DUST Search - Why so few SMG scouts?

Roy Ventus wrote:

ratamaq doc wrote:

I think the point that is missed here is the Type II 'Logi Scout' fit, which only has 1 weapon slot. It sacrifices the side arm for another equipment slot. Then equipping and injector and rep gun, you've just turned yourself into a really fast (although thin) Logi, that is an asset to your team.

Using an SMG over an AR with this fit gives you several advantages.

-In CQ, if you are smart, you are going to win vs an AR in the majority of suits in that people are running around. This isn't how good 'you' are, this is Math.
-Faster reload than an AR
-With no AR, you typically won't put yourself in a position of hitting someone from range which often exposes you.
-You don't have the range limit of a Shotgun.

There will always be exceptions and fittings that can counter. But rare so far are the Type II's and B's that are so shield heavy that a well skilled SMG can't drain them. This is probably due to the Blueprint type 1's and the AUR A's that has most players armor heavy and slow at the moment. And the rules may change once people catch on to the fact That skilled FPSers in Shield suits are owning them and people actually start spending ISK on their suits.

The SMG kills fast and has, imo, the best ADS in the game. I wasn't a believer either until I took Ign's advice, actually skilled it, and used something other than the Toxin.

If you don't like it, or don't believe it, don't try it. But fact of the matter is there is a viable place for this build on the battle field and I love being in a squad with that build in the right hands.

This.

I actually ran a similiar support fit but it was an AV. The "main weapon" was the Swarm Launcher in the light slot while the "sidearm" was the SMG. In actuality, it was the SMG that was the main weapon and the Swarm Launchers that was a sidearm. Not only was I able to quickly take out vehicles, I could also take down oncoming enemies or enemies who were able to survive the wreckage. I also carried "trip wire" detonators which I used to prepare a safety line for my team at a point.

