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What Will Be The Future of Pay-To-Win?

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SlR KNlGHT TeamPlayers 5	Posted - 2013.02.10 18:28:00 - [1] - Quote Right now CCPs imcome streams are several; aur for items, UVTs, and ABBAs(aurum bought booster advantage ;)). I am very curious of enhancements. I believe the pay to win boosters will die off after peole achieve pinicle skill levels in the primary suits. I think boosters have a utility life span. What will happen when people max out on their chosen roles relative skill trees? This will take considerable time but not that long--it would take along time to max them all but I dont believe many are interested in that -I could be wrong. My question is what are enhancements going to be? Will theybe the likely long long term continuation of the pay-to-win structure? What are people likely to pay long run? What happened to a fix purchase?- do i want to pay to not be at a disadvantage?
LoveNewlooy WarRavens 6	Posted - 2013.02.10 18:37:00 - [2] - Quote SlR KNlGHT wrote: Right now CCPs imcome streams are several; aur for items, UVTs, and ABBAs(aurum bought booster advantage ;)). I am very curious of enhancements. I believe the pay to win boosters will die off after peole achieve pinicle skill levels in the primary suits. I think boosters have a utility life span. What will happen when people max out on their chosen roles relative skill trees? This will take considerable time but not that long--it would take along time to max them all but I dont believe many are interested in that -I could be wrong. My question is what are enhancements going to be? Will theybe the likely long long term continuation of the pay-to-win structure? What are people likely to pay long run? What happened to a fix purchase?- do i want to pay to not be at a disadvantage? Well this game not really p2w, since bosster only help u get everything earlyer but when everyone have 5m+ everything,that you need already max out. it doesnt matter anymore, it just matter of time, unless they make alot more new stuff. to keep the game getting income!
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.02.10 18:55:00 - [3] - Quote AUR paint and cosmetics will keep things going. Along with newer skills, equipment, and other assorted flavors.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2013.02.10 18:58:00 - [4] - Quote If they make your paintjobs cost AUR per suit, then there will be a steady stream of income as long as people have a desire to keep a specific colour scheme. If they keep bringing new players into the game, or keep encouraging long-time players to make new alts, then there will be more and more characters showing up, many of whom will purchase Aurum for Boosters and/or BPOs.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:04:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: If they keep bringing new players into the game, or keep encouraging long-time players to make new alts, then there will be more and more characters showing up, many of whom will purchase Aurum for Boosters and/or BPOs. This. They'll keep bringing new players in and taking Aurum from them. The vets will mostly be playing for free. CCP don't mind that the vets play for free, because they provide the advocates and headlines to entice the new players in, and a lot of the content when they arrive.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:09:00 - [6] - Quote SlR KNlGHT wrote: Right now CCPs imcome streams are several; aur for items, UVTs, and ABBAs(aurum bought booster advantage ;)). I am very curious of enhancements. I believe the pay to win boosters will die off after peole achieve pinicle skill levels in the primary suits. I think boosters have a utility life span. What will happen when people max out on their chosen roles relative skill trees? This will take considerable time but not that long--it would take along time to max them all but I dont believe many are interested in that -I could be wrong. My question is what are enhancements going to be? Will theybe the likely long long term continuation of the pay-to-win structure? What are people likely to pay long run? What happened to a fix purchase?- do i want to pay to not be at a disadvantage? I just... the mis-informed ill concieved sticky residue that is this thread is just too much to bear. I wish we could vote people out of this game.