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Illendar Cortharis
Digital Mercs
0
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
James-5955 wrote:
I asked why it's an issue because if they were team oriented players it wouldn't be an issue. Ambush is just a flawed mode if you're looking to be organized, it's TDM, the spawns are random unless you drop an uplink. If you want to really work as a team then you should be playing skirmish, IMHO.
There's no flaw in Ambush, it's in the players. The concept is pretty simple, make the other team spawn in more than you. The concept stands as don't die. And if you do die, don't respawn, bleed out while waiting for a medic.
But twitchy shooters have caused people to forget how to wait. INSTANT ACTION, ALL THE TIME. There have been countless times where I've run to a downed team member (on my squad or not) only for them to re-spawn the nanosecond I reach them.
Until the concept of 'you need medics' and 'you need to wait for medics' is ingrained in players heads, then things are going to keep going poorly. |
suzisage
Mercenaries on Demand
18
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
James-5955 wrote:
You're expecting teamwork from random players in FPS games. That is a big mistake.
It may be a mistake to expect teamwork from random people, but I don't see why I can't make comments on the lack of teamwork or ask the devs to encourage teamwork.
James-5955 wrote:I asked why it's an issue because if they were team oriented players it wouldn't be an issue. Ambush is just a flawed mode if you're looking to be organized, it's TDM, the spawns are random unless you drop an uplink. If you want to really work as a team then you should be playing skirmish, IMHO.
My corp members are team-players. However, they are not on all the time and not available at my beck and call. So if I'm going to play with randoms, I would like there to be incentives to cooperate.
Even in skirmish, there are players who just follow the instinct of "Kill everything that moves" instead of going for the objectives.
James-5955 wrote:As others have pointed out, there's more to come so just wait. Tough it out and get some more members, I'm glad to be in an active corp where there's always a squad to join.
I'm not expecting an immediate change, of course. And I hopefully I am helping the game by starting discussion on how to improve teamwork in the game. |
suzisage
Mercenaries on Demand
18
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Not getting curb stomped is good motivation.
Unfortunately, many people lack common-sense. It's a dreadful epidemic, really.
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suzisage
Mercenaries on Demand
18
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Posted - 2013.01.31 22:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
Illendar Cortharis wrote:
But twitchy shooters have caused people to forget how to wait. INSTANT ACTION, ALL THE TIME. There have been countless times where I've run to a downed team member (on my squad or not) only for them to re-spawn the nanosecond I reach them.
Until the concept of 'you need medics' and 'you need to wait for medics' is ingrained in players heads, then things are going to keep going poorly.
I have the same problem, and I think this is a sign that there is both a lack of willingness to cooperate and distrust even among players on the same team.
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
379
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Posted - 2013.01.31 23:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
suzisage wrote:Illendar Cortharis wrote:
But twitchy shooters have caused people to forget how to wait. INSTANT ACTION, ALL THE TIME. There have been countless times where I've run to a downed team member (on my squad or not) only for them to re-spawn the nanosecond I reach them.
Until the concept of 'you need medics' and 'you need to wait for medics' is ingrained in players heads, then things are going to keep going poorly.
I have the same problem, and I think this is a sign that there is both a lack of willingness to cooperate and distrust even among players on the same team. People are too used to games like cod where its "every man for himself"and their used to competing for kills. In my opinion the battlefield players are better because there everyone does a certain low level of teamwork, and on those rare instances where you find a team that just clicks they're nearly unstoppable. we just need to let people get used to the fact that if you want to do well you need to become adaptable and you have to rely on your team mates |
Ghost-33
ShootBreakStab
108
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Posted - 2013.02.01 00:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
I want brownies. Everytime I do something teamwork oriented and save a mate or rep him up or give him a lift I would like CCP to mail me a batch of warm delicious brownies. That would surely make teamwork more viable. |
Engineer X5
The Southern Legion
0
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Posted - 2013.02.01 01:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
IRuby Heart wrote:Travi Zyg wrote:I think everything about this game screams teamwork. ..if you need assistance understanding that or enforcing it then maybe its not for you. .. this isn't directed towards anyone specificl btw The game is designed for teamwork but nobody in pubs actually plays the game that way, it's everybody running and gunning lone wolf style or sniping behind the red line doing absolutely nothing. Nobody ever has a mic and no one proactively works with a squad.
Mic is really a non-issue if people have team work in mind, the problem is they don't |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.02.01 01:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
How to put this. CCP does not do linear forced gameplay normally. They prefer the sandbox method with a bunch of a sand and some walls in place. Anything that happens generally goes within reason. Since it's a CCP product, and not Sony or some other company then the game is going to be designed around giving players the tools to do things with. Corp building and managing is one of them. So they're not going to make gameplay that forces players to actually work as a team. The design of the game encourages it, but it's not going to be forced. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.02.01 03:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
suzisage wrote:I will admit I have not used squad commands. But do players get any war points for following squad commands? Because most players seem to reside with the idea of "Kill the enemy until there's no more enemy to kill."
I play Artificier most of the time, so I am always looking for guys to revive and heal. However, I rarely see anyone doing the same, and I've only been revived one time ever (and was shortly killed afterwards because the medic didn't clear the area).
I know how to play cooperatively, but there seems to be a lack of willingness from many to cooperate. I notice that nobody answered this yet.
Yes. And more than that, the Squad Leader gets a bonus too.