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ImperfectFan514 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 51	Posted - 2013.02.16 04:28:00 - [31] - Quote SMG's used to be just as good if not better than AR's then CCP decided to nerf them.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.16 11:25:00 - [32] - Quote Quote: It is painfully obvious that you have never used a desently skilled SMG. Or well fitted scout. I'm sporting a 2.04 KDR with 3187 kills and 1566 deaths at the moment and it continues to rise every day. It is nothing big to brag about but I am also in the sh!t 100% of the time. You play the game your way and I'll play it mine.Twisted I don't need to skill into SMG to make it work, my KDR is 4.85 with 6692 kills & 1373 deaths, without a team, no support flying solo with Assault & AR/SMG at the frontlines, my funnest moments are breaking teams solo and my best game so far is 51/0 on skirmish and 44/0 on ambush while taking every risk possible to get more kills. And yeah i know you play it your way, but if we have 16 guys on our team doing it your way, its gonna be a horrible lost game but i guess your on the mindset of "the other guy" will do it properly.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.16 13:19:00 - [33] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: It is painfully obvious that you have never used a desently skilled SMG. Or well fitted scout. I'm sporting a 2.04 KDR with 3187 kills and 1566 deaths at the moment and it continues to rise every day. It is nothing big to brag about but I am also in the sh!t 100% of the time. You play the game your way and I'll play it mine.Twisted . And yeah i know you play it your way, but if we have 16 guys on our team doing it your way, its gonna be a horrible lost game but i guess your on the mindset of "the other guy" will do it properly. You have no concept of team mechanics do you. How about this: we could squad up and you can find out exactly how useless I am. Just let me know and I'll shoot you a message in game.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.16 15:06:00 - [34] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: It is painfully obvious that you have never used a desently skilled SMG. Or well fitted scout. I'm sporting a 2.04 KDR with 3187 kills and 1566 deaths at the moment and it continues to rise every day. It is nothing big to brag about but I am also in the sh!t 100% of the time. You play the game your way and I'll play it mine.Twisted . And yeah i know you play it your way, but if we have 16 guys on our team doing it your way, its gonna be a horrible lost game but i guess your on the mindset of "the other guy" will do it properly. You have no concept of team mechanics do you. How about this: we could squad up and you can find out exactly how useless I am. Just let me know and I'll shoot you a message in game. It depends really on the team in question. If its a good team, everything runs smooth and everyone does their part, if its a bad team, you are trusting them blindly to be there when you need em or to take out for say a sniper, if they can't do that, it means theres a hole in your teamwork and someone else needs to cover up that hole. Dragging down the team because you think it was cool to carry an SMG over say an AR witch is better at anything the SMG can do. Like they say, a chain is only as strong as it weakest link. I played APB R only with a dedicated team of RL friends, 2 of them i would call aim impaired, they know it, we know it, we joke about it but they keep dying and it reflects on the missions won at the end of the day. Same team in War Z, except there 4 of my friends started hacking because they couldn't take getting killed too much. You cannot pretend that teamwork trumps everything and anything if the team itself is flawed from the core, in my group of RL friends that play games, there are only 2 good ones, 1 average and 5 really bad FPS players in it. Yeah about teaming up, let me know when you use a proper Main weapon instead of a water gun. (Don't get me wrong if its to save PG or CPU to carry other stuff needed for your playstyle, by all means, use it, but if its to be diffrent or cool) don't
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.16 15:53:00 - [35] - Quote Just got through with a match went 15 and 3 in my logi scout with 1600 WP, victory, number one on the leader board on my team. I consistently place in the top four. I would say that I am doing quite alright. I also have a A series laser rifle assault fit that I am quite fond of, but I perfer the logi scout roll. Rei Shepard wrote: Yeah about teaming up, let me know when you use a proper Main weapon instead of a water gun. Dude, you don't have to make up excuses, just tell the truth, which I am sure would probably go something like: "Na, dude im to afraid you'll prove me wrong."
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 16:17:00 - [36] - Quote You don't make sense. Let me address my actual annoyances here before I get into the meat of it: We're not toting the SMGs to be cool. Who in their right mind would do that? We love what we can do with the SMG and Scout suit. It actually does help out the whole team even if the SMG isn't as powerful or accurate as the AR. For example, running for points at the beginning of the game. Point hacked, first wave come and I rip em to shreds with a combine use of speed and heavy SMG fire. Second example, rolling with my squad as we cap points. I go ahead of them and scout the area like an actual scout and rip on those who spot me or those who aren't paying attention. Third example, I play guard on a point in a industrial complex. My speed allows me to quickly traverse around, my agility allows me to get to where others couldn't. My SMG? It allows for extreme bursts in a short amount of time so that I can use my knowledge of the surrounding to overtake the enemy. Now to the meat. It's illogical to say that us using a SMG is bringing our team down BECAUSE others are actually weak. It's like saying you using an assault rifle is bringing the team down because you aren't doing supportive sniping when it's needed or because right now heavy suppressive fire is needed and you're just lollygagging with your AR or because some logistics is needed and you're just focused on your K/D with an AR. Not only that but you can only do so much for your team unless you're in a squad with friends/corpmates. Everyone has to adjust. EVERYONE. If you're still sniping when everyone retreated into an urban complex with so much cover that you're getting no headshots, then you need to switch up. If you're assaulting with an AR and you're under constant fire by laser rifles