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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
379
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
The SP/isk penalty makes sense as a deterrent and the marking system sounds similar to what they have for pvpers in high sec in eve right now, so it could work. the game bans however are ridiculous considering the the universe we inhabit. unless you have forgotten EVE online is infamous for it scams, assassinations, and overall dirty tactics. i mean can you imagine a more effective strategy than having a couple of guys infiltrate a corp and then during a critical match cripple their team by attacking them. If FF does come to eve in the words of the devs and various eve players "welcome to new eden" and "adapt or die" |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:Grendel Aurelius wrote:Team Killing is such a harsh term. I like to think of it as... Mass Driver Assisted Suicide. Which really, if you just run into my line of fire, it is. i really hope there is TKing just for this, cant tell you how many times im laying down suppressive fire with my MD and about to get some kills out of the exchange when blue balls McGee over there jumps in front of me steals my kill and the splash damage off of his shield ends up hurting me or worse once killing me. Now when said jerkoff jumps in my way he dies in all the noob glory he deserves. MDers and HMGers will stand side by side - covered in the blood of there allies who couldn't figure out to GTF outta our ways ^_^ |
suzisage
Mercenaries on Demand
18
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
I teamkilled a bunch of people yesterday because an enemy shot down my dropship and the wreckage fell on them.
Team-killing doesn't happen enough to warrant an auto-kick penalty because, in my experience, when it does happen, it's usually a freak accident.
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Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I think if you kill an ally, your security status should go down, and if you kill an ally in high security, concord locks your dropsuits, and kills the clone inside with an override code. You're then barred from spawning back in for X amount of time, given a warning that further hostile actions will not be tolerated. and if you do it again, they slaughter your clone, and boot you from the game. Do it enough times, and you'll be placed on a cooldown to get back into matchmaking, that just goes up and up and up the more you do it (in high security. Low and Null, quit being a ***** and get with the times).
Also, as your security status goes down, you wouldn't even be allowed into high security (granted, this system wouldn't work perfectly at the moment because we only have access to high sec at the moment, but in the grand scheme of things)
In addition, some sort of system should be devised (significantly easier said than done lol) that tries to filter out accidental friendly fire, primarily from idiot friendlies who just wander into the fray, heedless of their surroundings.
Precisely. There IS no reliable automated method to distinguish a TK from a suicide (intentional or otherwise). FF or a penalty for FF are BOTH tools for griefing.
The only reliable method is personal observation, and CCP is not going to play referee for hundreds of complaints.
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
288
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Had some noob try to ghost me last night with his LAV, but for some odd reason it only partially hurt me. Is there now degrees of damage done by being run over with LAV's?
As for how to deal with these turkeys, I'm not entirely sure. A vote to kick option is out the window for sure, as I could imagine envious teammates kicking those that are doing better than them (or perhaps they got dominated by that player in a previous match and want revenge).
I think the best solution would be to have a report system in game. If a person is reported x amount of time for being a griefer and the devs confirm it by checking the logs, then that person will have their IP permanently banned from the game. This way they can't just make another PSN account to do it all over again.
Plus if it's well known that people can be perma-banned by their IP from the game, then there is going to be a lot less that will do it just from that alone. |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
103
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote: I think the best solution would be to have a report system in game. If a person is reported x amount of time for being a griefer and the devs confirm it by checking the logs, then that person will have their IP permanently banned from the game. This way they can't just make another PSN account to do it all over again.
Plus if it's well known that people can be perma-banned by their IP from the game, then there is going to be a lot less that will do it just from that alone.
This will never ever happen in New Eden . EVER !!!!!! |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
379
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
i think the response to teamkillers should be player led, for example Shijima Kuraimaru said this
Quote:TKing will have much higher risks than many believe. All these calls for penalties just shows me that many people lack critical thinking. When FF goes live and you get intentionally TKed, how about you just remember who it is so you can gank them whenever you see them or even, *gasp* dare I suggest it, offer a reward for confirmed TK kills against the person who Intentionally TKed you to a state of QQ. on this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55107&p=3 |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
288
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gelan Corbaine wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote: I think the best solution would be to have a report system in game. If a person is reported x amount of time for being a griefer and the devs confirm it by checking the logs, then that person will have their IP permanently banned from the game. This way they can't just make another PSN account to do it all over again.
Plus if it's well known that people can be perma-banned by their IP from the game, then there is going to be a lot less that will do it just from that alone.
This will never ever happen in New Eden . EVER !!!!!!
