DUST Search - (Feedback) Forge Guns are OP--Nerf Them!

Zero Harpuia wrote:

When it comes to the Forge Gun, it has better damage output for a number of balance reasons such as being harder to aim, mounting it on a really weak frame (the heavy suit), prohibitive cost, low ammo, need to lead mobile targets, and it's the only infantry anti armor weapon that can target weak points on a vehicle hull.

Also, do you know why a Forge Gun does more damage from a design standpoint?
First off, it has very weak splash, so it seems it has better containment and focus than a vehicle mounted Railgun.
Secondly, after about 1400 damage, even Heavy protos fitted with proto armor are going to be OHKOed, so why does a weapon have more damage than that? Because it is specifically designed for anti-vehicular use. Whereas the Railguns are meant to be used against both soft and hard targets, Forge Guns are meant to be used ONLY on vehicles, with any human kills being a crapshoot.
Finally, a tank may cost a ton more, but when you make a tank with a Railgun your first thought isn't 'Now time to die three times to kill an enemy tank,' it's usually more like 'time to kick ass and kick MORE ass.' Using a Forge Gun is a death sentence, a Heavy with just a sidearm is what most Assaults call a free kill. A tank with a railgun is still a tank.. and lets be honest. When a Heavy gets shot, he dies. When a tank gets shot, it zooms back to the redline and starts sucking its thumb. The tank costs ALOT, yes. But unless you are phenomenally stupid or unlucky, its a single payment.

So look at it this way. Infantry suit: squishy target, dies alot. HAV: Hard target, can run faster than (insert horrible taste joke here).

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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2012.12.30 17:40:00 - [1] - Quote When compared to the railguns, forge guns are clearly overpowered. Now after the recent update, the best forge gun is more powerful than the best railgun. How is a portable hand held device more powerful than a specialized HAV module? This is the same as saying that your modern over-the-shoulder rocket launcher is more powerful than an M1 Abrams main artillery cannon. I know that many of you defend your forge gun suits by saying that they are expensive; but they still are not as expensive as a HAV... and not even close to a Marauder HAV. But look at it this way. Infantry suit: small target, maneuvarable. HAV: large target, not as maneuvarable. Since I'm a railgun HAV operator, I find it fairly hard to get a direct hit on you unless you are absolutely motionless while charging your forge gun. It also takes me three to four splash hits to kill a forge gun suit, but many times I don't have that time. I'm almost gauranteed to lose my HAV if a forge gun operator is literally up next to me and I have no chances of getting him. My suggestions: 1) Reduce damage inflicted points on forge guns so that railguns are on top or 2) Have a minimum target distance on the forge gun before its charge becomes effective (story can have it that the nearby target is causing interference on the charge function) or 3) Increase splash damage on the railgun so that it would take at the most two splash hits to kill a forge gun operator. Edit: note: I can already kill most infantry units with one splash hit due to skills, so the splash damage increase will have no effect on regular infantry, only on heavies.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.12.30 19:09:00 - [2] - Quote When it comes to the Forge Gun, it has better damage output for a number of balance reasons such as being harder to aim, mounting it on a really weak frame (the heavy suit), prohibitive cost, low ammo, need to lead mobile targets, and it's the only infantry anti armor weapon that can target weak points on a vehicle hull. Also, do you know why a Forge Gun does more damage from a design standpoint? First off, it has very weak splash, so it seems it has better containment and focus than a vehicle mounted Railgun. Secondly, after about 1400 damage, even Heavy protos fitted with proto armor are going to be OHKOed, so why does a weapon have more damage than that? Because it is specifically designed for anti-vehicular use. Whereas the Railguns are meant to be used against both soft and hard targets, Forge Guns are meant to be used ONLY on vehicles, with any human kills being a crapshoot. Finally, a tank may cost a ton more, but when you make a tank with a Railgun your first thought isn't 'Now time to die three times to kill an enemy tank,' it's usually more like 'time to kick ass and kick MORE ass.' Using a Forge Gun is a death sentence, a Heavy with just a sidearm is what most Assaults call a free kill. A tank with a railgun is still a tank.. and lets be honest. When a Heavy gets shot, he dies. When a tank gets shot, it zooms back to the redline and starts sucking its thumb. The tank costs ALOT, yes. But unless you are phenomenally stupid or unlucky, its a single payment. So look at it this way. Infantry suit: squishy target, dies alot. HAV: Hard target, can run faster than (insert horrible taste joke here).
