DUST Search - Why so few SMG scouts?

Rei Shepard wrote:

Ignoble Son wrote:

Roy Ventus wrote:

@Ignoble Son :O Another SMG-Scout-Bro...we need a shorter name. SMGer? >.< The few SMGers New Eden has are excellent at what they do, I'm sure. Do you use your agility to support your team or do you just go solo?-á

I find myself doing both. I'll scare some reds into backing into incoming blues just by spraying their shields down from a corner. Or I'll get the enemies attention and drag them over to like two or three blues for them to get gun downed.-á

When I'm by myself I focus heavily on speed and agility. I never try to go head to head but sometimes it be like dat, you know? You get spawned into an assault on your point and you're stuck defending after the first responders got mowed down. Usually I'll just sneak up behind someone and carve em up or I'll speed past them and blaze them in their soft spots and then high tail it out of there...

Some would probably call these moves...wimpy but I'm pretty sure those people probably died by my hands. And if not, they will if we ever meet.

It is a fun setup to play. A real challenge. Curtain death is lurking around every corner. I play a smart game with (the majority of the time) a dedicated group of team players, all of whom I am very proude to be in asosiation with and to call my friends. Most of the time I play the role of point man (drawing the initial enemy fire while the rest of my squad shortly falls in behind me and mops up the leftovers or suckering unwary victims into bad tactical positions) or advanced squad recon (dropping uplinks or gathering intel on enemy positions strong/weak points at the front lines). I do more than my fair share of killing.

Most of the time I run a type two scout, with a repair tool and nano injector. It is a an unrivaled force multiplayer.

It is good to see another dedicated SMG scout.

Cheers

SMG is awesome, as a backup when your main gun has run out of ammo, though using it as a main weapon means severely gimping yourself. you can take out around 4-5 people with a 60 mag clip from the AR, but only around 2-3 from the SMG, 2 when spraying & praying, 3 if you aim and its optimum range is in your face.

Not ideal, unless you get lucky.

But i guess its your clone and ISK to waste

Hey look enemies on the other side of the street .....aww shucks
Sh** sniper up there ....oooh daym ....
Shoot the Lav Driver quick .....ow feck wait ...
Heavy incoming, shoot it shooot IT /scout uses Water gun....its not very effective
LASER!! ....BLIP ...there goes the scout ...damnit...
Shotgun Scout!!! ....Feeling Lucky ?

Like i said, its a good weapon, not Main weapon material and its really a spray & pray weapon.

Btw Ignoble Son, i start to see a pattern here, you want more dodge options while spraying & praying....yeah ....no...

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Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:12:00 - [1] - Quote Why are there so few SMG scouts in the game? I run a limited, and basic fit but I can do more damage in that than in my more advanced, and costly, Assault Fits. Is it because it takes a lot of balls to not be able to insta-shoot someone with a shotgun while running low defense? Is it because SMGs feel weird(they feel real good to me <.<)? Or is it because you're an easy target for the other team(lolz easy target, but a hard catch)?
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote because scout suits are terrible at everything and a heavy will just eat the magazine of ammunition and proceed to violate them with the HMG in a half second.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:16:00 - [3] - Quote T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked some of them before.
XANDER KAG Crimson Wings Brigade 14	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote I think it might be the relatively low damage per bullet ratio and the fact you have to get A LOT closer than with an AR. (I ALWAYS keep around an SMG, as a spare gun if nothing else) Its always funny when we both have to reload and I just pull out the SMG
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:20:00 - [5] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked *some* of them before. Do you see the problem with your statement? Scout SMG just isn't a very good choice of a set up. SMG effectiveness towards shields is awful and everyone is running shields. Without flux nades it's not going to work well.
Striker Battalion Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:29:00 - [6] - Quote At one time SMG scouts were one of the more dominate builds in the Beta. However, since then SMG damage bonuses were nerfed, strafing speeds were nerfed, advanced suits EHP was nerfed, and hit detection improved to some extent. As a result the game became more about ranged combat over CQC and as such this type of scout was no longer considered to be optimum build over other options. To be fair I have seen several players pull it off but they are the minority.
Talruum Tezztarozza Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 73	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:35:00 - [7] - Quote I believe most people here DO KEEP their SMG as their sidearm regardless of suit. But it is what it is, sidearm. So you won't see it in action that much as long as a primary weapon still do its job.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:36:00 - [8] - Quote i run smg scout
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:37:00 - [9] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked *some* of them before. Do you see the problem with your statement? Scout SMG just isn't a very good choice of a set up. SMG effectiveness towards shields is awful and everyone is running shields. Without flux nades it's not going to work well. I don't see the problem with the statement...Why did you underline "some" in the quote? O.o I don't use Flux Nades and I do quite well against heavily shielded opponents most of the time.
Barnabas Wrex Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 147	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:51:00 - [10] - Quote In my experience with my SMG, It works awesome as a backup in a fire fight when the enemies shields are probably down already. But I've tried it as a primary aaaand.... AR is better at longer ranges, and shotgun is better at shorter ranges.