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1592	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:15:00 - [7] - Quote No pay to win here. Even the boosters aren't really pay to win because having better gear sooner doesn't make you a better merc if you don't have the proper experience and training to use those higher tier items. I understand the current debate about weapons and how they should be UNflattened in terms of stat differences for each tier, but that's something to talk about in another thread. However, boosters will not lose their popularity regardless of their shelf life. There will always be new players wanting to use the while the veterans see this as a viable source of ISK income once UVTs and Boosters are able to be bought/sold on the player-controlled secondary market like how PLEX is in Eve. Just like PLEX, Boosters and UVTs are expendable which will help maintain a certain level of demand in relation to their supply in the market. Just like PLEX and depending on their ISK value, players will then decide to either buy the AUR items with AUR directly (which requires cash to obtain) or pay ISK to another player willing to sell one for ISK (market traders). As for the notion of veterans no longer needing the boosters after reaching pinnacle skill level, that's not entirely true. There will be occasions where even a veteran might need to train up something really quickly if there is something important they need to do that is outside their normal skill planning. It happens all the time in Eve and no doubt will be the same in Dust. And when they do buy it, they might end up buying it directly from the primary NPC market with AUR or end up buying it directly from the secondary player market with ISK depending on which method is more cost effective when taking into account the conversion rate between the USD and ISK.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:20:00 - [8] - Quote There will be so many different ways to charge AUR ... how about manufacture time boosters, resource gathering boosters for planetary infrastructure, the same cosmetic clothing you get in Eve for walking in stations, there's also the 'buying isk' aspect you get in Eve buy buying PLEX and selling them on the market, you could buy boosters to sell for millions of isk to fund your vehicles or planetary infrastructure buildings rather than grinding the isk. Countlless possibilities we couldn't even imagine at this stage in development.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 96	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:46:00 - [9] - Quote Looking forward to decals, myself. I'd like to get a bullseye with a big middle finger at the center on my dropship. Ah, a man can dream.
SlR KNlGHT TeamPlayers 5	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:19:00 - [10] - Quote I still hold to boosters being the primary money maker will taet heavily. The influx of players is largest a launch and decreases significantly within that first year, if not less but this obviously deends on dusts legs. I see gimiky things like colours and decals make money but I reiterateehancements will be king longrun. As this game stands now, this game is pay to win. Ive capped since launch and my booster buddies have inexcess of a + 1 million sp lead on me. If you dont think 1/3more sp would make a significant advantage you are odd. The fact that you buy tangible statistical advantages whatever size, make this a p2w. What form enhancers will take is what i would like to know more about.

Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:23:00 - [11] - Quote not too worried about it since they already make a sht ton money off of EVE
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:24:00 - [12] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: AUR paint and cosmetics will keep things going. Along with newer skills, equipment, and other assorted flavors. Nooo, I thought we were eventually gunna get an in game suit editor that let us edit our parts and colors
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:27:00 - [13] - Quote we will be able to buy NPCs to do our crafting/looting and vanity pets.. also there's rumored to be epic mounts
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:28:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: No pay to win here. Are you sure? I have heard there is going to be a lot of competitions and that everyone is gearing up for the first annual mercenary armor painting competition and beauty pageant. And it seems like the only way to get the supplies you need are by spending Aurum. And if that is not Pay to Win I don't know what is. Now I have another question: What will be the future of ignorant forum posts? Posts that repeat total BS, throw out unfounded claims through implication and offer nothing of real substance? Will they continue to appear here no matter how many times we refute what basically amounts to a smear campaign, that may or may not be perpetrated by corporate moles, though of course I have no proof of anything of the sort and make no such claim about any specific individual... Any thoughts?
