With the new SP system that will take 1 and a half years if I hit the SP cap everyday without any boosters.

For an AV player to get to proto level they probably spend in SP 3-4m? which is a quater of the time.

So in 6 months there will be Proto AV running around while vehicle users will still be running Miltia fit Vehicle.

It seems you forgot about 24k passive SP. Each day you can get 27k active SP and 24k passive SP. This is without any boosters. Therefore you need 14000/51=275 day.

it was intend that I didn't factor in passive SP as you can only use passive on one character. with passive Proto AV would be 3 months rather than 6.

Is it a valid assumption that some players will skill specifically into Anti-Armor/Anti-Vehicle, at the cost of of ignoring other things?
Also, is it a valid assumption that it either take a single Anti-Armor setup to kill a HAV, OR that the proportion of people skilling into Anti-Armor will match the proportion of mercs it takes to take down a (single-merc operated) HAV ?


Yes, you can get into issues quickly with very powerful mercs being able to take out your HAV, but played correctly your HAV should be able to defeat most individual mercs.

it may be single operated but what most ppl in the community dont get is that u actually need infantry support if ppl are hittin u with AV. U dont need and tbqh its a stupid game mechanic to make HAVs require more than 1 person when it already requires teamwork to keep one up from a dedicated AV duo/squad

and to answer ur earlier claims yes ppl will dump all their SP into specific roles if their corp is big enough at the beginning.
in my corp one of my heavies went into FGs 1st ignoring HMGs

How exactly is having an Hav require multiple people in it a stupid mechanic? A decent gunner or two should fill the teamwork needed to keep the Hav alive and it usually works for me even with blue dots in my tank

Not all gunners will get out to go kill the AV at the other side of the map.

it may be single operated but what most ppl in the community dont get is that u actually need infantry support if ppl are hittin u with AV. U dont need and tbqh its a stupid game mechanic to make HAVs require more than 1 person when it already requires teamwork to keep one up from a dedicated AV duo/squad

and to answer ur earlier claims yes ppl will dump all their SP into specific roles if their corp is big enough at the beginning.
in my corp one of my heavies went into FGs 1st ignoring HMGs

You do realize a decent sniper on your side or a railgun fit counters long range Av right?

You do realize a decent sniper on your side or a railgun fit counters long range Av right?

You do realise most snipers are **** right? Also railguns are terrible at anti infantry compared to the other turrets, and a good forge gunner or swarmer will still be able to outdistance a rail gun.

Whoa....14m sp for a proto tank? I've been very active in the last build and I've accumulated 10m sps as of this week. I doubt there is anyone with 12m sps and proto tanks have been running on the battlefield for weeks now.

What is the vehicle skill for a proto tank? Like a 10x multiplier? That's something around 3m total skill points. Definitely nowhere near 2 years to acquire.

Also, gunnlogis are able to do some serious damage out there on the battlefield if STD tanks doesn't fit you well. People have been saying MLT or PRO in every situation. But fail to look at the ADV gear....which in most cases, is all you really need.

Yes and I would have sniper cover over gunners any day of the week but that's not the point.

Whoa....14m sp for a proto tank? I've been very active in the last build and I've accumulated 10m sps as of this week. I doubt there is anyone with 12m sps and proto tanks have been running on the battlefield for weeks now.

What is the vehicle skill for a proto tank? Like a 10x multiplier? That's something around 3m total skill points. Definitely nowhere near 2 years to acquire.

Also, gunnlogis are able to do some serious damage out there on the battlefield if STD tanks doesn't fit you well. People have been saying MLT or PRO in every situation. But fail to look at the ADV gear....which in most cases, is all you really need.

@Mavado You do realize a decent sniper on your side or a railgun fit counters long range Av right?

Thats correct. But Railgun fit is hardly effective against infantry, unless the infantry is stationary for over 3-4 seconds. The little splash damage the RG does is not enough to take out a long rang Forge gunner. You cant run around and support your infantry with a Railgun fit. You need the blaster for it. RG is good for taking out installations and tanks from a distance. But bring a RG infront of a decent fit Blaster, it wont last very long. On top of everything else, all you have to do is to call in a OB on the tank if its a RG and using distance to its advantage. A well fitted Surya over 10K HP with dual Armor reps activated, isnt enough. Blaster is the way to go (its not like you can change turrets once you've deployed the tank)...

