DUST Search - Win loss or Kd?

Vaerana Myshtana wrote:

Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:

All that matters is your kd.

Its a first person shooter, the objective is to kill people, if you are not doing that you are not being useful. No one cares how many people u revived or how much armor you repped or how many assists you got. In fact you want to have as few assists as possible, because an assist means that a teammate had to clean up the mess you made and used their ammo to get a kill you should have finished in the first place.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

Dust is not CoD or whatnot. People make this same mistake with EVE vs. WOW, etc.

The point in DUST is to win the battle at the lowest possible cost in ISK/AUR.

Think of it as Darwinian capitalist imperialism.

While KD is a part of that, it is not the end-all-and-be-all. If, for instance, Team B loses a skirmish battle like this:

Team A (50,000ISK Average Loadout)
- Crap Suits
- Crap Equipment
- Good Teamwork
- Good Ability
- 50 kills, 100 deaths

Team B (200,000ISK Average Loadout)
- Good Suits
- Good Equipment
- Crap Teamwork
- Good Ability
- 100 kills, 50 deaths

Then Team A lost 5,000,000 ISK and Team B lost 10,000,000 ISK (and the battle).

Right now, CCP is giving out pretty generous ISK payouts for battles. Based on the vision they've articulated, this may not always be the case. In EVE, the cost of winning is very much a part of how alliances rise and fall. Everything I've seen seems to suggest this is where they are headed with Dust.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
EnIgMa99 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 219	Posted - 2013.01.17 14:44:00 - [31] - Quote Betty-White Chipped You wrote: which one is more important to all corp members? i know some may say both but which one would come first to you the win with negative kd or the loss with possitive kd? both
EnIgMa99 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 219	Posted - 2013.01.17 14:46:00 - [32] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Betty-White Chipped You wrote: which one is more important to all corp members? i know some may say both but which one would come first to you the win with negative kd or the loss with possitive kd? None if ur talkin about pubgames only thing matters is ur W/L in corp matches the only other part I would add to this is by winning games by cloning the other team, but even then its about getting that shinny W
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.17 14:49:00 - [33] - Quote it's already been proven it's possible to have a high KDR and WLR in this game. Scrubs will always be worthless.
Vaerana Myshtana ScIdama Endless Renaissance 199	Posted - 2013.01.17 15:02:00 - [34] - Quote I think I have to side with the "personality first" argument. If you don't get along with these people, does it really matter if they can shoot well? On top of that, from what I've seen, it's the teams that cooperate well that win matches, get tons of WP, and get tons of kills. So I would argue that if the person(s) in question are fun and have a good team attitude, then their skill will eventually catch up. If they are complete Sanshaheads, then their skill as a player isn't likely to get any better- from your perspective. I also have to agree in general principle with the breakdown that Guinevere Bravo provided earlier. Different roles and play styles will reflect differently in scoring. Bear in mind, that in pub matches without a solid squad structure, someone may have to change roles repeatedly (scout to logi to AV to sniper to assault) to plug holes in the team. In such cases, the scoring will be an average of what GB talked about- probably an average-to-low KD, average-to-high WP. This is where W/L comes in. It's also why it's helpful to have people who can talk and organize a team's actions- which reminds me... I need to go buy a durned mic.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2013.01.17 15:16:00 - [35] - Quote The Win/Loss and KD mechanism is broken out here. The Win/Loss ratio should be like this;- Ambush Win/Loss Skirmish Win/Loss Corp Battles Win/Loss Tourney Win/Loss The KD should be like this;- Ambush KD Skirmish KD Corp Battles KD Tourney KD If more game modes are added if should fall into the same category.
Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 129	Posted - 2013.01.17 15:42:00 - [36] - Quote In this game it is how well you work in a team when SP and Equipment is equal. The teams that dominate have solid squads where members know their roles and execute their roles. This is why I joined DUST University, to train Blueberries in the importance of teamwork so that good/elite corps eventually recruit them and they stay in Dust and make our game stronger. There is no metric for that, you just have to squad with a player and learn how they view squading through their actions.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.01.17 17:32:00 - [37] - Quote how can you care about something that doesnt get tracked or am i not looking in the right place
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.01.17 17:36:00 - [38] - Quote WP per kill. It will show you how support oriented a player is. Closer to 50 it is the more 'kill obsessed' a player is. logins shouldn't be very close to 50 at all, while heavies should probably be closest. Also imagine yourself as an eve corp looking to contract a dust corp for planet takeover. I would think they would want the services of people who win rather than those who use less clones. Which just made me realize, the more players that spawn at uplinks the ore points your team gets. So in a way you can reduce the WP difference between teams if, when anyone dies they span at an uplink. So rather than one team getting 50pts and the other 0, the respawners can at least get 25 or 30. But I digress. You wouldn't want to hire a corp that looks like they 'avoid death' at the cost of winning.
Lunamaria Hawkeye SyNergy Gaming 92	Posted - 2013.01.17 18:21:00 - [39] - Quote All that matters is your kd. Its a first person shooter, the objective is to kill people, if you are not doing that you are not being useful. No one cares how many people u revived or how much armor you repped or how many assists you got. In fact you want to have as few assists as possible, because an assist means that a teammate had to clean up the mess you made and used their ammo to get a kill you should have finished in the first place.
Vaerana Myshtana ScIdama Endless Renaissance 199	Posted - 2013.01.17 18:34:00 - [40] - Quote Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote: All that matters is your kd. Its a first person shooter, the objective is to kill people, if you are not doing that you are not being useful. No one cares how many people u revived or how much armor you repped or how many assists you got. In fact you want to have as few assists as possible, because an assist means that a teammate had to clean up the mess you made and used their ammo to get a kill you should have finished in the first place. Sorry, but I have to disagree. Dust is not CoD or whatnot. People make this same mistake with EVE vs. WOW, etc. The point in DUST is to win the battle at the lowest possible cost in ISK/AUR. Think of it as Darwinian capitalist imperialism. While KD is a part of that, it is not the end-all-and-be-all. If, for instance, Team B loses a skirmish battle like this: Team A (50,000ISK Average Loadout) - Crap Suits - Crap Equipment - Good Teamwork - Good Ability - 50 kills, 100 deaths Team B (200,000ISK Average Loadout) - Good Suits - Good Equipment - Crap Teamwork - Good Ability - 100 kills, 50 deaths Then Team A lost 5,000,000 ISK and Team B lost 10,000,000 ISK (and the battle). Right now, CCP is giving out pretty generous ISK payouts for battles. Based on the vision they've articulated, this may not always be the case. In EVE, the cost of winning is very much a part of how alliances rise and fall. Everything I've seen seems to suggest this is where they are headed with Dust.

