DUST Search - Balance changes needed

Shay Sevila wrote:

I appreciate the advice and stuff people have given. The situation I had, in my view, wasn't something that could of been changed just because I had some different skills or equipment. Some people have gotten what I was trying to say. It was a case of not only an organized team, possibly more skilled as well, but also a high level team being put against a low level team. I know there's no such thing as "levels" or whatever in this game, so it's a matter of SP's and higher leveled skills allowing better and more powerful stuff. For example, it was a group of level 20's rolling into a noob zone of level 1's and wiping us out with no effort.

I know how the game works and the different skills that are available to a person. Yes, I wasn't prepared to handle different situations, but obviously neither was the other 15 people on my team. I have no problem with losing a match and even getting our butt kicked in the process, but anyone can admit that something was wrong when we lose that badly, with them wiping us out while still having around 110 clone reserve.

Like I said, the tanks always seemed to be sitting where we needed to be. Anytime I tried to engage one of the enemy infantry, I would get off a few shots and then have to run away cause a tank would come rolling over. As I'm trying to find cover from the tank, I get shot by the infantry that chases me down. That was the case every time. I don't have a problem with people using tanks or anything else, but having 3 of them at once seems a bit too much.

I'm sure this type of situation might be a rare thing at the moment and probably doesn't need to be top priority or anything, but as time goes on and more people decide to start playing, I'm sure this type of thing is going to happen more and more. It's not a case of needing to balance overpowered equipment, because I think things are perfectly fine in that department. It's a case of balancing who fights who. I'm not the expert when it comes to making those type of changes so I'm not entirely sure what could be done, but I do think at some point down the road that it's an issue that needs to be looked into.

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Shay Sevila Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:13:00 - [1] - Quote I'm pretty pissed off at the moment so excuse this bit of a rant. I've been playing this game for a few days and it's a great game. Been having lots of fun with it. I just finished a match though that has basically wiped any interest I had in this thing. The opposing team was rolling around the area with like 3 tanks. My team consisted of basically people with just standard beginner equipment. So we couldn't even approach any capture points because a tank would be sitting there and wiping all of us out. I decided I would be the smart one and switched over to the anti-armor starter dropsuit, which I thought was going to help with eliminating those things. The rocket launcher barely scratched them. We ended up losing the match due to our clone reserves running out and they still had like 110 left over. That was complete BS. Something needs to be done about stuff like that. I'm not sure what, but there needs to be some sort of changes to make sure fights are relatively fair.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:19:00 - [2] - Quote This isn't about balance its it was poor teamwork on your side, if you had a couple of guys running AV those tanks would'nt have been such a huge problem. Most tankers tend to be cautious when the enemy has AV, cause HAV's are very exspensive
Barack Ownbama Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 159	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:19:00 - [3] - Quote 1) Join a player corp 2) Get a mic 3) Pubstomp with buddies the way you just got pubstomped. Teamwork is the most important thing, and finding clan mates working together is a common sight in any FPS
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:20:00 - [4] - Quote Git gud
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:21:00 - [5] - Quote standard beginner equipment can still kill a tank.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 29	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:24:00 - [6] - Quote You basically had a bit of bad luck with the luck of the draw with people who had outfitted tanks. **** happens, learn from it and build your AV skill so you can do more damage next time. It's like getting a Vexor in Eve and complaining when an Erebus decides to kill you.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:25:00 - [7] - Quote Matchmaking is terrible. Sure, it allows for more local battles and such, but setting up teams is garbage. Premade squads need to be divided equally across teams, and non-premades should be divided by total SP- so one team doesn't have a ton of premade vet squads fighting a bunch of random noobs.
Vesta Ren ZionTCD Legacy Rising 33	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:25:00 - [8] - Quote Guys, their team couldn't kill a 500 k tank with their milita fits and their advanced ARs, obviously all tanks everywhere need to be nerfed right now. Sorry but it was a lack of AV on your team, don't blame the enemy for being better than you.
Shay Sevila Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:25:00 - [9] - Quote True, if my team had a proper setup then things would of been different. But again that goes back to some sort of balance needed. Instead of the matchmaking system loading up a team of just Enforcers or Scouts, it should be mixing in some heavys and stuff. And of course I was expecting the usual comment of "Git gud". Thanks for showing your stupidity to the rest of the community =)
Luther Mandrix Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 53	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:26:00 - [10] - Quote Question is a Titan balenced with a frigate answer No Is a Super Capital balenced with a frigate Answer No Is one Titan balenced against one Capital I don't think so. This game is way above just bullets.