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 21:07:00 - [11] - Quote SMGs as sidearms are really good...ironically I prefer pistols instead.
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 914	Posted - 2013.02.15 21:07:00 - [12] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Why are there so few SMG scouts in the game? I run a limited, and basic fit but I can do more damage in that than in my more advanced, and costly, Assault Fits. Is it because it takes a lot of balls to not be able to insta-shoot someone with a shotgun while running low defense? Is it because SMGs feel weird(they feel real good to me <.<)? Or is it because you're an easy target for the other team(lolz easy target, but a hard catch)? I use a dual SMG scout set up in ambush maps where there are tight passages. Works great.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.02.15 21:16:00 - [13] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked *some* of them before. Do you see the problem with your statement? Scout SMG just isn't a very good choice of a set up. SMG effectiveness towards shields is awful and everyone is running shields. Without flux nades it's not going to work well. I don't see the problem with the statement...Why did you underline "some" in the quote? O.o I don't use Flux Nades and I do quite well against heavily shielded opponents most of the time. some is not all which means when your entering into combat with a heavy your odds are a percent chance rather then certainty I have that my HMG will pulverize you for thinking running around me is your solution. Scouts need fixing. If that SMG came with a cloak - that would probably be a whole nother story. And I'd find that quiet fair.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.15 21:23:00 - [14] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Why are there so few SMG scouts in the game? I run a limited, and basic fit but I can do more damage in that than in my more advanced, and costly, Assault Fits. Is it because it takes a lot of balls to not be able to insta-shoot someone with a shotgun while running low defense? Is it because SMGs feel weird(they feel real good to me <.<)? Or is it because you're an easy target for the other team(lolz easy target, but a hard catch)? Hay, I'm an SMG scout. Just got my ishukone today. Headed strait for Cala's next, then shape shooter pro.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 22:46:00 - [15] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked *some* of them before. Do you see the problem with your statement? Scout SMG just isn't a very good choice of a set up. SMG effectiveness towards shields is awful and everyone is running shields. Without flux nades it's not going to work well. I don't see the problem with the statement...Why did you underline "some" in the quote? O.o I don't use Flux Nades and I do quite well against heavily shielded opponents most of the time. some is not all which means when your entering into combat with a heavy your odds are a percent chance rather then certainty I have that my HMG will pulverize you for thinking running around me is your solution. Scouts need fixing. If that SMG came with a cloak - that would probably be a whole nother story. And I'd find that quiet fair. o.o By my statement I meant that I can out run em all. I can even "walk" faster than them as well lol. >.> You're hyping heavies up too much. Maybe you are a good heavy with a brain. Others? Not so much. Even then once I come upon a heavy who can actually think critically, I devise a plan right then and there to get rid of them. Usually it's a combined effort of stealth, speed, and awareness. - @Ignoble Son :O Another SMG-Scout-Bro...we need a shorter name. SMGer? >.< The few SMGers New Eden has are excellent at what they do, I'm sure. Do you use your agility to support your team or do you just go solo? I find myself doing both. I'll scare some reds into backing into incoming blues just by spraying their shields down from a corner. Or I'll get the enemies attention and drag them over to like two or three blues for them to get gun downed. When I'm by myself I focus heavily on speed and agility. I never try to go head to head but sometimes it be like dat, you know? You get spawned into an assault on your point and you're stuck defending after the first responders got mowed down. Usually I'll just sneak up behind someone and carve em up or I'll speed past them and blaze them in their soft spots and then high tail it out of there... Some would probably call these moves...wimpy but I'm pretty sure those people probably died by my hands. And if not, they will if we ever meet.