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2012.12.30 20:41:00 - [3] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: When it comes to the Forge Gun, it has better damage output for a number of balance reasons such as being harder to aim, mounting it on a really weak frame (the heavy suit), prohibitive cost, low ammo, need to lead mobile targets, and it's the only infantry anti armor weapon that can target weak points on a vehicle hull. Also, do you know why a Forge Gun does more damage from a design standpoint? First off, it has very weak splash, so it seems it has better containment and focus than a vehicle mounted Railgun. Secondly, after about 1400 damage, even Heavy protos fitted with proto armor are going to be OHKOed, so why does a weapon have more damage than that? Because it is specifically designed for anti-vehicular use. Whereas the Railguns are meant to be used against both soft and hard targets, Forge Guns are meant to be used ONLY on vehicles, with any human kills being a crapshoot. Finally, a tank may cost a ton more, but when you make a tank with a Railgun your first thought isn't 'Now time to die three times to kill an enemy tank,' it's usually more like 'time to kick ass and kick MORE ass.' Using a Forge Gun is a death sentence, a Heavy with just a sidearm is what most Assaults call a free kill. A tank with a railgun is still a tank.. and lets be honest. When a Heavy gets shot, he dies. When a tank gets shot, it zooms back to the redline and starts sucking its thumb. The tank costs ALOT, yes. But unless you are phenomenally stupid or unlucky, its a single payment. So look at it this way. Infantry suit: squishy target, dies alot. HAV: Hard target, can run faster than (insert horrible taste joke here). Good argument. Only thing which I can't see is why can't a railgun be more powerful from a technological perspective. I understand everything for the balance of the game, but I find it worst when game balance simply does not make much sense. It would just simply seem like a railgun shoiuld pack a lot more punch based on its size and the ability to draw more energy, assuming that a HAV's powerplant can supply a lot more energy than the power pack on the forge gun ;). And I suppose you're right when it all comes down to luck. My last Sagaris loss occurred because an LAV with two forge gunners and one swarm launcher ambushed me, in addition to one more person crashing(?) a dropship behind me to block my only path of escape. Then another time I lost another Sagaris after successfully taking cover with about 20% shield left after a forge gunner was sniping me from an unkown location to me; after which an orbital strike was coincidentally called right on top of me. As for that first loss, I have a suggestion to help prevent such ambushes (because how can you hear an incoming LAV yet not able to pinpoint its location on your minimap?) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49322&find=unread
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:07:00 - [4] - Quote I would guess it has to do with the fact that Forge Guns take so much longer to charge up or some such. They are both kinetic weapons so I'm honestly not sure from a technological standpoint.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:08:00 - [5] - Quote Forge guns are manpack railguns according to lore. antitank rails specifically. Also consider HAV rails are infinite ammo weapons. forge gunners have to hang near supply depots or hope a buddy has a nanohive
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.12.30 22:29:00 - [6] - Quote Smgs also do more damage than a HMG. Like forge & railguns, they have to be balanced for the sake of gameplay. Sure it makes sense for a tank cannon to do more damage than a handheld weapon, but that handheld weapon has a finite ammo supply, reduced range & accuracy, and isn't mounted on a several thousand HP platform. So for that reason, I would say your argument for nerfing forge guns is invalid.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:00:00 - [7] - Quote And in the smg vs hmg example thr rate of fire and tighter spray on the hmg makes up for the initial dps difference. also range.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2012.12.31 07:29:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And in the smg vs hmg example thr rate of fire and tighter spray on the hmg makes up for the initial dps difference. also range. True but they gutted the Toxin in this build. That was my go to Sidearm and it saved my butt many times. Now it can only get a kill if the target has reduced Shields and Armor, is facing away from you, you have an 80 clip version and you are very careful with each round. Basically gutted. Or super extra nerfed in the vocabulary of Dust.