DUST Search - Why so few SMG scouts?

ratamaq doc wrote:

I think the point that is missed here is the Type II 'Logi Scout' fit, which only has 1 weapon slot. It sacrifices the side arm for another equipment slot. Then equipping and injector and rep gun, you've just turned yourself into a really fast (although thin) Logi, that is an asset to your team.

Using an SMG over an AR with this fit gives you several advantages.

-In CQ, if you are smart, you are going to win vs an AR in the majority of suits in that people are running around. This isn't how good 'you' are, this is Math.
-Faster reload than an AR
-With no AR, you typically won't put yourself in a position of hitting someone from range which often exposes you.
-You don't have the range limit of a Shotgun.

There will always be exceptions and fittings that can counter. But rare so far are the Type II's and B's that are so shield heavy that a well skilled SMG can't drain them. This is probably due to the Blueprint type 1's and the AUR A's that has most players armor heavy and slow at the moment. And the rules may change once people catch on to the fact That skilled FPSers in Shield suits are owning them and people actually start spending ISK on their suits.

The SMG kills fast and has, imo, the best ADS in the game. I wasn't a believer either until I took Ign's advice, actually skilled it, and used something other than the Toxin.

If you don't like it, or don't believe it, don't try it. But fact of the matter is there is a viable place for this build on the battle field and I love being in a squad with that build in the right hands.


