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IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:14:00 - [1] - Quote I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:16:00 - [2] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP If you had no shields you would of been dead for sure. SMG's just aren't any good against shields :(
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:17:00 - [3] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP If you had no shields you would of been dead for sure. SMG's just aren't any good against shields :( Does this mean there are weapons that are more effective against shields and armor respectively? Where can I find this information?
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:17:00 - [4] - Quote Projectile weapons like the SMG and HMG have a damage penalty to shields and a damage bonus to armor, it makes engaging with them a little tricky.
Rhuvian Marccus Deep Space Republic 25	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:27:00 - [5] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP I'm going to find it interesting what they do with those. I use them both as a side weapon on my main, and the main on my side () and I usually find them effective enough in both situations. ("Side" character is wifes Logi, but I can top the kill boards with her SMG). In either case there is definately a perception of them being weak. I wonder how much of this is perception/community driven, and how much is accurate.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:30:00 - [6] - Quote They're my main weapon these days. With sidearm sharpshooter and the weapon skill both into proficiency, I can go toe to toe with GEKs at up to midrange. Plus, I get to carry a cheap sniper or laser for long range backup if I get caught out in the open or too far from the action. Just don't expect to do diddly squat against Type-II HMG Heavies, or diddly squat to anyone if you don't have the passive skills.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:35:00 - [7] - Quote The trade off is that SMGs have extremely low CPU/PG requirements and only take up a sidearm slot. There's no need to buff them, because they are a low powered, low cost weapon. If you want more damage, use a bigger gun. The two alternatives are basically: Make them closer to an AR in damage without increasing CPU/PG, at which point... why use the AR? OR Make them closer to an AR in damage and increase their CPU/PG, at which point... why use the SMG?
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:36:00 - [8] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: They're my main weapon these days. With sidearm sharpshooter and the weapon skill both into proficiency, I can go toe to toe with GEKs at up to midrange. Plus, I get to carry a cheap sniper or laser for long range backup if I get caught out in the open or too far from the action. Just don't expect to do diddly squat against Type-II HMG Heavies, or diddly squat to anyone if you don't have the passive skills. That's pretty impressive, maybe it's one of those weapons that only shows it's true prowess after you've taken the time to skill in them. But when you have every other weapon aside form sniper rifles being very easy to use and effective from the get go, it really makes SMG's get looked over and underutilized. Also you bring up another flaw of SMG's, the terrible range
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:36:00 - [9] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: The trade off is that SMGs have extremely low CPU/PG requirements and only take up a sidearm slot. There's no need to buff them, because they are a low powered, low cost weapon. If you want more damage, use a bigger gun. This actually makes a lot of sense. Good answer!
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:41:00 - [10] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: Baal Roo wrote: The trade off is that SMGs have extremely low CPU/PG requirements and only take up a sidearm slot. There's no need to buff them, because they are a low powered, low cost weapon. If you want more damage, use a bigger gun. This actually makes a lot of sense. Good answer! Thanks. This is actually the reason most of the vets get so irritated with all the "nerf this, buff that" threads. Yes, the HMG is ridiculously powerful. If you want that power, use it. Yes the Laser Rifle is crazy good at range. If you want to be crazy good at range, use it. Yes the Mass Driver can do damage around corners and over walls. If you want to do damage around corners and over walls... I think you see where this is going. Everything doesn't have to be "equal" in this game. The balance comes from how these weapons and classes fit together as a squad. Remember, this is a squad based shooter. I know logis who love to use that little SMG, because it's so cheap. This allows them to fit better logi gear to keep their squadmates alive, but still gives them an emergency weapon when needed. You can't just look at a piece of gear and compare it to other gear that can fit in the same slot as if that gear and those slots exist in a vacuum. You have to think about them in context of their CPU/PG, their ISK cost, their skill requirements, how they fit with the rest of a dropsuit, and what role the weapon performs in a group of 3 (soon to be 5) other players.

Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 37	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:41:00 - [11] - Quote Only thing about SMG that matter: GIVE US A PROPER SIGHT. Not that glass rectangle that looks like if robo cop took a dump and wiped his rear with it. A PROPER IRON SIGHT... or a scope, that works too. Thank you.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.02.13 22:10:00 - [12] - Quote As a logi i hate the fact i invested into SMG ops to lvl4 they arent truly effective till maybe proficiency lvl and in sight of that iv up my shotgun ops for the time being where i can 1-2 shot most milita gear in close range. SMG dont need a buff, they just suck for anyone not willing to invest into them completely, there are better options than the SMG at CQC that do WAY better fresh at the start.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.02.13 22:45:00 - [13] - Quote Rupture Reaperson wrote: Only thing about SMG that matter: GIVE US A PROPER SIGHT. Not that glass rectangle that looks like if robo cop took a dump and wiped his rear with it. A PROPER IRON SIGHT... or a scope, that works too. Thank you. Absolutely not. The SMG has the coolest ADS sight in the game. A scope would be useless since the range is so short, and all the iron sights in Dust stink right now (Especially scrambler pistols). Not to mention that the red dot is essential for determining whether your target is in range or not. Iron sights would be a huge nerf.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.02.13 22:47:00 - [14] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: As a logi i hate the fact i invested into SMG ops to lvl4 they arent truly effective till maybe proficiency lvl and in sight of that iv up my shotgun ops for the time being where i can 1-2 shot most milita gear in close range. SMG dont need a buff, they just suck for anyone not willing to invest into them completely, there are better options than the SMG at CQC that do WAY better fresh at the start. That's a bummer. They really are all-or-nothing for Logi use, since you can't pair 'em with a light weapon.
Rhuvian Marccus Deep Space Republic 25	Posted - 2013.02.13 23:38:00 - [15] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: As a logi i hate the fact i invested into SMG ops to lvl4 they arent truly effective till maybe proficiency lvl and in sight of that iv up my shotgun ops for the time being where i can 1-2 shot most milita gear in close range. SMG dont need a buff, they just suck for anyone not willing to invest into them completely, there are better options than the SMG at CQC that do WAY better fresh at the start. Yeah I don't know - maybe they just aren't for your play style? Different strokes for different folks, and finding the right equipment for each person changes the game completely for them quite often. Like I said earlier, with almost nothing put into SMG skills in any way, and only basic shield/armor mods on the Logi-Sis (though perhaps that is making a bigger difference than I realise) I can get 14 + kills with the SMG alone. The real trick is to be damned close and keep a constant bead on the head or upper chest. With an SMG's ROF each bullet adds up pretty fast that I've seen. Pretty regularly kill heavies with the thing even.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:09:00 - [16] - Quote Hum, this thread is strange to me. Aside from the laser rifle, in certain situations, all I use is the SMG, in fact, I'm not even skilled into any other weapon. To me all the other weapons in this game are absolute garbage. I regularly do twenty + with the SMG. Shrugs SMGs do need a fix however: If you do the math for dps you will find that the breach is ridiculously under powered and that the assault variant out performs the next higher tier standard SMG for each tier (e.g. "assault" out performs the "M512"; "M209" out performs the "Six Kin"). facepalm someone seriously failed at the math on this one. The standard and breach variants are in serious need of a buff (the breach far more so however, in my opinion, it is completely worthless at the moment).
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:13:00 - [17] - Quote The only things an SMG would need are a red dot laser, and a silencer.
Leovarian L Lavitz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 278	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:16:00 - [18] - Quote Flux grenades fix the weakness against shields, I'm told
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:17:00 - [19] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: The only things an SMG would need are a red dot laser, and a silencer. Oooooo, sexy Especially considering that I am speced into scouts. I would be such a ninja with this. The laser would have to work with hip fire though and be a visible beam, and be able to be switched on and off. This would be amazing.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:31:00 - [20] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: The only things an SMG would need are a red dot laser, and a silencer. Wouldn't silencers be useless in a game like this though?

Vaerana Myshtana ScIdama Endless Renaissance 202	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:36:00 - [21] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Make them closer to an AR in damage without increasing CPU/PG, at which point... why use the AR? SMG range is total carp. That's why you use an AR. It would be nice if they were slightly more effective given their abysmal range.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:36:00 - [22] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: The only things an SMG would need are a red dot laser, and a silencer. Wouldn't silencers be useless in a game like this though? Hell no. I could take out a whole squad of reds and no one would ever know I was there.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:37:00 - [23] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: The only things an SMG would need are a red dot laser, and a silencer. Wouldn't silencers be useless in a game like this though? Hell no. I could take out a whole squad of reds and no one would ever know I was there. oh really?