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.12.31 07:48:00 - [9] - Quote When it comes to why it does more damage, I'd like to say it's just easier to have a big number when it's already past the point of infantry gibbing than programming another damage multiplication variable. As for a technological reason, I can use a hydraulic hammer to smash into a cuboid of metal surrounding a sensitive core. The metal may deform slightly or crack, but the core itself won't be too badly damaged, as the wide hammer head disperses the impact force which can be felt as a wave of compressed air. If you replace it with a tapered head, like you'd see on a screwdriver or a modern bullet, it will pierce deep into the cuboid when the same force is applied, damaging the core, but there will be little to no shockwave. In this manner, I can assume that the HAV fires large, cylindrical slugs designed to kick up shrapnel, hence their greater splash. The Forge fires smaller, but tapered armor piercing shells from a similar mechanis, as it is obvious the user's strength is not taken into account from all the vibration of just charging the weapon. It may even use more speed to make up for less mass, driving the bolt further into the armor. I do hope this argument proves satisfactory. Also, to the chap above me, not sure why we need to talk about the Toxin here, no one brought it up, but an infinite run tool in this setup needs to be as weak and useless as possible.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.31 17:25:00 - [10] - Quote Wow.. I think I made a nice post about this, search for it. I compared damage and prices and how HAVer's got the haggis containments encrusted end of the stick.

Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2012.12.31 17:40:00 - [11] - Quote I just think the forge gun should be a distance weapon , as much as i see it being used like that . last night i got shot by one hacking an objective and an enemy spawn in. We were in hand shaking distance and he fired it at me killing me of course but didnt die himself. They should not be used for close quarter combat.
Cpt Murd0ck Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 95	Posted - 2012.12.31 18:51:00 - [12] - Quote A real world example of an infantry weapon being stronger than the m1 cannon would be a javilon. It's also cheaper about 80,000 per missile v an m1 which rolls in at about 7,000,000 per tank I think.
Chao Wolf Imperfects Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.12.31 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote Yal do know that rail guns are capable of firing multiple rounds in quick succession where as a forge can only fire one round at a time right.
nakaya indigene ZionTCD Legacy Rising 41	Posted - 2012.12.31 19:21:00 - [14] - Quote Harpyja wrote: When compared to the railguns, forge guns are clearly overpowered. Now after the recent update, the best forge gun is more powerful than the best railgun. How is a portable hand held device more powerful than a specialized HAV module? This is the same as saying that your modern over-the-shoulder rocket launcher is more powerful than an M1 Abrams main artillery cannon. I know that many of you defend your forge gun suits by saying that they are expensive; but they still are not as expensive as a HAV... and not even close to a Marauder HAV. But look at it this way. Infantry suit: small target, maneuvarable. HAV: large target, not as maneuvarable. Since I'm a railgun HAV operator, I find it fairly hard to get a direct hit on you unless you are absolutely motionless while charging your forge gun. It also takes me three to four splash hits to kill a forge gun suit, but many times I don't have that time. I'm almost gauranteed to lose my HAV if a forge gun operator is literally up next to me and I have no chances of getting him. My suggestions: 1) Reduce damage inflicted points on forge guns so that railguns are on top or 2) Have a minimum target distance on the forge gun before its charge becomes effective (story can have it that the nearby target is causing interference on the charge function) or 3) Increase splash damage on the railgun so that it would take at the most two splash hits to kill a forge gun operator. Edit: note: I can already kill most infantry units with one splash hit due to skills, so the splash damage increase will have no effect on regular infantry, only on heavies. I agree with him. Either nerf it or make a 1 hit k.o. forge large turret for tanks
Wako 75 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 76	Posted - 2013.01.01 07:09:00 - [15] - Quote its not that hard to kill a forge gunner with a tank and if you run with a corp just tell infantry about the forge they are so easy to kill but hey i use forge guns proto to be exact 100k per proto forge and when you solo tanks you die pretty easy now people need to stop with calling anything that is made to kill them is op. if you cant kill one heavy with a railgun switch to a baster .