Mortal Maximus KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 8	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:30:00 - [15] - Quote Phew thanks goodness i'm not a noob :(
SlR KNlGHT TeamPlayers 5	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:31:00 - [16] - Quote Aighun wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: No pay to win here. Are you sure? I have heard there is going to be a lot of competitions and that everyone is gearing up for the first annual mercenary armor painting competition and beauty pageant. And it seems like the only way to get the supplies you need are by spending Aurum. And if that is not Pay to Win I don't know what is. Now I have another question: What will be the future of ignorant forum posts? Posts that repeat total BS, throw out unfounded claims through implication and offer nothing of real substance? Will they continue to appear here no matter how many times we refute what basically amounts to a smear campaign, that may or may not be perpetrated by corporate moles, though of course I have no proof of anything of the sort and make no such claim about any specific individual... Any thoughts? It will coincide with future of trolling.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:33:00 - [17] - Quote Getting sick and tired of asking for pay to win evidence.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:35:00 - [18] - Quote they will add a skill that allows you to /dance or play an instrument, and other mercs will be able to /view your dance or /listen to your song and this will buff the merc who spends X amount of time watching you /dance. also there will be player housing and you can buy an NPC vendor to sell the trinkets you craft and the for the beauty pageants you will be able to sell the clothes you bought with arum on your NPC vendor inside your player house which can be decorated with paintings you buy with aurum and also fish that you can catch in the various rives and streams of new eden but you must buy the fishing pole with aurum.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. 33	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:47:00 - [19] - Quote When the game launch we will have open market, and all those people that are buing aurum will have to sell boosters. Why would they need ISK for if they have aurum you would ask - because they can't buy vehicle for aurum. CCP will implement sooner, or letter a very big and expensive vehicle's(like MCC itself or even bigger) that will have some roles to play on battlefield that we have not yet seen. Surely you've heard that some districts will have shields to protect against orbital support. Big district shield = big structure with plenty shield/armor to kill = big surface-ship's meant to kill them(similar to dreadnoughts in EVE) = other surface-ship to support them. SlR KNlGHT wrote: What will happen when people max out on their chosen roles relative skill trees? This will take considerable time but not that long--it would take along time to max them all but I dont believe many are interested in that -I could be wrong. Those people http://eveboard.com/fullranks/1-skillpoints decided to do it, they and are still trying.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:54:00 - [20] - Quote You will be able to buy AUR items with ISK. So there's no pay 2 win, it will never happen. But because you can sell AUR items for ISK that means you can buy ISK with cash. This is where all the revenue will come from. Nobody buys a PLEX with cash to extend their EVE subscription, they buy it to sell for ISK. 560,000,000 ISK when I looked yesterday. So everyone just calm down, there will always be a market for AUR items because there will always be new players, new characters and skills that people just don't want to train. But let me say it again...you will be able to buy AUR items with ISK in the game. So no need to worry, CCP isn't planning on screwing up any time soon.

Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2013.02.11 22:57:00 - [21] - Quote SlR KNlGHT wrote: I still hold to boosters being the primary money maker will taet heavily. The influx of players is largest a launch and decreases significantly within that first year, if not less but this obviously deends on dusts legs. I see gimiky things like colours and decals make money but I reiterateehancements will be king longrun. As this game stands now, this game is pay to win. Ive capped since launch and my booster buddies have inexcess of a + 1 million sp lead on me. If you dont think 1/3more sp would make a significant advantage you are odd. The fact that you buy tangible statistical advantages whatever size, make this a p2w. What form enhancers will take is what i would like to know more about. You are wrong. Every time we are in the war barge lobby a voice says that you can use Aurum to, "Do more faster." That is about all you can pay to do. But I have never, not even one time in all the months I have been on the forum seen an argument that made any sense that showed that Dust was Pay to win. There have been a lot of really great discussions and debates. There have been posts that pointed to some problematic paid Items. Paid weapons and modules that give players obvious advantages (and I would argue that even those were not pay to win) are taken off the market. You don't win a prize if you have more SP. You don't gain an absolute statistical advantage. Let me repeat that. You cannot buy a statistical advantage over another player. I just don't see how you people that claim that the game is pay to win just can't get it into your heads that the skill progression has a fixed limit. And past that point there is no benefit to having more and more SP. Once you have all the core skills that benefit your merc no matter what weapon they fight with or vehicle they use the only thing you can get will be different flavors of gear. If you use boosters you just get to the same place as everyone else a little faster. I just typed this in another thread but you are not buying advantage. You are just buying more immediate gratification. Or maybe saving time for something else like, I don't know, spending time with your kids? Going to work? That is it. I see more and more videos on Youtube every week of decent FPS players going 9 and 1 in the starter gear. Tell me what they payed and I will do it. I have ever only done that well in a match in open beta while driving a tank. A militia tank. That only cost ISK. The players that have been playing the game the longest will have the most obvious advantage over everyone else whether they paid money or not. You already have a huge advantage over a huge number of players and are already weeks ahead hundreds of thousands of player. Please tell me that you know of a game where a player that has been playing the game longer than another player has no advantage over the new guy. There is no such game. There never will be. And that is all you get by paying for stuff in DUST. A time advantage. And that is part of every game no matter what. See also that whole "all items will be available for ISK on the player run market so you will be able to buy boosters for ISK too" counter argument as well. Granted, that is not in game yet so it might be a little difficult for some people to grasp. But just because it is not right in front of your race, right there in the beta this very instant doesn't mean that it is not real or won't happen.