Thumb Green Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:37:00 - [24] - Quote I use the SMG as my assaults sidearm instead of the scrambler. That way when my rifle needs reloading but the guy in front of me needs a few more bullets in him; I can just switch and finish the job without dieing. The scrambler kills them off faster if I manage to hit them but it needs reloading quicker than the SMG; which tends to mean I end up dead. Every tool has a proper method of use; so the only thing I can imagine is the people using it against you are using it wrong.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:41:00 - [25] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Make them closer to an AR in damage without increasing CPU/PG, at which point... why use the AR? SMG range is total carp. That's why you use an AR. It would be nice if they were slightly more effective given their abysmal range. Ya they just should have never been nerfed during the last omni-nerf CCP did.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:49:00 - [26] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: The only things an SMG would need are a red dot laser, and a silencer. Wouldn't silencers be useless in a game like this though? Hell no. I could take out a whole squad of reds and no one would ever know I was there. oh really? It sure would be fun to test.
Vaerana Myshtana ScIdama Endless Renaissance 202	Posted - 2013.02.14 01:49:00 - [27] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Make them closer to an AR in damage without increasing CPU/PG, at which point... why use the AR? SMG range is total carp. That's why you use an AR. It would be nice if they were slightly more effective given their abysmal range. Ya they just should have never been nerfed during the last omni-nerf CCP did. I'm not sure they shouldn't have been nerfed, but maybe a slight unnerfing? To my mind, it's not the range or damage that should be nerfed, it's the accuracy. SMGs have very short barrels, high RoF, and lower bullet velocities, meaning that they should recoil and scatter like a motherkitten. Each bullet should still have a good punch and be effective out to about 100m, but you probably wouldn't get more than one hit unless the target is close.
Indianna Pwns The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 9	Posted - 2013.02.14 02:04:00 - [28] - Quote I dont have a problem with the range on SMG's, I do feel that within that short range they should be better. Currently they are good when an enemy is within a couple of meters, however once outside of this they get steadily worse out to their max range (at which point the damage it does is laughable). Also the ADS speed seems very sluggish, which means I am forced to hipfire it almost exclusively. As a logi I feel its always better to take an assult rifle over an SMG as the advantage in the short range i would gain from the SMG is not enough to compensate for its lack of range and stopping power at 10+ meters. Basically the AR outperforms it at all but the very closest ranges, whereas i feel the SMG should destroy the AR at close range and more gradually start to be outperformed as engagements move into the midrange.
Thumb Green Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2013.02.14 02:05:00 - [29] - Quote Accidentally posted this one in the wrong thread
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 441	Posted - 2013.02.14 02:13:00 - [30] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP My burst Sub machine chews threw ppl idk why, used to find it more crap then a normal one, but get all your shots off, i like it.

James Thraxton The Exemplars 73	Posted - 2013.02.14 02:24:00 - [31] - Quote the only thing i find issue with is perhaps all of the half rpm, +1.25 dpr smg's (like the breach) require their dpr to be increased to 1.33, currently they're just non-effective compared to the 1000+ rpm models (never lost a fight vs them, can barely win a fight with them)
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.02.14 03:22:00 - [32] - Quote meh... the default range IS pretty laughable now, but remember; it doesn't need to beat an AR. it just has to beat a scrambler pistol to justify it's existence.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.02.14 03:37:00 - [33] - Quote Rhuvian Marccus wrote: Johnny Guilt wrote: As a logi i hate the fact i invested into SMG ops to lvl4 they arent truly effective till maybe proficiency lvl and in sight of that iv up my shotgun ops for the time being where i can 1-2 shot most milita gear in close range. SMG dont need a buff, they just suck for anyone not willing to invest into them completely, there are better options than the SMG at CQC that do WAY better fresh at the start. Yeah I don't know - maybe they just aren't for your play style? Different strokes for different folks, and finding the right equipment for each person changes the game completely for them quite often. Like I said earlier, with almost nothing put into SMG skills in any way, and only basic shield/armor mods on the Logi-Sis (though perhaps that is making a bigger difference than I realise) I can get 14 + kills with the SMG alone. The real trick is to be damned close and keep a constant bead on the head or upper chest. With an SMG's ROF each bullet adds up pretty fast that I've seen. Pretty regularly kill heavies with the thing even. Nothing to do with play style, just effectiveness compared to other gear that i could have speced into that would outclass SMGs easily in CQC(such as ARs and shotguns) i usually found myself in those surprise "oh sht" moments when i walk around a coner and a AR user is dead infront of me no warning, most of the time he ADS, i hip fire but i die quickly being a logi,i cant even break his shields completely to get to his amor for the REAL damage with a advance SMG.Now i use the shotgun in same situation , spook myself and blow his torso off his legs. Jotun Hiem wrote:* Projectile weapons like the SMG and HMG have a damage penalty to shields and a damage bonus to armor, it makes engaging with them a little tricky. Can someone elaborate on this? With weapons are good on shields/armor? there a thread on this already?
