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RAS Actual
Black Tengu Corporation
38
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Posted - 2013.02.12 09:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
and how often does that happen? 1 in 20? 1 in 30? i played Ambush only today, grinding up for my last basic fitting (forge gun, tankbros beware), and i had noticed the large gaps in games before, but today really drove it home. something is very, very wrong with this game mode. 2 games, out of maybe 20, were won or lost within 15 clones. usually the gap is much worse. i've seen 58 - 0 score differentials before.
i'm not complaining just to complain. i LIKE to play Ambush. but when every game is so disastrously out of whack, there needs to be some oversight by the devs to determine exactly what is happening and how play has become so unbalanced. i know there are a lot of factors, including tactics and teamplay, but this problem extends beyond player coordination.
an example: i played a match against Betamax today, who in every match i've seen up until now have destroyed the other team via teamwork. today, there was a whole squad of them, going into a fresh game. a whole squad in coordination could be expected to dominate, and they did. they all went at least 3/1 with double digit kills. and they still lost. one squad alone contributed at least half the needed kills to win a match and still that team got their asses handed to them. it wasn't even close, like 20 - 0. what is really going on here?
some possible causes/solutions:
1) MORE CLONES PLEASE! these games just go TOO FAST, the losing team never has a chance to rally. if you go down by more than 4 clones, at any time in the game, the vast chances are you are going to lose no matter what you do. at least if there were more clones the matches would last longer. as of now, even if you win, you get no satisfaction because the game is over before you can do much, unless you keep spawning right near the thick of it. there's just not enough clones to deliver a positive experience. 80 clones dying in 2 minutes, SOMETHING IS BROKEN. perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if-
2) TANKS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN AMBUSH, PERIOD. i know, i know, "spec anti-vehicle" blah blah. but what if you're on the same team as the a**holes in a tank, eating your dinner right off your plate by rolling around hoovering up all the kills? THEY RUIN YOUR GAME TOO. if there were enough clones (i.e. time) for opposing players to get it together and spawn AV it wouldn't be so bad, but as it stands 2 dudes in a tank just kill the match before the rest of their team even gets their boots on.
this de-incentivises play.
3) ARE REVIVES NOT PUTTING POINTS BACK ON THE TICKER?! because that would be F*CKED. being shot, body camped, shot again, plus the reviver going down represents a 3 point swing. one can imagine all the logibros trying to be good logibros reviving as many people as possible, just tick tick ticking away at their own chances.
4) oh...i dunno...maybe FIX THE F*CKING SPAWNING MAYBE?!? seriously? still? all these builds? all these months? all this progress, and you STILL haven't fixed this?! REALLY?! people are spawning behind each other constantly. 8 people are spawning all in the same spot at the same time. can you not figure out how to keep people from spawning RIGHT IN FRONT of an enemy? or at least make spawning players invulnerable until they move? something? how are people expected to invest time and isk into dropsuits if they never even get to move, much less aim at someone? this is hands down the worst aspect of the entire game of Dust in my opinion. an otherwise very satisfying game being undone by the most basic primary necessity of the game, ENTERING THE GAME SPACE. the game mode is like literally being smothered in the crib. i've been an avid tester since fanfest 2012, stuck by CCP through all of the MANY issues this game has faced, but after 11 months a failure to get this most basic aspect together makes this game look like straight up clownshoes. |
DropKickSuicide
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.02.12 09:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
[
[/qoute]
4) oh...i dunno...maybe FIX THE F*CKING SPAWNING MAYBE?!? seriously? still? all these builds? all these months? all this progress, and you STILL haven't fixed this?! REALLY?! people are spawning behind each other constantly. 8 people are spawning all in the same spot at the same time. can you not figure out how to keep people from spawning RIGHT IN FRONT of an enemy? or at least make spawning players invulnerable until they move? something? how are people expected to invest time and isk into dropsuits if they never even get to move, much less aim at someone? this is hands down the worst aspect of the entire game of Dust in my opinion. an otherwise very satisfying game being undone by the most basic primary necessity of the game, ENTERING THE GAME SPACE. the game mode is like literally being smothered in the crib. i've been an avid tester since fanfest 2012, stuck by CCP through all of the MANY issues this game has faced, but after 11 months a failure to get this most basic aspect together makes this game look like straight up clownshoes.[/quote]
Thats the ******* point of ambush. its not TDM |
RAS Actual
Black Tengu Corporation
38
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Posted - 2013.02.12 09:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
i'm sorry, help me understand. the point of ambush is that spawns are supposed to be a massive clusterf**k for everyone? and that somehow makes it not TDM? please elaborate. because one team, versus another team, without other objectives than diminishing the other team's numbers, IS THE EXACT DEFINITION OF TDM. and whether or not it's a TDM has no bearing on whether or not the spawn system is failgasm. |
DropKickSuicide
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.02.12 10:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ok yes it is TDM but its not your typical spawn on oneside and the other team spawns on the other.
