DUST Search - [Proposal] New SENSIBLE SP cap mechanic

Nova Knife wrote:

It's not a bad idea. Probably one of the better SP proposals I've seen, but similar to others that have been posted before.

I'm not a fan of hard caps, though.

The biggest flaw in the current system is that it's designed more around what we'll have in the (somewhat distant) future than what we have at present. When there is actually things to do other than senselessly grind, then grinding for SP won't be the primary (and only) motivation to play for the majority of players. For now though, that's all we have. I'm sure CCP has better numbers on how many people just stop playing after they cap out or get close to capping out.

I get that they want to curb advancement, and there's been tons of reasons stated why this is the case. But FPS players mostly want instant gratification. In a game where the lure is to earn stuff and do more things than just pointlessly frag others, they expect to actually earn stuff! This proposal is definitely better than what we have now. I especially like the part where you don't need to wait until downtime. This is a huge thing as it doesn't discriminate based on timezones.

But, while CCP was nice enough to give us a softcap of earning 50, that's more of a hollow gesture than anything. 50 Skillpoints is no incentive to keep playing. And having no incentive to keep playing is just bad juju. The longer CCP keeps a cap that gives the mentality of "It's not worth it to play after X amount of time", the more damage it will do to dust in the long run.

CCP says they're still working on adjusting this. I'd suggest they do it -quickly-

As far as your idea goes, I like it. But the floor should never go below like 500-1k SP before boosters. That's about as low as I could reasonably see a soft cap being. Either way, something needs to be done!