zeek1227 zeek1227 Blitzkrieg Co. 144	Posted - 2013.02.15 23:00:00 - [16] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Why are there so few SMG scouts in the game? I run a limited, and basic fit but I can do more damage in that than in my more advanced, and costly, Assault Fits. Is it because it takes a lot of balls to not be able to insta-shoot someone with a shotgun while running low defense? Is it because SMGs feel weird(they feel real good to me <.<)? Or is it because you're an easy target for the other team(lolz easy target, but a hard catch)? well i suppose its cuz scout had low life so low life with low damage that the smg does would not be a very good combination if used by unskilled players even with all the speed Mostly you either want to have alot of life or do alot of damage or both if at all possible
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.15 23:15:00 - [17] - Quote It's not a well known playstyle- I've never tried it myself, but it sounds like a hell of a time. What I think you're talking about is going in mainly using melee, but using an SMG for filler damage when you're either out of melee range, or too low on stamina
Reout Karaal Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.02.15 23:19:00 - [18] - Quote It's not run & slay, like assault. It actually requires certain mindset. Ghosts are fun, because people rely on the radar too much. Unfortunately you need to reach the 209 to be reckoned with while on SMG & Dragonfly based builds are paper-thin (even with complex shield ext). But scout with GEK/CRG is fun as well, you just need super-sensory awareness of your surroundings. It makes the game exciting again. You're not sporting 500hp shields anymore, so every hit counts. It's not for full frontal assault players, but rather for all those "bad at FPS people" who like to plan ahead, move around obstacles silently and know that best place to be is behind reds. Heavy can still sneak up on us, but we can pounce! Just fun, man.
Treemugger I mug trees. 34	Posted - 2013.02.15 23:27:00 - [19] - Quote The shotgun is more efficient. Its low ROF and high-damage output means you can minimize your time exposed to the enemy, especially with the Breach. Shoot, strafe back into cover, reload, shoot, cover, reload, shoot. During that time, you were exposed for about a second and dealt enough damage to wipe out a heavy. You can also one-shot people. That is just the best. Two shots, two deaths, one happy scout bunny-hopping off into the distance. Freefalling shots are great, too. Jump off a high platform and shoot the guy below you while you're falling. Because of the angle, it's typically a headshot so they die with a single blast. The SMG actually goes hand-in-hand with the Breach. If you don't have the best of aim, your target will probably have like 1/7 armor left after the two shots. Instead of reloading, you can just whip out the SMG and spray them down.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 23:38:00 - [20] - Quote I'm gonna take it you're quoting players who're saying that these type of players are actually bad at FPSes? But yeah. It doesn't require extreme planning but you can't just roll up on enemies and think you will survive. Hell. You can't even shoot your target without thinking first. Things that usually run through my mind when I'm about to press the trigger: 1. Which route is the safest escape? 2. Will I have to hop closer? 3. If I reload. Then what? 4. How many enemies are around? 5. How many enemies are watching me? 6. How long will it take for me to kill this person. 7. Can I get closer? 8. Will they be susceptible to a grenade.?

Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:00:00 - [21] - Quote Before the last reset, my smg scout was only viable after dedicating its fitting to shields. It was sooo much fun with or without shields, but I only started getting a respectable and, more importantly; financially stable, KDR when I got an A-series fitted with shield extenders. Since shields take up a helluvalotta SP, I'm guessing it's just too early to see any particularly successful ones. I do miss it tho. Especially once sharpshooter was up & smg spray down. I used to hunt proto suits for kicks. Good times.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:01:00 - [22] - Quote I love my SL SMG scout! It fits my play style perfectly and is so versatile that all of my fits are variations of it.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:07:00 - [23] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: @Ignoble Son :O Another SMG-Scout-Bro...we need a shorter name. SMGer? >.< The few SMGers New Eden has are excellent at what they do, I'm sure. Do you use your agility to support your team or do you just go solo?-á I find myself doing both. I'll scare some reds into backing into incoming blues just by spraying their shields down from a corner. Or I'll get the enemies attention and drag them over to like two or three blues for them to get gun downed.-á When I'm by myself I focus heavily on speed and agility. I never try to go head to head but sometimes it be like dat, you know? You get spawned into an assault on your point and you're stuck defending after the first responders got mowed down. Usually I'll just sneak up behind someone and carve em up or I'll speed past them and blaze them in their soft spots and then high tail it out of there... Some would probably call these moves...wimpy but I'm pretty sure those people probably died by my hands. And if not, they will if we ever meet. It is a fun setup to play. A real challenge. Curtain death is lurking around every corner. I play a smart game with (the majority of the time) a dedicated group of team players, all of whom I am very proude to be in asosiation with and to call my friends. Most of the time I play the role of point man (drawing the initial enemy fire while the rest of my squad shortly falls in behind me and mops up the leftovers or suckering unwary victims into bad tactical positions) or advanced squad recon (dropping uplinks or gathering intel on enemy positions strong/weak points at the front lines). I do more than my fair share of killing. Most of the time I run a type two scout, with a repair tool and nano injector. It is a an unrivaled force multiplayer. It is good to see another dedicated SMG scout. Cheers
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:34:00 - [24] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: @Ignoble Son :O Another SMG-Scout-Bro...we need a shorter name. SMGer? >.< The few SMGers New Eden has are excellent at what they do, I'm sure. Do you use your agility to support your team or do you just go solo?-á I find myself doing both. I'll scare some reds into backing into incoming blues just by spraying their shields down from a corner. Or I'll get the enemies attention and drag them over to like two or three blues for them to get gun downed.-á When I'm by myself I focus heavily on speed and agility. I never try to go head to head but sometimes it be like dat, you know? You get spawned into an assault on your point and you're stuck defending after the first responders got mowed down. Usually I'll just sneak up behind someone and carve em up or I'll speed past them and blaze them in their soft spots and then high tail it out of there... Some would probably call these moves...wimpy but I'm pretty sure those people probably died by my hands. And if not, they will if we ever meet. It is a fun setup to play. A real challenge. Curtain death is lurking around every corner. I play a smart game with (the majority of the time) a dedicated group of team players, all of whom I am very proude to be in asosiation with and to call my friends. Most of the time I play the role of point man (drawing the initial enemy fire while the rest of my squad shortly falls in behind me and mops up the leftovers or suckering unwary victims into bad tactical positions) or advanced squad recon (dropping uplinks or gathering intel on enemy positions strong/weak points at the front lines). I do more than my fair share of killing. Most of the time I run a type two scout, with a repair tool and nano injector. It is a an unrivaled force multiplayer. It is good to see another dedicated SMG scout. Cheers SMG is awesome, as a backup when your main gun has run out of ammo, though using it as a main weapon means severely gimping yourself. you can take out around 4-5 people with a 60 mag clip from the AR, but only around 2-3 from the SMG, 2 when spraying & praying, 3 if you aim and its optimum range is in your face. Not ideal, unless you get lucky. But i guess its your clone and ISK to waste Hey look enemies on the other side of the street .....aww shucks Sh** sniper up there ....oooh daym .... Shoot the Lav Driver quick .....ow feck wait ... Heavy incoming, shoot it shooot IT /scout uses Water gun....its not very effective LASER!! ....BLIP ...there goes the scout ...damnit... Shotgun Scout!!! ....Feeling Lucky ? Like i said, its a good weapon, not Main weapon material and its really a spray & pray weapon. Btw Ignoble Son, i start to see a pattern here, you want more dodge options while spraying & praying....yeah ....no...
