25m This can be increased, but not to the point where you'll be seeing across the entire battlefield. Most of the skills will just increase the odds you'll see orange dots within that limited range. 4) not sure exactly what you're referring to here Ultimately you can achieve parts of your goals. Long distance spotting though, is usually done by snipers, and only through line of sight, not via radar.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 427	Posted - 2013.02.19 05:28:00 - [3] - Quote I can say that stealth features for the most part "Broke Yo!". I'd advise setting SP aside and waiting till they get fixed. I can't speak on shotguns, but I can speak for the Scout Suit and being sneaky. (1) Weapons are of little matter. They just affect your range and length of engagement. I've been using Mass Drivers and AR's on my scout for the most part. (2) A scout is all about flanking and speed. A reason you'll see scouts using shotguns is because they can use their superior speed to get into the useable range of a shotgun. However their minimal health limits the length of their engagements, so again the shotgun comes to play. The shotgun is a very quick killing weapon, thus they use it to make sure that they take little damage. I use the Mass Driver from a flanking position because I can sneak behind the enemies rather easily and use the element of surprise to amplify the use of a mass driver. I can use an AR when situations call for it (with a Scout suit). The only problem is that you have to use a very confrontational weapon (can have lengthy engagements), so when using it with a scout, make sure you're unseen, so you can line up headshots, to make sure the enemy goes down fast. (3) Demolitions. Skill into demolitions and with a scout, it's like being a terrorist on the field. I usually sneak around the map, and place them at locations that I know will have traffic. This can range from roads and intersections that HAVs and LAVs will use, to objective sabotaging, to perching yourself on a roof above your enemies and dropping them down like exploding bricks. -Bojo's School of the Trades
XXfootnoteXX ZionTCD Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.02.19 06:01:00 - [4] - Quote Matt4545 wrote: I 4. How exactly does the active scanner work??? I've read a bunch of forum posts on it and no one painted that great of a picture of how it works and what was said was usually debated. I use it on my scout sniper and it works amazing. Deffently worth skilling into.
Treemugger I mug trees. 34	Posted - 2013.02.19 12:35:00 - [5] - Quote A meter is the length of three feet; with the better shotguns, you shoot 27 feet optimally. As for 2shotting heavies, I do it all the time with the standard Breach shotgun and a Complex damage mod.
Dolche Kjyu Dead Six Initiative 0	Posted - 2013.02.19 13:12:00 - [6] - Quote I have the Advanced Shotgun currently with a scout suit. The Advanced Shotty that you can buy with Isk has 8 shots over the milita's 6, can 2 shot, and against those militia heavies, 1 shot heavies. Sneaking around is all about how you go about it. Anyone can do it: run through the red zone, pop back in to renew your timer, rinse, repeat. I agree with the Remote Explosives and Proximity Explosives, as I choose them over grenades any day. I can't tell you how many kills I have gotten from just laying down proximity explosives in intersections that receive high vehicular traffic.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.19 15:18:00 - [7] - Quote I'm spreading the word that sensor range on scouts is a very underated part of their specialty. I"m guessing that right now, most scouts unmodified can see 60% of what will be in their field of vision, or the V on their TACNET. This is the only part of the radar that your 'dropsuit scanning skills' and modules can 'see'. NO matter how good your skills, you wont see people sneaking behind you or flanking you unless someone else is looking at them. Active scanners will though if people are above their precision strength. What this means is that with perfect skills and max suit and targetting range modules a sensor scout will see about 95 meters. Depending on how good their scan precision is, then, they will be able to see the full 25% of the TACNET map that is in front of them. Your field of vision is 90 degrees or 25% of a circle. If you spin around you will effectively be doing an active scan of the area. As far as how dampeners work. You can 'see' anything that is above your precision strength that is in your range and in your field of vision, then you can also see what others see, then you can also see whatever you are directly looking at. So this means if you are all by yourself with nobody guarding your back, you can be suprised even by a militia heavy with no skills. But it should be likely that if you are sweeping your field of vision, looking for red chevrons, you will see him first before he sees you. Because most suits will only see only what they are directly looking at or up to 15-18m and even then they'll only see profiles above like 40dB a scout with a single dampener cannot be 'seen' behind cover or even in the peripheral edges of a players field of view making it that much easier to sneak up on someone. In other words if you are even moderately dampened you have a much greater area in a person's TACNET where you won't appear unless they are training you with their rifle.