DUST Search - Heavies: The part of the argument I never see on these forums.

All Channels

General Discussions

Heavies: The part of the argument I never see on these forums.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:47:00 - [1] - Quote A lot of people talk about the balance of the ingame portion regarding the HMG. For the most part, cooler heads that I've seen have no issue with the HDS (Heavy Drop Suit), it's the HMG they hate, and the general census I've seen all leans towards nerfing the range on the HMG, which I'm not a fan of but would take in place of a drastic nerf. The Heavy should be a situation dictated role. On Maps with short medium ranged exchanges, they should dominate in one on ones with the exception of going against shotguns in CQC (who's balancing problems are for a different thread). So an effective range reduction, from a functional standpoint, would make sense. But it also adds to the biggest drawback of the heavy over ANY other spec outside of tanker. COST. I'm talking SP and ISK. It's the polar opposite of cheap. Heavy Gear costs about 300% more than it's higher level AR counterparts. As this game progresses, new Heavies will not fair well against medium buffed AR users, snipers....well hell, anything. Nothing interferes with the hit detection on them, so they'll actually take every bullet meant for them unlike the scout suits and faster logi and Assault suits. And they'll be spending more ISK and SP for the privilege. At some point in time, if you make the Heavy/HMG combo pointless to operate vs the cost, then newer players won't spec for it. It'll become a secondary role and only the long time players from the Beta will be the ones running around with it because we've spent the ISK and SP and already have built the role to the point where we can function well. Or newer player will "cook" their Heavy which pretty much does the same thing. Right now I'm running an armor tanked Heavy. My "best" one on one loadout is 94k, and that's just using tier III gear. If I die three times in a skirmish match with that rig, I lose money. Although that "best" loadout isn't as good as the relatively cheaper "Shielded Heavy" utilizing the Type II suit for most maps due to additional speed and shields. Which is another problem for a different thread...ie, might as well change the name of the game to Shields514. In order to be an effective Heavy, not dominant, just effective, you have to spend a ton more SP's than other roles. And it's worth it currently. And nerfing the range would then add additional SP cost as sharpshooter 5 would be practically mandatory. The Heavy/HMG is currently working as intended with the room for some tweaks. If changes are made beyond minor tweaks, then just get rid of it because at some point it won't be cost effective to run.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 32	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:54:00 - [2] - Quote I could see reducing the time it takes for the HMG to overheat as a possible balance. Reduce the amount of time the heavy can just simply spray bullets at someone farther away will reduce the amount of kills they get at range.
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:55:00 - [3] - Quote Players would just move on to the next thing to cry about. It will never stop. I despise the shotgun users, but you don't see me going after their weapon of choice. Leave my ******* HMG alone. - The shield variant of the proto heavy suit is over twice what it should be in the market because whiners wouldn't STFU in previous builds.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:58:00 - [4] - Quote The HMG should not have a range nerf (in my opinion). Numbers: Currently 1-35 optimal range and 60 max range. With range nerf 1-25/30 optimal range and 40-45 max range (I've seen this is what people want the range of the HMG to be). Why would I even invest SP into sharpshooter with that range? Even with 40% more range (with both sharpshooter skills at level 5, which is a ton of SP to get), you'll only have a optimal range of 42 and max range of 63 (not to mention you'll barely do any damage at 60 meters). A range nerf to the HMG will make the heavy way too situational. The heavy does not have the speed to being able to dictate where and how gunfights are happening. Edit: The only nerf to the HMG I want to see is a slightly faster overheat.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:59:00 - [5] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53941&find=unread tried to get some facts out there on the heavy and HMG
Tamuramu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 15	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:00:00 - [6] - Quote hmm
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:01:00 - [7] - Quote Adv and proto suits need more slots. Damage mods need stacking penalties. Prices for heavies need to be broguht down slightly. Either bring range down on hmg, increase spread, or increase heatbuild up, not all 3 at the same time, we already did that.