in a closed off area with only one entrance, you need to switch up. If you're running around with a SMG when they're heavies everywhere in a rather clear terrain then you to switch up. I don't believe most people put their eggs in the same basket. I don't. I have a SMGer fit, a Uplink Runner fit, two assaulter fits, a sniper fit, a logistics fit, and a AV fit. I tend to use the SMGer and assaulters the most because I'm more inclined to frontline because I have to make up for others. Yes. The SMGer does make up for the weaknesses shown in the frontline rush. Shrugs And when I feel that everyone is rushing and it's redundant to run assault, I'll go into AV or sniper, or I'll use my SMGer(it's a multi-purpose assault scout if we're going to be frank) to run around and take down snipers, Red AVs, and any other infantry unit that would be weak against CQC. Why just those that are weak to CQC? Because everyone else is running assault and are taking on the enemy who is most likely a majority of assaulters. It's a suppo
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.16 16:43:00 - [37] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: Just got through with a match went 15 and 3 in my logi scout with 1600 WP, victory, number one on the leader board on my team. I consistently place in the top four. I would say that I am doing quite alright. I also have a A series laser rifle assault fit that I am quite fond of, but I perfer the logi scout roll. Rei Shepard wrote: Yeah about teaming up, let me know when you use a proper Main weapon instead of a water gun. Dude, you don't have to make up excuses, just tell the truth, which I am sure would probably go something like: "Na, dude im to afraid you'll prove me wrong." I don't really need to prove anything to you, you have your take on how to do thing, i got my take and speak my mind, don't like it, don't post, ill group with you for giggles don't worry. Quote: Let me address my actual annoyances here before I get into the meat of it: I did say i like the SMG, but liking it does not make it a primary weapon, whatever the SMG does, the AR does better and i know i switch up aswell, need a heavy forge AV, sure, need a sniper. Anyways the point of the matter seems to have diluted.
ratamaq doc 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.02.16 18:27:00 - [38] - Quote I think the point that is missed here is the Type II 'Logi Scout' fit, which only has 1 weapon slot. It sacrifices the side arm for another equipment slot. Then equipping and injector and rep gun, you've just turned yourself into a really fast (although thin) Logi, that is an asset to your team. Using an SMG over an AR with this fit gives you several advantages. -In CQ, if you are smart, you are going to win vs an AR in the majority of suits in that people are running around. This isn't how good 'you' are, this is Math. -Faster reload than an AR -With no AR, you typically won't put yourself in a position of hitting someone from range which often exposes you. -You don't have the range limit of a Shotgun. There will always be exceptions and fittings that can counter. But rare so far are the Type II's and B's that are so shield heavy that a well skilled SMG can't drain them. This is probably due to the Blueprint type 1's and the AUR A's that has most players armor heavy and slow at the moment. And the rules may change once people catch on to the fact That skilled FPSers in Shield suits are owning them and people actually start spending ISK on their suits. The SMG kills fast and has, imo, the best ADS in the game. I wasn't a believer either until I took Ign's advice, actually skilled it, and used something other than the Toxin. If you don't like it, or don't believe it, don't try it. But fact of the matter is there is a viable place for this build on the battle field and I love being in a squad with that build in the right hands.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2013.02.16 20:23:00 - [39] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point that is missed here is the Type II 'Logi Scout' fit, which only has 1 weapon slot. It sacrifices the side arm for another equipment slot. Then equipping and injector and rep gun, you've just turned yourself into a really fast (although thin) Logi, that is an asset to your team. Using an SMG over an AR with this fit gives you several advantages. -In CQ, if you are smart, you are going to win vs an AR in the majority of suits in that people are running around. This isn't how good 'you' are, this is Math. -Faster reload than an AR -With no AR, you typically won't put yourself in a position of hitting someone from range which often exposes you. -You don't have the range limit of a Shotgun. There will always be exceptions and fittings that can counter. But rare so far are the Type II's and B's that are so shield heavy that a well skilled SMG can't drain them. This is probably due to the Blueprint type 1's and the AUR A's that has most players armor heavy and slow at the moment. And the rules may change once people catch on to the fact That skilled FPSers in Shield suits are owning them and people actually start spending ISK on their suits. The SMG kills fast and has, imo, the best ADS in the game. I wasn't a believer either until I took Ign's advice, actually skilled it, and used something other than the Toxin. If you don't like it, or don't believe it, don't try it. But fact of the matter is there is a viable place for this build on the battle field and I love being in a squad with that build in the right hands. This. I actually ran a similiar support fit but it was an AV. The "main weapon" was the Swarm Launcher in the light slot while the "sidearm" was the SMG. In actuality, it was the SMG that was the main weapon and the Swarm Launchers that was a sidearm. Not only was I able to quickly take out vehicles, I could also take down oncoming enemies or enemies who were able to survive the wreckage. I also carried "trip wire" detonators which I used to prepare a safety line for my team at a point.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.16 21:31:00 - [40] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: i run smg scout high five With skills it's not bad. Think about it, you can equip two of them, no need to reload, R2. If you take the time to put skills into them and get the prototype ones they are actully quite good. They do more damage to Armor than ARs at that level. But you need to be closer range than an AR, like half the range, but range upgrades can help if you really put a lot of points into it and get at least level 3 of the 2nd range skill, you will have a powerful weapon. Running Heavy double SMG baby , all night long. \o/

crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.16 21:33:00 - [41] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point that is missed here is the Type II 'Logi Scout' fit, which only has 1 weapon slot. It sacrifices the side arm for another equipment slot. Then equipping and injector and rep gun, you've just turned yourself into a really fast (although thin) Logi, that is an asset to your team. Using an SMG over an AR with this fit gives you several advantages. -In CQ, if you are smart, you are going to win vs an AR in the majority of suits in that people are running around. This isn't how good 'you' are, this is Math. -Faster reload than an AR -With no AR, you typically won't put yourself in a position of hitting someone from range which often exposes you. -You don't have the range limit of a Shotgun. There will always be exceptions and fittings that can counter. But rare so far are the Type II's and B's that are so shield heavy that a well skilled SMG can't drain them. This is probably due to the Blueprint type 1's and the AUR A's that has most players armor heavy and slow at the moment. And the rules may change once people catch on to the fact That skilled FPSers in Shield suits are owning them and people actually start spending ISK on their suits. The SMG kills fast and has, imo, the best ADS in the game. I wasn't a believer either until I took Ign's advice, actually skilled it, and used something other than the Toxin. If you don't like it, or don't believe it, don't try it. But fact of the matter is there is a viable place for this build on the battle field and I love being in a squad with that build in the right hands. This. I actually ran a similiar support fit but it was an AV. The "main weapon" was the Swarm Launcher in the light slot while the "sidearm" was the SMG. In actuality, it was the SMG that was the main weapon and the Swarm Launchers that was a sidearm. Not only was I able to quickly take out vehicles, I could also take down oncoming enemies or enemies who were able to survive the wreckage. I also carried "trip wire" detonators which I used to prepare a safety line for my team at a point. I love it, I love you! Kick ass build. I love using remote mines, and running it with a swarm launcher but treating it like a side arm is brillanrant. My hat off to you sir. I'm goingt to have to run that build :P
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 428	Posted - 2013.02.16 21:35:00 - [42] - Quote Why so few Scrambler Pistol Scouts?
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 181	Posted - 2013.03.25 14:46:00 - [43] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Why so few Scrambler Pistol Scouts? This. I'm going to start playing more with them after I spec into my scout more. >.> Believe you can do some serious damage with an advanced pistol and good aim and speed. The fact that you'll be using a pistol instead of something that requires more power also mean you'll have more space for higher-end modules on your fitting :3. Complex Sidearms, shield regulator, and speed modules. Catches a nosebleed
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 7	Posted - 2013.03.27 17:15:00 - [44] - Quote I have a pistol scout as an alternate and it's quite a bit of fun. However, for a newb such as myself, running a relatively low SP character (<1M SP) it's a bit frustrating without adequate profile dampening or shields yet. Closing the distance to get attacks in can be a major challenge, however I'm sure it's easier than w/ a shotgun scout build since you don't need to get as close. Getting instant kills w/ headshots on lighter armored characters is very nice (typically w/ the breach pistols), however aiming is key. And it does leave a good deal of CPU/PG for other suit items.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2165	Posted - 2013.03.27 17:54:00 - [45] - Quote When I'm running Shotgun Scout, I usually have my SMG as a backup, and I use it pretty often. Not quite every match where I'm playing Scout, but not far short of it either.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 197	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:54:00 - [46] - Quote Upon the new build, more SMG scouts will come out the dark. This thread will mark my hipster-ness. I was a SMGer before new modules came in.


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