Deveshi WarRavens 144	Posted - 2013.01.01 07:42:00 - [16] - Quote Tank Vs. forge gun and your moaning that the hand held is OP? lol People have already mentioned the drawbacks of the forge gun so my question is this; If you nerf the forge gun how do you propose to kill a tank with less than 3 people besides another tank? The tank can outrun infantry, outgun infantry and outtank infantry. So nerfing the forge gun will simply alienate those helpless few (many) who don't have friends and can't organise themselves in a team properly. I'm guessing these people would get a little pissed off at the situation and would probably stop playing. How does this achieve the goals of CCP? Forge guns are the only loner weapon you can use against a tank, let the loners have their cake and stop being a bully with your big mean tank!
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 73	Posted - 2013.01.01 11:26:00 - [17] - Quote Benefits of a Heavy with a Forge Gun: +Disposable +Can Hide Behind Objects +Slightly More Damage Benefits of a Tank with a Railgun: +Better Splash Damage +More Armor +More Armor (Twice for Emphasis) +More Speed +Rate of Fire +Less Charge Time +Anti-Infantry Turrets +No Ammo Usage +Can switch to Dropsuit Mode near instantly +Can Fit Extra Damage Amplifiers +Less Likely to Die +Good for Multiple Battles Large Railguns are not meant to kill infantry, they are meant to kill vehicles, especially large vehicles, so there is a reason you are falling to the fatboys. I can quickly kill fatboys with Large Blasters, even Militia blasters.
Siggmund Froid D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.01.11 20:57:00 - [18] - Quote Right Railguns are for Tanks and Installations, Blasters are Anti-Infantry. I think CCP said that somewhere. I remember hearing it in a video or reading it in a Dev post.
Mode Torsen ZionTCD Legacy Rising 11	Posted - 2013.01.26 02:29:00 - [19] - Quote My Dropship was recently hit by a single forge gun round. This round inflicted a minimum of 2,440 damage with the single round it also spun this ship upside down. I was piloting a Viper dropship (1) milita shield extender (1) milita shield damage resistance (1) milita shield booster with this fitting the Viper has roughly 2200 points of health, and the militia resistor has a -10% to the damage inflicted on the shields. While this is a full militia dropship, and therefore not really formidable, neither was the enemy's militia forge gun or rather it shouldn't be. 2,440 pts of damage is far too much.
Jackof All-Trades Bojo's School of the Trades 79	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:21:00 - [20] - Quote Oh thank god. I thought it was one of those crazy CoD players. You bring up some good points actually: how is a hand cannon stronger than a tank?

Val'herik Dorn CrimeWave Syndicate 264	Posted - 2013.01.26 05:38:00 - [21] - Quote Mode Torsen wrote: My Dropship was recently hit by a single forge gun round. This round inflicted a minimum of 2,440 damage with the single round it also spun this ship upside down. I was piloting a Viper dropship (1) milita shield extender (1) milita shield damage resistance (1) milita shield booster with this fitting the Viper has roughly 2200 points of health, and the militia resistor has a -10% to the damage inflicted on the shields. While this is a full militia dropship, and therefore not really formidable, neither was the enemy's militia forge gun or rather it shouldn't be. 2,440 pts of damage is far too much. WEEEEEEEELLLLL your first problem is that its a militia vehicle with a militia tank. Basically you were flying a paper bag with balsa supports and two rc motors thrown on for good measure. The proto assault forge gun does something like 1400 damage. now put weaponry 5 10% complex damage mod another 10% and finally proficiency level 3 6% The heavy hit you for 1680 damage now the fact that it pretty much eats shields and if you were at optimal range... no not too much you just chose a bad place to be at a bad time... However that being said all the dropships right now feel like wet paper bags in a wind tunnel.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.26 08:06:00 - [22] - Quote nerfing forgeguns isn't the answer. I do not in any way object to making railgun splash bigger. That would be a decent compromise. I'm a forgegunner and i approve of the idea of buffing tank rails over nerfing the forge guns. Shield tanks will survive forges better, armor tanks can fit +damage mods for rails easier which will bring them more in line power wise with similar forgeguns.