Grims Tooth Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:31:00 - [11] - Quote It sounds like you got stomped by superior teamwork. Unfortunately, the only counter to teamwork is teamwork. One militia AV guy is not going to solo even a single tank. You will need to get multiple mercs to work together and communicate in order to catch the tank in a vulnerable position. This is not a game for lone wolves. It is a tactical game and requires you to work as a team to be decent. I realize that you are new to this game so here's some friendly advice: Find a corp, get a mic, and squad up. Go to the recruitment thread and find a corp you want to apply to. A lot of them will accept beginners and show them the ropes (you might even get into the corp that beat you in the first place). I see that you are still in a default corp so even before you find a new corp, you can go onto your corp chat and ask for people to squad up with. Make a plan, if you have a Heavy in your squad, be a Logi and stick together. Remember, a squad of beginners is still better than no squad at all.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:32:00 - [12] - Quote to be fair the real issue here is that you had to fight 2 squads most likely. CCP every muliplayer shooter every puts solo players and organised squads in DIFFERENT MATCH MAKING POOLS
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:38:00 - [13] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Question is a Titan balenced with a frigate answer No Is a Super Capital balenced with a frigate Answer No Is one Titan balenced against one Capital I don't think so. This game is way above just bullets. Cough, it was because of a frigate the first titan ever died. is an industrial (18 wheeler) imbalanced against a battleship (main battle tank)? maybe... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6so9AT4UydQ
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:39:00 - [14] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: to be fair the real issue here is that you had to fight 2 squads most likely. CCP every muliplayer shooter every puts solo players and organised squads in DIFFERENT MATCH MAKING POOLS You sure? call of duty, planetside 2, and battlefield 3 puts me against clans all the time, and I am not the clan type person.
Konohamaru Sarutobi Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 91	Posted - 2013.02.02 00:52:00 - [15] - Quote Shay Sevila wrote: I'm pretty pissed off at the moment so excuse this bit of a rant. I've been playing this game for a few days and it's a great game. Been having lots of fun with it. I just finished a match though that has basically wiped any interest I had in this thing. The opposing team was rolling around the area with like 3 tanks. My team consisted of basically people with just standard beginner equipment. So we couldn't even approach any capture points because a tank would be sitting there and wiping all of us out. I decided I would be the smart one and switched over to the anti-armor starter dropsuit, which I thought was going to help with eliminating those things. The rocket launcher barely scratched them. We ended up losing the match due to our clone reserves running out and they still had like 110 left over. That was complete BS. Something needs to be done about stuff like that. I'm not sure what, but there needs to be some sort of changes to make sure fights are relatively fair. Just find a corp, because matchmaking, well... there is not matchamaking. CCP says that "matchmaking will work when more people play the game" but don't know. I'm still waiting for it since the closed beta. I think, new sounds with bugs is more important lol (sarcasm) Sorry for the english. See you.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 323	Posted - 2013.02.02 01:02:00 - [16] - Quote Shay Sevila wrote: Something needs to be done about stuff like that. I'm not sure what, but there needs to be some sort of changes to make sure fights are relatively fair. Yeah, it's called keep playing and get better. If you expect this to be the same 'ol run of the mill shooter,then you came to the wrong place. There is a difference between balanced and fair. Sure there still needs to be some tweaking to make it more balanced, but as far as the game being "fair", that's up to you and your teammates to even the odds of winning,by any means necessary.