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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
War Points. KDR is a sub element of war points, it doesn't accurately represent all battlefield roles and KDR is a somewhat flawed mechanic even when considering the impact of kills vs death as it does not account for ISK loss inflected vs ISK loss taken. Until the metrics deepen KDR does not meaningfully represent effects or events within Dust.
0.02 ISK Cross |
DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
254
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
VulvaOfTheYeast wrote:Why would K/D ratio be important to anybody? (Well, aside from 15 year old Call of Duty and Battlefield players that think it actually means something.)
Case in point: The better player is the one with 10,000 kills and 5,000 deaths. Not the one with 100 kills and 1 death. Regardless of WP earned by either. Sorry children. Not true if they are both playing the same role. In this case infantry. (Kd with sniper or tanks don't count as actual kd because no skill )
Player 2 (100 kills) just started so he doesn't have as many kills as player 1 (10,000 kills) but is clearly the better player if they play the same role. |
zeek1227 zeek1227
Blitzkrieg Co.
146
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I don't really pay much attention to either.
Both are far too easy to manipulate, though WP specifically. If I see someone with a massive WP pool, my first and only thought is "booster" I would agree if its 3000 or up but I get 2000 +on a regular basis without boosting so I don't doubt others can to |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:VulvaOfTheYeast wrote:Why would K/D ratio be important to anybody? (Well, aside from 15 year old Call of Duty and Battlefield players that think it actually means something.)
Case in point: The better player is the one with 10,000 kills and 5,000 deaths. Not the one with 100 kills and 1 death. Regardless of WP earned by either. Sorry children. Not true if they are both playing the same role. In this case infantry. (Kd with sniper or tanks don't count as actual kd because no skill ) Player 2 (100 kills) just started so he doesn't have as many kills as player 1 (10,000 kills) but is clearly the better player if they play the same role.
Even then it's not an accurate stat to reflect value/impact. Dropships being mobile, all Logis, hacking, overwatch and uplinks are all totally overlooked by KDR and often swing entire battles.
Player 3 has has 5,000 kills and 15,000 deaths, but is a Logi and has 3 times as many WP as either player 1 or 2. Player 3 is clearly contributing more to the team than either players 1 or 2.
(Note: any stat can be bent or made inaccurate, but some suffer from it more than others. KDR is one of those that is very easy to twist.)
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DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
254
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Posted - 2013.02.02 01:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:VulvaOfTheYeast wrote:Why would K/D ratio be important to anybody? (Well, aside from 15 year old Call of Duty and Battlefield players that think it actually means something.)
Case in point: The better player is the one with 10,000 kills and 5,000 deaths. Not the one with 100 kills and 1 death. Regardless of WP earned by either. Sorry children. Not true if they are both playing the same role. In this case infantry. (Kd with sniper or tanks don't count as actual kd because no skill ) Player 2 (100 kills) just started so he doesn't have as many kills as player 1 (10,000 kills) but is clearly the better player if they play the same role. Even then it's not an accurate stat to reflect value/impact. Dropships being mobile, all Logis, hacking, overwatch and uplinks are all totally overlooked by KDR and often swing entire battles. Player 3 has has 5,000 kills and 15,000 deaths, but is a Logi and has 3 times as many WP as either player 1 or 2. Player 3 is clearly contributing more to the team than either players 1 or 2. (Note: any stat can be bent or made inaccurate, but some suffer from it more than others. KDR is one of those that is very easy to twist.) Which is why I stated if they have the same role. Logi canot be compared to other infantry whose role is to kill.
For logis... WP/D would be their ratio to see whose better. For infantry whose role is to kill... K/d is there
Edit 1: The term "Better Player" is hard to define. To many it defines who contributed the most in the match(hacked obj and stuff) to others its who ever killed the most and had less deaths |
Warchild Draconis
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.02.02 01:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
From what Ive seen caring about stats makes players much worse and hurts the game overall. Its the reason people let objects get hacked so they can get more points turning it back. Its the reason half your team is behind the redline sniping to protect thier k/d. Its the reason your team drops out the moment the other team gets an early lead. Before stat tracking everyone played to win and have fun, and the term "rage quit" didn't exist.
A good player is someone who tries to learn and improve, knows how to communicate, and doesnt take the game so seriously the their yelling obscenities 90% of the time. |
Booby Tuesdays
THE DOLLARS
13
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Posted - 2013.02.02 03:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Warchild Draconis wrote: From what Ive seen caring about stats makes players much worse and hurts the game overall. Its the reason people let objects get hacked so they can get more points turning it back. Its the reason half your team is behind the redline sniping to protect thier k/d. Its the reason your team drops out the moment the other team gets an early lead. Before stat tracking everyone played to win and have fun, and the term "rage quit" didn't exist.