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.02.14 03:48:00 - [34] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP If you had no shields you would of been dead for sure. SMG's just aren't any good against shields :( Yea, The SMG's we have now rip through armor. The Caldari SMG's that we'll be getting soon will probably be more shield effective.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:01:00 - [35] - Quote As a logi I used the SMG quite a bit in the Artificer Starter Fit before finally trying other stuff. However affter toying around with all the other weapons I decided to invest more in the SMG. Yes the range is pretty low but I never need to shoot anyone from such a range since I'm usually always near a heavy teammate and 90% of all my encounters are close range. When I get in this effective range I also beat out GEK's and other AR's all the time because of the higher rate of fire and relative ease of hip firing. The fact that it's a side arm is wonderful. Actually I'm considering working towards getting an Assault proto suit since it carries two equipment slots plus a sidearm slot that the logi suit doesn't get. So I can keep my SMG and use the Light Weapon slot for some higher end swarm launchers, essentially making the swarm launcher the third equipment slot if I were using my logi suit.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:02:00 - [36] - Quote they have the highest DPS in the game so no buff required i use it as my only weapon type 2 scout 452 HP no dmg mods assault smg (std) i can get upto 20 / 0
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:19:00 - [37] - Quote I find the SMG's place right now is just about right, works quite well as a stand-alone in the right hands, and is an amazing backup weapon for most classes. The SMG for me is "My Gek's magazine just ran dry, I can't reload fast enough and the dude shooting at me is almost dead" gun.
zeek1227 zeek1227 Blitzkrieg Co. 144	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:30:00 - [38] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP Omg this just blew my mind finnaly some one not whining that they were killed but actually reccognized a problem even when he came out ontop +1
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 57	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:59:00 - [39] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP Smg is good against scout
Smoky Fingers THE DOLLARS 1	Posted - 2013.02.14 05:19:00 - [40] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: I find the SMG's place right now is just about right, works quite well as a stand-alone in the right hands, and is an amazing backup weapon for most classes. The SMG for me is "My Gek's magazine just ran dry, I can't reload fast enough and the dude shooting at me is almost dead" gun. Agreed. As a snipe scout i find the smg to be quite effective at extremely close range (0-7m) against AR's due to the fact that most AR users usually panic and waste their clips in 2 seconds . The breach variant works particularly well in this situation due to its slow RoF and damage comparable damage to a militia AR. Maybe about three out of four times i find myself on the winning end simply because i can hold continuous fire from a single breach magazine 6 seconds longer than what the opposition could do with an AR and scrambler clip combined.

Imp Smash On The Brink 51	Posted - 2013.02.14 06:15:00 - [41] - Quote Smgs stay accurate (in fact I think bullet spread decreases a tad maybe) as they are fired. I took a heavy head to head in an assault type 2 yesterday with the Toxin (barely). I lost to a miltia suit 5 min later as i missed my headshots and he didnt. Honestly I think Smgs are probably balanced pretty well for how good they are up close and how horrible they are (or completely ineffective) at med-short range.