DropKickSuicide Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 74	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:03:00 - [8] - Quote Most people dont realize that when they get killed at distances they think they shouldnt the HMG user most likely has specd soley into Sharpsooter and/or using the Assualt HMG. ( wich both add to range ) If anything change the Passive skill from 5% to 3% personally I think this is the best way to go about it as it would keep the HMG usable while limiting the maximum effective range. and if they HMG is so "OP" why dont we see more usersand why do we see so many people droping the HMG for the GEK ( even tho they are Heavys )
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:03:00 - [9] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: I could see reducing the time it takes for the HMG to overheat as a possible balance. Reduce the amount of time the heavy can just simply spray bullets at someone farther away will reduce the amount of kills they get at range. I could live with this, but it wouldn't be good enough for the crybabies and you know it. The HMG/heavy topics would continue unabated.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:18:00 - [10] - Quote DropKickSuicide wrote: and if they HMG is so "OP" why dont we see more usersand why do we see so many people droping the HMG for the GEK ( even tho they are Heavys ) That's been pissing me off more than anything lately...guys running around in a militia heavy, running shield extenders and a GEK....what the hell is that all about? Back in a previous build I ran my fatsuit with a Breach (when they were preferred over the standard AR) and ZOMG it was ridiculous. As a Heavy users I really hate guys that just use the militia suit to roll through their early stages and then go shield tank AR as soon as they can.

usrevenge2 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 64	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:21:00 - [11] - Quote HMG needs a spool up time spread needs to be a little wider that's all that is really needed imo.
DropKickSuicide Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 74	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:23:00 - [12] - Quote usrevenge2 wrote: HMG needs a spool up time spread needs to be a little wider that's all that is really needed imo. This makes no real sense, even HMG of our own time have 0 spull up time and pinpoint accuracy at a fairly far distance.
DropKickSuicide Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 74	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:26:00 - [13] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: DropKickSuicide wrote: and if they HMG is so "OP" why dont we see more usersand why do we see so many people droping the HMG for the GEK ( even tho they are Heavys ) That's been pissing me off more than anything lately...guys running around in a militia heavy, running shield extenders and a GEK....what the hell is that all about? Back in a previous build I ran my fatsuit with a Breach (when they were preferred over the standard AR) and ZOMG it was ridiculous. As a Heavy users I really hate guys that just use the militia suit to roll through their early stages and then go shield tank AR as soon as they can. I agree, I see more Heavys wit ARs and Shotyguns ( what hecks up wit that? ) then HMGs
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:28:00 - [14] - Quote usrevenge2 wrote: HMG needs a spool up time spread needs to be a little wider that's all that is really needed imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG3Hi7K9MU4 No spoolup. Get owned.
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:34:00 - [15] - Quote usrevenge2 wrote: HMG needs a spool up time spread needs to be a little wider that's all that is really needed imo. Yes, that way we are completely helpless and can't fight back for a couple of seconds giving any second rate player a chance to bring us down with nothing but a militia AR. Perfect for scrubs.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:44:00 - [16] - Quote usrevenge2 wrote: HMG needs a spool up time spread needs to be a little wider that's all that is really needed imo. I'd rather they just delete the HMG than give it spool up time. This was on Brink. I got used to it, but I never liked it. In Brink though, I could carry and AR with the Minigun.....so running around I still had a distance weapon....it's no the same here. NO SPOOL UP. NO INCREASED SPREAD.....guys are jumping all over the place as it is messing with the hit detection anyways Heat lock needs to occur sooner. Maybe a SLIGHT....I like the 3% vs 5% idea.....nerf in the range. That's it.
Faquira Bleuetta Rebelles A Quebec 5	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:06:00 - [17] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: usrevenge2 wrote: HMG needs a spool up time spread needs to be a little wider that's all that is really needed imo. I'd rather they just delete the HMG than give it spool up time. This was on Brink. I got used to it, but I never liked it. In Brink though, I could carry and AR with the Minigun.....so running around I still had a distance weapon....it's no the same here. NO SPOOL UP. NO INCREASED SPREAD.....guys are jumping all over the place as it is messing with the hit detection anyways Heat lock needs to occur sooner. Maybe a SLIGHT....I like the 3% vs 5% idea.....nerf in the range. That's it. Stop Whining http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:17:00 - [18] - Quote why do we bother having assault suits and scout suits? logi suits and heavies are the only decent ones in the game. if a squad levels around 3 heavies and 1 logi they can pretty much just walk through the level unhindered. especially in CQC. turn a corner fire the HMG everyone in the hallway is now dead. they can even take a shotgun to the back of the head and have enough time to turn and spray the gun again.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 197	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:20:00 - [19] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: why do we bother having assault suits and scout suits? logi suits and heavies are the only decent ones in the game. if a squad levels around 3 heavies and 1 logi they can pretty much just walk through the level unhindered. especially in CQC. turn a corner fire the HMG everyone in the hallway is now dead. they can even take a shotgun to the back of the head and have enough time to turn and spray the gun again. ... have you actually ran with squads? scout suits and assault suits would run rings round your proposed heavy centric squad lol
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:23:00 - [20] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: why do we bother having assault suits and scout suits? logi suits and heavies are the only decent ones in the game. if a squad levels around 3 heavies and 1 logi they can pretty much just walk through the level unhindered. especially in CQC. turn a corner fire the HMG everyone in the hallway is now dead. they can even take a shotgun to the back of the head and have enough time to turn and spray the gun again. Is that why there's only heavies/logis being used in corp battles currently? Oh wait, pretty much everyone is scouts and assaults.