The Jesus Christ Better Hide R Die 20	Posted - 2013.02.11 23:00:00 - [22] - Quote I can see CCP adding in a system that allows you to change ISK into AUR or atleast buy AUR items for ISK once the secondary market comes into place (Which I hope is soon, got these Officer Weapons that I'll never use lying about) So I dont think this game will be Pay-2-Win, in its current state it may seem like that, but once they open up the marketplace for players that might change.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2013.02.11 23:02:00 - [23] - Quote SlR KNlGHT wrote: It will coincide with future of trolling. I am mocking you right to your face. Not trolling this thread. I am frustrated and tired of this ridiculous fixation omn Pay to Win. Sometimes the only way to deal with crap is to make fun of it. Also I offered a counter argument. If you want to respond to that as well, please do so.
Dasyu Asura GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 57	Posted - 2013.02.11 23:42:00 - [24] - Quote I'm fairly certain my militia gear is pay to win. Pew pew pew in the face.
SlR KNlGHT TeamPlayers 5	Posted - 2013.02.12 03:05:00 - [25] - Quote Having to spend your isk on aur items while others just buy aur is still a disadvantage. Imbalance is unavoidable in most complex systems but this one just is design that way to make money. As is stands today, you could have paid for a million sp more than a non payer. ... translated to 33% of what I have. This usual means greater capability, damage and range especially early on.
Stevez WingYip Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.18 15:22:00 - [26] - Quote Dust right now is pay to win. I have tested this with several guns of the same skill level, and the real money options are just flt out better. It also means you do not need to spend isk on weapons and can spend it on something else instead. The pay options should NEVER have a stat boost over others. This will never work in the long run, and I am for the very first time in history, disappointed with CCP with this current plan of marketing that they have because it is not what I expected from them as my favorite company.
Stevez WingYip Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.18 15:22:00 - [27] - Quote Stevez WingYip wrote: Dust right now is pay to win. I have tested this with several guns of the same skill level, and the real money options are just flt out better. It also means you do not need to spend isk on weapons and can spend it on something else instead. The pay options should NEVER have a stat boost over others. This will never work in the long run, and I am for the very first time in history, disappointed with CCP with this current plan of marketing that they have because it is not what I expected from them as my favorite company. The fact that I even had to say that, and there is an argument that this game may not be pay to win is ********.