If I set a defend order on a squadmate, any squadmate who performs any WP-earning action near the marker (including the marked player) gets a 20% bonus. If the player isn't near the marker, but kills an enemy who is, that counts. I know Nanohives near a Defend order earn you bonus WP, but I don't know if you get bonus WP for a distant Nanohive while you're near the marker.
In addition, the same 20% of all WPs earned by squad members near the marker is awarded as "Commission" to the Squad Leader who set the order.
It provides incentives for squad leaders to set orders as well as incentive for squad members to follow them. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2013.02.01 03:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
teamwork cant be forced by the game. Its the people who need to have the will to work as a team. Dont ask what the team can do for you. You should ask yourself what you can do for the team instead. If you have the cod mentality (i dont need a team, im a beast) then stop playing right now. Lonewolfing wont get you anywhere on this game. |
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Vanda-Kon
Feast On Skulls
66
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Posted - 2013.02.01 03:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
suzisage wrote:Vanda-Kon wrote:i am the biggest lone wolf team player there is..... that said, non team players may not have experienced team rewards in real life. this transfer is a big ask. goes for all team shooters. you will be frustrated. unless you join a select few of maniacal mofos. I fail to see how sticking together and watching each others' backs is "a big ask." I've logged about 500 hours on Battlefield 3, and although there wasn't teamwork all the time, there was a general level of cooperation that I've come to expect, and Dust 514 so far does not meet that standard. If this is how the game will continue to be, fine, I will go back to BF3. But don't expect CCP to be happy about losing a customer.
it's a big ask because some people don't think that way, even though they should. It's just not in their mental framework, for whatever reason.
I recently saw a guy on a turret outside a three letter map that had walls between him and anything he could shoot at. He was straight up firing missiles at the wallls of the complex, with no enemies in sight.
There is nothing the designers can do to persuade a player to realize his lack of effect on a game.
Besides, sticking together is overrated, so are the use of mics. A player who knows what is needed in a match just does them.
I can tell you this, I have done things alone in matches that have at the very least kept things balanced, or else there would be a redline all game. If I stuck with everybody else I would be funneled into a slaughter fest.
Not to mention, I"ve played BF3, enjoyed it, but signs of no teamwork were there too. Dust is not exclusive to this. Every team shooter I've ever played has shown signs of players acting without purpose.
The same way you think of what's best for the team, a non team player is thinking about something else just as much, unhelpful as it is. |
suzisage
Mercenaries on Demand
18
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Posted - 2013.02.01 19:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vanda-Kon wrote:it's a big ask because some people don't think that way, even though they should. It's just not in their mental framework, for whatever reason.
You make it sound like these people are sociopaths.
I can accept that people don't help team mates from the bottom of their hearts, but the fact remains that a team of players, random or in a corp, win together and lose together. Interdependence is reality, not an opinion.
Vanda-Kon wrote:Besides, sticking together is overrated, so are the use of mics.
I'm extremely joyful that you're not a developer.
Octavian Vetiver wrote:How to put this. CCP does not do linear forced gameplay normally. They prefer the sandbox method with a bunch of a sand and some walls in place. Anything that happens generally goes within reason. Since it's a CCP product, and not Sony or some other company then the game is going to be designed around giving players the tools to do things with. Corp building and managing is one of them. So they're not going to make gameplay that forces players to actually work as a team. The design of the game encourages it, but it's not going to be forced.
The dark cloud wrote:teamwork cant be forced by the game. Its the people who need to have the will to work as a team. Dont ask what the team can do for you. You should ask yourself what you can do for the team instead. If you have the cod mentality (i dont need a team, im a beast) then stop playing right now. Lonewolfing wont get you anywhere on this game.
I'm not saying people should be forced to work together. I am saying that teamwork should be encouraged and rewarded, because as it stands now I think there is a lack of teamwork and incentives for it. |
Pays 2 Win
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
102
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Posted - 2013.02.01 19:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Always remember there is no I in TEAM. But there is an M and an E which means ME. So make sure you take care of you and yourself only otherwise TEAM will end up being MEAT!
PS: This phrase is copyright by Pays 2 Win and all his/her other alts |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.02.01 19:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reasons why a pre-built squad of 4 will do better than 4 individuals in Dust...
1. Voice comms. They'll have it sorted before they join the game. Even if someone doesn't have a mic, the squad will know and allow for it.
2. Logistics. The squad will quite possibly have a logi who will rep them, provide ammo, and revive them if they die.
3. Squad orders. The squad will see a very visible indicator of what to attack or defend.
4. Squad leader bonus. The squad leader will get extra war points.
5. Focussed fire and all-or-nothing DPS. The 4 randoms will spread their fire, taking down shields on multiple targets while not reducing incoming DPS. The squad will focus on one target at a time, killing him quickly and removing his weapon from the field.
6. Balanced squad composition. A pre-built squad can have suits/equipment/weapons that complement each other.
There are probably loads more, but that will do to start with. |
suzisage
Mercenaries on Demand
18
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Posted - 2013.02.01 19:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pays 2 Win wrote:Always remember there is no I in TEAM. But there is an M and an E which means ME. So make sure you take care of you and yourself only otherwise TEAM will end up being MEAT! PS: This phrase is copyright by Pays 2 Win and all his/her other alts
Ahhh, but E comes before M, spelling "EM", which is short for THEM, meaning working with THEM as a TEAM is still important. |
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