DUST Search - Submachine Guns

IRuby Heart wrote:

I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun Cool

^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP Roll

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James Thraxton The Exemplars 73	Posted - 2013.02.14 02:24:00 - [31] - Quote the only thing i find issue with is perhaps all of the half rpm, +1.25 dpr smg's (like the breach) require their dpr to be increased to 1.33, currently they're just non-effective compared to the 1000+ rpm models (never lost a fight vs them, can barely win a fight with them)
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.02.14 03:22:00 - [32] - Quote meh... the default range IS pretty laughable now, but remember; it doesn't need to beat an AR. it just has to beat a scrambler pistol to justify it's existence.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.02.14 03:37:00 - [33] - Quote Rhuvian Marccus wrote: Johnny Guilt wrote: As a logi i hate the fact i invested into SMG ops to lvl4 they arent truly effective till maybe proficiency lvl and in sight of that iv up my shotgun ops for the time being where i can 1-2 shot most milita gear in close range. SMG dont need a buff, they just suck for anyone not willing to invest into them completely, there are better options than the SMG at CQC that do WAY better fresh at the start. Yeah I don't know - maybe they just aren't for your play style? Different strokes for different folks, and finding the right equipment for each person changes the game completely for them quite often. Like I said earlier, with almost nothing put into SMG skills in any way, and only basic shield/armor mods on the Logi-Sis (though perhaps that is making a bigger difference than I realise) I can get 14 + kills with the SMG alone. The real trick is to be damned close and keep a constant bead on the head or upper chest. With an SMG's ROF each bullet adds up pretty fast that I've seen. Pretty regularly kill heavies with the thing even. Nothing to do with play style, just effectiveness compared to other gear that i could have speced into that would outclass SMGs easily in CQC(such as ARs and shotguns) i usually found myself in those surprise "oh sht" moments when i walk around a coner and a AR user is dead infront of me no warning, most of the time he ADS, i hip fire but i die quickly being a logi,i cant even break his shields completely to get to his amor for the REAL damage with a advance SMG.Now i use the shotgun in same situation , spook myself and blow his torso off his legs. Jotun Hiem wrote:* Projectile weapons like the SMG and HMG have a damage penalty to shields and a damage bonus to armor, it makes engaging with them a little tricky. Can someone elaborate on this? With weapons are good on shields/armor? there a thread on this already?
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.02.14 03:48:00 - [34] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP If you had no shields you would of been dead for sure. SMG's just aren't any good against shields :( Yea, The SMG's we have now rip through armor. The Caldari SMG's that we'll be getting soon will probably be more shield effective.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:01:00 - [35] - Quote As a logi I used the SMG quite a bit in the Artificer Starter Fit before finally trying other stuff. However affter toying around with all the other weapons I decided to invest more in the SMG. Yes the range is pretty low but I never need to shoot anyone from such a range since I'm usually always near a heavy teammate and 90% of all my encounters are close range. When I get in this effective range I also beat out GEK's and other AR's all the time because of the higher rate of fire and relative ease of hip firing. The fact that it's a side arm is wonderful. Actually I'm considering working towards getting an Assault proto suit since it carries two equipment slots plus a sidearm slot that the logi suit doesn't get. So I can keep my SMG and use the Light Weapon slot for some higher end swarm launchers, essentially making the swarm launcher the third equipment slot if I were using my logi suit.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:02:00 - [36] - Quote they have the highest DPS in the game so no buff required i use it as my only weapon type 2 scout 452 HP no dmg mods assault smg (std) i can get upto 20 / 0
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:19:00 - [37] - Quote I find the SMG's place right now is just about right, works quite well as a stand-alone in the right hands, and is an amazing backup weapon for most classes. The SMG for me is "My Gek's magazine just ran dry, I can't reload fast enough and the dude shooting at me is almost dead" gun.
zeek1227 zeek1227 Blitzkrieg Co. 144	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:30:00 - [38] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP Omg this just blew my mind finnaly some one not whining that they were killed but actually reccognized a problem even when he came out ontop +1
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 57	Posted - 2013.02.14 04:59:00 - [39] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: I think they're in need of a slight buff, I understand they have a huge clip and high rof but the damage is laughable. Just now got done with a game where two guys using Submachine guns jumped me from behind and started spraying my back with lead(No, Plasma?). I casually turned around and killed the first guy closest to me, reloaded, and proceeded to kill the 2nd guy. Like the beast that I am, I put on my shades, called in my LAV and drove off into the setting sun ^True story, I was using a raven suit with only a basic shield extender and they just barely got to my armor, this is a usual and quite common occurence for me. Anyone who is using a Submachine gun against me is guaranteed to get killed and I'm not even good. Personally I have the Toxin submachine gun from the mercenary pack and it's really subpar. While I don't have any skills invested in the SMG's, I find that using a scrambler pistol and Pistol operation to level 1 nets a lot more kills and is a lot more effective damage wise.......Wait, maybe this is the wrong thread, MAYBE, Scrambler pistols are OP Smg is good against scout
Smoky Fingers THE DOLLARS 1	Posted - 2013.02.14 05:19:00 - [40] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: I find the SMG's place right now is just about right, works quite well as a stand-alone in the right hands, and is an amazing backup weapon for most classes. The SMG for me is "My Gek's magazine just ran dry, I can't reload fast enough and the dude shooting at me is almost dead" gun. Agreed. As a snipe scout i find the smg to be quite effective at extremely close range (0-7m) against AR's due to the fact that most AR users usually panic and waste their clips in 2 seconds . The breach variant works particularly well in this situation due to its slow RoF and damage comparable damage to a militia AR. Maybe about three out of four times i find myself on the winning end simply because i can hold continuous fire from a single breach magazine 6 seconds longer than what the opposition could do with an AR and scrambler clip combined.