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.02.19 17:11:00 - [8] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: In other words if you are even moderately dampened you have a much greater area in a person's TACNET where you won't appear unless they are training you with their rifle. The problem is that most decent players have played other FPS games before. Most FPS games do not stick gigantic red marks over enemies. I like the feature a lot in this game because you can light someone up instead of describing a position, but it shouldn't be relied on for anything else. You see an enemy or something weird, you shoot at it. All decent FPS players don't rely on a minimap to always show red dots. Even in games where enemies would show up on maps, there are perks like ghost or things like silencers you can use on your weapons. There are no silencers in Dust, so when you shoot you'll pop up on even a heavy's radar. So basically, profile dampening is "good" against players who are terrible, and just generally a nice thing to have against players who are not. IMO terrible players are terrible, so there's no need to skill up a skill that only works on them because they suck anyways. I've said it so many times, but I don't see much value in a skill that only gives you an advantage over unskilled players, and is not too helpful against those who have a little skill. If you don't believe me, here's a couple examples of games that people used to play that didn't have minimaps with radar. (i just googled for screenshots, I have no idea what's on the sites more than the pic I'm linking... lol) UT99 Quake III Quake Live The one game that had radar that I can remember is CS. But even in CS, you'd be the biggest fool if you only relied on radar to see where to shoot enemies. It was a huge thing for friendly fire and positioning. Also, there were silencers, and you could do things like camp and creep around. If a CS player used only his radar instead of his eyes... And finally, people run around like headless chickens in this game. There's no need to hide yourself from radar, red dots never check it anyways. I just don't understand why people get surprised at red dots running around corners or attempting a flank or coming at you from behind, especially in modes like ambush where enemies can spawn everywhere. You should definitely use your radar, and keep enemy locations in mind, but you should actively be seeking out the guys who are not appearing on your radar instead of those who are.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.19 17:50:00 - [9] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: In other words if you are even moderately dampened you have a much greater area in a person's TACNET where you won't appear unless they are training you with their rifle. The problem is that most decent players have played other FPS games before. Most FPS games do not stick gigantic red marks over enemies. I like the feature a lot in this game because you can light someone up instead of describing a position, but it shouldn't be relied on for anything else. You see an enemy or something weird, you shoot at it. All decent FPS players don't rely on a minimap to always show red dots. Even in games where enemies would show up on maps, there are perks like ghost or things like silencers you can use on your weapons. There are no silencers in Dust, so when you shoot you'll pop up on even a heavy's radar. So basically, profile dampening is "good" against players who are terrible, and just generally a nice thing to have against players who are not. IMO terrible players are terrible, so there's no need to skill up a skill that only works on them because they suck anyways. I've said it so many times, but I don't see much value in a skill that only gives you an advantage over unskilled players, and is not too helpful against those who have a little skill. If you don't believe me, here's a couple examples of games that people used to play that didn't have minimaps with radar. (i just googled for screenshots, I have no idea what's on the sites more than the pic I'm linking... lol) UT99 Quake III Quake Live The one game that had radar that I can remember is CS. But even in CS, you'd be the biggest fool if you only relied on radar to see where to shoot enemies. It was a huge thing for friendly fire and positioning. Also, there were silencers, and you could do things like camp and creep around. If a CS player used only his radar instead of his eyes... And finally, people run around like headless chickens in this game. There's no need to hide yourself from radar, red dots never check it anyways. I just don't understand why people get surprised at red dots running around corners or attempting a flank or coming at you from behind, especially in modes like ambush where enemies can spawn everywhere. You should definitely use your radar, and keep enemy locations in mind, but you should actively be seeking out the guys who are not appearing on your radar instead of those who are. You are basically making the argument for me for increased scan range. This helps light up red dots in front of you. You dont' have to zoom in as much and you don't have to run from cover to cover since your scanner will pick them up. Make a trash scout with 2 militia scan range modules and you will see what I mean.