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.02.02 01:04:00 - [17] - Quote Fact is in pub matches you always run the risk of being outclased by a player or group of players. Even a really diverse 4 player squad cannot at this early stage in the game have enough versatility to take on every threat. Well i mean they can but it requires 4 very specialized players with 4 very specific skillset. You need an all around Slayer, Heavy with HMG and Assault FG, A tanker with at LEAST lvl 2 large turrets and a support logi. All 4 of these players need AV nades on one of their fits to complement the tank and co-ordinate flux fire to strip off shield or blaster fire from tank to do the same, this is followed up by breach HMG or more likely assualt FG with the other 2 using starter SL with stacked dmg mods. If it is a gunlogi then its even easier Assualt FG with Two starter SL fits with dmg mods and flux nades on all 3 players, tank guy can just be a distraction because well 3 man team doing this equal really dead Gunlogi. Ive just outlined a series of tactics that require minimal SP investment, heck the tank is a nice bonus and not really needed except to serve as a distraction or slay the tank outright. It just about being creative with what you have and knowing what works against what. Fun fact if you have weaponry to level 5 then you can skill into FG there is no excuse for any player to not spend the 49,740 SP(total) needed to unlock FG operation lvl 2 and unlock the breach and assault FG to use. Combine this on a militia heavy suit which requires no SP investment or the 70 AUR heavy suit(you're only using this thing to deal with tanks so you shouldnt worry too much about putting them at risk since you won't use them all the time) If you got DS comman to lvl 3 then go ahead and spend the 49,760 SP on a type I heavy suit and now all you are risking is ISK. Now to put that in terms ppl can understand with boosters that is a 1-2 diversion from your primary build that will give you a rather effective fitting to handle tanks, Now have an entire squad that can do this on the fly and tanks are no longer a problem(mostly). The imbalance you speak of does exist but it is not a gear imbalance or an SP imbalance it is a team coordination imbalance. When you have 16 players all in seperate chat channels not even bothering to screen team chat when in the war barge and unable to communicate or coordinate against any group of players that are sharing comms, it is an almost guaranteed loss. So my advice is get creative, think about the problem and come up with a solution, the one i provided for you above i came up with as i was responding to this post. There are im sure other way to go about it and you need to figure out what works best for you. But dont expect to do well if all you have is a full squad of AR players unless you're an Imperfect. (Sorry couldn't resist) Also sorry Zitro and fellow tankers ive perhaps may have given away too much goodness in this post.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.02 01:31:00 - [18] - Quote this harks to the age old saying Adapt or Die!
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.02.02 01:59:00 - [19] - Quote Shay Sevila wrote: True, if my team had a proper setup then things would of been different. But again that goes back to some sort of balance needed. Instead of the matchmaking system loading up a team of just Enforcers or Scouts, it should be mixing in some heavys and stuff. And of course I was expecting the usual comment of "Git gud". Thanks for showing your stupidity to the rest of the community =) That's not how matchmaking works. You can change your dropsuit after you go in a game, and even during a game. MM should match people based on their skill level, but it seems to be work in progress since the game is in beta. You got pubstomped by an organized group - happens in every FPS. Nothing to balance, but MM needs to be improved if we get more of these.
amarrian victorian Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2013.02.02 02:02:00 - [20] - Quote OP isnt saying tanks are OP or his team should have won, OP is saying those 2 teams should never have been matched up against each other. It be like a bronze starcraft 2 player hitting join 1v1 and going against a master ranked person.

Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 443	Posted - 2013.02.02 02:09:00 - [21] - Quote Shay Sevila wrote: I'm pretty pissed off at the moment so excuse this bit of a rant. I've been playing this game for a few days and it's a great game. Been having lots of fun with it. I just finished a match though that has basically wiped any interest I had in this thing. The opposing team was rolling around the area with like 3 tanks. My team consisted of basically people with just standard beginner equipment. So we couldn't even approach any capture points because a tank would be sitting there and wiping all of us out. I decided I would be the smart one and switched over to the anti-armor starter dropsuit, which I thought was going to help with eliminating those things. The rocket launcher barely scratched them. We ended up losing the match due to our clone reserves running out and they still had like 110 left over. That was complete BS. Something needs to be done about stuff like that. I'm not sure what, but there needs to be some sort of changes to make sure fights are relatively fair. If you see my alts gunnlogi xXDust BunnyXx, quit game. 50/0 on those starter swarm fits the other day, they tickle. However if you put actual SP into swarms, they'll hurt. Just because your free suit doesn't get the job done doesn't mean its out of balance. I have found out what Mr. Zitro was talking about the other day with AV grenades, ya they seem a lil' well ya I no like. I definitely will lose a tank if facing a good squad of dedicated AV, I went against kain Spero the other day, while he was the only AV on their team I spent most of the game in full retreat near death. Even with 8k buffer, he ate my face. Put SP into AV if you have vehicle issues, don't expect dust to be based around a one weapon to rule them all ideal. Balance has to do with skills and tactics as well as teamwork. If your the only 1 AV and not a dedicated AV person, expect death. EDIT CCP can't make match making fair, who knows what a merc will drop, or what different loadouts he/she may have, how good they can fit things.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.02.02 02:17:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: to be fair the real issue here is that you had to fight 2 squads most likely. CCP every muliplayer shooter every puts solo players and organised squads in DIFFERENT MATCH MAKING POOLS You sure? call of duty, planetside 2, and battlefield 3 puts me against clans all the time, and I am not the clan type person. Call of Duty has a mercenary playlist for people without friends.
Shay Sevila Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.02.02 09:24:00 - [23] - Quote I appreciate the advice and stuff people have given. The situation I had, in my view, wasn't something that could of been changed just because I had some different skills or equipment. Some people have gotten what I was trying to say. It was a case of not only an organized team, possibly more skilled as well, but also a high level team being put against a low level team. I know there's no such thing as "levels" or whatever in this game, so it's a matter of SP's and higher leveled skills allowing better and more powerful stuff. For example, it was a group of level 20's rolling into a noob zone of level 1's and wiping us out with no effort. I know how the game works and the different skills that are available to a person. Yes, I wasn't prepared to handle different situations, but obviously neither was the other 15 people on my team. I have no problem with losing a match and even getting our butt kicked in the process, but anyone can admit that something was wrong when we lose that badly, with them wiping us out while still having around 110 clone reserve. Like I said, the tanks always seemed to be sitting where we needed to be. Anytime I tried to engage one of the enemy infantry, I would get off a few shots and then have to run away cause a tank would come rolling over. As I'm trying to find cover from the tank, I get shot by the infantry that chases me down. That was the case every time. I don't have a problem with people using tanks or anything else, but having 3 of them at once seems a bit too much. I'm sure this type of situation might be a rare thing at the moment and probably doesn't need to be top priority or anything, but as time goes on and more people decide to start playing, I'm sure this type of thing is going to happen more and more. It's not a case of needing to balance overpowered equipment, because I think things are perfectly fine in that department. It's a case of balancing who fights who. I'm not the expert when it comes to making those type of changes so I'm not entirely sure what could be done, but I do think at some point down the road that it's an issue that needs to be looked into.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.02 10:52:00 - [24] - Quote Shay Sevila wrote: I appreciate the advice and stuff people have given. The situation I had, in my view, wasn't something that could of been changed just because I had some different skills or equipment. Some people have gotten what I was trying to say. It was a case of not only an organized team, possibly more skilled as well, but also a high level team being put against a low level team. I know there's no such thing as "levels" or whatever in this game, so it's a matter of SP's and higher leveled skills allowing better and more powerful stuff. For example, it was a group of level 20's rolling into a noob zone of level 1's and wiping us out with no effort. I know how the game works and the different skills that are available to a person. Yes, I wasn't prepared to handle different situations, but obviously neither was the other 15 people on my team. I have no problem with losing a match and even getting our butt kicked in the process, but anyone can admit that something was wrong when we lose that badly, with them wiping us out while still having around 110 clone reserve. Like I said, the tanks always seemed to be sitting where we needed to be. Anytime I tried to engage one of the enemy infantry, I would get off a few shots and then have to run away cause a tank would come rolling over. As I'm trying to find cover from the tank, I get shot by the infantry that chases me down. That was the case every time. I don't have a problem with people using tanks or anything else, but having 3 of them at once seems a bit too much. I'm sure this type of situation might be a rare thing at