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Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:12:00 - [1] - Quote Why are there so few SMG scouts in the game? I run a limited, and basic fit but I can do more damage in that than in my more advanced, and costly, Assault Fits. Is it because it takes a lot of balls to not be able to insta-shoot someone with a shotgun while running low defense? Is it because SMGs feel weird(they feel real good to me <.<)? Or is it because you're an easy target for the other team(lolz easy target, but a hard catch)?
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:16:00 - [2] - Quote T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked some of them before.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:37:00 - [3] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked *some* of them before. Do you see the problem with your statement? Scout SMG just isn't a very good choice of a set up. SMG effectiveness towards shields is awful and everyone is running shields. Without flux nades it's not going to work well. I don't see the problem with the statement...Why did you underline "some" in the quote? O.o I don't use Flux Nades and I do quite well against heavily shielded opponents most of the time.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 21:07:00 - [4] - Quote SMGs as sidearms are really good...ironically I prefer pistols instead.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 22:46:00 - [5] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: T_T You make it sound like them tubsters can't be outran. I've out-walked *some* of them before. Do you see the problem with your statement? Scout SMG just isn't a very good choice of a set up. SMG effectiveness towards shields is awful and everyone is running shields. Without flux nades it's not going to work well. I don't see the problem with the statement...Why did you underline "some" in the quote? O.o I don't use Flux Nades and I do quite well against heavily shielded opponents most of the time. some is not all which means when your entering into combat with a heavy your odds are a percent chance rather then certainty I have that my HMG will pulverize you for thinking running around me is your solution. Scouts need fixing. If that SMG came with a cloak - that would probably be a whole nother story. And I'd find that quiet fair. o.o By my statement I meant that I can out run em all. I can even "walk" faster than them as well lol. >.> You're hyping heavies up too much. Maybe you are a good heavy with a brain. Others? Not so much. Even then once I come upon a heavy who can actually think critically, I devise a plan right then and there to get rid of them. Usually it's a combined effort of stealth, speed, and awareness. - @Ignoble Son :O Another SMG-Scout-Bro...we need a shorter name. SMGer? >.< The few SMGers New Eden has are excellent at what they do, I'm sure. Do you use your agility to support your team or do you just go solo? I find myself doing both. I'll scare some reds into backing into incoming blues just by spraying their shields down from a corner. Or I'll get the enemies attention and drag them over to like two or three blues for them to get gun downed. When I'm by myself I focus heavily on speed and agility. I never try to go head to head but sometimes it be like dat, you know? You get spawned into an assault on your point and you're stuck defending after the first responders got mowed down. Usually I'll just sneak up behind someone and carve em up or I'll speed past them and blaze them in their soft spots and then high tail it out of there... Some would probably call these moves...wimpy but I'm pretty sure those people probably died by my hands. And if not, they will if we ever meet.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.15 23:38:00 - [6] - Quote I'm gonna take it you're quoting players who're saying that these type of players are actually bad at FPSes? But yeah. It doesn't require extreme planning but you can't just roll up on enemies and think you will survive. Hell. You can't even shoot your target without thinking first. Things that usually run through my mind when I'm about to press the trigger: 1. Which route is the safest escape? 2. Will I have to hop closer? 3. If I reload. Then what? 4. How many enemies are around? 5. How many enemies are watching me? 6. How long will it take for me to kill this person. 7. Can I get closer? 8. Will they be susceptible to a grenade.?
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:34:00 - [7] - Quote :3 Yeah. Lol us SMGers are like frontier-men. We're paving the way for future players by experimenting with our fits. Personally I run a very cheap fit with basic stamina recovery booster and speed boosters. I believe my SMG is actually an advanced version of the Assault. I also have some grenades. I used to have some knives but they didn't help me as much as I wished and ended up being more of a cost than a benefit.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 02:34:00 - [8] - Quote .-. Yeah...I make it work as a main gun. Able to take out 5-6 if I'm going good.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 16:17:00 - [9] - Quote You don't make sense. Let me address my actual annoyances here before I get into the meat of it: We're not toting the SMGs to be cool. Who in their right mind would do that? We love what we can do with the SMG and Scout suit. It actually does help out the whole team even if the SMG isn't as powerful or accurate as the AR. For example, running for points at the beginning of the game. Point hacked, first wave come and I rip em to shreds with a combine use of speed and heavy SMG fire. Second example, rolling with my squad as we cap points. I go ahead of them and scout the area like an actual scout and rip on those who spot me or those who aren't paying attention. Third example, I play guard on a point in a industrial complex. My speed allows me to quickly traverse around, my agility allows me to get to where others couldn't. My SMG? It allows for extreme bursts in a short amount of time so that I can use my knowledge of the surrounding to overtake the enemy. Now to the meat. It's illogical to say that us using a SMG is bringing our team down BECAUSE others are actually weak. It's like saying you using an assault rifle is bringing the team down because you aren't doing supportive sniping when it's needed or because right now heavy suppressive fire is needed and you're just lollygagging with your AR or because some logistics is needed and you're just focused on your K/D with an AR. Not only that but you can only do so much for your team unless you're in a squad with friends/corpmates. Everyone has to adjust. EVERYONE. If you're still sniping when everyone retreated into an urban complex with so much cover that you're getting no headshots, then you need to switch up. If you're assaulting with an AR and you're under constant fire by laser rifles in a closed off area with only one entrance, you need to switch up. If you're running around with a SMG when they're heavies everywhere in a rather clear terrain then you to switch up. I don't believe most people put their eggs in the same basket. I don't. I have a SMGer fit, a Uplink Runner fit, two assaulter fits, a sniper fit, a logistics fit, and a AV fit. I tend to use the SMGer and assaulters the most because I'm more inclined to frontline because I have to make up for others. Yes. The SMGer does make up for the weaknesses shown in the frontline rush. Shrugs And when I feel that everyone is rushing and it's redundant to run assault, I'll go into AV or sniper, or I'll use my SMGer(it's a multi-purpose assault scout if we're going to be frank) to run around and take down snipers, Red AVs, and any other infantry unit that would be weak against CQC. Why just those that are weak to CQC? Because everyone else is running assault and are taking on the enemy who is most likely a majority of assaulters. It's a suppo
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 20:23:00 - [10] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point that is missed here is the Type II 'Logi Scout' fit, which only has 1 weapon slot. It sacrifices the side arm for another equipment slot. Then equipping and injector and rep gun, you've just turned yourself into a really fast (although thin) Logi, that is an asset to your team. Using an SMG over an AR with this fit gives you several advantages. -In CQ, if you are smart, you are going to win vs an AR in the majority of suits in that people are running around. This isn't how good 'you' are, this is Math. -Faster reload than an AR -With no AR, you typically won't put yourself in a position of hitting someone from range which often exposes you. -You don't have the range limit of a Shotgun. There will always be exceptions and fittings that can counter. But rare so far are the Type II's and B's that are so shield heavy that a well skilled SMG can't drain them. This is probably due to the Blueprint type 1's and the AUR A's that has most players armor heavy and slow at the moment. And the rules may change once people catch on to the fact That skilled FPSers in Shield suits are owning them and people actually start spending ISK on their suits. The SMG kills fast and has, imo, the best ADS in the game. I wasn't a believer either until I took Ign's advice, actually skilled it, and used something other than the Toxin. If you don't like it, or don't believe it, don't try it. But fact of the matter is there is a viable place for this build on the battle field and I love being in a squad with that build in the right hands. This. I actually ran a similiar support fit but it was an AV. The "main weapon" was the Swarm Launcher in the light slot while the "sidearm" was the SMG. In actuality, it was the SMG that was the main weapon and the Swarm Launchers that was a sidearm. Not only was I able to quickly take out vehicles, I could also take down oncoming enemies or enemies who were able to survive the wreckage. I also carried "trip wire" detonators which I used to prepare a safety line for my team at a point.

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 181	Posted - 2013.03.25 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Why so few Scrambler Pistol Scouts? This. I'm going to start playing more with them after I spec into my scout more. >.> Believe you can do some serious damage with an advanced pistol and good aim and speed. The fact that you'll be using a pistol instead of something that requires more power also mean you'll have more space for higher-end modules on your fitting :3. Complex Sidearms, shield regulator, and speed modules. Catches a nosebleed
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 197	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:54:00 - [12] - Quote Upon the new build, more SMG scouts will come out the dark. This thread will mark my hipster-ness. I was a SMGer before new modules came in.