Imp Smash On The Brink 51	Posted - 2013.02.14 06:15:00 - [41] - Quote Smgs stay accurate (in fact I think bullet spread decreases a tad maybe) as they are fired. I took a heavy head to head in an assault type 2 yesterday with the Toxin (barely). I lost to a miltia suit 5 min later as i missed my headshots and he didnt. Honestly I think Smgs are probably balanced pretty well for how good they are up close and how horrible they are (or completely ineffective) at med-short range.
Scalesdini Universal Allies Inc. 58	Posted - 2013.02.14 06:41:00 - [42] - Quote SMG's don't need buffed, the baddies using them do. My Toxin routinely slaughters people. Several per clip sometimes.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.02.14 09:13:00 - [43] - Quote the facts because some people like to spread misinformation: -SMG has to compete with the scrambler pistol not with the AR, but the scrambler pistol is actually far superior as sidearm (fun note: the scrambler pistol gets huge headshot bonus damage because it scramble neurons, but well the SMG fires small explosive rounds, because exploding the face is less devasting than scramble neurons ) -SMG clip is not huge, the SMG fires as long as the AR before it runs out -SMG clip is not huge, it deals less damage per reload than AR -SMG reload time is not superior, it reloads as fast as the AR -SMG is not accurate, it misses alot outside 10 meters when you fire constantly -SMG does not deal more dps than AR, SMG deals 30% less -SMG optimal range gets up to 20meters with skills, but good luck hitting someone with it enough to kill someone due to the accuracy. -due to the falloff mechanic and accuracy of some shotguns, the shotgun can still two shot SMG users at 20m which is the SMGs optimal range with sharpshooter skill -the breach SMG is totally useless, it has 1 meter less range and 30% less dps over the regular one and it gets a MINOR accuracy boost for the drawbacks -the SMG sights are totally useless because they reduce the turning speed significantly oh and before someone tries to make made up "points" again: -I have SMG prof. at lvl 5 -I have sidearm sharpshooter at lvl 5 -I have done about 500 kills and a positive KDR while running SMG only in a militia logi suit so I know well how this weapon works -the SMG is pointless on a logi suit once you upgrade from militia logi suit to the standard one or stop using militia items. logi suits have huge fittings and with some sp in fitting skills it is well possible to carry a mass driver or AR with all the other stuff. you can also use some 0 PG items, or skip grenades before you have enough fitting skills and still carry an AR and mass driver. -on my assault suit the SMG is pointless as sidearmor too because fitting is not an issue again and I just fit the superior scrambler sidearm -the only suit that might benefit from the SMG is the scout, especially scout type 2 with two equipment slots because the scout has low PG/CPU.
GOLIATH STB SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 0	Posted - 2013.02.14 09:56:00 - [44] - Quote So ive got a bit of experiance with the SMG class, I found a full glass cannon build is the best route to go. 1 Dragonweave Scout suit 1 'Toxin' (X2 for both slots) 1 Kinetic/Stamina Module 1 Sensor Dampener 1 Side arm damage mod All millitia. The trick with this fit is to get round the back of people and just unload, if you run out of ammo you can just switch weapons, plus the ammo for both weapons is SEPERATE so in theory it gives you twice the amount of ammo. Ive Got Sub machine gun operation II Sharpshooter II rapid reload I. I was pulling 25-10 pretty easily, the fact you die alot is negated by the fact the suit is almost completely free to run... This plus the fact you can do this with the basic skills, and its great fun. Granted you need pretty decent map knowledge to get around the back of people but the extra speed and stealth help ALOT. If you get caught in the open then you have to zig-zag away, you get 1 shot by snipers if they can hit you, the trick is to not stop moving.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.14 10:09:00 - [45] - Quote Well guess I'm using a pointless weapon but I still love using my SMG on my Logi suit. Numbers aside, SMG just "feels" better close range than an assault rifle. I tried running an AR Logi and I was never in the right situations to really use it more effectively than I could a SMG. In my opinion part of what makes the SMG better close range is the high rate of fire. Sure it may not do better DPS than an AR, but if you start firing and you're off target you can quickly readjust with bullets immediately starting to hit, but with an AR if you start slightly off target you have to wait awhile for the next bullet to fire. And of course the SMG isn't competing with the AR, it's competing with the Scrambler Pistol. The pistol is far better at a range, but if you chose SMG you aren't about range. I always here people saying the accuracy is terrible once you start getting a little distance, but honestly if you use the SMG you shouldn't shoot anything that you can't hit while hip firing. If someone is gunning at me from out of my range I'll simply play the "line of sight" game and advance my way to get in his face. Oh, and I avoid open spaces like the plague. Manage to do very well.


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