DUST Search - Quiet Scout Nerf V2- Why are Scouts so slow now?

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

Oxskull Duncarino wrote:

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

SoTa PoP wrote:

If I understood right - they did it because of the mods would make scouts insane in speed. they had to tone it down and pick a speed that scaled better.

I don't recall seing any mods that improve walking (ie. non-sprinting) speed. Are they planned? Running in combat is not really an option unless you need to dart to cover. Skills/mods improving walking and especially strafing speed would be very welcome.

For scouts, running /sprinting in combat is very much important. When approaching a target from the blindside, a fast sprint in and shotgun blast to the head followed by a sprint back to cover is the only way those tinfoil suits will survive combat.
The more important part of sprinting in combat for scouts is the sprinting for cover you mentioned. If spotted, being able to hit high speed is their life.

I'm a shotgun scout, and I never ever approach someone sprinting. Sprinting increases your profile (by 10 units AFAIK) and that can be the difference between an ambush and a suicide - and it takes a while to go from sprinting to shooting. The only time I use sprint is over open terrain, when I'm far behind enemy lines, and when I get ambushed myself.

I'll take boost in non-sprinting speed and/or strafing speed any time over boost in sprinting speed.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 22:01:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously 5.6 normal 7.8 sprint... When an assault moves at 5.0 and sprints at 7.0 It felt as though something was amiss after revisiting this dropsuit. When and why did this get changed? its not here, or here... Any one know where i can find a patch note that can elaborate on the point? Also i think this now has an answer.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.24 22:03:00 - [2] - Quote That's always been the speed hasn't it? One issue I have is the mobility skill does not increase movement speed
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 22:27:00 - [3] - Quote crazy space 2100046106 wrote: That's always been the speed hasn't it? One issue I have is the mobility skill does not increase movement speed Mobility would then effect all drop suits equally. (that would be a good skill and I'm not complaining about the idea but for the purpose this thread it solves nothing.) The scout is supposed to have thin pools of shield, and armor in exchange for utility gained by speed and stealth. Now all you have is a much weaker slightly faster assault who can regenerate that thin pool a second sooner. And no, a few builds back i remember my alts uplink fit with a Complex Kenetic Catalyzer topping out at 12.1m/s and now even that is 12% instead of 25%
FatalFlaw V1 ISK Faucet Industries 76	Posted - 2013.01.24 22:31:00 - [4] - Quote People complained about scouts being too difficult (for them) to track/hit and it was nerfed a long time ago. They used to be much faster. They have not even a fraction of the mobility advantage they used to, so in almost all cases you are better off using a type 2 assault suit.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.01.24 22:35:00 - [5] - Quote FatalFlaw V1 wrote: People complained about scouts being too difficult (for them) to track/hit and it was nerfed a long time ago. They used to be much faster. They have not even a fraction of the mobility advantage they used to, so in almost all cases you are better off using a type 2 assault suit. A lot of that was from the poor hit detection instead of their speed, too. Nerfing the strafe speed and fixing most of the HD issues just wrecked them.