Why not? Because griefing is part of the experience of EVE, or because the devs won't do it? If it's the latter then it just hurts their game letting people get away with it. I mean say somebody is running a pure AUR fit and they get Tked by a griefer, well that is real money lost right there.
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Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
334
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55203&find=unread
my idea for FF. |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
103
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:
Why not? Because griefing is part of the experience of EVE, or because the devs won't do it? If it's the latter then it just hurts their game letting people get away with it. I mean say somebody is running a pure AUR fit and they get Tked by a griefer, well that is real money lost right there.
Both . And define "getting away with it ." ? CCP is much more likely to put tools and systems to let the players deal with the problems themselves .........brutally . Life in New Eden is harsh ....be harsher . |
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Simple solution: no friendly fire in pub matches, friendly fire in the real game. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
379
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Posted - 2013.01.31 23:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
i have to say i really like the idea of marking team killers so everyone can see who they are, and also giving the team the option of denying them isk payments for matches, after all if they can't buy kit they're not going to last long |
Ghost-33
ShootBreakStab
108
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Posted - 2013.01.31 23:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:otherwise, griefers.
no joke here guys. an isk penalty is not enough, a warpoint penalty is not enough. i want teamkillers booted from the game outright. EDIT: maybe i should clarify this bit. i mean booted out of the MATCH right then and there, and prevented from rejoining matchmaking for some amount of time. not necessarily banned from the entirety of dust 514. this limits the amount of damage they can actually do. there could even be a "forgive" option for the victim.
it's free to play, there is literally no barrier to entry. any 15 y/o Codfan can hop on and troll. oh no he lost isk? oh no he has a reputation as a teamkiller? oh no he got no sp? why would a griefer care? the games free... psn IDs are free. he'll make a new one and do it again. they need to be mitigated right then and there.
this doesn't need to apply to corp battles, as i could see sneaking a backstabber into the enemy corp as part of the metagame, but it should apply to any game mode where the teams are not up to the participants.
What about Griefers that always stand in between you and your enemy? Oh man if this gets put into play I would make you "accidently" kill me just to get you out of my game... wait this isn't just "my" game.. Oh well.
No penaltys whatsoever for TK, very few would abuse it and when they do that is the time for all the people that play this game properly to turn on said griefer and make him suffer for even thinking of griefing. You wont be able to retaliate against griefers if rules are in place. Accidental TK's happen, its a sometimes funny and welcome part of an FPS. The people can police themselves in New Eden.
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Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
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Posted - 2013.01.31 23:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
gbghg wrote:i think the response to teamkillers should be player led, for example Shijima Kuraimaru said this Quote:TKing will have much higher risks than many believe. All these calls for penalties just shows me that many people lack critical thinking. When FF goes live and you get intentionally TKed, how about you just remember who it is so you can gank them whenever you see them or even, *gasp* dare I suggest it, offer a reward for confirmed TK kills against the person who Intentionally TKed you to a state of QQ. on this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55107&p=3 That may work in a game like EVE where there is an open world but in an fps where you placed into a tiny box by comparison, it can easily turn into a FFA cluster ****. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 23:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Had some noob try to ghost me last night with his LAV, but for some odd reason it only partially hurt me. Is there now degrees of damage done by being run over with LAV's?
As for how to deal with these turkeys, I'm not entirely sure. A vote to kick option is out the window for sure, as I could imagine envious teammates kicking those that are doing better than them (or perhaps they got dominated by that player in a previous match and want revenge).
I think the best solution would be to have a report system in game. If a person is reported x amount of time for being a griefer and the devs confirm it by checking the logs, then that person will have their IP permanently banned from the game. This way they can't just make another PSN account to do it all over again.
Plus if it's well known that people can be perma-banned by their IP from the game, then there is going to be a lot less that will do it just from that alone. da fuq you talking about?
Why should someone get perma-banned over something like this, that hurts the community and CCP. |
Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
22
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Posted - 2013.02.01 00:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm guessing you have never or will ever get a orbital strike based off of this? |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.02.01 00:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think the best defense against teamkillers is the knowledge that there are vindictive bastards like me, whom if killed in an expensive fit by randomb blueberry for the funzies, will hotdrop a madrugar onto the field with the intent of killing anything, and everything that moves, blue, red or any other color of the spectrum.
there' is the fun one where random blueberry nova knifes a expensive fit and then will come back on the forums complaining that his little joke resulted in an entire premade squad hunting him down on the field over and over again in addition to the enemy.
this is a self-correcting problem, generally, and if someone exploits it to turn things into a FFA they'll become rapidly well known. (making alts solely for the point of doing this and recycling them to make new grief alts is a bannable offense)
And if you are a known TK, there's a high likelihood of as soon as you spawn, the blueberries turn and disintegrate you on sight.