You should know I'm referring to the gunner using the small railgun, not one as a main gun

It helps if the gunner has some turret skills. Again its effective against installations and vehicles. Infantry has to be extremely lucky shot.

It helps if the gunner has some turret skills. Again its effective against installations and vehicles. Infantry has to be extremely lucky shot.

Not really, forge gunners move slow and swarm users usually jump which helps predict where they'll be so you can hit them or I and the vast majority of everyone who's gunned for me is extremely lucky. Just because the description says that's it's main purpose doesn't make ir correct

I think the daily cap is worse than the weekly one. The gap between hardcore and casual players will be more evident now than ever.

Not really, forge gunners move slow and swarm users usually jump which helps predict where they'll be so you can hit them or I and the vast majority of everyone who's gunned for me is extremely lucky. Just because the description says that's it's main purpose doesn't make ir correct

Damn SP cap never thought of it that way tbh

I mean i skilled up for both the Surya and Sagaris with perfect support skills for the shield tank and missing a couple of levels for the armor reps and turret wise i had mostly hybrids skilled up and lolmissiles but i could use the majority if not all mods anyways

But yes AV is way too easy to skill up tbh and also way too easy to use

SL lock on through cover then jump fire when in mid air and forget while they follow you around cover

FG more damage than a vehicle mounted railgun yea go figure

Then again who needs to skill up AV? why bother you have beast milita AV stuff to use and flux nades which do 1200 or just normal AV which home to the vehicle to make up for your bad positioning


We could defo call this hard cap another nerf to the vehicle user

I was on the fence about going for vehicles again and see if the move to TQ also includes any fixes or alterations to mods and equipment etc because it may help vehicles but i dunno if anything will change

Same here... Surya is the Beast. If the AV and HAVs are balanced it would be a great contest. But Tank Vs Tank (No infantry) any shield tank tank with watever Proto Fit should stay away from blasters (LVL 4 and Above). Sagaris didnt even last few seconds when it tried to go head on against my Surya. I wasnt even using Proto Blaster, the Heat meter didnt even reach a quarter tbh LOL

Red Star Surya didnt last against my 5k Armor Madrugar Blaster head on with infantry supporting that tank. So far, tank vs tank Armor tank is the way to go. (Rail guns on top of a hill, different story however)

Nice, I currently only use my gunloggi to take down other tanks and if the lav spam gets too high. My tank
"Respect My Authority " is used to sustai a lot of damage for a short time then retreat if possible

I try not to shoot the LAVs, i prefer ramming into them. Also laser rifles make me chuckle. They get excited when they see my shield go down quickly LOL....

I shoot lavs because I like to kill the passengers then destroy the vehicle, and I usually do the same to dropships, especially when the doors are open

Honestly the best fix I can think of is reduce the dmg of militia and standard AV stuff. If everyone can have easy access to that stuff it shouldn't be so affective. What that does is make tanks weaker and less viable, but it also makes going AV less needed and less viable.

Honestly the best fix I can think of is reduce the dmg of militia and standard AV stuff. If everyone can have easy access to that stuff it shouldn't be so affective. What that does is make tanks weaker and less viable, but it also makes going AV less needed and less viable.

AV requires you to run on the field with a smg or pistol. Most people cannot succeed that way and will lose lots of money because they will never be on top of the game wp and therefore will not gain their money back. AV have to level up the av weapon of choice, sidearm of choice, and to have AnY chance vs infantry they also have to level sidearn secondary skills, primarily sharpshooter, and for pistols the extra ammo is a must.

I have yet to be able to solo Aldin's tank and when I hunt vehicles, as my choice of av goes, I die many more times then if I just run and gun ...and I get much less wp because there is a chance I don't get the last hit on the tank.

I love how the OP compared a total proto fit tank, which can kill infantry and vehicles alike and are more likely to survive multiple battles, to leveling a proto weapon without any supporting skills....a proto weapon is about 100k and the survivability of that suit would be next to nothing. There are always two sides to the story.

Do I think tankers have it easy? Not at all, but it isn't because of the sp need. It is because people have access to basis AV very easily...a guy going AR can use fluxes or AV nades and once the tank is dealt with change his loadout.