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Absolute Idiom II BetaMax. 68	Posted - 2013.01.10 23:13:00 - [1] - Quote The current system has wavered between a daily or weekly hardcap in active SP accrual for all players. Both have their pros and cons: Weekly Pros: 1) Large SP cap unlikely to be hit in a single day 2) Does not penalise players who cannot/do not want to play every day of the week Cons: 1) Once the limit has been hit there may be a significant number of days until the SP cap reset is applied 2) A player who can spread their days of intense play around the SP cap reset day has an advantage over a player who cannot do this, as they are unlikely to be limited by the SP cap. Daily Pros: 1) Active SP rewards available each day to frequent players 2) Incentive to play each day Cons: 1) Players who do not play each day are penalised relative to player who play each day - they miss out of potential active SP rewards 2) Low active SP cap, very likely to be hit in an extended play session, for example at the weekend 3) A daily limit penalises player who cannot play each day, but would focus the same play time into a day or 2. The Alternative It's simple really. 1) Have an active SP reward pool which is the size of a weeks worth of SP, which with the current limits would be 190,400 SP. 2) Active SP rewards deplete this pool, as they do now. 3) Each tick of 30 minutes 566 SP are added back into the SP reward pool. 4) The pool never goes above the maximum size of 190,400 SP 5) Once empty, no rewards (or a nominal reward) is given). The Benefits You get to combine the pros of the weekly AND the daily cap! Pros: 1) Whether you play weekly or daily, you have the opportunity to achieve the same number of active SP rewards from your plays. -- You can spread your 10 hours per week over the entire week, playing each day. Or you can have a marathon weekend and do it all in one go! 2) No matter how much you have played, you will always have some more SP that you can earn the next day. A full day's worth of SP in fact. -- Even if you've earned an entire week's worth of active SP reward in the previous 2 days, you don't have to wait for a weekly reset day before it is worth playing some more 3) No waiting for a reset at down time before, just wait 30 minutes! Edit: I forgot to add that: 4) It doesn't matter what the SP pool size is, the SP pool recovery rate is what sets how fast the maximum speed of SP accrual is. The SP pool could be set to a month's worth; the only affect would be how far in front players could be when comparing a full pool to an empty pool. Cons: None that I can think of. Miscellaneous A) There are already several games which implement a gradually recovering SP/XP/AP pool, the most favourite of mine being UrbanDead found at: http://www.urbandead.com/faq.html#50ap B) I'd actually suggest a recover rate of 340 SP each 18 minutes, since this divides both 27,200 SP and 1440 minutes per day evenly. C) I'd like to thank CCP_CmdrWang for encouraging me to post this proposal: https://twitter.com/CCP_CmdrWang/status/289195901568827392 Please like if you support this alternative proposal. Comments and feedback welcome.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 4	Posted - 2013.01.10 23:23:00 - [2] - Quote This is a good idea and you should feel good.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.01.10 23:30:00 - [3] - Quote Bump for great justice.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2013.01.10 23:32:00 - [4] - Quote It's not a bad idea. Probably one of the better SP proposals I've seen, but similar to others that have been posted before. I'm not a fan of hard caps, though. The biggest flaw in the current system is that it's designed more around what we'll have in the (somewhat distant) future than what we have at present. When there is actually things to do other than senselessly grind, then grinding for SP won't be the primary (and only) motivation to play for the majority of players. For now though, that's all we have. I'm sure CCP has better numbers on how many people just stop playing after they cap out or get close to capping out. I get that they want to curb advancement, and there's been tons of reasons stated why this is the case. But FPS players mostly want instant gratification. In a game where the lure is to earn stuff and do more things than just pointlessly frag others, they expect to actually earn stuff! This proposal is definitely better than what we have now. I especially like the part where you don't need to wait until downtime. This is a huge thing as it doesn't discriminate based on timezones. But, while CCP was nice enough to give us a softcap of earning 50, that's more of a hollow gesture than anything. 50 Skillpoints is no incentive to keep playing. And having no incentive to keep playing is just bad juju. The longer CCP keeps a cap that gives the mentality of "It's not worth it to play after X amount of time", the more damage it will do to dust in the long run. CCP says they're still working on adjusting this. I'd suggest they do it -quickly- As far as your idea goes, I like it. But the floor should never go below like 500-1k SP before boosters. That's about as low as I could reasonably see a soft cap being. Either way, something needs to be done!
Absolute Idiom II BetaMax. 68	Posted - 2013.01.10 23:56:00 - [5] - Quote Edit: I forgot to add that: 4) It doesn't matter what the SP pool size is, the SP pool recovery rate is what sets how fast the maximum speed of SP accrual is. The SP pool could be set to a month's worth; the only affect would be how far in front players could be when comparing a full pool to an empty pool.
Shaszbot Angels of Anarchy AL3XAND3R. 16	Posted - 2013.01.11 09:26:00 - [6] - Quote I like the idea, but instead of pounding the database hourly to add XX points to every account, just do it nightly, adding the 27,200. +1
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2013.01.11 09:49:00 - [7] - Quote i like this idea as it favors the casual player that can play heavily at the weekend to deplete the Pool and then if you play a couple games over the course of the week and then by the time the weekend roles around again your pool is recharged But because we are a diverse community from full time working/ parents to students/ unemployed what ever system we or CCP comes up with its bound to annoy some people
I-Shayz-I ZionTCD Legacy Rising 172	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:08:00 - [8] - Quote If the system isn't changed to this, at least make it so that the person who tops the board for the round gets something like 500 bonus sp instead of 50. Say 1st: 500 2nd: 250 3rd: 100 It would give me more of a reason to still be competitive even if I know I won't be getting any skillpoints.
Yay Adski Doomheim 53	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:57:00 - [9] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: It's not a bad idea. Probably one of the better SP proposals I've seen, but similar to others that have been posted before. I'm not a fan of hard caps, though. The biggest flaw in the current system is that it's designed more around what we'll have in the (somewhat distant) future than what we have at present. When there is actually things to do other than senselessly grind, then grinding for SP won't be the primary (and only) motivation to play for the majority of players. For now though, that's all we have. I'm sure CCP has better numbers on how many people just stop playing after they cap out or get close to capping out. I get that they want to curb advancement, and there's been tons of reasons stated why this is the case. But FPS players mostly want instant gratification. In a game where the lure is to earn stuff and do more things than just pointlessly frag others, they expect to actually earn stuff! This proposal is definitely better than what we have now. I especially like the part where you don't need to wait until downtime. This is a huge thing as it doesn't discriminate based on timezones. But, while CCP was nice enough to give us a softcap of earning 50, that's more of a hollow gesture than anything. 50 Skillpoints is no incentive to keep playing. And having no incentive to keep playing is just bad juju. The longer CCP keeps a cap that gives the mentality of "It's not worth it to play after X amount of time", the more damage it will do to dust in the long run. CCP says they're still working on adjusting this. I'd suggest they do it -quickly- As far as your idea goes, I like it. But the floor should never go below like 500-1k SP before boosters. That's about as low as I could reasonably see a soft cap being. Either way, something needs to be done! +1 My chocolate studmuffin
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.11 12:31:00 - [10] - Quote OP quit making me like you. I want to hate everyone.

Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:21:00 - [11] - Quote So in short, for those of us with ADD, Same daily cap we have now with up to a weeks worth of stored rollover sp (much like rollover minutes for your cell phone). I like it. +1 personally, I am anti-diminished returns and I hope that they stay gone
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:27:00 - [12] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: So in short, for those of us with ADD, Same daily cap we have now with up to a weeks worth of stored rollover sp (much like rollover minutes for your cell phone). I like it. +1 personally, I am anti-diminished returns and I hope that they stay gone Im liking you for your name. +1
Yay Adski Doomheim 53	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:58:00 - [13] - Quote Can't remember if this has been said or not but what about remove the cap but give min/max you can get?. Also add more skills or tier them, that way it's still going to take it's time getting higher end stuff but you still get the satisfaction of not seeing lol50sp. Probably some flaws in this but just thought I'd throw it out there. Could also give an increase in passive if you don't play for 2 days and then another one after 4 days, that would help out the weekend players somewhat.
Namri Ogelwie Black Flag Operations The Kadeshi 3	Posted - 2013.01.11 14:07:00 - [14] - Quote +1 Great idea!
Absolute Idiom II BetaMax. 68	Posted - 2013.01.11 17:13:00 - [15] - Quote Shaszbot wrote: I like the idea, but instead of pounding the database hourly to add XX points to every account, just do it nightly, adding the 27,200. +1 You mean like the way the database is pounded every 4 seconds to add 1SP passively? ;) +1
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2013.01.11 17:44:00 - [16] - Quote +1 but remove the limit on the pool or make it higher. Tbh a universal cap/pool is my preferred option. IMHO, guys who get the game 6 months from now SHOULD be able to get to the top still. Hence why I prefer the idea of a universal rolling cap. Sure they can catch you. But they would have to no-life for a long time. Very long time.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2013.01.11 18:57:00 - [17] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: IMHO, guys who get the game 6 months from now SHOULD be able to get to the top still. Hence why I prefer the idea of a universal rolling cap. Sure they can catch you. But they would have to no-life for a long time. Very long time. In the EVE-style that this game is, there's a broad-training vs specialization trade-off that allows new guys to catch up since skills can be maxed to level 5. The older players might be able to play a ton more classes or switch out different weapons effectively on their fits, but if the new guy specializing in Shields on Assault suits with ARs, he can be quite formidable in a short amount of time, and eventually you'll both be maxed out, even if he joined 4 years after you.
Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.11 18:58:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Stinker Butt wrote: So in short, for those of us with ADD, Same daily cap we have now with up to a weeks worth of stored rollover sp (much like rollover minutes for your cell phone). I like it. +1 personally, I am anti-diminished returns and I hope that they stay gone Im liking you for your name. +1 Thank you ^^
Nickles Jester BetaMax. 43	Posted - 2013.01.11 20:18:00 - [19] - Quote I think this is really good and I think it would work well with my idea from earlier. I think the two could work well together. Just my opinion.
Spacetits CDXX Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 105	Posted - 2013.01.11 22:02:00 - [20] - Quote +1, reasonable compromise fix to current system.

S Park Finner BetaMax. 89	Posted - 2013.01.12 00:31:00 - [21] - Quote Nickles Jester wrote: I think this is really good and I think it would work well with my idea from earlier. I think the two could work well together. Just my opinion. Check Jesters idea out here. It is a really good, straight forward idea.
Grav Reviera Dragon Black Ops 5	Posted - 2013.01.12 02:09:00 - [22] - Quote ......thats just like saying you still have a limitation thats ganna be breached already......fact is some of the players play 18 hrs durring thier sleeping schedules, 18 hrs that week cap is already breached and gone. I still feel that dist should use the same skill system as eve. it is 2 games in the same worlds, it would make sence to use Eve's skill system apposed to restricting dust players and not eve. Eve can lvl up around 30-40 lvl 1 skills in 24 hrs, Dust is lucky to even get 4 lvl 1 skills in a day. I call all SP limitations horse sht.
Chosokabe Ite Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.01.12 02:50:00 - [23] - Quote I hate being intentionally limited like this. I say screw the cap. But if there has to be one, these ides work out just fine.
Absolon Gainne Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 11	Posted - 2013.01.12 03:35:00 - [24] - Quote This is a fantastic and obviously well thought-out solution to the current problem, +1
JusticeReeves Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 14	Posted - 2013.01.12 03:39:00 - [25] - Quote Again I got an SP booster thinking they had the damn thing right..... I was wrong.... +1 tor this thread.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.12 03:43:00 - [26] - Quote pure win, if CCP doesn't do this they are fools Also I would suggest making the new minimum sp once you hit the cap 500sp. This would mean it takes 10 games to gain 5000 sp once you hit the cap, I don't think that's too much. The rolling cap is brilliant and the OP is a total boss
KA24DERT Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 13	Posted - 2013.01.12 07:26:00 - [27] - Quote It sounds like the most elegant solution to this problem is not to have a cap at all. What problem does a skill cap address?
Scrubmuffin Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2013.01.12 10:40:00 - [28] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: It sounds like the most elegant solution to this problem is not to have a cap at all. What problem does a skill cap address? Apparently it's so the casuals are never too far behind. Yeah I know I don't know any other game that limits people for wanting to play more. Like our game? Want to shoot more people? Spend more AUR? Well here is you reward, you don't level up your char.
Gaechti BetaMax. 71	Posted - 2013.01.12 12:01:00 - [29] - Quote +1
KA24DERT Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 13	Posted - 2013.01.12 18:29:00 - [30] - Quote Scrubmuffin wrote: KA24DERT wrote: It sounds like the most elegant solution to this problem is not to have a cap at all. What problem does a skill cap address? Apparently it's so the casuals are never too far behind. Yeah I know I don't know any other game that limits people for wanting to play more. Like our game? Want to shoot more people? Spend more AUR? Well here is you reward, you don't level up your char. Honestly, I like EVE's solution to this problem: Cry Some More. But if some equalization must occur, why punish the regular players in favor of the new player? Instead, why not just take an average of the skill points earned by individual players since the launch of the game, and reward all new subscribers with 10-25% of that amount upon new account creation? This way we can earn as my XP as we'd care to, and a new player will (eventually) be able to specialize decently into a single role (1 drop suit, 1 weapon, supporting skills).



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