Okami Ryuku SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 4	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:26:00 - [21] - Quote As arguably one of the best heavies in sver true blood, I formally disagree a lvl 2 shot gun vs. My lvl 3 drop suit at close range can easily kill me with one to two shots all day. If ya sneak up on me I will die with a curse on my lips. But I have no issue with it because that's the point of a shotgun. Ask marston VC he is insane with it and he runs a scout suit, people vastly underestimates the scout suit. I think people need to stop complaining and let CCP do their job they know what's going on and will nerf or buff what needs to Be modify. It's their game let them make it.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:27:00 - [22] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: . . OP post . . Balancing with ISK, If you want to do balancing, forget everything about isk cost. Create a balance of operational use because that's what matters in what's underpowered and what's not. It's not the pricetag. Additionally, free market is going to tune the prices according every items actual worth in usability. In short: Forget balancing with isk prices. Balancing with SP, That can be done slightly, but it is usually very poor way to do it or at least has to be done using extreme caution. Why? If something is totally OP and as a result it's SP requirements are made high, the only result is that old players have access to that untuned OP asset and wipe the floor with the rest. About heavies and HMGs: They are fine. Sure they are terrible thing to face close by but so they should. They have plenty of strengths and plenty of weaknesses. Sure, you have to run away from them in some cases, but you have to smart enough to realize that. In other times, they are so easy to kill. Even the range isn't problem as you can easily pepper headshots for two seconds before HMG even start to get accurate. Repeat 2-3 times and presto.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:30:00 - [23] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Necrodermis wrote: why do we bother having assault suits and scout suits? logi suits and heavies are the only decent ones in the game. if a squad levels around 3 heavies and 1 logi they can pretty much just walk through the level unhindered. especially in CQC. turn a corner fire the HMG everyone in the hallway is now dead. they can even take a shotgun to the back of the head and have enough time to turn and spray the gun again. Is that why there's only heavies/logis being used in corp battles currently? Oh wait, pretty much everyone is scouts and assaults. This ^ Heavies do great in pub rooms, but in corp battles I hear they're real worth is how much SP they have in forge guns.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 197	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:36:00 - [24] - Quote Okami Ryuku wrote: As arguably one of the best heavies in sver true blood, CHALLENGE (wait for it)....................... .................... ACCEPTED!! It shall be conducted as a series of ever more devious tasks concluding with a race to see who can kill the most drop ships... with a mass driver!!...
DropKickSuicide Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 74	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:37:00 - [25] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: BattleCry1791 wrote: . . OP post . . Balancing with ISK, If you want to do balancing, forget everything about isk cost. Create a balance of operational use because that's what matters in what's underpowered and what's not. It's not the pricetag. Additionally, free market is going to tune the prices according every items actual worth in usability. In short: Forget balancing with isk prices. Balancing with SP, That can be done slightly, but it is usually very poor way to do it or at least has to be done using extreme caution. Why? If something is totally OP and as a result it's SP requirements are made high, the only result is that old players have access to that untuned OP asset and wipe the floor with the rest. About heavies and HMGs: They are fine. Sure they are terrible thing to face close by but so they should. They have plenty of strengths and plenty of weaknesses. Sure, you have to run away from them in some cases, but you have to smart enough to realize that. In other times, they are so easy to kill. Even the range isn't problem as you can easily pepper headshots for two seconds before HMG even start to get accurate. Repeat 2-3 times and presto. If SP and ISK are not used to Balance anything then why are there differennt prices in the game? Why not make EVERY dropsuit cost Xamount and EVERY weapon cost Xamount? Why does better equipment cost more if cost is not a balencing factor? Why do Dropships and Tanks cost more then LAVs? they are all Vehicles just with different jobs right?