Honestly the best fix I can think of is reduce the dmg of militia and standard AV stuff. If everyone can have easy access to that stuff it shouldn't be so affective. What that does is make tanks weaker and less viable, but it also makes going AV less needed and less viable.

why make tanks weaker and less viable?? I don't understand your reasoning with this. Tanks should be as viable as anything else if not then what's the point of having them in the game at all?

Just make tanks cheep again problem solved

And in three months the proto AV guys will get killed by proto everything else because they only skilled for AV.

In corp matches you'll have infantry guys covering you from AV.

I'm pretty much a dedicated AV player and love nothing more than destroying all your delicious tanks but I have to agree that it is far too easy to skill into and the militia AV gear is far too powerful.

I love seeing militia tanks coming out because they're easy kills but well fitted standard tanks take a little more effort and advanced ones can be royal pain but I can still occasionally solo them with only ADV swarms, 2 complex DMG mods and some packed AV nades.

It doesn't take much effort for anyone to spec into effective AV gear and even a squad of militia AV could take down most tanks with good teamwork. Militia AV needs a massive damage nerf, like take a missile out of the swarm and halve FG damage but more importantly something needs to be done about the way swarms can be used - you should never be able to fire a missile mid jump, that's crazy ridiculous. Also movement speed needs to be drastically reduced or even completely removed whilst aiming with either SL or FG. This would mean that it would take a whole lot more skill to get into position and take some well timed shots to be effective, even though this would make my job a whole lot m

So with the new patch comes a new SP system, this new system will affect vehicle users the most as it take a lot of SP to get a half decent vehicle. At the moment I have around 9.5m SP and almost all of that has been put into HAV use, I'm still around 4m SP from having a full proto vehicle. That is around 14m SP in total.

With the new SP system that will take 1 and a half years if I hit the SP cap everyday without any boosters.

For an AV player to get to proto level they probably spend in SP 3-4m? which is a quater of the time.

So in 6 months there will be Proto AV running around while vehicle users will still be running Miltia fit Vehicle. Proto > Miltia. so being a vehicle user will be a waste of time or very expensive. I suggest skill up into vehicles last because you will just be face rolled by paytowin AV and people who pay for boosters.

I would just like to say gg to all the cry babies who got vehicles nerfed and AV buffed. You won't need to worry about any "unbeatable" vehicles for atleast 2years.

Even with boosters, passive and active, no one will hit there cap every day so it will still take around the same time period to get to the proper levels.

And I thought CCP wanted this free to play where there would be no pay to win

.
.
Proxy explosives, AV nades, nanohives and militia / basic swarms. You can put down 3 mines, reload 3 more mines from the hive and put those down as well. That's 6 mines per player and they persist after you die. A squad can block off whole areas of the map to ground vehicles this way. Even a gunnlogi has to retreat to the red zone when that happens. Subdreddit has been using this strategy for a week or so now and while I didn't really want to give it away, because it's hilarious to kill / scare off so many vehicles, I don't really want ground vehicles to be 100% ineffective.
.
.

Well all what im going to lvl up vehicle sided is LAV's with a scattered blaster. Tanks are to expensive, consume to much SP and in the end 1 forgegunner on a hill is enough to make you look stupid. And look how good LAV's actually are. Theyare fast, you can put a decent amount of shields on them and the small turret does a decent job. And it has 3 seats perfect to assault a objective. I say its cost efficent. A tank is slow and a easy target for every forgegunner and dropships can be shot down with a swarm launcher from anywhere on the map.

Let's take an analogy from eve. A newbie rushes battleship and gets killed by the newbie that focused frigate for the couple of months. A frigate tries to take on a veteran battleship and dies or resolves in a getaway. Working as intended.

O_o This is first time anyone even implied that proxy mines would be good.

Yeah they have their uses (vs slow LAV's) but they are so weak they could even be left out of the list of AV methods...


(How I know? I've been using proxies in both builds before, even now when they were fixed they're so unreliable and weak. And I'm using proto proxies as well. And usually a set of 9 mines, sometimes even a set of friggin' 18)


Sorry for slight off-topic, got to correct.

EVE ref then

Milita = frig
Basic = destroyer
Adv = cruiser
Proto = battlecruiser

Atm frig can destroy battlecruiser every easily

EVE ref then

Milita = frig
Basic = destroyer
Adv = cruiser
Proto = battlecruiser

Atm frig can destroy battlecruiser every easily