Lunamaria Hawkeye SyNergy Gaming 92	Posted - 2013.01.17 18:50:00 - [41] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote: All that matters is your kd. Its a first person shooter, the objective is to kill people, if you are not doing that you are not being useful. No one cares how many people u revived or how much armor you repped or how many assists you got. In fact you want to have as few assists as possible, because an assist means that a teammate had to clean up the mess you made and used their ammo to get a kill you should have finished in the first place. Sorry, but I have to disagree. Dust is not CoD or whatnot. People make this same mistake with EVE vs. WOW, etc. The point in DUST is to win the battle at the lowest possible cost in ISK/AUR. Think of it as Darwinian capitalist imperialism. While KD is a part of that, it is not the end-all-and-be-all. If, for instance, Team B loses a skirmish battle like this: Team A (50,000ISK Average Loadout) - Crap Suits - Crap Equipment - Good Teamwork - Good Ability - 50 kills, 100 deaths Team B (200,000ISK Average Loadout) - Good Suits - Good Equipment - Crap Teamwork - Good Ability - 100 kills, 50 deaths Then Team A lost 5,000,000 ISK and Team B lost 10,000,000 ISK (and the battle). Right now, CCP is giving out pretty generous ISK payouts for battles. Based on the vision they've articulated, this may not always be the case. In EVE, the cost of winning is very much a part of how alliances rise and fall. Everything I've seen seems to suggest this is where they are headed with Dust. You are so very wrong. Anyone can create a hypothetical situation where a team gets owned and everyone has a negative kd but they still win. This is a common fallacy among people who don't understand the importance of kdr. The truth of the matter is, this hypothetical situation doesnt happen. If you have half as many kills as the enemy team, odds are, you are getting spawn camped, because you didn't cap any objectives, because ur team sucks. If you can't kill people defending objectives, you don't capture the objectives, and you get spawn camped.
Cyn Bruin Imperfects Negative-Feedback 651	Posted - 2013.01.17 19:20:00 - [42] - Quote WINNING is everything. Doesn't matter what it is: Public, Mercenary, Corporation battles, 1v1 gun battle. It's all about the W. If you WIN, all those stats take care of themselves.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2013.01.17 19:46:00 - [43] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: WINNING is everything. Doesn't matter what it is: Public, Mercenary, Corporation battles, 1v1 gun battle. It's all about the W. If you WIN, all those stats take care of themselves. Wins without the game mode information is meaningless. For example in ambush where the game objective is depletion of clones all you need to do is take control of an elavated position with a couple of droplinks and the game is yours. The same tactic does not apply in Skirmish. Gaining hte higher ground doesnt relay guarantee a win. Tact and equipment awaremess plays a greater role here. Tact could also include taking control of an elevated position. The same applies for Corp battles or null sec/low sec battles. The tactic and mentallity change. For example in some pub matches people just get into it for the fun of it. My alt runs around with a shotgun just for ***** and giggles. I am not in it FTW but FTF. The level of seriousness of the gamer and the equipment they use differ with the game modes they play. And thats why separate statistics by game mode are required. There are also usefulness of a player/corp that needs to be calculated which is generally a fuction of the WL/KD/WP and SP. This can be further detailed by weapon/vehicle based stats. If we look at the Eve stats and compare it to the Dust stats there are various factors used there. TLDR: Dust stats are fuked up
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.01.17 19:49:00 - [44] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: TLDR: Dust stats are fuked up Pretty much this through and through... while you can make a good argument that stats are a good way to evaluate trending (this team wins more than that)... there are so many exotic variables in play that it makes it difficult. The only constant is that everyone has to deal with the same variables.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2013.01.17 20:00:00 - [45] - Quote fahrenheitM wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: TLDR: Dust stats are fuked up Pretty much this through and through... while you can make a good argument that stats are a good way to evaluate trending (this team wins more than that)... there are so many exotic variables in play that it makes it difficult. The only constant is that everyone has to deal with the same variables. True dat! Thats why the only 2 things I am focusing right now is to get my proto suit and proto weapon.
Tibolin Wargan HavoK Core 12	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:00:00 - [46] - Quote I am experimenting with different roles, trying logistics right now... yeah it's all about the KDR... until you get shot, then you wish the logistic guy with average-low KRD revives you.
Betty-White Chipped You Doomheim 2	Posted - 2013.01.20 16:17:00 - [47] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: it's already been proven it's possible to have a high KDR and WLR in this game. Scrubs will always be worthless. lol im not saying i did this solo because i didnt no my corp isnt in the top ten like 843 mentioned to me and then called us scrubs..lol at that but we managed to break top 60 corps in warpoints and are pretty good players when we only had 4 players in our corp. so win loss and wp are the most important things along with teamwork and communication and working with the other teams and or corps to win the game. then joined a game late where 843 was beating the **** out of the team we joined in caught up and stomped them out by winning. they all used heavies with either assault rifles and or machine guns and all stayed at the letters they held but we won by kills.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.01.20 16:26:00 - [48] - Quote It kinda depends on what we're evaluating doesn't it? like if i'm deciding whether or not to recruit someone, i could forgive a bad W/L if they had a good K/D because they could easily have ended up ****** by the blue dot lottery. they're worth a tryout, right? whereas if i were looking to hire a corp to do a job for me, i'd be FAR more interested in the corps W/L. i don't care how pro they looked doing it if they let my planet get burned to the ground or whatever.


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