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Radar R4D-47
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.02.09 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
After spending much time reading posts about dropships being the gunner of one of the best pilots out there i have come to the conclusion that Forge Guns might need some looks at, Currently as it stands A well equip forge gunner as it stands can drop a drop ship in 1 to 2 shots usually 2 seconds in between thus rendering a equally equipped fit powerless creating CCP's classic rock paper scissors mold. However here is the OP concerns that could be brought up FG vs Tank FG wins Tank beats everything else FG vs DS FG wins DS beats nothing (unless u have a pilot gunner combo) . So if CCP is trying to continue the rock paper scissors theory what beats a FG? Sniper rifle? A well equip FG has sharpshooter 3+ added onto a already quite long ranged weapon the only way that sniper is going to kill him is if he has impeccable cover. Assult Rifle or any other closer range weapon? with splash damage of 300+ unless your in your best suits the minimum splash damage alone will kill you. So what really beats a FG I'm curious as to what your thoughts are? My Thoughts on this weapons possible fixes are 1) Accuracy Stability Issues-a free fire weapon of the caliber should not be pinpoint accurate that way it can only hit large targets not fast moving ground targets strafing to and fro. 2) Removal of splash damage- This makes it impact only which makes sense to me if you get hit by something of that size and speed i don't care how much armor you have it should kill you. 3) Limitations to DS as the swarm launchers are able to make ridiculous motions to follow a moving dropship i believe them perfect for DS because it takes time for them to reach targets you have to take time to lock on DS are given a warning notice they are being targeted and cannot be used against infantry, however a FG has none of the previously state limitations therefore having a damage reduction only applicable to the DS would be ideal and make it more fair for everybody 4) Here is a more drastic look that could **** people off: ill stick to the standard but here is my changes to attempt to balance it Direct Damage 1200-1200 Splash Damage 210-210 Blast Radius 2.5-2.5 Charge up Time 3.5-5.5 Clip Size 4-1 (yes only 1) Reload Speed (I don't know what its current reload speed is but cut it down to 1/4th the time) Max Ammo 16-8 Cpu/PG unchanged This gives pilots and operaters time to react to a FG not to remove its usefulness as a AV I have some other variations that you could do instead but this i feel could make its current physics make sense. I'm curious as to see your thoughts. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.02.09 14:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
have you ever used a forge gun?
it takes 4-5 hits on a well fitted tank or more if the driver knows what he is doing.
your suggestions would kill the forge gun. having to reload after everyshot? useless weapon right there.
also its not easy to predict the path of a dropship. since the FG is one of three weapons with travel time. if you hovering in clear view of well everything you deserve to die a horrible fiery death.
nerfing the FG because it killed you is pointless because that's what it is intended to do. if you are flying a drop ship odds are something will kill you because the maps are far too small for it to actually shine.
Also whats next the HMG i can kill a Dropship with it so i obviously is op? MD if you hovering near me i can flux you and then pop you with MD rounds so that must be op as well? |
Deaver Loves Beaver
Insomniacs Anonymous
3
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Posted - 2013.02.09 14:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't think it should be nerfed but maybe looked at and see what the devs think. If they feel it needs to be changed then it will. If not then they wont . |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2013.02.09 15:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:have you ever used a forge gun?
it takes 4-5 hits on a well fitted tank or more if the driver knows what he is doing.
your suggestions would kill the forge gun. having to reload after everyshot? useless weapon right there.
also its not easy to predict the path of a dropship. since the FG is one of three weapons with travel time. if you hovering in clear view of well everything you deserve to die a horrible fiery death.
nerfing the FG because it killed you is pointless because that's what it is intended to do. if you are flying a drop ship odds are something will kill you because the maps are far too small for it to actually shine.
Also whats next the HMG i can kill a Dropship with it so i obviously is op? MD if you hovering near me i can flux you and then pop you with MD rounds so that must be op as well?
This. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.09 15:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
The issue isn't that a forge gun can kill a dropship, it's that it can conceivably kill a dropship with the dropship having no recourse
There was a thread where people worked out that a decent forge gun loadout does about 3500 damage per shot. With a Myron fit for nothing but tank you can have about 4000 shield hitpoints. No afterburners, no CRUs, nothin' but extenders. That's the only way to not get insta-blapped in a dropship.
And you can do this from anywhere, before the dropship pilot has any way to even know there's a forge gun on the field. The range is essentially unlimited, and it's incredibly accurate. I've seen videos of people using forge guns, and the stuff they can do is pretty crazy, and pretty unpleasant to watch as a pilot. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.09 16:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
We go over this every time the NERF FORGE GUNZ OMG post gets knocked off the front page. It's a space-RPG7, you have to lead it, and it's nigh-impossible to gun down an HAV in a single clip. If you hit an LAV or Dropship with the Forge, or even a trooper, it is the fault of that trooper/pilot, not the fault of the Forge Gunner. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.09 16:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Here's a video of a guy with a forge gun killing people, including LAVs, infantry, and dropships, from both at short and long range, while strafing, moving at full speed away, or while standing still. I'd love to hear what you would have done differently that would have rendered him unable to kill you. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd rather just buff dropship HP |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
41
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think this topic is looking at the solution in the wrong way.
Basically the Dropship hasn't got enough survivability, which is a problem that has been noted quite a lot recently. However if we slam a nerf on the Forge gun it removes it's role AS AN ANTI-TANK WEAPON which it is, and without it there is little that effectively tackle a HAV especially a Proto one. I like how you suggested the stats be changed, but I completely disagree with it sorry that's just how I see it.
You want to basically turn the FG into a single shot weapon with a 5.5 sec charge time, now this is all well and good when engaging at long range against a HAV with a blaster however this is not where you find yourself fighting HAVs much of the time (unless you just want to poke the bear with a stick). If you want to really tangle with a advanced/proto HAV you need to be close and by making it a single shot weapon regardless of the reload time you totally remove its usefulness for its primary role.
I have been hunting HAVs since last June as a Heavy and both of us have seen some horrendous nerfs, I can see where everyone is coming from but without the FG there is litttle to counter a HAV from an infantry POV.
I think the Dropship should get a buff rather than hitting the FG with the nerfhammer, I might suggest it get a natural damage resistance and as you skill up it increases.
Regards
Snag |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote: I have been hunting HAVs since last June as a Heavy and both of us have seen some horrendous nerfs, I can see where everyone is coming from but without the FG there is litttle to counter a HAV from an infantry POV.
I drive a HAV, since dropships aren't really worth flying right now. Virtually all of my deaths have come from clever use of swarm launchers and AV grenades (despite the fact that I drive a Sica), or railgun turrets.
Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate a massive damage reduction to forges. I'm more in favor of a massive range reduction. But to say that infantry would have no way to deal with HAVs without them is flat out wrong. |
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
A massive range reduction? What?
So all tank drivers can easily snipe everyone because we have no ranged AV weapons? Swarms don't count because they can easily be countered by a sniping tank. Not to mention you'll have a damn hard time hitting something (yes, even a tank) at very long range with the Forge anyway. Unless the tank is sitting perfectly still that is, but then it's his own fault for dying. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Looking four posts back at the video showing how very possible, maybe even easy, it is to hit a HAV, dropship, LAV, or infantry while stationary or in motion, from a variety of ranges, was probably too much for me to expect. Here, I'll link it again. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
171
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Posted - 2013.02.09 18:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:The issue isn't that a forge gun can kill a dropship, it's that it can conceivably kill a dropship with the dropship having no recourse
There was a thread where people worked out that a decent forge gun loadout does about 3500 damage per shot. With a Myron fit for nothing but tank you can have about 4000 shield hitpoints. No afterburners, no CRUs, nothin' but extenders. That's the only way to not get insta-blapped in a dropship.
And you can do this from anywhere, before the dropship pilot has any way to even know there's a forge gun on the field. The range is essentially unlimited, and it's incredibly accurate. I've seen videos of people using forge guns, and the stuff they can do is pretty crazy, and pretty unpleasant to watch as a pilot.