The Spawns are random so is that someone is alwys being AMBUSHED, if the spawns were set to oneside each where would the AMBUSHING come into play? |
RAS Actual
Black Tengu Corporation
38
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Posted - 2013.02.12 10:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
i don't mean to be combative but i think you're taking the title 'Ambush' too literally. It's called Ambush because CCP wanted to be a little more creative than calling it Team Deathmatch. there is no other 'ambush' factor to this game mode. to ambush is to wait for an enemy to enter a specific area and fire upon it from concealment. that is in no way what is happening here. having a defenseless player magically spawn directly in front of you is not an ambush. it's magic. |
RAS Actual
Black Tengu Corporation
38
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Posted - 2013.02.12 10:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
if there WERE predictable bases from which enemies were pouring, THEN an ambush could be possible. random spawning if anything precludes the ability to ambush. for clarity, "ambushing" is the same as "camping" which in the case of "spawn camping" or "red-lining" is UTTERLY DESPICABLE. |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
168
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
About two hours before shutdown. Less than four clones separation.
Call it ~0900 GMT, 12 Feb 2013. |
Coleman Gray
Coalition Of Goverments
47
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Generally how a ambush goes, either the attackers catch the defenders off guard and dominate, or they find out they bit off more than they can chew XD |
calisk galern
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
9
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Posted - 2013.02.12 14:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
it's never a close game, and honestly it would be far better if the the players had team spawn zones, rather then just popping up in the middle of 5 heavies.
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Ops Fox
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
i had a few close matchs that end 0 -7 or 0-6 clones the other day but mostly its lopsided. |
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Jack Sharkey42
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.02.12 16:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
DropKickSuicide wrote:The Spawns are random so is that someone is alwys being AMBUSHED, if the spawns were set to oneside each where would the AMBUSHING come into play?
It's not a bug! It's a feature! |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.02.12 16:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Much like Ops FoxI saw several last night actually. Not that I'm saying most are, I think that 2/3 aren't that close by the end because one team builds up momentum and starts steamrolling the other team but close matches do happen.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
I loled at 2  |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
412
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've had a fair share of games end 00 - 00 before.
Quite the nailbiters. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nearly 100% of my matches in ambush are close. Its skirmish is nearly that are always landslides. |
Jack Sharkey42
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
I've had a few, but they are definitely few and far between. Usually after 2 minutes of an ambush game you already know whose going to win. The only game changer I've ever seen is when someone spawns a very nice tank and starts raising hell with it |
Lightly Salted
Lone Hire
7
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
I kid you not, I just had a 0-1 Ambush game today, and I was lucky enough to be on the winning side!
I agree with all you said, +1, except the random spawn. I love the random spawning, BUT it is poorly implemented right now. Actually, I think I'm gonna make a thread about that now.
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Void Echo
A.I.
26
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Posted - 2013.02.13 01:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:2) TANKS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN AMBUSH, PERIOD. i know, i know, "spec anti-vehicle" blah blah. but what if you're on the same team as the a**holes in a tank, eating your dinner right off your plate by rolling around hoovering up all the kills? THEY RUIN YOUR GAME TOO. if there were enough clones (i.e. time) for opposing players to get it together and spawn AV it wouldn't be so bad, but as it stands 2 dudes in a tank just kill the match before the rest of their team even gets their boots on.
this de-incentives people.
Absolutely wrong, the only ones that suffer is the enemy and when your on the same team as a tank, your thankful that your playing on the same side. |
Atikali Havendoorr
HERBGROWERS
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yesterday, or maybe the day before, I played 2 ambush matches which were very tight. In the first match my team was a few clones short during the whole game, until we all of a sudden won with a few spares. the game after that were reeeally tight, but my team managed to win with just 1-3 spare clones.
And thats it out of all my perhaps 30 matches ever.
I agree with all your points, especially the first one. There is not enough time to rally. If your team didn-¦t take the initiative, it-¦s a lost game. The spawning is also totally whacked sometimes. From time to time you spawn among a bunch of enemies just next to you. On Manus peak you tend to spawn in the corners of the map. Sometimes the enemy is holding both flanks. Going left.... ohh, maybe not, 2 heavies right there. Right then. Sh*t, a bunch of AR-dudes. The cliff is too steep to climb. Okay, lets-¦stay here then and hope they go away and/or my mates come and save me (which they don-¦t, because for some reason, every time you get in this situation is when your team can-¦t keep it up). Blam! A sniper saw you all along... |
Rachoi
HavoK Core
17
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Agreed with all points.
the Spawns need a certain coherence, because just as Atikali said, you can spawn dead center of the enemies. that really should not happen very often, mainly because it makes some very reluctant to spawn.
As for the tanks... yeah, those are rather unfair most of the time. and i do know people Spec heavily into tanks, they need points too, but not many in Ambush want to see a tank, on either side. a team mate called in a tank once... all i got to do was sit on my hands the whole match.
Revives DO keep the counter from dropping, since you only actually lose a point on that obard when someone bleeds out entirely or says '**** it, i'm respawning'. though the body camping is something solvable by doing a little feild clearing.... speaking form experience here too, since i dislike letting a buddy get up then just to get shot again the moment he/she is up.
and most definatly more clones, because 80 on each side will never be enough, especially when we reach the full sized maps |
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