the moment and probably doesn't need to be top priority or anything, but as time goes on and more people decide to start playing, I'm sure this type of thing is going to happen more and more. It's not a case of needing to balance overpowered equipment, because I think things are perfectly fine in that department. It's a case of balancing who fights who. I'm not the expert when it comes to making those type of changes so I'm not entirely sure what could be done, but I do think at some point down the road that it's an issue that needs to be looked into. But the problem still comes down to the system can't predict what a merc can/will bring into the game. I run around with an AR or sniper rifle and I die a lot because I haven't got any skills in those, but I pull out my HVY HMG fit and suddenly I look like someone who's been working on it for a long time. Figure out what you want your primary combat role to be and focus on that. Once you've got the skills, gear, and (hopefully) the personal skill to do well, then branch out. Also, when you need that heavy hit, there's always the Dire Sentinel, if it's still there as of this writing. If you stick with it though, you'll find that there are times when you get on a team that can't coordinate a goldfish into a bowl and other times, you find a team where cohesion is good and you'll be the ones pubstomping.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 16	Posted - 2013.02.02 11:21:00 - [25] - Quote Shay Sevila wrote: I appreciate the advice and stuff people have given. The situation I had, in my view, wasn't something that could of been changed just because I had some different skills or equipment. Some people have gotten what I was trying to say. It was a case of not only an organized team, possibly more skilled as well, but also a high level team being put against a low level team. I know there's no such thing as "levels" or whatever in this game, so it's a matter of SP's and higher leveled skills allowing better and more powerful stuff. For example, it was a group of level 20's rolling into a noob zone of level 1's and wiping us out with no effort. I know how the game works and the different skills that are available to a person. Yes, I wasn't prepared to handle different situations, but obviously neither was the other 15 people on my team. I have no problem with losing a match and even getting our butt kicked in the process, but anyone can admit that something was wrong when we lose that badly, with them wiping us out while still having around 110 clone reserve. Like I said, the tanks always seemed to be sitting where we needed to be. Anytime I tried to engage one of the enemy infantry, I would get off a few shots and then have to run away cause a tank would come rolling over. As I'm trying to find cover from the tank, I get shot by the infantry that chases me down. That was the case every time. I don't have a problem with people using tanks or anything else, but having 3 of them at once seems a bit too much. I'm sure this type of situation might be a rare thing at the moment and probably doesn't need to be top priority or anything, but as time goes on and more people decide to start playing, I'm sure this type of thing is going to happen more and more. It's not a case of needing to balance overpowered equipment, because I think things are perfectly fine in that department. It's a case of balancing who fights who. I'm not the expert when it comes to making those type of changes so I'm not entirely sure what could be done, but I do think at some point down the road that it's an issue that needs to be looked into. Maps are "Barebones" atm. They will be much bigger w/ more Vehicles allowed per Map & Players allowed in Squads/Per Match. If you are QQing now......wait 'till you have 2 Tanks, 1 Dropship, 3 Heavies in LAVs, 2 Jets & a Mech the size of a Skyscraper ROFLSTOMPING while the Frontliners call in their "Pets" (Drones) to keep distractions abundant. Welcome to New Eden, HTFU, Adapt or DIE :P
skittlez12345678 World Wide Killers 1	Posted - 2013.02.02 15:51:00 - [26] - Quote Just activated my active booster and I'm getting less SP than when I was getting without the booster. How are these points distributed, I can be #1 on the team and get 2000-3500 like? If it's based on the contribution to the team and I'm taking points and getting 10 or so kills while I'm at it how am I getting such few points this is stupid.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 92	Posted - 2013.02.02 15:59:00 - [27] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: this harks to the age old saying Adapt or Die! In EVE and DUST we call this: Harden The F*** Up. HTFU bud. Corp up, squad up, smart up. Everyone goes through those kinds of matches, and yes they suck. If you keep improving, you'll wind up on the other side.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.02.02 16:06:00 - [28] - Quote There's a daily cap right now you can only get around 30000 sp per day without boosters. Ccp have been saying that they will change it for agetubut nothing's been happening
Tbone322 D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2013.02.02 16:35:00 - [29] - Quote At the risk of being flamed, I kind of think there should be some kind of vehicle limit in pub matches. LAV's would be limitless, but limit tank numbers so that one team can only have 2 tanks more than the other team. I realize this is New Eden and players need to HTFU, but the fact is that we need players. The more game modes we want the more players we need to support those modes. If a noobs first experience with the game is against 3 tanks they're probably gonna leave. I don't want to dumb this game down, but simple limitations in Pub matches aren't gonna hurt anybody.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.02 16:44:00 - [30] - Quote Tbone322 wrote: At the risk of being flamed, I kind of think there should be some kind of vehicle limit in pub matches. LAV's would be limitless, but limit tank numbers so that one team can only have 2 tanks more than the other team. I realize this is New Eden and players need to HTFU, but the fact is that we need players. The more game modes we want the more players we need to support those modes. If a noobs first experience with the game is against 3 tanks they're probably gonna leave. I don't want to dumb this game down, but simple limitations in Pub matches aren't gonna hurt anybody. there is a limit....



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