NO. Please show the math. Please. Proto forge with maybe 3 damage mods? Still the math is not there. A breach forge is special and used by no one. Just ....lies. A forge is wickedly hard to use on inf. unless your above them. Moving tanks laugh at forge efforts...geez what game are you guys playing?
edit: it is unwise to use the best of the best as a nerf standard. In that video players didn't attempt to kill him. A heavy with a forge is easy pickings for anybody with a gun...pew pew. |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
41
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Posted - 2013.02.09 18:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Snagman 313 wrote: I have been hunting HAVs since last June as a Heavy and both of us have seen some horrendous nerfs, I can see where everyone is coming from but without the FG there is litttle to counter a HAV from an infantry POV.
I drive a HAV, since dropships aren't really worth flying right now. Virtually all of my deaths have come from clever use of swarm launchers and AV grenades (despite the fact that I drive a Sica), or railgun turrets. Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate a massive damage reduction to forges. I'm more in favor of a massive range reduction. But to say that infantry would have no way to deal with HAVs without them is flat out wrong.
Once you get away from the first level HAVs you will notice a big leap in survivability if you fit out your vehicle well. And the later classes are even more effective at soaking up damage.
I'm guessing your Sica is rolling 5-6k shields? once you get a Gunnloggi up to the 8-9k mark with resistance mods swarms aren't such a problem to you guys in shield tanks.
I wasn't really saying that there was not any other way but that once you see more high end shield tanks that swarms are a lot less effective and sometimes even useless (Speak to Sir Meode).
Snag |
usrevenge2
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
64
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Posted - 2013.02.09 18:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
the forge gun has always been OP, it's honestly the best anti vehicle weapon for public matches. it does insane damage, can hit at range and kill infantry or LAVs with ease, even low skilled tanks, it also takes no skill to use forge guns. that said they are fun to use. |
CPL Bloodstone
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
13
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Posted - 2013.02.09 20:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
As a forge gunner I have say its balanced just right. Hard to aim so it takes some practice to hit fast moving targets. If your doing still you deserve to die. I can almost kill an hav militia in 1 shot but anything higher takes up to 5 hits. Im using tier 4 breach and there are smart tankers ive had difficulty killing. Im not much of a threat though when I have a bunch of snipers keeping pressu 're on me. Sorry, I think this is an not issue thread.
Militia tanks and dropships are good eats to my forge gun.
I did have a pilot do very well against me. He had ab`s which made it hard to hit. I hit him a few times and he boogied out. Came back dmropped some inf offf and got out of dodge.
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Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.02.09 21:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Forge guns are countered by infantry.
It has taken me WEEKS to get to the point where I am a threat with them.
And posting a montage that doesnt show the guy getting ganked does not = OP, it means yer watching a forge gunners greatest hits.
Edit: thats an ishukone assault forge. those cannot hold their charge. once the circle fills it goes off just like a tank railgun. |
CPL Bloodstone
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
13
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Posted - 2013.02.09 21:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Forge guns are countered by infantry.
It has taken me WEEKS to get to the point where I am a threat with them.
And posting a montage that doesnt show the guy getting ganked does not = OP, it means yer watching a forge gunners greatest hits.
Edit: thats an ishukone assault forge. those cannot hold their charge. once the circle fills it goes off just like a tank railgun.
Using the non chargeable forge gun takes timing and practice. |
Radar R4D-47
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.02.12 23:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
You guys completely missed the point this topic is a discussion on how to balance the gun or state your argument why it shouldn't be changed I'm not for bringing a nerf hammer upon it i believe its damage should be unchanged because without it tanks would own the field without opposition but because it is on the field dropships are rendered useless as infantry support because between a forge gun and swarms so easily accessed with massive increases each level for using them a dropship cannot be used so i believe dropships should get some sort of damage resistance to forge guns thereby making them balanced for tanks AND dropships so discuss accordingly
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
My main issue is forge gun vs small railgun- for performance, not an actual fight
A militia forge can OHK a starter fit LAV. A prototype small railgun still takes at the very least 8 shots to take down the starter fit (tested it myself during the codex build)
I'm not saying forges are OP- I'm saying small rails are severely UP. |
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
says the guy who camped a mountain with Officer Snipers. That's right I remember you...please tell me the militia submachine gun is OP too!