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:40:00 - [10] - Quote Awareness is a basic skill. It's like aiming and shooting at red dots. Imagine if you sight your rifle at an enemy red dot you see. You're about to shoot and... Clippy, the Annoying Windows Paperclip wrote: It looks like you're about to shoot a red dot. You should shoot him. Do you need help pulling the trigger? Press R1 on your controller or RMB to shoot. Profile damping is similar. You're running around, there's a corner you can't see around and... Clippy, the Annoying Windows Paperclip wrote: It looks like you're about to turn a corner. Did you know that enemies can be behind corners? Do you want me to put a red dot on your radar so you know that there might be a red dot behind that corner? Basically... You should play like there are hordes of red dots coming at you from all sides and directions. This means that you want to fight strategically based on known strengths and weaknesses. Choke points are key. You need to minimize the number of ways an enemy can hit you from, effectively forcing them to fight you where you desire. The reverse is true too. Let's say you're approaching the choke point, you should be expecting the enemy to be there defending it. If for some reason he's not, then you can now use that point to your advantage and expect the enemy to attack you. You might say, "but what if they are waiting to ambush us before we reach the checkpoint?" Well, it's good that you asked that because they probably will be. So now you know that red dots will ambush you at some point on your way to the checkpoint. See? So if you play like there are red dots on your radar, it doesn't matter if there actually are or are not red dots in the location you saw or pretended to see on your radar. It's not an infinite cycle either. There's only a limited number of ways to get from point A to point B. 99% of the time it's your own fault if you were attacked from an area you did not expect to be attacked from, even if the enemy did not show up on your radar. You **** up. You should have been expecting it. I speak American English. I don't know if the word "adapt" has a different meaning in British English, but I'll give the American definition of the word. (It might have a different meaning, there are so many words that do it's quite amazing. My favorite example is the word "greed", but that's for another post) v. a-+dapt-+ed, a-+dapt-+ing, a-+dapts v.tr. 1. To make suitable to or fit for a specific use or situation: adapted the novel into a movie; adapted the company policy to take Internet use into account. 2. To cause to be able to survive and reproduce under certain conditions. Used in the passive: "Every species is adapted to a rather restricted selection of properties of the environment" (Ernst Mayr). v.intr. To become adapted: a species that has adapted to a low-oxygen environment. From The American Heritage Dictionary If you're adapting, you're changing to fit the environment. You're not proactively changing the environment and forcing your opponent to adapt to what you desire. Those who "adapt" have lost, and will always lose. I see profile dampening as an attempt to adapt. Your opponent's system makes you appear as a red dot on his radar, so you adapt to that and increase your profile dampening skills. Your opponent finds you and kills you anyways. You "adapt" to this new situation, and now use dampening mods in addition to scout suits and skills so you'll almost never appear on your opponent's radar. Before you even try this, your opponent pretends that there are always red dots on his radar, so you are found and die again. What are you going to do now? Find another way to adapt? Try something "new"? It'll never work because your opponent is proactive instead of reactive. He doesn't need to adapt to the current environment because he dictates what it is. He doesn't need to counter your moves, he's forcing you to attempt to counter his. If you can make your opponent counter your moves, then you have the advantage. Beren Hurin wrote: You are basically making the argument for me for increased scan range. So after my long post, I'd say it can be helpful now and then. Eventually I'll skill up the range, but there's no way I'd drop a mod slot for that on a scout suit. It is advantageous in certain situations, but I would by no means put as much emphasis as people on these training forums do. Beren Hurin wrote:** You dont' have to zoom in as much and you don't have to run from cover to cover -_- Unless you're Superman and there's no Kryptonite around, you should always be "zooming in" and running from cover to cover as best you can.

Jack Sharkey42 Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2013.02.19 22:49:00 - [11] - Quote I can only add one decent piece of info to this. I've got an alt that's going for the same built, and I looooove having a bigger scan radius! It lets you see people farther away that aren't facing you and are headed in another direction. As fast as you are anyone even at the edge of your radius is only a few seconds away at best. Shotgun scouts I would think have the MOST use for powerful radar. It'll let you see where people are around you for longer ,the direction they're facing, and where they're going. Most of the kills I've gotten were from watching a little blip on my radar whose running in one direction while I stand behind a pipe and wait for him to pass me, then charge out and blow em in half!
Sontie VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 92	Posted - 2013.02.22 11:20:00 - [12] - Quote Beren I want to test some of these things with you. I have an alt (in your omni labs channel actually) who has precision 4 with 1 adv precision enhancer, range 3 with 2 adv range amps and I can most people coming up behind me on my radar, at least within 10 yards. Can I really only scan out the 90 degrees in front of me? I never noticed this in my testing. I will try it after downtime. Also, nova knives.


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