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.26 08:42:00 - [23] - Quote Although it is puzzling at first, one thing should be noted: The HAV version is an automatic; once it charges up, it continues to fire until it's overheated. It also charges up far faster. This likely means the HAV gun is using a lighter slug than the Forge Gun, so that it can put more rounds downrange - which kills vehicles faster than the Forge if all the shots hit. To test this, next time your corp sets up a battle with a buddy or pet corp, have one HAV shoot the LRT at a red HAV, while a proto Forge Gun shoots the first. If the modules and skills of the two tanks are identical, the first to pop was shot with the superior weapon.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. 33	Posted - 2013.01.26 10:22:00 - [24] - Quote Harpyja wrote: When compared to the railguns, forge guns are clearly overpowered. Now after the recent update, the best forge gun is more powerful than the best railgun. How is a portable hand held device more powerful than a specialized HAV module? This is the same as saying that your modern over-the-shoulder rocket launcher is more powerful than an M1 Abrams main artillery cannon. I know that many of you defend your forge gun suits by saying that they are expensive; but they still are not as expensive as a HAV... and not even close to a Marauder HAV. But look at it this way. Infantry suit: small target, maneuvarable. HAV: large target, not as maneuvarable. Since I'm a railgun HAV operator, I find it fairly hard to get a direct hit on you unless you are absolutely motionless while charging your forge gun. It also takes me three to four splash hits to kill a forge gun suit, but many times I don't have that time. I'm almost gauranteed to lose my HAV if a forge gun operator is literally up next to me and I have no chances of getting him. My suggestions: 1) Reduce damage inflicted points on forge guns so that railguns are on top or 2) Have a minimum target distance on the forge gun before its charge becomes effective (story can have it that the nearby target is causing interference on the charge function) or 3) Increase splash damage on the railgun so that it would take at the most two splash hits to kill a forge gun operator. Edit: note: I can already kill most infantry units with one splash hit due to skills, so the splash damage increase will have no effect on regular infantry, only on heavies. Proto Heavy can fit 3x10% dmg mod and that give him total of 1.34,4 dmg modyficator(http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty). It take ages to skill it all up, and it all has only one destiny - kill annoying tank(killing structures are optional). Militia tank on the other hand, that cost fraction of Heavy with pro-AFG deal much greater dmg because he have much more slot's to fill them with dmg mod. HAV Railgans are meant to be snipers - if you telling us here that you are "almost gauranteed to lose my HAV if a forge gun operator is literally up next to me" you prove everyone in this topic that you have no knowledge about equipment you use - sorry that I'm telling you this, but I'm not trying to kill heavy with my Tactical Sniper Rifle at close range(because it is just to stupid). We should not change the game because some players don't know that direct hit from Railgun are meant to kill infantry instantly - yes you understand me well, I'm talking about skill's here. I have to finish.. cze+¢-ç.
Mode Torsen ZionTCD Legacy Rising 11	Posted - 2013.01.26 18:54:00 - [25] - Quote Val'herik Dorn wrote: Mode Torsen wrote: My Dropship was recently hit by a single forge gun round. This round inflicted a minimum of 2,440 damage with the single round it also spun this ship upside down. I was piloting a Viper dropship (1) milita shield extender (1) milita shield damage resistance (1) milita shield booster with this fitting the Viper has roughly 2200 points of health, and the militia resistor has a -10% to the damage inflicted on the shields. While this is a full militia dropship, and therefore not really formidable, neither was the enemy's militia forge gun or rather it shouldn't be. 2,440 pts of damage is far too much. WEEEEEEEELLLLL your first problem is that its a militia vehicle with a militia tank. Basically you were flying a paper bag with balsa supports and two rc motors thrown on for good measure. The proto assault forge gun does something like 1400 damage. now put weaponry 5 10% complex damage mod another 10% and finally proficiency level 3 6% The heavy hit you for 1680 damage now the fact that it pretty much eats shields and if you were at optimal range... no not too much you just chose a bad place to be at a bad time... However that being said all the dropships right now feel like wet paper bags in a wind tunnel. Just to be very clear, it was a militia forge gun. Not a proto assault forge gun or anything else. This was specifically a militia forge gun.