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:47:00 - [26] - Quote correction, just went up against a heavy/logi team, we won, but barely. top 5 on both teams all had over 10 deaths. It was a hell of a fight. honestly, the biggest issue going against a team like that is running into a group of 3 heavies in relatively close quarters is a death sentence, unless you run, and you run fast. heavies need some work. particularly in the offence dpt. currently, I can usually get most heavies to half armor before I'm dead. the kicker is, if there are two heavies, I'm dead, but if two assaults run into a heavy, the odds are still in fatty's favor, unless the assault guys are using adv/prototype gear. tone down the HMG a bit, make heavies have to work for their kills, or at least not be able to walk around corners holding R1. furthermore, I still suggest a 33% chance of a catastrophic explosion whenever the trigger on a sniper rifle is pulled.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:50:00 - [27] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: correction, just went up against a heavy/logi team, we won, but barely. top 5 on both teams all had over 10 deaths. It was a hell of a fight. honestly, the biggest issue going against a team like that is running into a group of 3 heavies in relatively close quarters is a death sentence, unless you run, and you run fast. heavies need some work. particularly in the offence dpt. currently, I can usually get most heavies to half armor before I'm dead. the kicker is, if there are two heavies, I'm dead, but if two assaults run into a heavy, the odds are still in fatty's favor, unless the assault guys are using adv/prototype gear. tone down the HMG a bit, make heavies have to work for their kills, or at least not be able to walk around corners holding R1. furthermore, I still suggest a 33% chance of a catastrophic explosion whenever the trigger on a sniper rifle is pulled. If two assaults can't take down one heavy, they're doing it wrong. Try flanking next time.
Talruum Tezztarozza Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 74	Posted - 2013.02.07 11:37:00 - [28] - Quote As the matter of fact, A HMG heavy is an undisputed best n00bgrinder in this game. High HP, High DPS and Large magazine. We can keep shooting at them the longest. We can stay alive shooting at them the longest. Thus, we can kill them very fast and effective. N00b will whine about HMG Heavy. We can't deny that. Does this make a HMG heavy OP ? Hardly. We may come with DPS and HP advantage. But we also come with range and speed disadvantage. If you think these disadvantage are meager and of no use to you. It just show your inability to exploit them, aka n00bness. That is why we are so good at kiling n00bs. They do nothing else but stand still and shoot at our feet. A vet will shrug at us and just stay out of our effective range or dance around a crate until his shield is full again. In fact, what seperate a good heavy from a bad heavy is not their HP nor their DPS. It is an ability to close in, engage and dance around covers with tutle moving and turning speed, aka brain. This is not a point&click RPG where you just trade blow after blow until one drop dead. This is a FPS game. If you think EHP and DPS is an end all be all, you are in the wrong game.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.02.07 12:25:00 - [29] - Quote all I hear is the denial with the arguments of range disadvantage, speed & slower turning. don't get me wrong, I do not care about heavies being strong in one thing and I am glad when I have a heavy to support with my repairs in my team but the HMG accuracy and range is really good, if it is too good will have to be decided by the devs. but regarding the "disadvantages": first of all, the usual engagement range is inside 30m. running in the open is not an argument. if you run in the open you will die regardless of weapon wield. you dont have to expose yourself if you are outside your optimal. my logibro layout uses a SMG and I have heavily invested into sharpshooter which brings my optimal range to about 20 meters (alot less than HMG without ANY SP in sharpshooter) which is enough for 99% of my engagements. second, the speed is not a real disadvantage. you can move around the map quite fast with vehicles, even for free with the starter LAV. the sprint speed is slightly higher than the logis walk speed, but this means the logi can keep up while walking and REPAIR you during it, which is crucial if you are doing it during a firefight, an assaultsuit would instantly run out of range and die. third, the turning speed, oh really? I dont have problems to keep up with a light suit dancing around me, why do you? increase the sensitivity or use a mouse, turning issues gone. it is a fact, the disadvantages are no real disadvantage, merely pseudo ones.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2013.02.07 13:32:00 - [30] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: why do we bother having assault suits and scout suits? logi suits and heavies are the only decent ones in the game. if a squad levels around 3 heavies and 1 logi they can pretty much just walk through the level unhindered. especially in CQC. turn a corner fire the HMG everyone in the hallway is now dead. they can even take a shotgun to the back of the head and have enough time to turn and spray the gun again. Yeah!! thats why I am so OP in heavy HMG..........pakoosh!, pakoosh!!!, PAKOOSH!!!.....er dead again and why is that shotgun scout killing me again??



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.