Stevez WingYip Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.18 15:23:00 - [28] - Quote The Jesus Christ wrote: I can see CCP adding in a system that allows you to change ISK into AUR or atleast buy AUR items for ISK once the secondary market comes into place (Which I hope is soon, got these Officer Weapons that I'll never use lying about) So I dont think this game will be Pay-2-Win, in its current state it may seem like that, but once they open up the marketplace for players that might change. Yes, this is what I hope for.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2560	Posted - 2013.04.18 15:54:00 - [29] - Quote For the most part, AUR items are identical - apart from skill prerequisites - to their ISK equivalents. When AUR items can be clearly identified as breaking that patten, and are directly and demonstrably superior to any ISK item of the same type, CCP have taken player comments about such items and have altered the AUR variants into line with their ISK equivalents. Basically, running in Prototype gear all the time for everything isn't financially viable. Unless you have someone funding you and overpaying like crazy to keep you in Prototype gear, there won't be a practical way to keep that up consistently without AUR. That isn't pay-to-win though. It's pay-to-save-ISK, or pay-to-skip-the-grind.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 464	Posted - 2013.04.18 16:58:00 - [30] - Quote Holy crap I am so glad you brought this back. The forums have been boring as hell lately and I really, really love these threads. Ok, let's do this: Stevez WingYip wrote: Dust right now is pay to win. I have tested this with several guns of the same skill level, and the real money options are just flt out better. It also means you do not need to spend isk on weapons and can spend it on something else instead. The pay options should NEVER have a stat boost over others. This will never work in the long run, and I am for the very first time in history, disappointed with CCP with this current plan of marketing that they have because it is not what I expected from them as my favorite company. Aside from the heavy and sidearm damage mods, shield regulator and I believe the 'Tsunami' Mass Driver since these items are errors, typos, oversights, whatever...what are you talking about? What test did you perform? What AUR item has better stats than the ISK version? Yes, AUR saves you money. Whatever, you can still make money at the game you just don't get to run advanced gear all the time and have to work a little harder than AUR users. Suck it up, they paid for the game and you didn't. Drinks were free in First Class, Mercedes will hook you up with a temporary car if yours is in the shop, and court-side seats cost more, what's your point? Stevez WingYip wrote: The fact that I even had to say that, and there is an argument that this game may not be pay to win is ******. Yes, it is ridiculous that people are still hung up on this P2W crap. Stevez WingYip wrote: The Jesus Christ wrote:** I can see CCP adding in a system that allows you to change ISK into AUR or atleast buy AUR items for ISK once the secondary market comes into place (Which I hope is soon, got these Officer Weapons that I'll never use lying about) So I dont think this game will be Pay-2-Win, in its current state it may seem like that, but once they open up the marketplace for players that might change. I really hope you can see CCP adding a system to purchase AUR items with ISK because that's what the market is. That's what it's always been. That has always been the plan as CCP has explicitly stated several times. It is coming. They are actually working on it right now. 100% guarantee that this will happen as it is a major, major component of the game since it was allow EVE players to purchase AUR to buy 'killswitches' to sell to DUST players for ISK. That's pretty much the only way the game will work since it is free to play. Literally, they have to do it or the game will probably fail. Yes, this is what I hope for. Good, because that is exactly what CCP is doing. That's always been there plan for as long as I can remember. They've also been doing pretty much the exact same thing in EVE for the last 5 years with PLEX. Well there you go. I still want to know what exactly makes it P2W cause I'm honestly just not seeing it.

GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Legacy Rising 340	Posted - 2013.04.18 18:59:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Getting sick and tired of asking for pay to win evidence. I am on my phone now, but surely the topics on supremacy goods is relevant. As long as those items are on the market the game is P2W. Not even finding it funny that people pretend like these items don't exist.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Legacy Rising 340	Posted - 2013.04.18 19:07:00 - [32] - Quote Also, the argument that CCP is removing the supremacy goods is not valid. Last week saw new supremacy goods added, including the return of the light CDM. As long as those items with better fittings remain, the game is P2W.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 466	Posted - 2013.04.18 19:14:00 - [33] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Getting sick and tired of asking for pay to win evidence. I am on my phone now, but surely the topics on supremacy goods is relevant. As long as those items are on the market the game is P2W. Not even finding it funny that people pretend like these items don't exist. I think the place where this falls apart is it seems there are two camps: A:Players that seem to want something done to AUR items until the market to level the playing field. B:Players that are fine to wait until the market shows up. (me) When I say "it's not P2W" I'm saying these things: 1. Market is coming, market will fix it. No additional actions warranted or prudent. 2. AUR items that currently have advantage over ISK items are mistakes and will be removed. Obviously the new damage mod and other shenanigans sort of negate my second supposition I still stand by my first statement.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 157	Posted - 2013.04.18 19:20:00 - [34] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: If they make your paintjobs cost AUR per suit, then there will be a steady stream of income as long as people have a desire to keep a specific colour scheme. If they keep bringing new players into the game, or keep encouraging long-time players to make new alts, then there will be more and more characters showing up, many of whom will purchase Aurum for Boosters and/or BPOs. I think it may be hard to bring new players into the game that is purely PVP and where lifetime SP decides who wins and who loses.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 467	Posted - 2013.04.18 19:40:00 - [35] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If they make your paintjobs cost AUR per suit, then there will be a steady stream of income as long as people have a desire to keep a specific colour scheme. If they keep bringing new players into the game, or keep encouraging long-time players to make new alts, then there will be more and more characters showing up, many of whom will purchase Aurum for Boosters and/or BPOs. I think it may be hard to bring new players into the game that is purely PVP and where lifetime SP decides who wins and who loses. With the diminishing returns on skills it won't take long (relativity speaking) for a new player to be able to hold on their own against mostly anyone. It's only at the top level where those level higher skills make the huge differences. Just like EVE really.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 59	Posted - 2013.04.18 19:55:00 - [36] - Quote I think that more people would pay for cosmetic things then for things that improve your effectiveness on the field. Such, as decals, different color suits, different lights from your vizor, weapon camo, merc quarter customization. Personally i will not buy any aurum unless I want to buy something that makes my merc look better or my quarters look better. Just me though, I don't mind grinding up skills...
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2031	Posted - 2013.04.18 20:45:00 - [37] - Quote I hate seeing threads being necroed like this, but not as much as seeing someone create a new thread about the same thing. So instead of having to file this thread under same-thread #153565999557427619568, I just need to pull out same-thread #12558.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2031	Posted - 2013.04.18 20:48:00 - [38] - Quote Overall, historically CCP has fixed our taken out certain items that are considered pay to win because that is what CCP is trying to avoid. There at a few still available in the market, but they are few in comparison to the large number of ISK variants and will probably experience a rebalance of their own one day.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 468	Posted - 2013.04.18 21:47:00 - [39] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I think that more people would pay for cosmetic things then for things that improve your effectiveness on the field. Such, as decals, different color suits, different lights from your vizor, weapon camo, merc quarter customization. Personally i will not buy any aurum unless I want to buy something that makes my merc look better or my quarters look better. Just me though, I don't mind grinding up skills... I would pay AUR to put a decal on my forge gun. Named it Betty Boom, already got the design made up in photoshop. lol. Maken Tosch wrote: Overall, historically CCP has fixed or taken out certain items that are considered pay to win because that is what CCP is trying to avoid. There at a few still available in the market, but they are few in comparison to the large number of ISK variants and will probably experience a rebalance of their own one day. I would have agreed with you like 2 hours ago until it came to my attention they've added a new damage mod for light weapons with the same stats as the one's for heavy and sidearm which until now I had assumed were just oversights. Might be another mistake though, wait to see how it plays out. I'm sharpening my pitchfork but I haven't lit the torches just yet.
Stevez WingYip Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.18 23:16:00 - [40] - Quote "Suck it up, they paid for the game and you didn't." Read that and stopped reading and laughed.

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1250	Posted - 2013.04.18 23:27:00 - [41] - Quote I'm betting on buying clones with AUR
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 468	Posted - 2013.04.19 00:53:00 - [42] - Quote Stevez WingYip wrote: "Suck it up, they paid for the game and you didn't." Read that and stopped reading and laughed. Glad I could entertain but I hope you also read the surrounding words.


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