The fact that you have one of the most Powerful weapons in the game at your disposal, one that can decimate heavies wielding a forge gun, and you call them OP?
I just find that....unsettling. |
Polish Hammer
Conspiratus Immortalis
300
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Posted - 2013.02.13 01:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Leave the Forge Guns alone. Last time a select few got all bent out of shape about them, they nerf'd the damage to where they were pointless to use. Tanks had a damn frenzy.
Nothing is needed to do to the Forge Guns. End of story.
Which weapon is next on the QQ "IT'S OP" list? |
Ceerix MKII
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
35
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
People that use Forge guns get torn apart by infantry due to limited mobility, and are extremely limited in the amount of ammo they carry. Any decent Tank will take 4-5 shots from a forge gun before they even boost or try and escape. A drop ship requires 2 shots to kill and if the first shot isn't enough to get you moving again you deserve to die. I've killed plenty of forge gunners by just punching their face in as infantry, seems to be a pretty good paper to their rock. |
DropKickSuicide
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.02.13 05:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Im am strictly a ForgeGunner and 1 you should use the weapon before posting next time, and 2 GOOD pilots are hard as hell to hit especially with an Assualt FG.
Also the longer the distance shot the longer time it takes to hit the target so if your getting Forged from a long distance you may want to get better at flying.
Forge Guns are def not "OP" if anything I feel it may be the most balanced Weapon in the Game |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
412
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Posted - 2013.02.13 05:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Here's a video of a guy with a forge gun killing people, including LAVs, infantry, and dropships, from both at short and long range, while strafing, moving at full speed away, or while standing still. I'd love to hear what you would have done differently that would have rendered him unable to kill you. That guys busting out a Proto Assault Forge Gun in a pub match.
Of course he's going to stomp. |
DropKickSuicide
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.02.13 05:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Here's a video of a guy with a forge gun killing people, including LAVs, infantry, and dropships, from both at short and long range, while strafing, moving at full speed away, or while standing still. I'd love to hear what you would have done differently that would have rendered him unable to kill you. That guys busting out a Proto Assault Forge Gun in a pub match. Of course he's going to stomp.
lol that and this guys got some mean skills to,
Also to OP did you notice those last 2 words in the video name? yah its a HIGHLIGHT video. |
Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
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Posted - 2013.02.13 05:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
forge guns arent easy hitting a moving target takes luck and skill and i can only drop milita dropships in 2 - 3 hits anything better will take more giving the drop ship time to run. When going against experienced vechile pilots i only count on a forge gun as a herass to protect my team and drive the enemy from the front line. If i want a quick kill ill aim for a noob in a militia jeep ;)
typos typos typo everywheres |
Radar R4D-47
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 08:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Okay what im saying is they arent balanced for the whole game a standard forge gun versus a standard dropship should the dropship stop to pick up troops its destroyed before it has a chance to react TO EVEN RECACT how is that not OP thats were i have a problem with it. |
DropKickSuicide
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.02.13 09:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
So you died a couple time by FGs, This QQ is really getting old fast. Forge Guns are not "OP", if anything DropShips need a buff to HP Cuz I can take one out with 2 good shots on a sucky Pilot.
And you may wanna find a better place to pick up troops, cuz that just makes you a sitting duck thats asking to get blown to pieces |
Radar R4D-47
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 09:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:says the guy who camped a mountain with Officer Snipers. That's right I remember you...please tell me the militia submachine gun is OP too!
The fact that you have one of the most Powerful weapons in the game at your disposal, one that can decimate heavies wielding a forge gun, and you call them OP?
I just find that....unsettling. Wow really your going to take me back to my first month of dust were i didn't know anything i haven't even gotten to c if a thale has been changed or not if it hasnt there definetly needs to be a change. But i dnt know how to start on that weapon i have given my thoughts to this one and want to c what u would try to change so dropships can become a legitimate vehicle to use |
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