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:34:00 - [25] - Quote :3 Yeah. Lol us SMGers are like frontier-men. We're paving the way for future players by experimenting with our fits. Personally I run a very cheap fit with basic stamina recovery booster and speed boosters. I believe my SMG is actually an advanced version of the Assault. I also have some grenades. I used to have some knives but they didn't help me as much as I wished and ended up being more of a cost than a benefit.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.16 02:06:00 - [26] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: @Ignoble Son :O Another SMG-Scout-Bro...we need a shorter name. SMGer? >.< The few SMGers New Eden has are excellent at what they do, I'm sure. Do you use your agility to support your team or do you just go solo?-á I find myself doing both. I'll scare some reds into backing into incoming blues just by spraying their shields down from a corner. Or I'll get the enemies attention and drag them over to like two or three blues for them to get gun downed.-á When I'm by myself I focus heavily on speed and agility. I never try to go head to head but sometimes it be like dat, you know? You get spawned into an assault on your point and you're stuck defending after the first responders got mowed down. Usually I'll just sneak up behind someone and carve em up or I'll speed past them and blaze them in their soft spots and then high tail it out of there... Some would probably call these moves...wimpy but I'm pretty sure those people probably died by my hands. And if not, they will if we ever meet. It is a fun setup to play. A real challenge. Curtain death is lurking around every corner. I play a smart game with (the majority of the time) a dedicated group of team players, all of whom I am very proude to be in asosiation with and to call my friends. Most of the time I play the role of point man (drawing the initial enemy fire while the rest of my squad shortly falls in behind me and mops up the leftovers or suckering unwary victims into bad tactical positions) or advanced squad recon (dropping uplinks or gathering intel on enemy positions strong/weak points at the front lines). I do more than my fair share of killing. Most of the time I run a type two scout, with a repair tool and nano injector. It is a an unrivaled force multiplayer. It is good to see another dedicated SMG scout. Cheers SMG is awesome, as a backup when your main gun has run out of ammo, though using it as a main weapon means severely gimping yourself. you can take out around 4-5 people with a 60 mag clip from the AR, but only around 2-3 from the SMG, 2 when spraying & praying, 3 if you aim and its optimum range is in your face. Not ideal, unless you get lucky. But i guess its your clone and ISK to waste Hey look enemies on the other side of the street .....aww shucks Sh** sniper up there ....oooh daym .... Shoot the Lav Driver quick .....ow feck wait ... Heavy incoming, shoot it shooot IT /scout uses Water gun....its not very effective LASER!! ....BLIP ...there goes the scout ...damnit... Shotgun Scout!!! ....Feeling Lucky ? Like i said, its a good weapon, not Main weapon material and its really a spray & pray weapon. Btw Ignoble Son, i start to see a pattern here, you want more dodge options while spraying & praying....yeah ....no... It is painfully obvious that you have never used a desently skilled SMG. Or well fitted scout. I'm sporting a 2.04 KDR with 3187 kills and 1566 deaths at the moment and it continues to rise every day. It is nothing big to brag about but I am also in the sh!t 100% of the time. You play the game your way and I'll play it mine.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 02:34:00 - [27] - Quote .-. Yeah...I make it work as a main gun. Able to take out 5-6 if I'm going good.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.02.16 04:06:00 - [28] - Quote I can do the same damage, if not more damage with a free raven suit, and last longer then any scout.
Treemugger I mug trees. 34	Posted - 2013.02.16 04:17:00 - [29] - Quote It's funny. After I posted how much better shotguns were, I logged onto Dust and got owned several times by an SMG Scout. GJ, whoever that was. Still think the shotgun is better, but the SMG is more reliable with its ease-of-aim. You guys keep pioneering because I'm wanting to see how good this is end-game.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.16 04:28:00 - [30] - Quote Because the SMG combined with the Scout suit is not a high survivability combo. It is better than CQC with a Sniper rifle, which is why it makes a good secondary weapon on that suit.



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