Scalesdini Universal Allies Inc. 58	Posted - 2013.02.14 06:41:00 - [42] - Quote SMG's don't need buffed, the baddies using them do. My Toxin routinely slaughters people. Several per clip sometimes.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.02.14 09:13:00 - [43] - Quote the facts because some people like to spread misinformation: -SMG has to compete with the scrambler pistol not with the AR, but the scrambler pistol is actually far superior as sidearm (fun note: the scrambler pistol gets huge headshot bonus damage because it scramble neurons, but well the SMG fires small explosive rounds, because exploding the face is less devasting than scramble neurons ) -SMG clip is not huge, the SMG fires as long as the AR before it runs out -SMG clip is not huge, it deals less damage per reload than AR -SMG reload time is not superior, it reloads as fast as the AR -SMG is not accurate, it misses alot outside 10 meters when you fire constantly -SMG does not deal more dps than AR, SMG deals 30% less -SMG optimal range gets up to 20meters with skills, but good luck hitting someone with it enough to kill someone due to the accuracy. -due to the falloff mechanic and accuracy of some shotguns, the shotgun can still two shot SMG users at 20m which is the SMGs optimal range with sharpshooter skill -the breach SMG is totally useless, it has 1 meter less range and 30% less dps over the regular one and it gets a MINOR accuracy boost for the drawbacks -the SMG sights are totally useless because they reduce the turning speed significantly oh and before someone tries to make made up "points" again: -I have SMG prof. at lvl 5 -I have sidearm sharpshooter at lvl 5 -I have done about 500 kills and a positive KDR while running SMG only in a militia logi suit so I know well how this weapon works -the SMG is pointless on a logi suit once you upgrade from militia logi suit to the standard one or stop using militia items. logi suits have huge fittings and with some sp in fitting skills it is well possible to carry a mass driver or AR with all the other stuff. you can also use some 0 PG items, or skip grenades before you have enough fitting skills and still carry an AR and mass driver. -on my assault suit the SMG is pointless as sidearmor too because fitting is not an issue again and I just fit the superior scrambler sidearm -the only suit that might benefit from the SMG is the scout, especially scout type 2 with two equipment slots because the scout has low PG/CPU.
GOLIATH STB SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 0	Posted - 2013.02.14 09:56:00 - [44] - Quote So ive got a bit of experiance with the SMG class, I found a full glass cannon build is the best route to go. 1 Dragonweave Scout suit 1 'Toxin' (X2 for both slots) 1 Kinetic/Stamina Module 1 Sensor Dampener 1 Side arm damage mod All millitia. The trick with this fit is to get round the back of people and just unload, if you run out of ammo you can just switch weapons, plus the ammo for both weapons is SEPERATE so in theory it gives you twice the amount of ammo. Ive Got Sub machine gun operation II Sharpshooter II rapid reload I. I was pulling 25-10 pretty easily, the fact you die alot is negated by the fact the suit is almost completely free to run... This plus the fact you can do this with the basic skills, and its great fun. Granted you need pretty decent map knowledge to get around the back of people but the extra speed and stealth help ALOT. If you get caught in the open then you have to zig-zag away, you get 1 shot by snipers if they can hit you, the trick is to not stop moving.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.14 10:09:00 - [45] - Quote Well guess I'm using a pointless weapon but I still love using my SMG on my Logi suit. Numbers aside, SMG just "feels" better close range than an assault rifle. I tried running an AR Logi and I was never in the right situations to really use it more effectively than I could a SMG. In my opinion part of what makes the SMG better close range is the high rate of fire. Sure it may not do better DPS than an AR, but if you start firing and you're off target you can quickly readjust with bullets immediately starting to hit, but with an AR if you start slightly off target you have to wait awhile for the next bullet to fire. And of course the SMG isn't competing with the AR, it's competing with the Scrambler Pistol. The pistol is far better at a range, but if you chose SMG you aren't about range. I always here people saying the accuracy is terrible once you start getting a little distance, but honestly if you use the SMG you shouldn't shoot anything that you can't hit while hip firing. If someone is gunning at me from out of my range I'll simply play the "line of sight" game and advance my way to get in his face. Oh, and I avoid open spaces like the plague. Manage to do very well.


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