tribal wyvern ZionTCD Legacy Rising 675	Posted - 2013.01.26 19:17:00 - [26] - Quote Harpyja wrote: When compared to the railguns, forge guns are clearly overpowered. Now after the recent update, the best forge gun is more powerful than the best railgun. How is a portable hand held device more powerful than a specialized HAV module? This is the same as saying that your modern over-the-shoulder rocket launcher is more powerful than an M1 Abrams main artillery cannon. I know that many of you defend your forge gun suits by saying that they are expensive; but they still are not as expensive as a HAV... and not even close to a Marauder HAV. But look at it this way. Infantry suit: small target, maneuvarable. HAV: large target, not as maneuvarable. Since I'm a railgun HAV operator, I find it fairly hard to get a direct hit on you unless you are absolutely motionless while charging your forge gun. It also takes me three to four splash hits to kill a forge gun suit, but many times I don't have that time. I'm almost gauranteed to lose my HAV if a forge gun operator is literally up next to me and I have no chances of getting him. My suggestions: 1) Reduce damage inflicted points on forge guns so that railguns are on top or 2) Have a minimum target distance on the forge gun before its charge becomes effective (story can have it that the nearby target is causing interference on the charge function) or 3) Increase splash damage on the railgun so that it would take at the most two splash hits to kill a forge gun operator. Edit: note: I can already kill most infantry units with one splash hit due to skills, so the splash damage increase will have no effect on regular infantry, only on heavies. Hey newberry, leave the forge gun alone! We have gone through countless numbers of nerfs and tweaks of every weapon over the past year, the nerfs have been DONE! And all you new people are just going over old ground. PLEASE stop
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.01.26 19:53:00 - [27] - Quote it's pretty ridiculous that standard forge guns are better AV than prototype small railguns (and yes, I know railguns are fully automatic)
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 96	Posted - 2013.01.26 20:17:00 - [28] - Quote As a vehicle operator, I have no problem with the forge gun's damage. It might even be too low given how easily I dealt with that forge operator that took on my Sica last night. My issue is their range. This can allow a forge gunner to camp out a high point on the map and shut down all vehicle operations pretty much everywhere. This can be particularly difficult to deal with for aircraft, which, even with good mods, lack the eHP to survive more than a few forge gun shots. My viper is fit with nothing but advanced extenders and militia PDUs, and even with all that you could take it down with a single magazine. Hell, before the wipe I had a Myron with over 4k eHP, and it still couldn't survive more than a few hits. Though thankfully they've scaled by the impact, so now taking a hit doesn't flip you upside-down. But the point is, what is one supposed to do when aircraft might hopefully have some purpose other than joyriding? If one wants to use their Myron as a spawn point, or remote rep platform, they have to sacrifice a lot of survivability, and they'll be right back in "one shot death from a forge gun" territory.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.27 04:12:00 - [29] - Quote You have to know exactly what angle to clip a derpship to send it into a tailspin now. High angle high deflection, and WHOOPS! And militia forgeguns are balanced to kill Militia tanks and militia derpships in no more than four shots depending on relative skill and affecting modules. Don't ***** that you lost a militia vehicle to militia AV. it makes you look really dumb. This post was not directed at anyone in particular, but if you want to take offense please do so and I will be more than pleased to troll the everliving hell out of you.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.27 04:14:00 - [30] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: As a vehicle operator, I have no problem with the forge gun's damage. It might even be too low given how easily I dealt with that forge operator that took on my Sica last night. My issue is their range. This can allow a forge gunner to camp out a high point on the map and shut down all vehicle operations pretty much everywhere. This can be particularly difficult to deal with for aircraft, which, even with good mods, lack the eHP to survive more than a few forge gun shots. My viper is fit with nothing but advanced extenders and militia PDUs, and even with all that you could take it down with a single magazine. Hell, before the wipe I had a Myron with over 4k eHP, and it still couldn't survive more than a few hits. Though thankfully they've scaled by the impact, so now taking a hit doesn't flip you upside-down. But the point is, what is one supposed to do when aircraft might hopefully have some purpose other than joyriding? If one wants to use their Myron as a spawn point, or remote rep platform, they have to sacrifice a lot of survivability, and they'll be right back in "one shot death from a forge gun" territory. dropships need better defenses or they need easier controls. it's that simple. The derpships are kinda screwed up in every concievable way.



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