Mirana Cheshire Forgotten Militia 20	Posted - 2013.01.24 22:54:00 - [6] - Quote Volgair wrote: Seriously 5.6 normal 7.8 sprint... When an assault moves at 5.0 and sprints at 7.0 It felt as though something was amiss after revisiting this dropsuit. When and why did this get changed? its not here, or here... Any one know where i can find a patch note that can elaborate on the point? Also i think this now has an answer. in reference to this people do seem to forget what the scout role is supposed to do like people forgetting that recons in BF3 is supposed to gather intel and spot enemies for dust, if you fight head on with the scout you are surely going to have a bad time winning the gun fight, but if you flank the enemy and strike hard and fast, they wont even notice you were there until it is too late go around the enemy, go deep into the enemy lines to hack objectives, place spawn beacons, not fight a heavy face to face and expect to win and now for the speed itself, while it does seem like you only get a small amount of speed, the scout suit is not easily detected on radar and thus you can easily slip by enemies that are not paying attention in a gunfight it could use a bit of a speed buff, but not too much
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:00:00 - [7] - Quote One thing I can say, DO NOT put Armor on a scout suit, it completely f***s it up. Also, it's fast enough to 2 v 1 with some cover nearby, and maybe 3 v 1 if inside a CQC building.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:07:00 - [8] - Quote I run a shottie scout. I wouldn't say no to a modest non-sprinting speed boost, but it's quite fine if you know what you're doing. Don't engage the enemy head-on, and use stealth and agility to your advantage. If it's a fair fight, you're doing it wrong. You're not a rambo and your armor is made of paper. Then again, I just had a 21/12 Skirmish, and I'm not even a great FPS player.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:15:00 - [9] - Quote FatalFlaw V1 wrote: People complained about scouts being too difficult (for them) to track/hit and it was nerfed a long time ago. They used to be much faster. They have not even a fraction of the mobility advantage they used to, so in almost all cases you are better off using a type 2 assault suit. Which is fugging rtarded lets say you make a shield tanked type B with 3 complex shield extenders, a basic armor rep, and a Complex Kinetic Catalyzer. (Yes that would require you to sacrifice a bit on weapons and equipment.) So you would then have an Assault running about with 528 Shield 131 Armor for 659EHP at level 5 Shield Management and Field Mechanics. that suit would be able to move at 5.1m/s and Sprint at 7.95m/s. Now, we look at a Scout Type A. 2 complex shield extenders basic armor rep and a Complex Kinetic Catalyzer. 290 Shield and 112 Armor that's 402EHP, moving at 5.6m/s and sprinting at 8.73m/s. Scan profile be damed the current speed fails to make up for the disparity erring on the side of an apparent bias.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:21:00 - [10] - Quote Mirana Cheshire wrote: Volgair wrote: Seriously 5.6 normal 7.8 sprint... When an assault moves at 5.0 and sprints at 7.0 It felt as though something was amiss after revisiting this dropsuit. When and why did this get changed? its not here, or here... Any one know where i can find a patch note that can elaborate on the point? Also i think this now has an answer. in reference to this people do seem to forget what the scout role is supposed to do like people forgetting that recons in BF3 is supposed to gather intel and spot enemies for dust, if you fight head on with the scout you are surely going to have a bad time winning the gun fight, but if you flank the enemy and strike hard and fast, they wont even notice you were there until it is too late go around the enemy, go deep into the enemy lines to hack objectives, place spawn beacons, not fight a heavy face to face and expect to win and now for the speed itself, while it does seem like you only get a small amount of speed, the scout suit is not easily detected on radar and thus you can easily slip by enemies that are not paying attention in a gunfight it could use a bit of a speed buff, but not too much the same profile dampening skills on an assault serves a purpose to a similar effect.

Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:24:00 - [11] - Quote Volgair wrote: the same profile dampening skills on an assault serves a purpose to a similar effect. But Assault has higher native profile than Scout suits, so a Scout will have better stealth with similar skill level.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:46:00 - [12] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Volgair wrote: the same profile dampening skills on an assault serves a purpose to a similar effect. But Assault has higher native profile than Scout suits, so a Scout will have better stealth with similar skill level. Here are some numbers for you. Scout Scan Profile-45db Assault Scan Profile- 50db Dropsuit Command -5% Scan Profile/level Profile Dampening- -5% Scan Profile/level -----------------------------BASE------COM.------P.D. Scout Scan Profile- 45db --> 33.75 --> 25.31 Assault Scan Profile- 50db --> 37.5 ---> 28.125 Scout Scan Precision- 45db Assault Scan precision- 55db Profile Analysis -5% Scan Precision/level -----------------------------BASE------P.A. Scout Scan Profile- 45db --> 33.75 Assault Scan Profile- 55db --> 41.25 So as an Assault with max skills you can easily sneak about like a Scout
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:31:00 - [13] - Quote i'm just about to rename this thread obvious problem is obvious...
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:35:00 - [14] - Quote I've seen some insanely fast scouts, do higher tier drop suits have faster movement speed?
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:36:00 - [15] - Quote Volgair wrote: So as an Assault with max skills you can easily sneak about like a Scout To a certain extent, yes. But at that skill level you're also fighting enemy teams which have scouts specifically skilled at spotting enemies, and Assault will always have larger profile than a similarly skilled Scout. After I have maxed out my profile reduction skills, I'm skilling up my scanning skills for that exact reason, and making at least one fit to function as a spotter for my team.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:39:00 - [16] - Quote Volgair wrote: crazy space 2100046106 wrote: That's always been the speed hasn't it? One issue I have is the mobility skill does not increase movement speed Mobility would then effect all drop suits equally. (that would be a good skill and I'm not complaining about the idea but for the purpose this thread it solves nothing.) The scout is supposed to have thin pools of shield, and armor in exchange for utility gained by speed and stealth. Now all you have is a much weaker slightly faster assault who can regenerate that thin pool a second sooner. And no, a few builds back i remember my alts uplink fit with a Complex Kenetic Catalyzer topping out at 12.1m/s and now even that is 12% instead of 25% Mobility would be % based. So scouts would get more speed boost, but I can only get to 9.2 with enchanced, it'll be a while before I can use 2 complex speed mods on a suit. Need more power grid/cpu I do agree that he needs more sprint speed at least even if base speed stays the same. On the other hand, I wan the minmatar scout to be the fastest scout suit : 3
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:40:00 - [17] - Quote James-5955 wrote: I've seen some insanely fast scouts, do higher tier drop suits have faster movement speed? Nah, just more slots to put in more speed mods! Then again for some reason the type 2 logi does get more speed as it goes up. So I don't know what's up with that.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:46:00 - [18] - Quote James-5955 wrote: I've seen some insanely fast scouts, do higher tier drop suits have faster movement speed? No, the shield variant move faster by .1 m/s then the armor variant. that's the only real improvement speed wise. The Assault shield variant gets a 1 increase as well.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.25 05:53:00 - [19] - Quote I don't see many Scouts those I do see melt under my HMG(main) or AR (alt) those that i don't see get a few hit's i turn about then they die as well. Speaking with scout playing corp members. They only have 3 options for weapons. Shotgun, Sniper Rifle and Mass Driver... Yes, they can equip every other weapon that fits into the large weapon slot, and even succeed at getting fairly regular kills, but the scout can only take about 4 seconds of consistent AR or HMG fire which is about the same as an assault starting the fight with 1/3 shield and full armor. Meaning that to expect any thing greater then a 2 to 1 KDR you need to use the burst damage high-risk high-reward weapons. Because. Simply stated, the inadequate EHP fails you by keeping you from prolonged engagement. Now you cant even disengage and open space by way of superior speed that is supposed to have defined the class. And just to be clear the grossly inadequate tank is not the issue. (Though it would be nice if they returned the base shield HP to 135) Its the running, strafing and sprinting speed that needs to be returned.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1904	Posted - 2013.01.25 06:03:00 - [20] - Quote I still raaaaaaaape in my militia shotgun scout fit, mobility really isn't much of an issue at all. The difference may seem small, but the ability to jump very high and far is priceless to me. I can't count to the amount of times I've launched over cover, killed a red in midair, then just landed and darted away. Shotgun scouts are where it's at, and the eat heavies alive if you approach correctly.

SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.25 06:05:00 - [21] - Quote If I understood right - they did it because of the mods would make scouts insane in speed. they had to tone it down and pick a speed that scaled better.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.25 10:57:00 - [22] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: If I understood right - they did it because of the mods would make scouts insane in speed. they had to tone it down and pick a speed that scaled better. I don't recall seing any mods that improve walking (ie. non-sprinting) speed. Are they planned? Running in combat is not really an option unless you need to dart to cover. Skills/mods improving walking and especially strafing speed would be very welcome.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.01.26 14:44:00 - [23] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: If I understood right - they did it because of the mods would make scouts insane in speed. they had to tone it down and pick a speed that scaled better. I don't recall seing any mods that improve walking (ie. non-sprinting) speed. Are they planned? Running in combat is not really an option unless you need to dart to cover. Skills/mods improving walking and especially strafing speed would be very welcome. For scouts, running /sprinting in combat is very much important. When approaching a target from the blindside, a fast sprint in and shotgun blast to the head followed by a sprint back to cover is the only way those tinfoil suits will survive combat. The more important part of sprinting in combat for scouts is the sprinting for cover you mentioned. If spotted, being able to hit high speed is their life.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 324	Posted - 2013.01.26 14:52:00 - [24] - Quote I have a very low skilled scout alt and not only is he fun as hell to play, but I still end up near the top of the scoreboard a lot of the time. I mostly use a militia AR on him, though I've started using a militia shotgun as well. You have a gigantic pool of stamina...that's your biggest advantage. When the other guys are huffing and puffing you're just getting warmed up. This suit totally fails on open ground, you need an area with lots of cover and railings etc. Find out where the blobs of enemies are and what direction they're looking / shooting and come in from the side / behind. Kill one or two of them, then when they turn around go wolololo and jump over something that gives you cover then run like hell and do it again. Seriously, it's like being batman.
pink FLUFF Immobile Infantry 3	Posted - 2013.01.26 15:22:00 - [25] - Quote Volgair wrote: Seriously 5.6 normal 7.8 sprint... When an assault moves at 5.0 and sprints at 7.0 It felt as though something was amiss after revisiting this dropsuit. When and why did this get changed? its not here, or here... Any one know where i can find a patch note that can elaborate on the point? Also i think this now has an answer. best thing about this... Look at the vk.1 logi suit 5.3 speed 7.4 sprint ;D
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.26 15:47:00 - [26] - Quote I have a friend who pretty much broke games one build with a speed-focused Scout...he was so fast it lagged the entire match out. I have a feeling that does have something to do with tuning the speeds... However, which build specifically are you referencing that had faster scouts? Last build the Scout had the same stats as this build, so its not that one. The build before, maybe?
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.26 16:08:00 - [27] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: If I understood right - they did it because of the mods would make scouts insane in speed. they had to tone it down and pick a speed that scaled better. I don't recall seing any mods that improve walking (ie. non-sprinting) speed. Are they planned? Running in combat is not really an option unless you need to dart to cover. Skills/mods improving walking and especially strafing speed would be very welcome. For scouts, running /sprinting in combat is very much important. When approaching a target from the blindside, a fast sprint in and shotgun blast to the head followed by a sprint back to cover is the only way those tinfoil suits will survive combat. The more important part of sprinting in combat for scouts is the sprinting for cover you mentioned. If spotted, being able to hit high speed is their life. I'm a shotgun scout, and I never ever approach someone sprinting. Sprinting increases your profile (by 10 units AFAIK) and that can be the difference between an ambush and a suicide - and it takes a while to go from sprinting to shooting. The only time I use sprint is over open terrain, when I'm far behind enemy lines, and when I get ambushed myself. I'll take boost in non-sprinting speed and/or strafing speed any time over boost in sprinting speed.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:03:00 - [28] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: If I understood right - they did it because of the mods would make scouts insane in speed. they had to tone it down and pick a speed that scaled better. I don't recall seing any mods that improve walking (ie. non-sprinting) speed. Are they planned? Running in combat is not really an option unless you need to dart to cover. Skills/mods improving walking and especially strafing speed would be very welcome. For scouts, running /sprinting in combat is very much important. When approaching a target from the blindside, a fast sprint in and shotgun blast to the head followed by a sprint back to cover is the only way those tinfoil suits will survive combat. The more important part of sprinting in combat for scouts is the sprinting for cover you mentioned. If spotted, being able to hit high speed is their life. I'm a shotgun scout, and I never ever approach someone sprinting. Sprinting increases your profile (by 10 units AFAIK) and that can be the difference between an ambush and a suicide - and it takes a while to go from sprinting to shooting. The only time I use sprint is over open terrain, when I'm far behind enemy lines, and when I get ambushed myself. I'll take boost in non-sprinting speed and/or strafing speed any time over boost in sprinting speed. I only use my shotgun scout now and again, so this view is only from an occasional user, but if I flank a tango and they are firing their weapons, I'll sprint that last 2-3m to one shot them. Using the sprint and breaking cover can be very effective when used right.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:43:00 - [29] - Quote Here is the biggest problem with slow scouts, its breaking the base dynamic of the classes. Heavy- Thick Armor and Big Guns. Moves slow. Assault- Heavy Armor, Large Guns. Moves at a medium pace. Logi- Heavy Armor, Lots of gear to improve combat effectiveness of Assaults and Heavy's. Moves at a medium pace. Scout- Light Armor, Easy to miss. (Assault is almost as easy to miss as scout with the same skills) Moves at a medium pace. (Only slightly faster then Assault.) The Dropsuits that are not yet in game. Crusader- (formerly Command) damage and utility enhancement. Pilot- Supposedly to improve the passive abilities of Vehicles. No stats exist beyond this.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:55:00 - [30] - Quote Scouts do need some significant buff in some aspect to give them an actual role. I see alot of people posting that they are good with snipers and shotguns when in actuality an assault suit fills those roles more effectively. A tanked assault suit with a shotgun devastates enemies and as a sniper it has far more flexibility than a scout could hope to match. Scouts need an identity and in comparison to the other suits they currently show nothing significant or that's useful through out the entire match.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page