And finally, CCP has stated that they have no intention of turning FFon for random pubmatches. If this changes we'll have plenty warning. And bluntly I don't care if pubmatches are carebear heaven.
Pubmatches aren't the matches that matter. at all. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2013.02.01 00:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:otherwise, griefers.
no joke here guys. an isk penalty is not enough, a warpoint penalty is not enough. i want teamkillers booted from the game outright. EDIT: maybe i should clarify this bit. i mean booted out of the MATCH right then and there, and prevented from rejoining matchmaking for some amount of time. not necessarily banned from the entirety of dust 514. this limits the amount of damage they can actually do. there could even be a "forgive" option for the victim.
it's free to play, there is literally no barrier to entry. any 15 y/o Codfan can hop on and troll. oh no he lost isk? oh no he has a reputation as a teamkiller? oh no he got no sp? why would a griefer care? the games free... psn IDs are free. he'll make a new one and do it again. they need to be mitigated right then and there.
this doesn't need to apply to corp battles, as i could see sneaking a backstabber into the enemy corp as part of the metagame, but it should apply to any game mode where the teams are not up to the participants.
This is ridiculous. Accidents happen, and TK is a valid tactic and measure in some cases.
Dust doesn't and shouldn't and mustn't cater to carebears. |
SeeD A
Dust Garden
3
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Posted - 2013.02.01 00:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Just wanted to add something,
Why Should i lose a Dropsuit by a FF? Why not make him to lose 2-3 Dropsuits instead 1 of mine? |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
71
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Posted - 2013.02.01 01:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:otherwise, griefers.
no joke here guys. an isk penalty is not enough, a warpoint penalty is not enough. i want teamkillers booted from the game outright. EDIT: maybe i should clarify this bit. i mean booted out of the MATCH right then and there, and prevented from rejoining matchmaking for some amount of time. not necessarily banned from the entirety of dust 514. this limits the amount of damage they can actually do. there could even be a "forgive" option for the victim.
it's free to play, there is literally no barrier to entry. any 15 y/o Codfan can hop on and troll. oh no he lost isk? oh no he has a reputation as a teamkiller? oh no he got no sp? why would a griefer care? the games free... psn IDs are free. he'll make a new one and do it again. they need to be mitigated right then and there.
this doesn't need to apply to corp battles, as i could see sneaking a backstabber into the enemy corp as part of the metagame, but it should apply to any game mode where the teams are not up to the participants.
Oh, my dear Buzz, this is the game....this is New Eden.
However, there is some merit to your editing. Griefing should be perfectly acceptable in any situation, just as it is in Eve, but there is truth in the appropriation of a proper consequence for this. While I expect future reputation mechanic to have a lot to do with this, I would also suspect this same mechanic to be the distinction between high-value contracts and PvE and low-value things. However, the ability to gank should not be diminished in this, nor should it be altogether thrown out...it should just come at a price:
SUGGESTION and COUNTERARGUMENT:
1st Idea: Rather than forcibly kicking gankers and griefers out the games, make them pay for it handsomely. Say you team-kill in a Caldari NPC/High-Sec match...That action costs you standing and if you do it often enough you will be blocked from trade/contract in their Faction (without neccessarily improving your standing with others) whlie also being labeled as a team-killer.
2nd Idea: If you are a team killer who joins a corp match as you cannot join regular matches, but can get through with a the corp (theoretical), the enemies gain some loyalty points in killing you...This has potential to be abused, but if set at the right rates, it could be interesting. Furthermore, allowing for players to set bounties similar to the Eve Online system, you provide the incentive to retaliate against these players (give their tags a star for the level of bounty...1-50k/kill = 1 star, 50-100k/kill = 2 stars, ... etc.)
Finally, you can leave options for team-killers to redeem themselves either by grinding loyalty with very little return for long amounts of time...or even better allowing them to pay in Aurum for a "clean slate" and allowing that to be used once every 20 days or so.
All in all, got to remember that this is going to be a brutal game, and while I am all for certain safety nets to allow for universal retaliation in a game construct, we have to keep in mind that we want pirates and renegades in the very colorful world of New Eden. We want all the flavors, even if we hate them for it |
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