A good player is someone who tries to learn and improve, knows how to communicate, and doesnt take the game so seriously the their yelling obscenities 90% of the time.
It is a bummer to see this going on, but it's an FPS after all so it's sort of expected. To stay on topic, I would say that WP matter more to me since I'm a Logi and I'll prolly never have a great K/D ratio. I'm more concerned with the three R's and helping my team win. |
WASTED MERC
The Southern Legion
4
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Posted - 2013.02.02 14:43:00 -
[68] - Quote
i play for sp, wp get me no where |
Mark Smith Jr
Outer Haven Patriots
17
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Posted - 2013.02.02 14:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
WP, but at the end of the day its all about having fun for me |
Peter Hanther
Dead Six Initiative
39
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Posted - 2013.02.02 16:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I don't really pay much attention to either.
Both are far too easy to manipulate, though WP specifically. If I see someone with a massive WP pool, my first and only thought is "booster"
boosters do not increase you WP gain. Only your SP gain. Not the same thing at all |
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Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.02.02 18:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
G Sacred wrote:The title says it all. My friend and I have been going back and forth about which is more important. Obviously they both have a role in the game.
If you see someone with 50,000 WP but 25 Kills and 3 Deaths, you know they are boosting. Personally I believe WP are more important than your K/D ratio. WP reflect how much of a team player you are. (this is assuming you are not boosting) If you are running around, hacking objectives, reviving/healing people, giving them ammo, and killing when you get the chance, your going to end up with a kitten ton of WP.
This shows that you are trying to win the match by helping your team. My friend (who I'm not going to name for the sake of saving him hate mail) believes that your K/D ratio represents the same thing, that being how much you help your team. He is a tank driver (now some people know who he is) and focuses on killing as many people as he can.
I told him that doing so is great if your defending an objective, but he refuted my point by stating he is aggressive with his tank and moves in to clear out an objective. Both roles are needed in a match otherwise you wouldn't be able to win. We have, in the friendliest way possible, called each other point-whores(me) and kill-whores(him). So I turn to all of you to hear your opinion. Which is more important in a match, brute force or teamwork? Discuss.
editing ftw
Now that I can read it without the need to separate it into paragraphs, I'd have to say both are equally important as a measure of player effectiveness. Obviously, and Assault player is not going to generate WPs without affecting his KDR at least the majority of the time.
The reason, is that Assault players simply spend the majority of their time killing enemies. While they may achieve some additional WP for hacking objectives, it is not going to be as relevant as their take-down ability. The same might be said for Heavies; possibly even to a greater or lesser degree, dependent on their weapon of choice.
Logistics will generate massive WPs and get fewer kills overall than the other roles, (currently), so for them, WPs is the more effective means of showing worth. Scouts will be dependent on their chosen role, much like Heavies are. A Sniper is a KDR machine, where a Knifer is probably going to be more likely to focus on generating WPs as it isn't a particularly effective means of increasing KDR.
So, it depends. Neither is a good measure in itself, but together they might be. |
VulvaOfTheYeast
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.02.02 20:16:00 -
[72] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:VulvaOfTheYeast wrote:Why would K/D ratio be important to anybody? (Well, aside from 15 year old Call of Duty and Battlefield players that think it actually means something.)
Case in point: The better player is the one with 10,000 kills and 5,000 deaths. Not the one with 100 kills and 1 death. Regardless of WP earned by either. Sorry children. Not true if they are both playing the same role. In this case infantry. (Kd with sniper or tanks don't count as actual kd because no skill ) Player 2 (100 kills) just started so he doesn't have as many kills as player 1 (10,000 kills) but is clearly the better player if they play the same role.
Too many assumptions you make.
Also, in terms of a Leaderboard structure, moot. Think of it in terms of a Racing game. If the player at the top of the leaderboard has 5,000 wins in 10,000 races, and "Player 2" has 9 wins in 10 races, sorry, but Player 2 has a LONG way to go to claim bragging rights. |
Tregar Kerrigan
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.02.02 21:38:00 -
[73] - Quote
From what I am reading, it really depends on what you're doing. As a logi, I couldn't care less about my KDR, and almost all of my WP come from keeping my team alive and fighting. It all depends on your role, and if you were actually useful. Heavies are a good example of where KDR is a useful metric, because heavies spend almost all of their time assaulting or defending objectives. As an assault you should be killing and capping in equal measures, because of your good firepower and mobility. Logi are of course looking to get as much WP from triage and GOOD revives as possible. If they farm for their WP, it means much less. Snipers, or as I prefer to call them designated marksmen, should be graded FIRST on their communication, and then on their KDR. |
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